Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

kdhspyder

we've had damaged fenders, bumpers, and hail where we've had to disclose the extent of damage on an addendum..

LOL.. it's the opposite of the 'Market Price Adjustment' surcharge.

xkiddx13

Is that not what i said, what are you talking about.

snakeweasel

Actually Sears and Home Depot use different manufacturers for their tool lines. Secondly that doesn't mean that Sears doesn't own and back the Craftsman name.

snakeweasel

Sears owns craftsman they just farm out the manufacturing process to another company, its done all the time.

gogiboy

"In the very early fifties, Sears sold "Allstates" they were actually Henry J's if any of you are old enough to remember those!"

One summer between semesters of medical school my father worked on an assembly line in Willow Run (MI) building Kaiser Fraiser Henrys. As far as I know he never owned one, but isell will be happy to know that these days he drives a Honda Accord, despite living/driving under the long shadow of the Big (or not so Big) 3 in SE MI.

Gogiboy

xkiddx13

THAT IS good to know.. now can this forum get back on topic and quit talking tools... i'm sure there is a hardware site out there with a forum as well..

jeffyscott

...the buying/shopping public is very very very careful of other's ( the store's ) property. The typical auto demo normally lasts 5 min and rarely get's above 40 mph on city streets and for maybe a mile or two at best.

I drive differently when the salesman goes with on a test drive. I need to know how a car handles...but, I am not comfortable taking turns as fast as I would like when the salesman is in the car. Not because I think I am abusing the car, but just don't think he/she will be comfortable getting tossed around the car.

Do people really go out for just one 5 minute test drive and buy the vehicle?

xkiddx13

we have alot of ppl come in and buy without even a test drive...

xkiddx13

and if they do test drive it is less then five minutes and a trip around the block.. there are other exception of course.. but generally 5 mins sounds about average..

qbrozen

I believe it. I bought 3 cars without a test drive ... but that's only because I test drove them at a different dealer than where I purchased it.

xkiddx13

my last car i bought, i didnt test drive either, than again i bought it from the dealership i work at, all i did was look at it liked it said i want that one, and signed the paper work.. but to this day i love it still... 2002 Honda, Accord, EX-L V6, 2dr coupe..

snakeweasel

Every car I ever bought I test drove, maybe not at the dealer I finally bought it from but I test drove them. The last one I test driven lasted about 20 minutes where I put it through several tests, and even got it on the expressway.

jesses1

I hate having the salesman in the car with me. I don't abuse the car, it's just that when I test drive a car I have my wife with me and I don't want the salesman to be a party to our comments and thoughts about the vehicle.

xkiddx13

That is really understandable. though in defferent locations it is difficult to find a dealership that will let that happen. i live in california work at a dealership out here and with the chances of someone taking off with the car and taking it to mexico or even to a chop shop, we can't do that. though i know of a couple places that under certain circumstances will let you take it out on your own.

audia8q

I don't want the salesman to be a party to our comments and thoughts about the vehicle.

Why not? I don't agree or disagree with your preferences but I'm just curious. Assuming you find a decent salesperson who sits quietly in the car during the test drive....why wouldn't you want the salesperson to know your thoughts on the car??

farout

This has most likely been asked before,but...
How much in percentage is very fair to take off the sticker price to pay for a Jeep Liberty CRD? I know added items add the price up, but as a general rule whats a good percentage to knock off the price sticker?

grandtotal

why wouldn't you want the salesperson to know your thoughts on the car??

Well, that's a naïve question. If the salesperson knows that you cannot live another minute without owning a Kerbcrusher GTX Limited then any negotiating strength the buyer may have had just went out the window.

putter5

The smart way to test drive is to rent the car for a day,espically if you are zeroed in on the model and have a high potential that you will buy. Seems to me a ~ $ 50 investment for a day is well worth it for something that is going to cost you around $30K and be your constant companion for years.

kdhspyder

This is very good advice..

basscadet

I think it's great you knew what car you wanted before actually doing the test drive, but many buyers won't know what car they want before taking a test drive or two -- it's part of the decision process and perfectly reasonable.

If you're not in the market to buy a car within the next week, you are not entitled to a test drive. You are wasting the salesperson's time.

basscadet

bass...at Carmax, I'm assuming they sell just about every make and model of every sedan, wagon, SUV & truck on the market. How does a salesperson keep up with all of that information(engine size, features etc)? I've had some Toyota and Honda salesmen know less about their stocked vehicles than I do. You guys carry around little cheat sheets?

It's impossible to know everything about every car. I'm a car guy so I am lucky that I happen to know quite a bit (but not everything) about most cars. If I don't know the question the customer is asking me, I go inside with them and look it up on the Internet. They appreciate my honesty and would rather I tell them "I don't know" than make up some BS.

basscadet

I am certain there are knuckleheads that abuse the policy. But quite frankly, without that 5-day return policy, I'm not sure if I would have bought from Carmax or not.

bcb1 - I am glad that the policy worked for you. I agree that the policy works more often than not. I tell my customers right up front that I am a "non-aggressive" salesperson because there is no benefit to being aggressive if the customer can return the car in 5 days.

Out of the 100-110 cars I sold last year, only one was returned under the 5 day policy. I think that's a pretty good track record, if you ask me.

But I do think the policy is very liberal, and I understand what Isellhondas is talking about. Unfortunately, there *are* shady people who take advantage of the policy. It just seems to happen to my sales peers and not me.

basscadet

The smart way to test drive is to rent the car for a day,espically if you are zeroed in on the model and have a high potential that you will buy. Seems to me a ~ $ 50 investment for a day is well worth it for something that is going to cost you around $30K and be your constant companion for years.

Well this works great if you're looking to buy a Ford Taurus.

Do you know where I can rent a 2006 BMW M5? If you do, please let me know.

dino001

If you're not in the market to buy a car within the next week, you are not entitled to a test drive. You are wasting the salesperson's time.

???????????

Wow. Do I really want to respond to that one? One week is good to evaluate a toaster, perhaps a new mid-range TV set. These are also long-term commitments, but at least not as costly.

When I buy an item equivalent to a large chunk of my yearly salary, I expect to get a respect to my money. Part of that respect is acknowledgment that it takes some time and decent evaluation before I make this purchase. Moreover, there is some competition (both other brands and other stores) out there and it can take quite a bit more time evaluate the ones I like. Say there are just four preselected models two engine trims each. I have some idea, but I don't really know if I really want/have to have this six cylinder and can I live with an auto or not (likely not, but who knows). I can go on and on with my choices. Perhaps that's why me getting a high-volume run-the mills stuff is unlikely - they never fit my preferences.

One week is good when I just totaled my car and have to get one right away. Otherwise, try more like two months from the first "kicking tires but serious" visit and then you MIGHT get my business. :shades:

jeffyscott

If you're not in the market to buy a car within the next week, you are not entitled to a test drive. You are wasting the salesperson's time.

Well, no one is entitled to any test drive ever. But, what a ridiculous attitude! I'm supposed to wait until a few days before I want to buy, before I investigate cars I might be interested in? Sorry, but I don't buy new cars like I'm picking up a pair of pants. I also am not asking the salesperson to spend any significant time with me...that is their choice. They can hand me the keys and go do whatever else it is they have to do.

I have recently been test driving some cars and won't be buying for 6-18 months, barring unforseen events. I indicated this and that I'd like to do some preliminary test drives of cars I might be interested in...narrowing down the list. No dealership has suggested that I should not come in and test drive their car. I certainly don't demand a test drive...I just ask.

jeffyscott

I agree that the policy works more often than not. I tell my customers right up front that I am a "non-aggressive" salesperson because there is no benefit to being aggressive if the customer can return the car in 5 days.

That is a very interesting comment about the other side of this policy. Your interests are perhaps somewhat more aligned with the customer's than they would be in a normal vehicle purchase transaction. You still want them to pay as much as possible, but you also are more motivated to make sure that they get something they will be happy with and want to keep.

isellhondas

I agree.

What I really don't like are the people who tell me they are months away from buying. I mean, WHY drive a car now if they are really planning to wait that long? They will forget what the car was like.

These are usually (to use a kind term) "non serious" shoppers.

mazda6iguy

I still remember when I was a kid my dad returning a 1960's era Craftsman flat blade screwdriver and they gave in a brand new one right there no questions asked.

mazda6iguy

The attitude that some might have is something along the lines of "that's what the Auto Show is for".

isellhondas

I spent most of my life in the tool business and I never could return a tool I have abused. Most breakage is strictly from abuse.

snakeweasel

Do you know where I can rent a 2006 BMW M5? If you do, please let me know.

Right now I cannot say where, but there are plenty of places that rent luxury and exotic cars for a price. Do a web search you might be able to find a place. i know there is a place in Beverly Hills where you can rent a Bentley Continental GT so why not a M5?

landdriver

In the Bay Area there's a chain of hardware stores called OSH that sell Craftsman tools, the same ones Sears sells -- you can return them to either store for a replacement.

I renovate houses and a liberal return policy at a building materials supply store is a godsend -- frequently you'll purchase the wrong fitting or wrong compound, or too much tile -- I (and many other contractors) return lots of stuff to Home Depot, whereas I rarely return stuff to any other type of retail store.

racer63

What I really don't like are the people who tell me they are months away from buying. I mean, WHY drive a car now if they are really planning to wait that long? They will forget what the car was like.

These are usually (to use a kind term) "non serious" shoppers.

This kind of attitude makes my point. Right now I am a serious shopper that doesn't know what I want, but am certainly educated enough on all the various makes and models that have piqued my interest, some new, some used, that are on a very defined list of what I want to check out.

I am not going to Wal-Mart to buy a toaster or coffeemaker. I realize that, same as most of the the car buying public is fixated on what the monthly payment is, they also look more on a car as an appliance.

Those of us that are more enthusiastic about cars are a little more sensitive to the various nuances of a particular model. Some nutcases, like me, who has autocrossed for 20 years, can even feel a 2 psi change in air pressure made between runs. So to offer up an exmaple, I traveled extensively for work in 2003 for a period of 6 months. The company rental deal was through Avis, with the standard being a "full-size" car, which entitled me to a GM intermediate. I spent seat time in Centurys, Regals, Impalas, Grand Prixs, and even a token Sable LS Premium from Hertz when Avis was sold out one time. I can still tell you differences in suspension tuning bewteen them, all cars built off the same chassis. Even quirky things like in Impalas, the door armrest and bench seat fold-down center one are way different in height. The difference in power between a 3.4 and a 3.8, etc.

The car I daily drive now took me three months to settle in on and spend $17k. That was 6 years ago. This time I may spend twice as much, so why shouldn't it take me twice as long?

backy

I will frequently test drive a car a year or more before I plan to buy one. Why? Because I want to waste the dealer's time? No. Because I have very little free time when dealerships are open (they aren't open on Sundays in my state for instance, and on Fridays and Saturdays only until 6 pm). So I will test drive any car that I may have an interest in (assuming I haven't already eliminated it through research), in order to move it to the "possible" side of my shopping list or "forget it" side of the list. Then when I am close to buying a car, I'll narrow down the list to a handful (maybe only a couple) and take those on a much longer test drive.

One thing I will not do is truly waste a salesperson's time by test driving a car that I have absolutely no interest in buying/leasing.

I also find driving rentals to be very helpful, as it shows me what the car might be like after some hard use. But as has been mentioned, many cars are not readily available as rentals, including mainstream cars like Civics.

ustazzaf

I have purchased many vehicles (30+) and I have seen it all. I went with a buddy who went back 5 times before they offered him an even better offer than he wanted. I had written a program on my old Tandy computer that figured out payments based on length of the loan vs intrest rate. I told him what he needed to hold out for and I had the printouts in my hand. He was dealing on a Dodge Ramcharger. He stated that he had to have payments below $300 and the vehicle price should have came out to 4 years according to the cash price. The best they could do was 5 years at $309. We went home and waited 2 weeks for a call back. We went back and were offered a little better deal, but not to our approval. Long story short, the last time we went in, he walked out with a payment of $289 for 3 years. Way better than expected. That is a difference of 10404 vs 18540. He went in serious about buying, but was willing to wait. Well worth the effort. I go in like I am ready to buy, because if I go in, I am ready. However, I have walked out with no problem. Many times I have walked out, but a few times I have bought. It is all about the service. Last week a dealer handed me the keys and told me to look him up when we got back. You can take that as "I don't care" or "I don't want to pressure you". I take it as a no pressure situation which will lead to future business.

bolivar

Well, I usually spend months before buying a car.

I looked at a totally new model vehicle and drove it just after it appeared. I started tracking comments about it here on Edmunds. And other places.

I was already a 3-vehicle family, with the cat very ill and elderly and seldom driving any more. So, the wife's Cadillac and my beloved Ranger were consigned to a dealer friend, one at a time, across last summer and fall. He sold both of them, even after his commission for much more than I would have been able to sell them.

Then, with the second check in the bank and it's title signed over, the new model vehicle no longer priced at MSRP with the dealer kicking in some money and a $1,000 manufactor rebate, the price was about $1,400 below invoice 10 months later. Plus the manufactor had made running corrections to leaky A pillors and strange automatic door lock/unlock logic. The wife and I then looked closely to see if what we wanted was the middle or top version. When we decided, we test drove one with a very recent build date and bought it, in December.

I really don't think we were wasting the salesmans time in the first drive back in February 2005.

P.S. The cat is still hanging in there, but we no longer allow her to drive.

P.P.S. I fully expect when I die, my wife will gather up whatever vehicles we own at that time, call her friendly Cadillac dealer up, and trade them in on a new one, whatever is very expensive, either Pearl Red or Diamond White, and can be prepped and gotten to her in time to drive to my funeral....

rroyce10

.... **I spent seat time in Centurys, Regals, Impalas ..... **

That "is' the best way to find out which vehicle you really like ..... let's be honest, most folks read all of the "editors reviews" and then ask a few people and then they let someone make up their mind for them ... they maybe get 5/10 minutes in a vehicle on a demo ride and 80% of that is spent on the buzz factor, so most of the decision is based on what the potential buyer might have thought before ..

Think about it .. how many folks come into Edmunds and ask other posters what they think are the best buy or the best vehicle is, maybe 5,000/10,000 a day.? a week.? .. I dunno, pick a figure - but a bunch ....

The funny part is .. we don't know if they're tall or short, 105lbs or 265lbs, we don't know if they have a 32inch inseam and a 36 inch waist or a 36inch inseam and a 32inch waist, we usually don't know if they drive 5,000 miles a year or 15,000 .. but this is usually the equation that will make the buyer happy - or not ..l.o.l... that's why it's so darn important to drive the vehicles, and the best way is to rent 2 or 3 over a short period of time, especially on the weekends .. this way you can concentrate on the characteristics with some real miles ....

I've posted this before .. but the auto business is a direct reflection of the golf business, a mirror image (or vise versa) .. folks read all of the new golf mags, then read what the "editors" have to say (even though the editor has a 5 handicap and the reader has a 20 handicap) .. and the next thing you know, the reader is buying that new club for $350 without even trying it out .. ever stop and think there is alot of bias in those golf reviews.? ~~~ same with the car business ............



Terry

robr2

In the Bay Area there's a chain of hardware stores called OSH that sell Craftsman tools, the same ones Sears sells -- you can return them to either store for a replacement.

That's because OSH is owned by Sears. That's why you find Lands End clothing in Sears - Sears owns them.

snakeweasel

The best they could do was 5 years at $309. We went home and waited 2 weeks for a call back. We went back and were offered a little better deal, but not to our approval. Long story short, the last time we went in, he walked out with a payment of $289 for 3 years.

Something is not right here. Supposing the 309 for 5 years was at 6% interest the loan value would be $15,983.20. a 3 year loan at 0% would have been $10,404 or almost 35% less. So for that to be true they had do come down on the price an awful lot, or he put a larger down payment on it. If you would have said 289 for 5 years I would believe you, but not for 2 years less.

jeffyscott

The attitude that some might have is something along the lines of "that's what the Auto Show is for".

I don't like leather. Dealer's show mostly leather equipped cars at the show. Therefore, even test sitting in the cars at the auto show is not very useful to me.

If they had a show with the base models it might be worthwhile to me...but the show (understandably) caters to the more typical buyer, who wants a car that is loaded up with options. There is the same problem in the dealer show room..they have the loaded up and leather versions in there...so I can't even just sneak in to sit in the showroom car.

As someone else here indicated I would only test drive cars that I have not eliminated by other research. For instance I (mostly) eliminate anything that did not get "good" rating from IIHS on front and side crash tests. I also am only interested in lower priced mid-size models...I'm not going on a test drive of a BMW just for fun of it or anything like that.

I think the real problem is the outdated (for me, at least) business model of most car dealerships. I don't need a "salesman" I know more than they do about most of the cars I am interested in. The things I don't know, they don't know either. They are all nice enough (not like 20 years ago when you got "what do I have to do to sell you a car today"). But, I really struggle to see how they are adding anything of value to me to the transaction.

british_rover

At the level, like you said you aren't buying highend cars, that you are buying vehicles they probably are not at least for you since you know so much.

Thats what the internet sales department is for. Narrow your choices down to a handfuly then get quotes for all of them. Only takes a handful of minutes with the internet and then set up appointments to test drive the cars.

audia8q

Terry brings up some great points. One factor that consumers never consider.....many folks walk in loaded with 6 months of research on a red automatic Camry convinced this is the car for them... 3 hours later they are driving out in a blue manual VW. We see it everyday.

jeffyscott

Yes, I do try to make the first contact using email as I want to deal with the "internet person" (this is another peculiar concept...you get a lower price if you contact person X instead of person y at the dealership). But it makes no sense to get price quotes at this time, so I just indicate that I'd like to see the car and possibly test drive it.

I got very nice response to emails from a Ford dealer and a Subaru dealer...even though I said I am just in early preliminary stage of shopping.

No response from Honda or Mercury dealer...so in those cases I just showed up at the dealership. I did go to those at a fairly slow time, around 11 am on a Friday.

Ford sales person was very nice to me, even though I came in on a Saturday...because I happened to be dropping my kid off at school and it was convenient for me to do so. Assuming no big pricing differences, she is the person I will buy from if I get the Ford (which is my first choice, so far).

backy

I'd say those buyers weren't all that "convinced" and clear about their car preference when they walked into the dealership. A Camry slushbox is a much different car than a VW stick.

british_rover

Funny story I had a guy that first came in looking at a LR3 and didn't want to spend more then 46k or so for it.

We didn't have any range rover sports at the time and we kind of went back and forth on pricing and options on the LR3 to the point that he decided he needed more time to think about it. Basicly he wasn't happy with how much discount we were giving him. He came in a couple weeks later after we got our first sports in and decided right then that was the car for him and MSRP was fine. Totally different driving vehicle, about as different as two vehicles that share a platform can be, and almost 20k more expensive.

audia8q

Backy...the type of car was just an example but the process is very common. all the homework and reaserch in the world often goes out the window with a test drive or seeing another car that the buyer just didn't think about.

isellhondas

People drive out in something TOTALLY different than what they started out to buy!

rroyce10

....**People drive out in something TOTALLY different than what they started out to buy!** ...

Good point Isell ................

It happens every second of every minute of everyday ..... and that 6 months of research.?

Well ....... it's goes in the circular file when they drive home in that "something else" ....

Terry.

basscadet

One week is good when I just totaled my car and have to get one right away. Otherwise, try more like two months from the first "kicking tires but serious" visit and then you MIGHT get my business.

Dino I understand your point. Cars are the second most expensive thing most people buy.

But you have to understand something...car dealers sell cars every day. You and your money are not special. It is much more worth my time to just find another customer (if available) rather than mess around with test driving with you in a car that you are not going to be purchasing in the immediate future. I will risk losing your business over this decision. When I test drive customers who say they are going to be buying "in a month or so", I have never, EVER seen that customer come back and buy a car from me.

You have the right to drive a vehicle before purchasing it to allow you to pick the right car for you. That is a process smart consumers follow. But if you have more than 2,3 cars to test drive, you haven't done your homework. And it certainly does not take more than a few days to decide which among a handful of cars is the best one for you.

basscadet

This kind of attitude makes my point. Right now I am a serious shopper that doesn't know what I want, but am certainly educated enough on all the various makes and models that have piqued my interest, some new, some used, that are on a very defined list of what I want to check out.

Like I said earlier, if you are a car freak like I am (and it sounds like it), it is extremely important to find the car that "feels" most right for you. Do all the Internet research first. The few cars that make it past that battery of tests are test drive worthy. The one that you like the best you should buy...and there is no reason to put off buying it further at that point. Take a day or two to think about it, then buy it.

If you spend 5 hours reading about a car and 10 minutes driving it, you've already done much, much more research into a car than the average car buyer does.