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Comments
I will have you all know that I am a High School Graduate passing with average grades....
and own a business and have never written a business plan, nor taken any courses in accounting, marketing, or economics, have not taken any loans out and started broke......and somehow am successful.......as I would guess all of you are too........(yes bad grammar)...
and we all love cars......and I agree with everyone.....just nice to have some converstation once in a while....
as we say in Hawaii ALOHA!
About a month ago I felt a slight vibration on the steering wheel of my 2003 IS300, when the car reaches beyond 60 MPH. Since the car is pretty much brand new (2174 odm reading), I took it back to the dealer for a check up.
A couple of hours after dropping it off at the dealers, they told me that they got into an accident with my car. Being that the car is pretty much like new, am I entitled to any rights?
They didn't even apologize, treated it as if this sort of thing happends everyday, never return my calls and took them a month to fix it up.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
unless they want to pay for the fixing and the "loss of value" difference ( the value of the car BEFORE the accident) then get them to get you another car.......
of course the "x" factor here is how much damage was done to your car 1,000.00 , 5000.00, 10,000.00
?
The only thing I'd add is that you may need an attorney if you're not really good at negotiation.
Forget all that attorney stuff (for right now, Rivertown will have you going sideways in no time) .. get the camera out, take as many quality pics as you can, get a statement from the actual driver and any witness, get a copy of the police report and who their Ins co. is .. then have a calm, quiet "come to Jesus" meeting with the Service Mgr and the GM of the store ..
Now, since we don't know how much damage was done and who is going to be doing the work (and the quality of that work) .. you need and their Ins co. needs, to come to a figure of an "adjusted market value" due to the damage .. and that unfortunaltly, won't be really known until the work is actually done, just make sure it's done by a "certified Lexus body shop" .. at least this should get you started ..
I hope this helps ....
Terry.
As I see it, the prob is figuring out how to compensate you for that brand spanking new car feeling that get dented along with the fender. That's worth something (LOL, folks pay a wad of cash for that, in the form of drive-it-off-the-lot depreciation), but it's intangable and hard to estimate.
thanks to the owners that added their comments about why it is not very apparent to the buyer that dealerships can go under.
landru...good one. But I stand by my statement. Do you guys really sit in training and learn 16.7 million ways to say the same thing?
Like I said, maybe I am being naive, so be it, but the way I was brought up by my parents and in school was the truth is the truth and a lie is a lie. I understand what you are saying, and unfortunately that is the world we live in today. There are many shades of the truth, on both sides of the aisle. Let me see...Hitler was evil because he sent a lot of Jews to their death on his orders, but the guy running Auschwitz only killed a percentage of those so he isn't as bad. Not.
I still stand by my statement that it would be very hard or impossible for the average American to go start a car dealership or any business that required several million in start up cash. I think it would be very hard to determine this exactly on this board because it would require the dealer principles that are willing to participate, to provide very personal information like financial data and income and worth estimates. I am sure they would provide some general helpful info, but not enough for the lay people to make an informed decision. Maybe someone in lending or banking can shed some light on how much net worth and assets are required to borrow say 3 million dollars.
Maybe I am being dumb here but basing my reasoning on loans for cars and homes (that I have obtained), it stands to reason that to walk into a lender and say I need a few mil for a car dealership, you would have to show substantial assets and worth. A few mil for a home loan would require far more assets and worth than I will probably ever own. If this assumption is true, than the number of people that can actually go to a lender and get a few mil for a car dealership would not IMHO be the majority of Americans.
"There are many shades of the truth, on both sides of the aisle." (16.7 million shades?)
So which do you believe? I'm pretty sure you can't have it both ways. Or can you?
Then, there's mistake - sort of an inadvertent lie, a misspeaking.
Then, there's hooey - Truth and/or lie told, usually both in combination, simply to make or support a point or impression. Hooey's about the point/impression; hooey has nothing, really, to do with what's so, with truth or lie.
The elements of hooey (truths and lies) are usually of little importance; what really matters is the validity or falsehood of the point or impression. When hooey is used to make or support a point or impression, that impression or point is false more often than not. LOL, else why use hooey to make or support it?
I'm trying to find a particular model, trim, and color of car. After hours of internet searching, I haven't found one exactly like what I want. (I take that back--there was one about a nine-hour drive away, but when I called, they had just sold it.)
I know my local dealer will search the country and try to find me one, but how exactly does that work? Does the local dealer have to pay the remote dealer for the car, or do they try to trade straight up, more or less? Do I have to have signed a contract to buy the car before they will arrange a trade? And how does the local dealer figure pricing on a car it didn't order in the first place? Price-wise (not service-wise, obviously), would a buyer be better off tracking the car down and buying it from the dealer who's got it on the lot?
Thanks for any help you can give on these naive buyer questions.
If we are getting it from across town, we will try to trade with the other dealer, car for car. If we do this, then we will not incur any extra costs and the car will cost us no more money than if we had got it from the factory. Holdback stays with the dealer that originally ordered from the factory so they keep the holdback on the one they send us and we keep the holdback on the one we sent them.
If we are getting it from hundreds of miles away, we would just purchase it. It would not make sense to trade because the other dealer doesn't want a car with hundreds of miles on it and we don't want to incur the shipping cost to send them a trade. Standard procedure with my brand (Ford) is to pay the other dealer $100 over invoice. In this case, the original dealer keeps the holdback. So we are into the car for $100 over invoice plus whatever it costs to bring it in.
The second type of long distance purchase will never happen without a signed purchase agreement and a substantial deposit, the first type may.
If the car is undamaged and virtually new, why would there be no warranty?
mfrs. WILL NOT honor factory warranty work on
a Canadian car brought into the USA for resale.
If you have Carfax or others check the VIN# to
see where it came from new.............
In reality, my brain knows that the second quote is closer to the real world. Since I must function in the real world, I must admit that it exists and adjust my judgements accordingly. I would be stupid if I did not engage in "hooey" when it is being spewed all around me.
Have you ever seen the movie Liar Liar? Thats a good example of what I am talking about. The usual "hooey" gets replaced with the real truth. It would be kinda cool if we all had a truth meter. Might make for some great stories on here.
If you need more room, maybe a Sequoia, Pilot, or MDX are the thing for you.
Why would someone who knew enough about vehicles to really help want to work "only on weekends"?
In my experence, people really don't care to be handed off to yet another person. Already there is F & I and that even bothers some folks.
I worked at a store where we had a greeter (cute young lady who took info from you and pointed you to a salesman, not the lot), a rookie salesman, a senior salesman, a closer (asst sales manager), the sales manager, if necessary (if you were being bad and weren't "laying down" for the deal, the aftermarket person (this was Texas, had to sell you alarm, window tint, pinstripes and those cool chrome fender trim pieces, and oh, yeah, a woodgrain dash), then you went to F&I.
In F&I, you laid down because you just wanted to get your new/newer car and leave.
Don't forget persons #7 and 8 - the parts manager and service manager, just to make sure you meet everyone in the dealership. You'll meet the lot boy when he brings your car from detail.....that's #9.
"Let me tall you, ma'am, out cost on those horns is 550 dollars. But I tell ya what I'm gonna do. I'll give it to you, at cost, and I'll even throw in this handy-dandy pine tree scented auto deodorizor. Now labor on them there horns is gonna be..."
Sorry, not making fun of Texas just saw a chance to poke some fun at all of those people who give car dealers bad names.
Heck, I wouldn't mind working part time to hang around new cars all day (sometimes I do it for free).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Heck I barely needed more than a pulse to get licenced to sell securities (investments).
how many units does say a mid sized dealership move in an average month.....not answers like...
"well that number can vary from dealership to dealership and month to month"
average # 20, 50, 100, 1000 ??
A mid sized Honda store might do 95/125 vehicles a month, new and used .. a good sized Ford store might do 180/220, same for Chevy and Chrysler .. a mid sized Yota store should see 150ish a month. Some of the big big stores see 280/320++ units a month .. Some of the biggest, see 400/500+ a month ..
Terry.
Terry.
My question is this: Can a buyer assume that if a vehicle has a rebate or really low financing that they can buy it at or very near invoice? I am asking this because in the current market almost all domestics and a large amount of imports have some type of rebate or low financing. I know the manufacturers are using these techniques to help move cars.
My assumption as a buyer would be that the dealer wants to see cars sold in the following order (from a demand standpoint):
1) Hot seller, sells at MSRP---Honda Ody
2) Been around but still in demand--Lexus RX300
3) Bread and butter, a little over invoice--Accord, Camry
4) Slow seller, a little over invoice or at invoice as long as there is a rebate--Taurus
5) Can't give them away, at invoice with large rebate..Aztek
If the answer to my question is yes, it looks like a lot of today's cars are in category 4 or 5. My reasoning, as the buyer, would be that if the car were a good seller, that there would be no incentive or rebate. The most logical order of selling for the most profit would be a) over invoice by $xxx (good seller), b) at invoice, no rebate (slow seller) c) at invoice with rebate (no seller). It would be hard for me to swallow having a dealer tell me that I should pay $xxx over invoice if the car has a $1,000 rebate. I would assume that they had already been trying to sell it at invoice with no rebate and that it still had not sold well enough so the manufacturer decided to kick in the rebate too.
Look under market report section. Shows
all mfrs. breakdowns for all model sales,
year to date etc................geo
Straight shooting salesguys seem to be as bent about the shady rep attached to the biz as consumers are, and yet there's a sense that everyone accepts the idea "that's just the way it is".
Most other businesses with a heavy sales emphasis (insurance, real estate, financial products) have a licensing process with at least a few teeth which limits the worst abuses. Folks in these businesses run the risk of delicensure and civil suit if they get too shady.
Given the room for fast and loose play, there really shouldn't be any surprise that the play is fast and loose. It seems to me that bartenders and barbers face worse consequences for misconduct than do carsalesguys - and generally have a better rep; their licensure processes also have more beef.
What you have to realize is that a vehicle that sits around the lot begins to cost the dealership more than the "invoice", especially after the holdback is used up after three months. You see, they've paid for the vehicle already (when it was ordered) and they pay interest to the flooring company each month as well as general overhead expenses.
You can look at it like this: If you have a business where you own something and paid x for it and then pay y for keeping it you are still going to want to sell it for x+ in order to make a profit.
That whole post is why some CONSUMERS get a bad wrap. Instead of looking at it as "getting the best deal" you are looking at it as "how can I make sure the dealer gets no profit". Doesn't make sense.
For folks in the biz to complain about the results of doing biz how biz is done looks pretty irresponsible to me.
: )
Mackabee
TIA
Carl
No big deal, it just couldn't push snow anymore and dug a rut - the neighbors jumped in and we rocked it 'til it broke loose.
Other than that, the TCS and ABS are great in the snow - I miss my Mustang, but it wouldn't have made it out of the driveway, much less to the store!
One thing fun about snow - I taught the young man how to do j-turns and 4 wheel drifts - he had a blast!
i was not trying to pose my analysis from a make sure the dealer gets no profit angle
I was trying to explain my reasoning in light of my question. Your post kinda backed me up. The longer the car sits (slow seller) the more it costs the dealer.
I as the buyer need to have a realistic price expectation to go shopping. Edmunds TMV is a joke and I have no idea were they get their numbers. To get "the best deal" as you say, I need to try to get a handle on a market every 4 to 7 years that the sales pros deal with everyday.
The dealer needs to worry about his own profit (which I am sure he does nicely without my help), I need to worry about paying the least amount I can for the car that meets my needs. It just makes sense to me that if the average blahmobile was selling for $500 to $1000 over invoice and the manufacturer knew that, that there would not be a $1500 rebate. Rebates are given to move slow selling product, not to move good selling product. And there is a big difference between a rebate and a factory to dealer incentive. You are correct that the rebate does not factor into to dealer profit, but the factory to dealer incentive does. If it is hidden well and the buyer does not know about it and the dealer does not voluntarily pass it on in his pricing, that is pure profit to the dealer. So they could sell a car at dead invoice and still get a check for $1,000 to $2,000 from the manufacturer. Thats why I gave the progression down of what I see as the ideal to least desirable demand options for a particular car.
What you said makes perfect sense. Retailer buys an item at a certain price. The longer it sits on the lot or the shelf, the more it costs the retailer. Said retailer will slash the price progressively to minimize profit loss if the item is not selling well. Finally getting to the bottom price that they will make a little profit or break even.
While I am not taking the attitude that retailers should make no profit, I as the consumer am trying to buy at the lowest price. Thats in my best interests.
Truth to tell, when I've sought out straight shooters, they'd moved on.
As far as comfort is concerned, I stay pretty comfortable with most people, including salesguys, most the time. The flim-flam tries my patience sometimes, so I net shop as much as I can and, as you so rightly suggest, try to be educated and to use the flim-flam to my own advantage. LOL, getting caught in flim-flam a couple of times seems to set the salesguy back on his heels a bit. I'm not rude about that at all; but it does seem to drop the friendliness level, which is no real skin off my nose.
I suspect the traditions hurt the biz more in the long run than anyone else. "What goes around, comes around." And, it seems to me that businesses with such traditions clean up themselves up eventually.
The Suburban is always a hot seller, especially if you look at a 4x4 1500 or 2500 with leather - they still have good rebates, in fact, last year their rebate went from $2002 to $3002. Strange.
Even Corvettes had a rebate.
The dealers certainly can take care of themselves, but the consumer needs to do more research on commitment than on all the facets of a deal.
It doesn't matter what the dealer will do unless you're ready to buy. If you wait 2-3 weeks or a month, there's a good chance that the rebate program may have been replaced with a financial benefit program.
If you're financing on your own (bank, CU, AAA, USAA), then changes like that could effect you tremendously.
Figure out the cost factor (whether new/used), rough value of your trade and ask your neighbor where they bought their car from and who gave them good experiences. The rest is just going in and taking care of business.
LOL, it's perfectly understandable for a bizguy to oppose that idea - 'twould cut into his profit.
To accuse consumers of being opposed to the 'profit motive' while concealing the facts about profit makes no sense at all.
The profits that car dealerships make are plowed back into the community and are used to pay for goods and services.
Then there are those who agree that a car dealership has every right to make a decent profit on the cars they sell as long as they aren't the ones paying that profit.
And I wonder if they owned and operated their own business what, exactly they would consider to be a "fair" profit?
Just rambling...
is the discount enough? (my side) is there enought profit (your side)? there is figure that You the seller will settle for and there is a figure that I the buyer will settle for..the hard part is getting those two number to match....
and all of us sales types know that a sale is better than NO SALE!
So it's the sellers choice(along with is sale manager/boss) Do we take the $$ or do we let it WALK>>>>>
Sometimes I let it walk, sometimes I take the beating but increase cash flow...and the gross and hopefully increase the net even if it's just a little bit..........
So what is fair? what everyone can live with
IMO
some dealerships/saleperson offer a referal fee payment to a customer who sends in people and they buy a car from your specific salesperson.
If you do send someone in be sure that they see your sales person, you inform the sale person that you have refered them and when they buy you will get a check from the dealership......
Not All places offer this, but I have sent a couple of people into buy cars from my rep. and He has sent me some $$
check with your rep about this
Some sales aren't worth it though. If I think one of my customers is going to leave unhappy I would much rather not make the sale.
I continue to be amazed though at the people whose big thing is how much profit a store is making rather than concentrating on the overall value to them.
Life is short...
In the carbiz, finding out what the 'real' limits on negotiating room are is very difficult and yet price is arrived at by negotiation. 'Profit' is given as a reason for limiting negotiation room, yet a WHOLE lot is done to conceal the profit in a car deal. To argue 'profit' on the one hand while concealing it on the other isn't honest dealing.
I think these two things are related. 'Profit' in a department/grocery/drug/appliance/computer/etc store has nothing to do with negotiating room.