Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.

delaparadelapara Member Posts: 1
edited March 2014 in Ford
Here's a variation of the "Bait and Switch" I
experienced in trying to buy a new car from a Ford
Dealership, Board Ford in Whittier California:

After a test drive of a 2001 Focus Wagon, we sat
down to discuss a price. Since I wanted the wagon
with the “comfort package”, anti-lock brakes, and
side air bags it was indicated that the car would
be hard to find, but that I could order the exact
car I wanted. The price I was quoted was “$100
over invoice”. I asked the salesman if he could
write down the price details for me, but he
indicated that since it was the weekend he did not
have access to these numbers. I asked if there
would be any other costs added other than the
destination charge and tax and license. I was
assured there would not be any other costs added to
the price. I went away and then sent an e-mail to
the salesman, listing the invoice price plus the
invoice prices of the options I wanted, plus the
destination charge (I got this information
edmunds.com), added $100, and asked for a
confirmation of this price. The salesman responded
it would be a little bit more, adding an adverting
fee, gasoline fee and some other miscellaneous
fees. This added about $75, but I was not going to
quibble about this and responded I would be in to
order the car and submit a deposit. When I showed
up to order the car, the order form indicated a car
equipped with a five-speed stick instead of an
automatic transmission. I said I wanted an
automatic transmission and I had not mentioned this
before because in the Focus Brochure it indicated
that the automatic transmission was standard
equipment. I was told that the automatic
transmission was an option and would add $725 to
the price. The sales manager indicated that this
was a change that took place after the brochure was
printed. They insisted that the automatic
transmission was not standard equipment, this is in
spite of the fact that:

· The Focus Brochure indicates the automatic
transmission is Standard Equipment,
· The window sticker on the Focus Wagon I drove at
indicates the automatic transmission is Standard
Equipment,
· The Ford Motor Company Internet site at
"www.ford.com" indicates the automatic transmission
is Standard Equipment.

As far as I am concerned, a Ford Dealership and
all its employees are representatives of the Ford
Motor Company. If, in fact, the automatic
transmission is an option, this indicates that
there is false advertising on the part of the
dealership and the Ford Motor Company. If the
automatic transmission is standard equipment, then
it indicates an out and out lie on the part of the
dealership.
RAP
«13456781

Comments

  • sp01sp01 Member Posts: 81
    that they can "reasonably" charge you for an automatic. You certainly were not seeing things on that website. That tranny is clearly listed as "standard."

    They do have that standard disclaimer that states the "information contained herein subject to change without notice..."; all manufacturers use the same language. This is usually meant to cover availability of colors and minor optional equipment and such, NOT a major standard feature!

    Unfortunately, other than reporting them to the BBB and taking your business elsewhere, I doubt if you have immediate recourse. In the absence of a signed order form with pricing filled in, there's no way to enforce the "deal." Even with paper, the same kind of disclaimer exists to protect the dealership from cost increases imposed by the manufacturer during the period prior to delivery.

    You will probably find the Ford Motor Company absolutely NO help in this matter, but you could try to get a representative involved.

    Take your business to someone else who really deserves it!

    Best,
    Mark
  • floridianfloridian Member Posts: 219
    delapara: I have a friend that works for Ford. As he tells it the 2000 Focus wagon DID NOT offer a manual tranny, A/T ONLY.

    After many people (true car nuts) "demanded" a stick in the wagon they gave in and made the stick "standard" and the A/T optional on the 2001 models. Looks to me like the sales rep, typically, did not know what the heck he was doing when he filled out your order. I know the results are the same as far as you are concerned but it probably was not a deliberate effort on his part to "low ball" you on the price. Just the typical "crapola" that one encounters from most dealers today. This is not confined just to car dealers tho as most places you go anymore to buy something do not have a clue as to what they are doing.

    Floridian
  • ptmccainptmccain Member Posts: 86
    One of the best places to learn all about dealer tricks and deceptive tactics.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    ptmccain has spammed these forums with the same message ad nauseum...wonder who he works for?

    And this www.carbuyingtips.com is nothing new. Just one of the MANY redundant web sites that offer "expert" advise....yawn....
  • ptmccainptmccain Member Posts: 86
    Folks shopping for a new car can really help themselves out by using this site and others to obtain the best information possible in order to negotiate the lowest price you possible can.

    The car salespeople who inhabit this board seem to resent it when someone points out points of useful informatoin, like carbuyingtips.com.

    My expeience after doing my homework, very seriously, here and elsewhere, was that I was able to obtain a new vehicle below invoice.

    I negotiated that price based on a factory order.

    Patient, knowledge and assertive peristence really paid off for me and has for many others.

    Don't be put off by the silly attitude you get here from some salespeople. Naturally, they are defensive of their industry. While personally they may be wonderful guys, the sad reality is that the process of buying a new car is ranked as the number two most bothersome and troubling consumer experiences!

    Good luck and good hunting.
  • hingramhingram Member Posts: 24
    My wife's aunt just bought a 2000 Taurus and got nailed. They agreed on the price but the car needed to be "prepped" overnight. When she arrived to pick up the car, the price had been changed (ie fees added). She took the car anyway.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    The dealer who pulls a fast one at any point should be slammed hard but on the other hand why in the world would your aunt even consider taking the car? If she got home and found out things were different 'cause the finance person slipped one by her its one thing, but to be aware of the price bump and still take the car is totally outlandish to me....Why reward the dealer for a sleazy tactic? As far as I'm concerned this action does nothing more than say loud and clear...."take a sleazy shot at every customer, it's ok and some will fall for it."
    There is no excuse for it.
  • blackcurrantblackcurrant Member Posts: 152
    If i can get away with it...it's worth a shot...
  • wilcoxwilcox Member Posts: 584
    You know that there is always two sides to the story.

    Auntie may have "Assumed".... She might have forgotten about sales tax or title transfer fees. Perhaps she failed to pay attention.

    As you say, "still take car...totally outlandish.." - I agree. It must not have been off more than $25 I bet. But, I would be hard pressed to walk for $25 bucks (after probably investing hours on the purchase).

    I'd like to have more facts. hingram's story is lacking these...it sounds fishy.
  • ptmccainptmccain Member Posts: 86
    A classic dealer rip-off trick, not surprising. This happens all the time out there, sorry salesguys here, but it is true, no matter how much you want to try to explain it away.

    Knolwedge is power. It is too bad your aunt didn't have the resource of Edmunds or Consumers' Report or www.carbuyingtips.com.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    I agree there must be more....a small explainable amout I can understand. I might not like it, but if the story adds up I can live with it. But if they tried to slip in a big phoney fee, after I agreed to the numbers then I'm out.
  • wilcoxwilcox Member Posts: 584
    Toyota fished me about 2 months ago. They advertised (on TV) $1,000 cash back on Tacomas. I even called em up and asked them directly, "Do you give $1,000 cash back on 2000 Tacomas?". "Yes", they replied.

    When I got up there and found a nice PreRunner...just the color the wife liked, etc...
    When we got into negotations, we were far off. When I brought up the $1,000 cash off on Tacomas...their response was: "That dosen't apply to PreRunners".

    I was out of there quicker than a cat could lick it's butt...

    Ford got my money and Toyota did me a favor - I scored a better truck and it cost less. The Ford delearship is on Thornton Road in Atlanta/Lithia Springs. Pretty good place IMO.
  • millerro3millerro3 Member Posts: 136
    Sounds like you did the right thing there. Some salespeople will tell you anything on the phone to get you to come down, and then when you arrive it is like you never even spoke before. I say good for you that you didn't reward their tactic for getting you in there. BTW, are Prerunners and Tacomas the same thing?
    Rob
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    Two sides to every story...who really knows what happened. People like Mcccain will be quick to assume the terrible dealer tried to cheat the customer and will (over and over and over) post links to "expert" sites.

    But, I also agree. Pull a fast one on me and I'm out of there!

    The problem is, some sleazy dealers pull these tricks knowing that in many cases, the weary customer will simply cave in and go along.

    so..they get REWARDED for being dishonest!

    An example...in my neck of the woods we have a lot of competing Honda dealers along with a lot of well educated internet savvy shoppers who delight in pitting ne dealer against the other.

    That's fine and dandy except it sets them up big time for a lowball. some salespeople delight in messing with a price shopper like that.

    So, the weary shopper makes phone call after phone call, and finally finds the "lowest" price.

    They drive 30 miles to pick up their new Civic.

    " Didn't you want a 5 speed?...I thought that's what you asked me for....sorry, automatics cost more" BINGO!

    Now, many customers will simply know they were snookered and storm out. Sadly, many others, totally tired of the process will cave in and end up buying the automatic.

    I have to deal with this every day. This is why we will not quote prices over the phone!
  • navy4navy4 Member Posts: 44
    A Toyota Prerunner is a two-wheel drive Tacoma that looks like a four-wheel drive. It has the big wheel and tires and is a much better looking truch than the normal two-wheel drive Taco.

    Both are good trucks, but the normal 2WD probably wasn't selling as fast as Toyota wanted, hence the $1000 cash back. The add probably had a disclaimer in small print that you can't read on TV. And, yes, as a salesman my number one goal from a phone inquiry of any type, get the customer to come down to the store...
  • millerro3millerro3 Member Posts: 136
    I totally agree with you that my job on the phone is to get that person to come in. However, I disagree with saying anything just to get them to come in. In this case, I believe wilcox was mislead about the rebate just to get him to come in, where they have a much better shot at selling a car. Thank you for clarifying the Prerunner/Tacoma issue.
    Rob
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,783
    We bought a Honda over the phone in 1997, and it worked fine. We told them the kind of car we wanted and offered an out-the-door price of $17400. They accepted, so we went to the dealer, took the car for a test drive, liked it, gave them a check for $17400, and drove the car home. There was no hassle at all.

    I think we got a pretty fair deal, because our offers of $17300 and $17350 had been refused at two other nearby dealers.

    Three years later, we still love the car.
  • jelliotjelliot Member Posts: 8
    On the phone, did you specify that you wanted to know whether the rebate applied to Prerunners specifically, or just the generic Tacoma?

    In some stores, managers listen in to the "phone pops" to make sure they're being handled properly. Handled properly = get the customer in.

    When I was selling I wouldn't lie (unless the customer was being a jerk on the phone, then I'd go into the classic pre-defined script), but your question, if it did not specifically ask about a certain model, would have been answered by me truthfully, if perhaps incompletely.

    When's the best time for us to talk more about this - morning or afternoon?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    I couldn't work in a place like that. Listen in on my phone calls? See ya!

    I would never attempt to lure anybody in my giving out false information on the phone. for one thing, that's not me. Also, I don't want a ticked off customer to deal with. These are the things that give us a bad reputation.

    It CAN be tempting, however...when a real cheapskate gets nasty over the phone attempting to pit one dealer against another...or lies.." ABC Honda will sell me that Civic for 14,000"

    A price that is far below what we paid for it.

    I don't need it!
  • lancerfixerlancerfixer Member Posts: 1,308
    Well, the S60 isn't all new...it uses the same basic powertrain that's been used since the 850.
  • ptmccainptmccain Member Posts: 86
    Shopping around for a good price via phone or fax is a great idea. It worked well for me and may others. Dealers/sellers want to get you on their lots for they know then that they have the advantage. Isellhondas may be the greatest guy in the world, and I have never said otherwise, but a salesman or dealer who won't allow me to NOT waste my time is not worth my time.

    Dealers/salesmen who want to sell vehicles will work with you over the phone or fax or e-mail.

    So, go for it. Do your homework here and other places and then be assertive.

    Good luck.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    Is a PRIME example of someone that it would be VERY tempting to quote a lowball to!

    Oops...sorry, I did promise to ignore him!
  • ptmccainptmccain Member Posts: 86
    It is interesting how "isellhondas" can't deal with the points or the facts, but just resorts to personal attacks.

    It is good to have sellers here so we can see how they think.

    Buyers beware. Do your research and then get a great deal. You can do it.
  • afk_xafk_x Member Posts: 393
    The TRUTH shall set you free!

    Good Work Bill
  • wilcoxwilcox Member Posts: 584
    "On the phone, did you specify that you wanted to
    know whether the rebate applied to Prerunners
    specifically, or just the generic Tacoma?"

    After seeing the TV commercial, I felt the $1,000 cash back was on the level. Just to make sure, I phoned the Toyota Dealership. Everyone was in a meeting there, so I called another Metro dealership. They are covered under the same "blanket".

    The sales person answered "Yes" when I asked if Tacomas had the $1,000 off as stated in the TV advertisement.

    I also asked the sales person if they had any Prerunners left. He said, "Yes we have two."

    I did not specifically ask him if the rebate applied to Prerunners. I just assumed "all" Tacomas....that was my bad. I should have asked about it. I tricked myself.

    A good shopper or buyer has to be fully up to snuff on the dynamics of new car market. As one poster said, "...too bad the occasion only comes once or twice in a decade..".

    Anyone who dosen't have knowledge and can't pay attention to detail in this "game" will have to pay extra...and that's good for business...


    Signed: learned the hard way and still learning.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,783
    Never ask a car salesman how much a car costs. They will almost never give you a straight answer.

    It is a lot better to determine the price you are willing to pay for a car, and then just ask the salesman if they will accept that price.

    Even then, you will have to wait a few minutes while he talks to the sales manager, and then he will not probably not tell you that your offer has been refused. He will try to convince you that your offer should be increased, without specifically rejecting your offer.

    However, if you ask a direct question like, "Will you accept my offer, yes or no?" you should get an answer.

    If they say "No", then you may choose to believe him and increase your offer. On the other hand, you may start to walk out, and, from my experience, they may decide to accept your offer.
    However, they might decide not to accept your offer. In that case, you have only wasted a few minutes of your time, but you have learned that your offer would definitely not be accepted. That information will help you if you choose to make another offer in the future.
  • rbrenton88rbrenton88 Member Posts: 186
    I'm the type of shopper who likes to qualify the potential of a situation before commiting the time and effort. By that I mean I'd prefer to discuss general pricing over the phone or via email to decide if we are close enough to devote the time to making the drive out for a face-to-face chat. Over the years, if I met with reluctance to discuss even general numbers over the phone, my inclination was to dismiss that salesman (and dealership) and move on to something else.
    Now, when I read the thoughts of the resident sales people here (who I think are all straight shooters), I understand the reasons why they would avoid giving me numbers. The problem remains...how do I tell the difference between a straight-shooter and a shyster (sp?) without the risk of wasting time hiking to the showroom?
    Is Bob's method the best alternative?
  • jelliotjelliot Member Posts: 8
    here may disagree, but the best deals I saw go out and with the least hassle were the people who were creative enough to get straight to the sales manager, preferably as a referral.

    "Hi, Joe the sales manager, I'm a friend of Jim over at XYZ Motors and he told me that you were the best guy to talk to about a good deal on a 2001 whatever".

    Careful, though. I saw one guy try this by calling the receptionist and browbeating her into giving out the name of the sales manager on duty. He then tried the routine with the manager, who saw through it in a second.

    Use any contacts in the business that you may have, however slim they may seem.

    You still need to make sure they understand that you know what a good deal is, because I know one manager in particular that salesmen always wanted a "spoon" from, they were ALWAYS at least $800 commissions. He would pound his friends harder than the regular customers.
  • jelliotjelliot Member Posts: 8
    if you deal directly with the sales manager.

    Remember, they're the sales manager because at one time they were the best car salesman on the lot.
  • wilcoxwilcox Member Posts: 584
    then you must ask questions!
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Once a week or so I take a call from a customer who wants does exactly what jelliot suggests. If the customer is fully prepared to buy something.

    example,
    Customer: Rich, I would prefer to avoid all the showroom bs and would prefer to deal with you to make an offer and if its acceptable ill be down to buy the car. The car I want to buy is stock number P3878, the blue Audi A6 quattro for $40,000 out the door....

    Rich: "Come right down and bring your checkbook." Or I might counter offer once, but thats it. I don't have all day to deal directly with every customer. I have to worry about managing the whole dealership along with 20 salespeople....if the customer is prepared and ready to go the method can work. I turn the deal over to a salesperson the minute I hang up the phone. But, let me stress...nobody ever gets the cheapest price in town if they want to deal directly with me. maybe the quickest but not the lowest.

    If the customer starts in with a slew of questions about the cars features, wants the trade appraised over the phone and other stuff that the salesperson should be doing I will pass the customer to a salesperson immediatly...
  • sp01sp01 Member Posts: 81
    majority of people that take up these threads (myself included) are the kind of buyers who have done the legwork and homework, and are ready to present that offer.

    That is precisely how I have LEARNED to do business with dealerships. When I call, I have my financing and all other details in order, so that it's a simple yes or no question on a specific unit based on price.

    Makes life easy for me and easy for the manager.

    Two points to make here:

    1. Fast and hassle free works for those who are market savvy. I count myself in that group (too confident?). I'm looking for a good deal, sure, but not the absolute lowest price I can possibly get anywhere. I make reasonable offers. Looking to get invoice plus 4% on the newest, hottest ride in town is definitely NOT a reasonable offer. It's not even an offer, really.

    The grinder who will travel 50 miles and/or negotiate for three hours to save $200 bucks will probably be the same one who fails with this technique because their offer/expectation is unrealistic to begin with.

    2. I was forced to adopt this approach not so much because I originally wanted to bypass the salesman, but rather because I found that the typical salesman on the Toyota/Honda/Chrysler/Ford level lots not only knew less than I about the product, but was more of a hindrance in achieving a mutually beneficial arrangement than a help.

    As a side note, on one or more of these threads there's a sales guy who routinely posts the comment that regardless of whether or not you deal with the manager, the sale gets turned over to a salesperson. I believe his thought is that we are intent on NOT giving the salesperson ANY money out of the transaction. We don't care if a commission goes to the Janitor, just so that we don't have to put up with all the BS!

    Let me know when you acquire a Chrysler dealership; there's an offer I'd like to make!!!

    Best,
    Mark
  • jelliotjelliot Member Posts: 8
    with the manager's spoons. Not much talking on my part, just show the car if you wanted to see it, let you drive it if you wanted, answer any questions you had, and write up the paperwork. Deferred all questions about the price or other business aspects of the deal to the manager.
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    The one time I got REALLY steamed at dealer tricks was back in 1994. My wife and I were very interested in a new Montero SR. I think Ohio Valley Mitsu dealers are trained at birth to lie as a reflex action. Examples:
    1. We wanted only two specific options, which we knew were available as stand alones. Called the Lexington KY dealer who told us: "Them Monteros only come one way-loaded! Can't order a stripper."
    2. Heard a Cincinnati Dealers radio ad: "Every '94 Mitsubishi on sale at invoice." Called them(long distance, my dime). Salesman quotes me MSRP. I told him I thought there was an invoice sale. He sputters "Well, we'll negotiate down near invoice." Lying scum. In contrast, the BMW and Volvo dealers we have dealt with have been quite knowledgeable as well as honest.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    as many salespeople will tell you...the higher the profit of the product the higher quality of the people selling it... When walking into many mits dealers I bet the overall sales staff would rank a 2-3 at best where the typical BMW store ranks a 8-10. Thus giving you a much better chance for a quality experience. All dealers have a few salespeople who anyone would buy a car from. The key is to find them. Your experience will be much better for it...I tell alot of people to shop for a salesperson then a car.

    Rich
  • hingramhingram Member Posts: 24
    That is an old trick usually pulled at those mega dealerships. It's a classic. You settle on the price and then you get the deposit. Then you send them home. The next day, they come to get the car and you "finalize" the paperwork, adding the fees(dealer prep, sales fee, paperwork fee, etc). You take advantage of the ignorance of people. If they complain, you threaten the deposit. After all, the salesman never said that was the FINAL bill. Yesterday's figure was just the cost of the car. If they had been honest, they would have settled on the final cost of the car before she handed over the deposit. But in their eyes, the negotiated figure was the LEAST amount of money they would get.
  • ptmccainptmccain Member Posts: 86
    Yup, the old "processing fee" or "prep fee" or whatever fee. Some have the nerve to create abbreviations for it, and so further hide it. Then when you ask about it a classic response is suddently for everyone to look dumb and say, "Gosh, we aren't sure what that is, we just always add it!"

    And don't pay for any other crap like "rust proofing" or "paint treatment" or "fabric treatment." You can tell them, "You can spray that crap on or around but if you do I am not NOT paying for it."

    EVERYTHING is negotiable. The one fee that you will rarely, if ever, have waved is the destination fee. That is a nationally imposed fee by the manufacturer. The ad fee is next the most difficult to have waived, but some are successful at that.

    The processing fee is a "standard" fee that can be waived simply by saying, "No, I won't pay for you to fill out paperwork. That's the cost of doing business." Dealerships set different "processing fees." I've seen it go from $50 to $300.

    The other crap definitely MUST be waived or you should walk, probably run, from that dealer. If they are deceitful and dishonest on the front end of a sale, just imagine how they will try to rip you off in their service department!

    Whenever you think you have a great deal negotiated, have it put in writing, and then signed NOT by the salesman, but by an OFFICER of the dealership.

    Good luck!
  • wilcoxwilcox Member Posts: 584
    Thanks for clearing that up... It's time for "pt" to chime in....darn...I see he beat my post!
  • dhoffdhoff Member Posts: 282
    OK, it's Friday, and I've got a dealer "trick" to share with you all.

    It's what I have come to think of as the 90's version of putting bananas in the crankcase (or was it sawdust-no, that was for transmissions).

    Anyway, this was back in late 1998 when the wife and I were looking at new minivans. A local Dodge dealer had an ad in the paper with a really good price on a new Grand Caravan, equipped how we wanted one. The ad had a stock number in it, so it was good on that unit only.

    We went to take a look at it on a cold night in December. We got a salesman and told him the van we were interested in, and asked him if it was still available. He went to check and came back with the keys.

    We made our way out to the lot and found the van. He opened it up for us and we all got in because it was pretty cold. He got in the driver's seat and once we were all in, he started it up.

    The engine sounded horrible! It knocked like an 85 Caravan with 130,000 miles on it! Even my wife could hear it, and her hearing is not too good.

    Nobody said anything, my wife and I just kind of looked at each other like, do you hear that? The salesman quickly turned the radio on and turned the heater fan up to high and said "These really warm up fast!"

    It was all I could do not to laugh. My wife and I kind of looked at each other out of the corner of our eyes, trying not to crack up.

    We declined a test drive and had a good chuckle about it on the way home. We didn't end up buying a Caravan. I still have to admire that guy's salesmanship.

    Dave
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    A dirty trick indeed!

    when an ad says ONE ONLY, beware. The slock dealerships run these ads to get the suckers in the door.

    In the old days, I've heard stories of used cars being advertised at an artifically low price.

    The buyer shows up to discover the car runs terrible. Someone may have done something like cross a couple of spark plug wires to create this.

    Of course, the salesperson is quick to point out other cars that he has on the lot that run better!

    But, I guess I would be surprised to see a dealership do something to a brand new car in order to create a "problem".

    I suppose it's entirely possible.

    Tricks like this are beyond being crooked!
  • fivespeedfivespeed Member Posts: 42
    when they turn the stero and the A/C fan way up. Of course, it drowns out all the bad noises like motor, transmission, suspension, wind noise, and rattles and squeaks.

    When testing a car, turn off all that friggin crap they turn on. Listen to it....not the radio.
  • wtdwtd Member Posts: 96
    Make a deal, I have already picked out specific vehicles on which I want to deal with. Here are the steps I take to pick a vehicle.

    1. I research what vehicles will fit my needs and price range and then go test drive each.
    2. I then narrow my choices down to the specific makes that have the options, features, ETC. that I want.
    3. After I've picked the make, I go to the dealerships at night or on sundays so I can look without being bothered and pick out specific vehicles that have the color,options, ETC. that I want. I write down all info off of sticker along with prices.
    4. I go home and figure numbers and also arrange financing with my local bank or credit union.
    5. I go to the dealer and look over and test drive the exact vehicle that I've decided I want.
    6. If I'm still happy with the vehicle I've selected, then I go inside to negotiate. I already have my figures written down with the highest amount I've decided I'll give for the vehicle. I don't play "I'll have to go talk to my manager game" a million times. I may let him do it a couple of times and then I tell him what my final offer is and if they don't accept I walk out. I don't want or have the time to play games all day. If they accept my offer, then we talk about my trade in if I have one. I have usually shopped my vehicle around at the local used lots and dealerships so I know what its worth. If they don't want to give me what its worth, I leave. I always make it plain that I don't need a new vehicle.
    7. If we get to the financing stage, I let them see if they can match or beat my prearranged financing. If so, I'll finance through the dealer. I always have my payments figured out beforehand so I'll know what they will be for a few different interest rates.
    8. After checking over all of the paperwork and the vehicle for the last time and its right, I sign the papers and take my new vehicle home.

    I did this on my last two new vehicle purchases and it went very smoothly. From final test drive to signing the papers was about an hour and fifteen minutes. On my wife's $24,000 car and my $29,400 truck I paid $500 over invoice. I thought it was a fair deal for both parties.

    I negotiate like this to save everyone time and to make sure I get what I feel is a fair deal. I also feel it give the dealer less chance to play games or tricks with me. As they say, "knowledge is Power" A little homework beforehand can save you hours of negotiating later at the dealership and possibly getting screwed somewhere in the deal. I do the things I do because my very first truck purchase was far from pleasant and I learned some valuable lessons about being prepared before you step inside to negotiate. I'm sure some of our resident "car salesmen" will have some negative things to say about how I negotiate but it works for me and I always get the deal I want.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    I don't have a problem with that at all.

    Sounds like you've done your research and we'll complete the deal quickly as long as it's reasonable. Also sounds like you've done all of your due diligence on your part.

    I have no problem with that at all, however it's the "I want the car at $2500 under invoice and I'll spend 2 hours test driving 7 different identical models" customer who then takes your price to go shop it who I dont much care for. Then, after you spned 2 hours on a busy saturday fighting with the desk to get them their price, which is well below market, they then walk right out on you and tell you that they will shop it against 10 other dealers. They then buy the car 400 miles away for $100 less.

    That's the customer I dont like!

    Bill
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Im with Bill....nothing wrong with your buying method. simple, straight forward and reasonable. I won't make a killing selling you a car but it appears you can be won over as a customer and referral plus a quick sale without alot of BS on either side.

    Like Bill, its the guy who read only half of the "how to buy a car" book and thinks he can get a new porsche spyder gt for $300 over invoice and will prove it to all his friends. hahaha

    Rich
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    I totally agree with you. Often, I'll get a used car customer that will turn the stupid radio on before doing anything else.

    I'll usually suggest that they turn it off so they can hear the engine, etc.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Happened today.

    I sold an ES300 to a couple who I actually liked working with a lot. Very pleasant and truly nice people who were fun to deal with. The key with them was nailing the car itself down (IS300? ES300?) but once that was done (He loved the IS300 but it was for her and she liked the ES) it was simple.

    Out comes all of the 'net info.

    I probably spent 5 mins in negotiations, and basically told the GSM "Look, I dont wanna grind this guy all day, he doesnt wanna grind us and neither do you if we can do $X, we'll wrap it up right now"

    I got one conter which wasnt close to his price then we came to a mutual agreement. I didnt even bother discussing the counter seriously with him either. I've always had the belief that "If you're going to take a mini, take it quickly".

    Which is what I did. It wasn't a mini, but the sale price was below market on the car. I'm not going to beat a customer up over price, and he had done his shopping.

    More power to him, I'd do the same thing!

    It's the unreasonable and nasty people that I won't put up with.

    Bill
  • ptmccainptmccain Member Posts: 86
    A great site on the Internet for learning all about dealer tricks is:

    http://www.carbuyingtips.com

    The fact that car salesmen HATE this site and will say everything they can to bad mouth it is eloquent testimony to its accuracy and helpfulness.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    Well...that site has been around a long time along with many others.

    Funny...I can't remember any of us badmouthing it...

    Hosts..? Can you do something?
  • ptmccainptmccain Member Posts: 86
    I found an interesting, though brief, set of guidelines to use when buying a new car at:

    http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/cars/newcar/newcar.htm
  • ptmccainptmccain Member Posts: 86
    Here is another useful site, courtesy of Uncle Sam:

    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/newcar.htm
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