Just my 2 cents' worth - I had a 99 Passat wagon and though I loved the styling inside and out, the thing was a total dog on freeways and hills (it was a 4 cylinder), and got TERRIBLE gas mileage - no where near what the EPA estimate was in the city (got the 28 on the highway, but only about 13 around town). I just bought a new Accord with the 2.4 i-VTEC engine and it's MUCH MUCH peppier with great lower-end torque. I don't care for the plastic wood trim inside, but if it bothers me that much I'll spring for the brushed metal conversion kit. I've had two previous Hondas, but never liked the Accords much until this year when the styling spiffed up. The Passat is no doubt a more stylish car, but I don't like the performance and they are hellishly expensive to maintain, needing tune-ups so frequently. Plus the insurance is much more expensive because repair costs after an accident are so high. My insurance on my new car is actually cheaper than on the older Passat, and my agent told me that is why.
I own a 98 Accord V6EX, a 2002 Volks Passat GLX and a Lexus RX300. For reliability I don't believe you can beat the Accord. The odometer is is approaching 160 K miles with only routine maitenance.
My wife loves the Lexus (I don't) sedan ride with an SUV body. However Lexus service is outstanding and there have been no major mechanical issues with the Lexus at 55 K miles.
As for the Passat It's an ok vehicle for the price. I find the performance and handling on the neutral side. The ignition coil issue with this model has me a bit spooked. I commute a 105 mile/day. If my car doesn't go I don't make a living.
To me reliability is everything. For others 0 to 60 mph in 5 sec. is a priority. For others transporting the soccer team in the vehicle is a must.
Before you buy, it might be a good idea to prioritize what you want in a vehicle and what your life style demands. Also be financially smart. A car is possibly the worse investment you can make...
"The problem, and it is epidemic, is that the ignition coils in the vehicles are failing, leaving drivers to sputter off the road under greatly reduced power.
Volkswagen and Audi acknowledge that every coil on every cylinder in these cars is susceptible to failure."
As bad as the (by now highly publicized) necessity of a coil pack replacement is for the owner of a fairly new car, let’s keep a few things in mind here:
- the problem does not affect new (2003) cars - the problem does not affect pre-2001 cars - the problem does not affect the V6, normally aspirated 4cyl. or TDI cars
Although clearly a nuisance, a coil pack failure is somewhat comparable to a spark plug failure and does not indicate “engine problems” for VW/Audi.
so this would be OK with you if it were your car? Also, let's not assume the 2003 cars are "just fine" until we have allowed some time to pass - the way this fix was executed, at triple shifts running night and day and working really fast to catch up with an enormous backlog, can we really take it on faith that the company that caused this mess in the first place has just up and fixed everything overnight?
Time will tell. Yes, it does not mean the engines are bad, but a car is only as good as the sum of its parts (at least the ones vital to running), and around the year 2000, I think we crossed the threshold where carmakers in general are cost-cutting so much on their parts now, that it is affecting their reliability to an unnecessary and inordinate extent.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
i am around hondas daily, so a 150-200k mile car is a normality. however, 25 years ago, if a car made it to 75-100k miles, you had a piece of gold. 30 years ago, they didnt even have a sixth digit on the odometer. 50 years ago, noone took a chance on a car over 50k miles.
i think reliability overall is fantastic compared to our past, and only getting better. yes, even ford and chrysler too. a car these days is EXPECTED to get at least to 125k for domestics, and at least 175-200k for imports.
having said that, i wouldnt buy anything but a honda or toyota SIMPLY for the longevity itself.
Altima Good - That 3.5 V6 goes like stink (I mean FAST) - Nice exterior styling. Bad - Cheap feeling interior. - So much road noise it seemed like the windows were all rolled down. - Maybe it's because my wife and I both like to give each other heck over how fast we're going, but we didn't like the deep cylinders the guages were in. Passenger can't see them unless they lean way over.
Camry - we looked at one, then sat in one and just said "Uck!" Didn't even drive it. Just not aesthetically appealing to us. I realize that many others love the look. Don't reply to me saying I'm a nut.
Accord Good - LX V6, which can be had for about the same price as the Passat GL 1.8T, is deceptively quick. My wife was going 90 at the end of the on-ramp. - It's a Honda, it will be reliable - I thought the interior was more "whiz-bang" than the Passat Bad - Trunk passthrough is very narrow - Doesn't have a split bench - We thought exterior was not as spicy as Honda wanted us to think - Rear seatbelt strangulated my mother, who we have in the back seat often.
And I don't really know what everybody is talking about regarding price/feature advantages of the Accord over the Passat. At Edmund's site right now, the TMV price for the Accord EX 2.4 is only $1562 less than the Passat GLS 1.8T. Both cars compare pretty favorably, with trade offs here and there for each. I think when you're spending $20K, 1500 shouldn't a deciding factor that keeps you from getting the car you want.
However, the LX V6 and Passat GL 1.8T have TMV prices within $100 of each other. If you can do without the bells and whistles (alloys, sun roof, leather, power heated seats) and a couple of air bags, and want to go fast(er), the Accord LX V6 is worth taking for a spin. It's the car I was initially leaning towards, but we went with the Passat GLS for the following reasons in order of importance:
- Wife liked it better - Exterior styling - Better warranty (I know, lots of people say you'll never use Honda's anyways) - Interior fit & finish. - Front seat passengers feel like they have space to move, rather than that they are wrapped in the car. - Large trunk passthrough/split rear seat. - Better rear seat comfort (even thought there's less overall space). - Exterior styling (Yes, again. We just thought it looks better than the others) - Cool purple gauge lighting. - Chrome trunk tie-downs. Spiffy where it doesn't count, even.
The things we are living with: - Somebody else please confirm this. If you have size 12 feet and clunky shoes, it's really hard to go back and forth quickly from brake to accelerator. The brake and accelerator seem way too close to each other. Widen them out or make them adjustable. - Gas mileage is pretty poor for a four banger, even though the car is quite heavy. - Expensive to be buying premium fuel, too. - The center armrest in the front is starting to bug me. It slides too easily. I find if moves if I lean on it. - No door pockets in rear. - Has a larger drivetrain hump in rear than others. Only a problem if you've got a middle passenger.
Oh ya, just got my notice in the mail about the coil problem. I hope my 03 isn't one of them. The letter doesn't mention 03's as having the problem.
Good choice. Just get rid of those clunky shoes - they are not safe in any car. If you must, keep a set of driving shoes (dare I say Birkenstock?) in your car.
The 1.8T *can* be driven with good mileage. Many people report much better than 30mpg highway. Check your tire pressure - if your tires allow and the ride doesn't bother you, try 34-36PSI.
Keep in mind, Volkswagens, in general, don't have too much bargaining room. The difference between invoice and MSRP is about $1000. I went through this already.
The VW press release does state that *early* 2003 are also affected by the faulty ignition coils. Does anyone know what the cutoff is? Production month? VIN?
I found your Accord vs. Passat comparo very interesting. I did the same comparison and came up with very similar conclusions.
The Accord LX V6 is a great value, and I seriously wanted to like it....but the cabin seemed very claustrophobic to me. I'm 6' 5" and even without sunroof I had to recline the seat way back to keep my head away from the headliner. And my right leg was constantly hitting the center console. I just knew I couldn't deal with this. The Passat cockpit is so much more spacious and open, and the seat travel and headroom are great.
I wear size 15 shoes and didn't notice a problem with the Passat pedal spacing during a couple of short test drives (Tiptronic).
I also thought Camry was blah. Competent, reliable, but totally uninspiring.
Regarding fuel, premium is "recommended" but not "required" and a lot of people run regular or midgrade. In most cases performance will not be significantly affected, the possible exception being during hot weather when the knock sensor will retard the timing. Some people run premium just during hot weather and regular the rest of the year.
So, basically I can get the top of the line Honda Accord, fully loaded, for a bit less than the price of the 1.8T Passat (which does not have all the bells & whistles included on the Accord).
My problem: (I think it's an obvious problem-but it's still driving me crazy): Clearly, the Accord is the better deal. My husband and I are much more comfortable with Honda's reliability, and we really aren't in the position to keep dumping money into a higher maintenance car. However, I can't stand the *looks* of the Accord (although I could live with it). I **LOVE** the look of the Passat. I feel a lot more comfortable in the Passat, but I guess I could get use to driving the bigger Accord. If ONLY the Passat had the same reliability......
Have I already answered my own question??!! Any words of advice would be greatly appreciated!
you can't see the exterior of the passat while sitting in the interior-- which is what you'll be doing....the passat's radio sits way too low also, almost in the transmission hump... you want to be reaching forward to insert a cd, be my guest? passat's are overpriced...
get the accord...no-brainer. you can't go by looks anyway in a 4 door sedan-- sedans by their nature aren't to be purchased for looks -- go with 2 door coupes for looks; go with 4 door sedans for utility.
this isn't close-- go with the accord...am i nuts?
Out of repsect for fellow members of this board, could you please stop posting, the same message over and over again in every single thread. Its quite annoying and not needed.
Actually, I posted it once in two separate threads...not "over and over again in every single thread." I thought the intent of these boards were to help people out with information and such. If simply conversing with others about my situation constitutes posting the same thing over and over...well then, I'm very sorry. I am new to these boards and in no way meant to DISrespect the fellow members- as you put it. Geez...
i think the accord will be the car you'll look back on, and say "im soooo glad we picked this one!!" have you owned a honda before? if not, then you are in for a treat. up until 12/01, i had never even driven a honda of any kind. i wouldnt have any other car. the common attitude is "so THIS is what everyone talks about". the passat is a fine car, but over time i think you wont care about its looks.
Mike: Give tbgar a break. He has every right to ask a question as important as his is. Car buying is a major decision and he just wants several opinions. I don't blame him at all. It is not annoying and not disrepectful either. tbgar: I think overall the Accord is the better complete package but I know how important it is for you to be able to look at the car and like what you see. If you absolutely hate the looks of the Accord then I say get the Passat. "Consumer Reports" rates both of these vehicles as being very, very close. I feel the Accord would have the edge on reliability.
Good luck choosing a car (I'd go with the Accord since reliability is my biggest issue), but anyway, where did you get those prices for the Accord? Do they include the destination ($460)?
I really do appreciate the feedback! And thanks Fredvh for sticking up for me Not sure if there are few women on these boards, but I'm one. But, yes there's no way of knowing. And I really appreciate a place where I can come ask all my questions and seek advice.
(Fredvh- That's one thing that drives me nuts about the whole Passat vs. Honda thing. The Passat does rate well overall. But when I get out there and talk to owners...its a whole nother story! Maybe just a case of angry customers being louder than happy ones? Something about the uncertainty of it all makes me nervous though.)
How I got those prices: I'm recently married and my husband is busy with work and so I've pretty much done ALL the research for this car purchase! I read all sorts of websites (especially carbuyingtips.com) I think this really helped me get those great prices. I would have never imagined I'd walk onto a lot by meself (of course husband will be there for the purchase). But I wasn't as intimidated by the sales people because I had done my research. And when he came to getting those prices, I worked only with the internet/fleet managers. I think the President's Day sales also helped. But I'm being told they'll still honor my price. From what I understand the prices I've received are everything exclusing tax & liscense. I ask about manufacturer to dealer incentives and how they can work with me to still earn a profit and offer me a car below invoice. I'm sure many of them hate me or think I'm nuts...but so far most have been really helpful. I had to walk out of one place. I didn't like that, but the guy (who wasn't the internet manager) was just lying to me. My husband was there with me and I just said we're outta here.
I'm in CA (the Silicon Valley), maybe that has something to do with the good prices. A lot of unemployment, cost of living still too high...etc.
As for my decision, I've ruled out the Passat I just can't get myself to make the purchase knowing it *may* have so many problems. That's what kills me....I could get lucky and have NO problems and I would just LOVE that car, but I don't think we're in that position to take those risks. It just isn't the best decision for us at this time. I'm a full time student, husband is working, trying to save for a house...I need to remember what's important- a nice, reliable car that won't give me any headaches. Even if I got *unlucky* and had all sorts of problems with the accord, I'd know that I made the decision given the information available to me. If the Passat gave me trouble- I'd have no one but myself to blame for going ahead with it. That would drive me nuts and I'd dwell on it forever.
So that's that! I'm buying the Accord this week. Unless I hear something ASAP that'll make me wait for the Acura TSX debut...but all I'm hearing is that it'll be more expensive. With the limited supply in the beginning, I'm sure I'd have NO luck negotiating prices. I can't get myself to buy at MSRP...aarrgh!
I just walked into a VW dealership to look at the Passat. Have to replace my Avalon (which goes off-lease later this year). While doing so, I was remembering the last VW I bought... a '61 Beetle!!! Had a cloth sunroof (great, except the rear windows did not open and anything over 35 MPH produced a 'whoofing sound' from the back!) Outside (drivers) rear-view mirror was an option...$5.95! as was a fuel gauge (don't remember cost). Car had a reserve tank, so they figured they did not need a fuel gauge! Please comment on BACK SEAT ROOM of Passat! Not fair to compare with Avalon which is HUGE! What do you folks think?
fredvh, I looked at the Camry when out car shopping with my parents. My husband, mom, and I all thought it was too boring. My Dad loved it. My mom is much *hipper* than my Dad. I feel the Accord would be perfect for my Mom and that I still need something a little different (like a super reliable Passat would be perfect!) The Camry, although a very nice car, isn't quite right for me at this point. I also considered the Altima for some time, but at that point, I'd just as well go with the Accord which I feel is a better deal.
I think the discrepancy you are seeing the the Passat's rankings are based on magazines like Consumer Reports WANTING to like the Passat but it's up and down reliability have prevented them from doing so.
I think the most important thing for you to NOT do is settle. I've done it before and if you settle for one thing that isn't exactly what you want then you will regret it most days.
But OTH, I think you will be very happy with the Accord in the long run. We have a 2003 4 cylinder coupe and love it. Almost 4,000 miles and no problems to report. But then again, that's typical of our prior Honda ownership experiences.
Also curious, since you were considering the Passat 1.8T, have you thought about the Accord 4 cylinder EX? I know it won't be quite as fast as the V6 Accord but has almost as much HP as the Passat 1.8T but it's not turbo so there won't be any of the lag you get with the Passat. You can get a 4 cylinder EX automatic with leather for $21,400. So with the $2000 you are saving over the EX V6 you can spring for the Navigation system.
Even though you have made up your mind, just remember people normally have a lot to say about the "bad" stuff and not much on the "good" stuff. There are people on the Honda Accord boards that are having problems, and there are people on the Volkswagen Passat that have problems. No vehicle can be absolutely perfect. I have the same decision to make at the end of the year. It has already come down the the Passat GLS 1.8T and the Honda Accord EX-L 4 cylinder. I am ready to try something different this time (I have my 3rd Honda now), and have something a little more exciting!
Anonymousposts, There is no noticable turbo lag with the 1.8 Passat.The car is an absolute kick to drive, and is very quick in stock form and gets 30mpg on the highway. It can be modified to almost any performance level you want for very little money. Audi uses the 1.8T in the TT Roadster with a different chip. It produces 225 HP and is still covered under the full factory warranty. I have read of people getting up to 400 HP out of a 1.8T engine but I would never even consider going that high. My other car is an Infiniti which is also fun to drive, but the Passat is a bargain! I feel very connected to the Passat when driving, the response is excellent, and all the details well thought out. I read a review that said Honda benchmarked the Passat with the new Accord, but fell short...and the next generation Passat will be out in late 04'. It will be even more refined, another benchmark!
bj: Car & Driver stated the engine was smooth but there was slight turbo lag. Edmunds also noted first gear turbo lag in their 1.8T with a manual transmission.
The Passat may be your "benchmark" but the Accord is widely considered the benchmark of the mid-size family sedan class. It manages to be efficient, affordable, fun-to-drive, reliable, and comfortable all at the same time. Kind of a cross between a Camry (which is a solid, dependable car) and the Passat (which has more personality).
Just read the Edmund's "Editors Most Wanted' sedan under $25K, VW Passat. "Consumers Most Wanted" midsize sedan under $30k, VW Passat. They also said: "Actually, the Accord keeps pace with the segment's fastest sedans in terms of straight-line acceleration, but when it comes to outright handling prowess, the Passat, Altima and new Mazda 6 have it beat". They also said: "Overall, only the current Camry equals the Accord in terms of high-quality materials, but the Passat still beats them both for pure "premium-ness." and: "There have even been industry trade stories reporting that Honda used Volkswagen's Passat as inspiration on how to give the company's volume sedan an appealing aura that goes beyond pure logic. A week spent driving the 2003 Accord confirmed two things: The Passat is still the segment benchmark in terms of ergonomic design, interior roominess and overall ride quality; and it still won't derail Passat intenders."
Car and Driver named the Accord to its 10 Best Cars list. The Passat is conspicuous by its absence.
In a comparison test in the same magazine, the Accord was awarded first place to the Passat's third place. In describing the Accord, they said:
"If superiority in the mid-size family sedan market is about sweeping excellence --- and we think it is --- then the Accord has come through again."
And fit and finish gets a 10 to the Passat's 9, and both cars get a 9 in ergonomics and ride.
While over at Road and Track, the Passat GLX was bottom-rated (5th place) to the Accord EX V6's first place. The Accord beat the Passat in steering and handling, and ergonomics, and driving excitement.
About the Passat, they said, "It's a strange world we live in; the Accord feels like a German car, and the Passat doesn't."
3 of 5 editors chose the Accord as the car they'd pick personally, as compared to 1 for the Passat.
And finally, Consumer Reports picked the Accord EX over the Passat as the best 4-cylinder family sedan.
Edmunds is one of the few lukewarm reviews of the Accord... obviously, C&D and R&T have a much higher opinion of it. And a somewhat lower opinion of the Passat.
You also have to remember that this generation Passat is a few years old. The competition is just now catching up after using the Passat as a benchmark, and the Passat is still favored in many reviews, although it is older. The next generation Passat will be introduced late next year, and everyone will be scrambling to catch up again. Who's the innovator, and who's the copycat? I'm surprised that Honda didn't introduce more interesting styling with this generation. It doesen't stand out as a new car from the ground up, it just looks like another Honda. I'm sure if they had design as striking as VW , Audi, Nissan and Infiniti, they would sell a lot more cars. Competition is great, the customer get's all the benefits!
After all, the Accord remained among the top rated cars even in the last year of its last generation, winning or nearly winning many comparisons. And it still landed on the Car and Driver 10 Best list, again in its last year.
Although Honda used the Passat as a guideline for certain things (suspension tuning, mostly), it's still very clearly an Accord. According to most of the press, it didn't really have much if any catching up to do.
It will be interesting to see how the Passat's upscale image and performance will weather the switch from a chassis shared with the Audi A6 to one shared with the Jetta. The Passat had generally been considered to be a major underachiever until the last generation, and much of its appeal was the result of being perceived as a "more affordable Audi". When this changes, will the Passat revert to being the also-ran that it was before on a VW based chassis? As I said, it will be interesting.
I'm not sure where anon's post about the misquote went, but you quoted:
"A week spent driving the 2003 Accord confirmed two things: The Passat is still the segment benchmark in terms of ergonomic design, interior roominess and overall ride quality; and it still won't derail Passat intenders."
when the review actually said:
"A week spent driving the 2003 Accord confirmed two things: It's still the segment benchmark in terms of ergonomic design, interior roominess and overall ride quality; and it still won't derail Passat intenders."
If you're going to use quotes, please double check to make sure they're accurate.
"For 2003 Honda has suggested a new direction for the Accord. The company tells us the car is now more "passionate" and "emotional." Its styling and demeanor are supposed to capture the spirit of a cheetah. There have even been industry trade stories reporting that Honda used Volkswagen's Passat as inspiration on how to give the company's volume sedan an appealing aura that goes beyond pure logic.
A week spent driving the 2003 Accord confirmed two things: It's still the segment benchmark in terms of ergonomic design, interior roominess and overall ride quality; and it still won't derail Passat intenders."
I believe the "It" they were referring to is the "inspiration", the Passat, as still being the benchmark, not the Honda.
talon: I was wondering the same thing. Thank you for reposting it though.
The Passat has not done well in recent reviews against the Accord. CR placed the Accord first, Car and Driver placed the Accord first, and MT placed the car first.
" I'm sure if they had design as striking as VW , Audi, Nissan and Infiniti, they would sell a lot more cars."
Honda sells 400,000 Accords vs. only 100,000 Passats sold. In fact Honda sells more Accords than the Altima, the Passat, and the Jetta combined. So maybe VW needs to concentrate on the quality of their cars instead of the appearance. I would rather have a ugly car that's reliable and fun-to-drive than a pretty car with a "German feel" that stays in the shop.
That last portion of the sentence says that "IT" (being the Accord) still won't derail Passat intenders. Therefore the "IT" they are referring to in the rest of the sentence is the Accord, not the Passat. Or they would've said that the Passat was still the segment benchmark. But they said that a week driving the Accord confirmed that it was still the segment benchmark.
If the Accord is the benchmark, why did they say the Passat was the inspiration? Sounds like the same thing to me. Why would they say the Accord would not derail any Passat intenders if it was the benchmark?
"The Passat has not done well in recent reviews" is a distortion of the facts. The results have been marginal and extremely close in all of the reviews, with the Pasaat still preferred in some reviews, for example Edmunds. You said: "I would rather have a ugly car that's reliable and fun-to-drive than a pretty car with a "German feel" that stays in the shop." On the flip side: I would rather have a great design that also has the fun-to-drive German feel. Reliablility of my Passat is TBD because it's only 9 months old, and it's been one of the best cars I've ever owned, and I've owned a lot of performance/enthusiast cars.
The Passat placed last in one comparison test. Behind the Camry, Mazda6, Accord, and the Altima. They said the car had a rubbery and vague feel to the steering and they also criticized the feel of the brakes. It was the slowest car of the group with the 2.8L V6. And as was said before, at the end of the article they state that it's a strange world when an Accord feels like a German car and the Passat doesn't.
Comments
Make it cheaper.
Make it faster.
Make it better.
As an engineer, I know that you can only have 2 out of 3.
My wife loves the Lexus (I don't) sedan ride with an SUV body. However Lexus service is outstanding and there have been no major mechanical issues with the Lexus at 55 K miles.
As for the Passat It's an ok vehicle for the price. I find the performance and handling on the neutral side. The ignition coil issue with this model has me a bit spooked. I commute a 105 mile/day. If my car doesn't go I don't make a living.
To me reliability is everything.
For others 0 to 60 mph in 5 sec. is a priority.
For others transporting the soccer team in the vehicle is a must.
Before you buy, it might be a good idea to prioritize what you want in a vehicle and what your life style demands. Also be financially smart. A car is possibly the worse investment you can make...
Volkswagen and Audi acknowledge that every coil on every cylinder in these cars is susceptible to failure."
article in Boston Globe:
http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/026/auto/No_easy_fix_for_failin- g_ignition_coils_in_Audis_VWs+.shtml
- the problem does not affect new (2003) cars
- the problem does not affect pre-2001 cars
- the problem does not affect the V6, normally aspirated 4cyl. or TDI cars
Although clearly a nuisance, a coil pack failure is somewhat comparable to a spark plug failure and does not indicate “engine problems” for VW/Audi.
- D
TDI
Also, let's not assume the 2003 cars are "just fine" until we have allowed some time to pass - the way this fix was executed, at triple shifts running night and day and working really fast to catch up with an enormous backlog, can we really take it on faith that the company that caused this mess in the first place has just up and fixed everything overnight?
Time will tell. Yes, it does not mean the engines are bad, but a car is only as good as the sum of its parts (at least the ones vital to running), and around the year 2000, I think we crossed the threshold where carmakers in general are cost-cutting so much on their parts now, that it is affecting their reliability to an unnecessary and inordinate extent.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
i think reliability overall is fantastic compared to our past, and only getting better. yes, even ford and chrysler too. a car these days is EXPECTED to get at least to 125k for domestics, and at least 175-200k for imports.
having said that, i wouldnt buy anything but a honda or toyota SIMPLY for the longevity itself.
Altima
Good
- That 3.5 V6 goes like stink (I mean FAST)
- Nice exterior styling.
Bad
- Cheap feeling interior.
- So much road noise it seemed like the windows were all rolled down.
- Maybe it's because my wife and I both like to give each other heck over how fast we're going, but we didn't like the deep cylinders the guages were in. Passenger can't see them unless they lean way over.
Camry
- we looked at one, then sat in one and just said "Uck!" Didn't even drive it. Just not aesthetically appealing to us. I realize that many others love the look. Don't reply to me saying I'm a nut.
Accord
Good
- LX V6, which can be had for about the same price as the Passat GL 1.8T, is deceptively quick. My wife was going 90 at the end of the on-ramp.
- It's a Honda, it will be reliable
- I thought the interior was more "whiz-bang" than the Passat
Bad
- Trunk passthrough is very narrow
- Doesn't have a split bench
- We thought exterior was not as spicy as Honda wanted us to think
- Rear seatbelt strangulated my mother, who we have in the back seat often.
And I don't really know what everybody is talking about regarding price/feature advantages of the Accord over the Passat. At Edmund's site right now, the TMV price for the Accord EX 2.4 is only $1562 less than the Passat GLS 1.8T. Both cars compare pretty favorably, with trade offs here and there for each. I think when you're spending $20K, 1500 shouldn't a deciding factor that keeps you from getting the car you want.
However, the LX V6 and Passat GL 1.8T have TMV prices within $100 of each other. If you can do without the bells and whistles (alloys, sun roof, leather, power heated seats) and a couple of air bags, and want to go fast(er), the Accord LX V6 is worth taking for a spin. It's the car I was initially leaning towards, but we went with the Passat GLS for the following reasons in order of importance:
- Wife liked it better
- Exterior styling
- Better warranty (I know, lots of people say you'll never use Honda's anyways)
- Interior fit & finish.
- Front seat passengers feel like they have space to move, rather than that they are wrapped in the car.
- Large trunk passthrough/split rear seat.
- Better rear seat comfort (even thought there's less overall space).
- Exterior styling (Yes, again. We just thought it looks better than the others)
- Cool purple gauge lighting.
- Chrome trunk tie-downs. Spiffy where it doesn't count, even.
The things we are living with:
- Somebody else please confirm this. If you have size 12 feet and clunky shoes, it's really hard to go back and forth quickly from brake to accelerator. The brake and accelerator seem way too close to each other. Widen them out or make them adjustable.
- Gas mileage is pretty poor for a four banger, even though the car is quite heavy.
- Expensive to be buying premium fuel, too.
- The center armrest in the front is starting to bug me. It slides too easily. I find if moves if I lean on it.
- No door pockets in rear.
- Has a larger drivetrain hump in rear than others. Only a problem if you've got a middle passenger.
Oh ya, just got my notice in the mail about the coil problem. I hope my 03 isn't one of them. The letter doesn't mention 03's as having the problem.
Good choice. Just get rid of those clunky shoes - they are not safe in any car. If you must, keep a set of driving shoes (dare I say Birkenstock?) in your car.
The 1.8T *can* be driven with good mileage. Many people report much better than 30mpg highway. Check your tire pressure - if your tires allow and the ride doesn't bother you, try 34-36PSI.
- D
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
The Accord LX V6 is a great value, and I seriously wanted to like it....but the cabin seemed very claustrophobic to me. I'm 6' 5" and even without sunroof I had to recline the seat way back to keep my head away from the headliner. And my right leg was constantly hitting the center console. I just knew I couldn't deal with this. The Passat cockpit is so much more spacious and open, and the seat travel and headroom are great.
I wear size 15 shoes and didn't notice a problem with the Passat pedal spacing during a couple of short test drives (Tiptronic).
I also thought Camry was blah. Competent, reliable, but totally uninspiring.
Regarding fuel, premium is "recommended" but not "required" and a lot of people run regular or midgrade. In most cases performance will not be significantly affected, the possible exception being during hot weather when the knock sensor will retard the timing. Some people run premium just during hot weather and regular the rest of the year.
I am also trying to decide between the 2003 Honda Accord and the 2003 VW Passat GLS 1.8
I was able to get the following prices(which I think are pretty good!! - someone please tell me if they believe otherwise).
2003 Honda Accord EX-L
4 cyl: $20,988
V6: $23,100
2003 VW Passat GLS 1.8T (w/leather, monsoon sound, homelink, EPS system, power everything except seats)
$23,600
So, basically I can get the top of the line Honda Accord, fully loaded, for a bit less than the price of the 1.8T Passat (which does not have all the bells & whistles included on the Accord).
My problem: (I think it's an obvious problem-but it's still driving me crazy):
Clearly, the Accord is the better deal. My husband and I are much more comfortable with Honda's reliability, and we really aren't in the position to keep dumping money into a higher maintenance car. However, I can't stand the *looks* of the Accord (although I could live with it). I **LOVE** the look of the Passat. I feel a lot more comfortable in the Passat, but I guess I could get use to driving the bigger Accord. If ONLY the Passat had the same reliability......
Have I already answered my own question??!! Any words of advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you!
I have owned a golf and 2 passats since "96" with only minor problems. So get the passat and enjoy.
get the accord...no-brainer. you can't go by looks anyway in a 4 door sedan-- sedans by their nature aren't to be purchased for looks -- go with 2 door coupes for looks; go with 4 door sedans for utility.
this isn't close-- go with the accord...am i nuts?
Geez...
This comparison just show how much of a bargin the Accord really is.
The Passat looks better, but it looks rather plain without mudguards. The Accord looks good once you add a few accessories to it as well.
tbgar: I think overall the Accord is the better complete package but I know how important it is for you to be able to look at the car and like what you see. If you absolutely hate the looks of the Accord then I say get the Passat. "Consumer Reports" rates both of these vehicles as being very, very close. I feel the Accord would have the edge on reliability.
I really do appreciate the feedback! And thanks Fredvh for sticking up for me
(Fredvh- That's one thing that drives me nuts about the whole Passat vs. Honda thing. The Passat does rate well overall. But when I get out there and talk to owners...its a whole nother story! Maybe just a case of angry customers being louder than happy ones? Something about the uncertainty of it all makes me nervous though.)
How I got those prices:
I'm recently married and my husband is busy with work and so I've pretty much done ALL the research for this car purchase! I read all sorts of websites (especially carbuyingtips.com) I think this really helped me get those great prices. I would have never imagined I'd walk onto a lot by meself (of course husband will be there for the purchase). But I wasn't as intimidated by the sales people because I had done my research. And when he came to getting those prices, I worked only with the internet/fleet managers. I think the President's Day sales also helped. But I'm being told they'll still honor my price. From what I understand the prices I've received are everything exclusing tax & liscense. I ask about manufacturer to dealer incentives and how they can work with me to still earn a profit and offer me a car below invoice. I'm sure many of them hate me or think I'm nuts...but so far most have been really helpful. I had to walk out of one place. I didn't like that, but the guy (who wasn't the internet manager) was just lying to me. My husband was there with me and I just said we're outta here.
I'm in CA (the Silicon Valley), maybe that has something to do with the good prices. A lot of unemployment, cost of living still too high...etc.
As for my decision, I've ruled out the Passat
I just can't get myself to make the purchase knowing it *may* have so many problems. That's what kills me....I could get lucky and have NO problems and I would just LOVE that car, but I don't think we're in that position to take those risks. It just isn't the best decision for us at this time. I'm a full time student, husband is working, trying to save for a house...I need to remember what's important- a nice, reliable car that won't give me any headaches. Even if I got *unlucky* and had all sorts of problems with the accord, I'd know that I made the decision given the information available to me. If the Passat gave me trouble- I'd have no one but myself to blame for going ahead with it. That would drive me nuts and I'd dwell on it forever.
So that's that! I'm buying the Accord this week. Unless I hear something ASAP that'll make me wait for the Acura TSX debut...but all I'm hearing is that it'll be more expensive. With the limited supply in the beginning, I'm sure I'd have NO luck negotiating prices. I can't get myself to buy at MSRP...aarrgh!
Thanks so much everyone (gosh, I've rambled...)
Please comment on BACK SEAT ROOM of Passat! Not fair to compare with Avalon which is HUGE! What do you folks think?
Sometimes people just have a bad day, I reckon.
Feel free to let me know if I can help you find your way around the Town Hall.
Good luck!
I looked at the Camry when out car shopping with my parents. My husband, mom, and I all thought it was too boring. My Dad loved it. My mom is much *hipper* than my Dad. I feel the Accord would be perfect for my Mom and that I still need something a little different (like a super reliable Passat would be perfect!) The Camry, although a very nice car, isn't quite right for me at this point. I also considered the Altima for some time, but at that point, I'd just as well go with the Accord which I feel is a better deal.
tbgar
I think the most important thing for you to NOT do is settle. I've done it before and if you settle for one thing that isn't exactly what you want then you will regret it most days.
But OTH, I think you will be very happy with the Accord in the long run. We have a 2003 4 cylinder coupe and love it. Almost 4,000 miles and no problems to report. But then again, that's typical of our prior Honda ownership experiences.
Also curious, since you were considering the Passat 1.8T, have you thought about the Accord 4 cylinder EX? I know it won't be quite as fast as the V6 Accord but has almost as much HP as the Passat 1.8T but it's not turbo so there won't be any of the lag you get with the Passat. You can get a 4 cylinder EX automatic with leather for $21,400. So with the $2000 you are saving over the EX V6 you can spring for the Navigation system.
Happy trails with your new Accord.
There is no noticable turbo lag with the 1.8 Passat.The car is an absolute kick to drive, and is very quick in stock form and gets 30mpg on the highway. It can be modified to almost any performance level you want for very little money. Audi uses the 1.8T in the TT Roadster with a different chip. It produces 225 HP and is still covered under the full factory warranty. I have read of people getting up to 400 HP out of a 1.8T engine but I would never even consider going that high.
My other car is an Infiniti which is also fun to drive, but the Passat is a bargain! I feel very connected to the Passat when driving, the response is excellent, and all the details well thought out.
I read a review that said Honda benchmarked the Passat with the new Accord, but fell short...and the next generation Passat will be out in late 04'. It will be even more refined, another benchmark!
The Passat may be your "benchmark" but the Accord is widely considered the benchmark of the mid-size family sedan class. It manages to be efficient, affordable, fun-to-drive, reliable, and comfortable all at the same time. Kind of a cross between a Camry (which is a solid, dependable car) and the Passat (which has more personality).
"Consumers Most Wanted" midsize sedan under $30k, VW Passat.
They also said:
"Actually, the Accord keeps pace with the segment's fastest sedans in terms of straight-line acceleration, but when it comes to outright handling prowess, the Passat, Altima and new Mazda 6 have it beat".
They also said:
"Overall, only the current Camry equals the Accord in terms of high-quality materials, but the Passat still beats them both for pure "premium-ness."
and:
"There have even been industry trade stories reporting that Honda used Volkswagen's Passat as inspiration on how to give the company's volume sedan an appealing aura that goes beyond pure logic.
A week spent driving the 2003 Accord confirmed two things: The Passat is still the segment benchmark in terms of ergonomic design, interior roominess and overall ride quality; and it still won't derail Passat intenders."
In a comparison test in the same magazine, the Accord was awarded first place to the Passat's third place. In describing the Accord, they said:
"If superiority in the mid-size family sedan market is about sweeping excellence --- and we think it is --- then the Accord has come through again."
And fit and finish gets a 10 to the Passat's 9, and both cars get a 9 in ergonomics and ride.
While over at Road and Track, the Passat GLX was bottom-rated (5th place) to the Accord EX V6's first place. The Accord beat the Passat in steering and handling, and ergonomics, and driving excitement.
About the Passat, they said, "It's a strange world we live in; the Accord feels like a German car, and the Passat doesn't."
3 of 5 editors chose the Accord as the car they'd pick personally, as compared to 1 for the Passat.
And finally, Consumer Reports picked the Accord EX over the Passat as the best 4-cylinder family sedan.
Edmunds is one of the few lukewarm reviews of the Accord... obviously, C&D and R&T have a much higher opinion of it. And a somewhat lower opinion of the Passat.
Competition is great, the customer get's all the benefits!
Although Honda used the Passat as a guideline for certain things (suspension tuning, mostly), it's still very clearly an Accord. According to most of the press, it didn't really have much if any catching up to do.
It will be interesting to see how the Passat's upscale image and performance will weather the switch from a chassis shared with the Audi A6 to one shared with the Jetta. The Passat had generally been considered to be a major underachiever until the last generation, and much of its appeal was the result of being perceived as a "more affordable Audi". When this changes, will the Passat revert to being the also-ran that it was before on a VW based chassis? As I said, it will be interesting.
"A week spent driving the 2003 Accord confirmed two things: The Passat is still the segment benchmark in terms of ergonomic design, interior roominess and overall ride quality; and it still won't derail Passat intenders."
when the review actually said:
"A week spent driving the 2003 Accord confirmed two things: It's still the segment benchmark in terms of ergonomic design, interior roominess and overall ride quality; and it still won't derail Passat intenders."
If you're going to use quotes, please double check to make sure they're accurate.
"For 2003 Honda has suggested a new direction for the Accord. The company tells us the car is now more "passionate" and "emotional." Its styling and demeanor are supposed to capture the spirit of a cheetah. There have even been industry trade stories reporting that Honda used Volkswagen's Passat as inspiration on how to give the company's volume sedan an appealing aura that goes beyond pure logic.
A week spent driving the 2003 Accord confirmed two things: It's still the segment benchmark in terms of ergonomic design, interior roominess and overall ride quality; and it still won't derail Passat intenders."
I believe the "It" they were referring to is the "inspiration", the Passat, as still being the benchmark, not the Honda.
The Passat has not done well in recent reviews against the Accord. CR placed the Accord first, Car and Driver placed the Accord first, and MT placed the car first.
" I'm sure if they had design as striking as VW , Audi, Nissan and Infiniti, they would sell a lot more cars."
Honda sells 400,000 Accords vs. only 100,000 Passats sold. In fact Honda sells more Accords than the Altima, the Passat, and the Jetta combined. So maybe VW needs to concentrate on the quality of their cars instead of the appearance. I would rather have a ugly car that's reliable and fun-to-drive than a pretty car with a "German feel" that stays in the shop.
"The Passat has not done well in recent reviews" is a distortion of the facts. The results have been marginal and extremely close in all of the reviews, with the Pasaat still preferred in some reviews, for example Edmunds.
You said:
"I would rather have a ugly car that's reliable and fun-to-drive than a pretty car with a "German feel" that stays in the shop."
On the flip side:
I would rather have a great design that also has the fun-to-drive German feel.
Reliablility of my Passat is TBD because it's only 9 months old, and it's been one of the best cars I've ever owned, and I've owned a lot of performance/enthusiast cars.