Honda Accord vs Toyota Camry

midnightcowboy

Joe122 said:

"Draw your own conclusion."

.. That maybe Peterpan is an Engineering Manager for Toyota ?

Cruis'n on Rattle Free in 6th : Honda ,

MidCow

jimex

Based on this "engineering manager's" post, I think we should all sell our sputtering, hard to control, rattling rat traps and rush out and buy a Toyota...NOT.

>"Toyota is about 4 times bigger than Honda and can produce cars to custom orders with various options on their lines, whereas Honda can only produce limited number of standard models. That is a huge difference in terms of management,. controls and logistics to make it happen".

Interesting view....I look at it as Honda has simplified the car buying experience by loading up their respective trim lines, and then adding a few options, leather, navi., etc., while Toyota "can produce cars to custom orders". Yeah, just ask the people who bought Avalon's how the 4 - 6 week waiting period is....oh and be careful when you open up the glove compartment in a new Avi. unless you're wearing your shin guards....yup great engineering.

typesix

DIYers like me know what peterpan is saying about Honda engine compartments as compared to Toyotas. Toyota trys to make servicing easier (except with the location of the 2.4l 4 cyl oil filter) while Honda crams the engine in the bay.

midnightcowboy

Typesix said:

"Toyota trys to make servicing easier (except with the location of the 2.4l 4 cyl oil filter) while Honda crams the engine in the bay. "

Honda may cram the engine bay, but I have always found the user maintenance easy to perform and service easy to access in a Honda.

Cruis'n in 6th :shades: ,

MidCow

typesix

The secretary at work has both an Accord(spouse) and Camry(hers) and whenever either one has to have service done by the same local mechanic, the Honda is always more expensive labor wise because of poor accesibility. She and hubby would never buy a Honda again because of that, despite better handling.

joe122

I noticed this post in a Camry forum. We must presume that it is an example of the superior engineering referred to above:

#1 of 6 Toyota Camry LE 2005 Dealer must replace engine by chopper8849 Dec 27, 2004 (3:18 pm)
| E-mail Msg

I purchased a 2005 Camry LE Dec. 15th 2004 and noticed a loud pinging noise while idling. I took car in to dealer to have it checked. Their answer was it has a bad engine which needs to be replaced. This is unacceptable to me as it has ruined the "new car experience". I am curious if anyone is aware of this problem on other 2005 Camrys. I also would like to know if I could request a new vehicle from Toyota.

midnightcowboy

typesix,

You may be right. But I can tell you that Lexus service is the most expensive I have ever seen and Lexus is an upgraded Toyota. But you get free Capacino while you wait and free loaner cars.

I have a Toyota Avalon ( very inexpensive) ES300 (expensive) IS300 (expensive) Honda (too soon to tell, but used to have Acura that I got maintenance done at Honda because it was inexpensive).

All I can tell you is that performance wise, relability wise, insurance costwise and mileagewise ( 20/30 EPA on regular) the Accord 6-speed ( manual was a requirement) the Accord ws a better choice for me than a Camry 4cylinder 5-speed
Camry handling is almost Buick-like ( very wallowy boaty floaty bad). Honda's handling is good but not near the level of an IS300 or German cars.

I am curious Honda's and Toyota's require very little mainteance and are very reliable. I would imagine that an independent mechanic wouldn't have to work on either very often, so maybe tighness in the engine compartment is a moot point. Maybe that is why Lexus or BMW service cost so much, there is no room in a Lexus engine compartment and everything is covered up.

YMMV cruis'n in 6th :shades: ,

MidCow

P.S. Remember the Chevrolet V8 Monza ? The engine was so big that you had to drop the engine to change the plugs. And that was back in the carburated days when you had to change points and plugs every 10,000 miles or sooner

typesix

Yes, remember V8 Monza, heard that because of the V8, users had very poor traction in snow because of all that weight up front.

lmacmil

The typical dealer makes more on service than on car sales. Many dealers will recommend service far exceeding the manufacturer's recommendation. My son's first 30K service quote on a Matrix was over $600 which is outrageous even for a dealer. At least $300 of that were items that were mentioned nowhere in the owner's manual, much less at a 30K odometer reading.

I haven't compared the underhood appearance of the Accord or Camry so I can't comment on that.

boomchek

Here's my quick opinion on both. I tell all my customers that compare Accords (which I sell) and Camrys, (or should it be Camries :P ) this main point. In my opinion both vehicles are tops in reliability, resale, and quality. Both are great mid size sedans, and both are comparably priced. The main difference I find between the two is that Toyotas in general (Camry, Corolla, Sienna etc.) are much softer cars with cushier ride and softer suspensions and that's why a lot of older folks like them. Hondas in general have a sportier feel to them, so the ride may not be as soft, but all Hondas roll less while cornering, the steering input is much more precise, and has overall better handling. So what it comes down to is the styling and what kind of driving you like to do.

Another fact though: Toyota extended wearranties generally cost more than Honda extended warranties which raises this issue: do Toyota parts cost more, or is Toyota anticipating high repair costs and therefore prices their warranty as such.

Something to think about.

alpha01

Honda is willing to accept lower profit margins on their extended warranty sales than is Toyota.

Something else to think about.

~alpha

1000hours

This is an old message but I couldn't let this one get by w/o remarking....

Accord buyers are more likely to be driving enthusiasts... not a race car driver, but someone who enjoys actually 'driving' a car. Accord buyers typically have a younger state of mind that Camry buyers... They also care about their cars more and are willing to work on them themselves when needed. Accord buyer are typically more passionate about cars that the typical Camry buyer.

Camry buyers are people who want to float on a cloud to their destination... They don't hate driving, they don't like driving... they just need to drive a car. So they choose a reliable and cushy Camry. Camry buyers are not the kind of people who surf the internet keeping up on every latest little bit of new news on the automotive scene. A Camry buyer is someone who views the purchase of their car as the purchase of a new household appliance... something that's needed but nothing to get passionate about.

Sure these are generalities but all in all pretty much on the mark.

Personally I think that the Camry was a great car until the 1997 models came out. The 97's were slower and handled worse than the previous model it replaced. Toyota has never since recovered the fun to drive aspect that the Camry once had... They chose to leave that to Honda, and that is why I buy Honda. Honda builds a hell of a car for a great price with the Accord. I have been driving Honda cars since 1998 and have not one time ever had one problem other than an ignition switch that went bad in a 1986 CRX (12 years old at the time it happened).

Camry's on the hand... I know people who own them and I've seen the little problems that creep up every now and then. Doors that need to be slammed in order to fully close. Check engine lights that don't turn off... Seatbelt buckles that break... flat tires that can't be fixed by the driver because the wheel is rusted onto the car (in 2002 Camry recently!).

Camry buyers don't put these things up on these kinds of message boards in the numbers that Accord buyers do because Camry buyers have no passion for driving.
.

fredvh

Don't forget that the Toyota Camry has a longer warranty when comparing the two. Of course, one hopes that neither will need repair work.

bklynguy

Maybe Toyota will attract more younger buyers (under 50) with the next generation Camry. We were ready to buy another Camry but after renting a LE4, we changed our #1 choice to the Accord EX from a Camry XLE. The only thing holding us up now is the introduction of the 2006 Accord.

fredvh

What were your reasons for changing your #1 choice to the Accord?

210delray

Don't you think you guys are overgeneralizing just a bit on the differences between Camry and Accord (and Toyota and Honda)? Maybe Pete resides in Neverland; I don't know about 1000 hours.

The cars aren't really all that different, and both are very good.

alpha01

Definitely agree on the over generalizations.

~alpha

erieboy

I don't mean to cover old ground, but I just entered the forum. For what it is worth, I test drove the Solara SE and Accord EX coupes, both with 4 cylinders, automatics, and cloth seats, on the same warm afternoon last week. Both are excellent in terms of quality and reliability, even though some recent rankings (Consumer Reports) give Toyota a decided edge. Based on some reviews I have read, I was concerned about the Solara's handling, but I found it to be excellent -- in fact, a fun car to drive. On the other hand, I was disappointed with the Accord's. Perhaps my expectations were higher, but it didn't do anything for me -- I might as well have been driving the sedan and the steering felt very, very light. I didn't notice any difference in acceleration. My kids are graduating and leaving home, so I'm really looking for a coupe for myself, and I've owned three Hondas and never owned a Toyota, but in my opinion the Solara is the winner, hands-down. It looks stunning whereas the Accord is not even close to being a head-turner. The Accord's interior is fairly utilitarian and nicely done, but the Solara's interior is outstanding and it really does seem like a Lexus in disguise. Based on value alone, I'm buying the Solara. All of the "driver's car / rider's car" debate seems pretty moot to me, because neither car is a hot rod or a luxo-boat. Further, at my age I'm pretty secure about my self-image and couldn't care less whether some consider the Solara a "woman's car." Oh, yes ... I would buy the Accord if the Solara plant burned down, but barring that, I'm paying a visit to my Toyota dealer!

alpha01

Solara SE or the SE Sport.... that would account for why you found the Solara a bit more sporting, as it is set more firmly than the SE and SLE.

~alpha

erieboy

Just the regular SE -- which, incidentally, is FAR from a stripped base-level offering. I also concur with earlier postings which offer the opinion that, at the end of the day, both the Solara and the Accord are far more similar than different. Both are sophisticated from an engineering standpoint, well built, good looking, comfortable, reasonably fun to drive, easy on gas, and affordable excellent values. If all you want is a balance of everything in a car, either would make you happy.

1000hours

Looks like Toyota may be going back to way Camrys used to be made before the 1997's came out, i.e. rather appealing looking. The current Camry is just the ugliest car short of the Echo that Toyota has ever produced... It is an UGLY car that rides like a couch on wheels... cushy and comfy.

Since Toyota is now going to the sporty (edgier?) looking Camry for 2007 that means that Honda is going follow suit with the 2008 Accord but only more so. Since Honda has always kept the Accord ahead of the Camry in the sportiness department (yes it is a 'family car') and the next generation Camry is actually a sporty looking car, then I have high hopes for the 2008 Accord.

Either Accord and Camry are trading roles and the Accord is going to become a cushy slow slane cruiser while the Camry takes on the sport factor, or the Accord is going to blow the Camry away in the Fall of 2007 when it is finally revealed.

yanker

Agreed. I don't know where in Canada you are from. but in upstate new York we have some very bumpy roads. Even those built a year or two ago are chopped by the winter weather. My Accord is driving me nuts with the poor ride. I take a Camry as I had a 96 for seven years. The good features of the Accord are excellent gas mileage, good service, quick steering and very quick pickup. Accessories are good also heated seats, sunroof etc. Compared to a Camry though they need a full spare, lights on feature split fold down seat and better brakes on yahoo 18 out of 80 evaluations for the 05 Accord complained about brakes

jim1975

I was not sure if I should get Camry or Accord. I was planning to buy 4 cyl. Camry standard. At the last moment I have decided for Accord 4 cyl. Value pack.
I think that if you chose Camry you will not make a mistake. I can tell you why did I decide for the Accord.

-less expensive than Camry (got brand new '05 Accord for $16,400)
-side and curtain airbags,
-engine immobilizer (Camry's don't have)
-better steering and handling,
-better seating comfort (at least for me),
-it has a bit better resell value.

Cons.
With this model you don’t get power locks (that was a tough one),
doesn't have power mirrors nor cruise control (don't care) - I traded this for side/curtain airbags and engine immobilizer.

It has automatic trans. and AC same like Camry. If you are older person Camry is just fine but if you are young or still feel young Accord will suit you better, lol.

Good luck with your purchase.

ctalk

You must have got the DX version of the Accord.. i think the LX is a better deal rather than a DX because it comes with Power locks, Cruise Control, Map Lights, a better audio system (more speakers).. and much more.. i fine the DX a little to stripped of features to me. For the Camry the Really basic model is not to stripped of features, but is more than the DX accord. It is almost equal to the Accord LX.

jim1975

You are right. LX is much better equiped than DX. This value Accord is basically DX with AC. They had LX for $19,000 before fees and tax. That was a little bit to expensive for me (sound like a personal problem, loll). I payed $16,400 and I didn't want to spend additional $2,600 for nicely equiped LX Accord. And yes, you are right standard Camry is almost as equiped as LX Accord (only side airbags are missing). I couldn't find standard Camry with side airbags. I would have to buy LE Camry and get an option with side airbags which would cost around $18,000 - $18,600 before taxes right now in Colorado. It is hard to say what is better. One has to choose what he/she cares about and what one wants to spend his money on.

ctalk

If you look at all the new family sedans coming out they are all coming with standard Side Curtain airbags. I dont think its worth it to get the optional side curtain airbags, in other words i dont think the Camry is worth the money espcially with the SE V6 which does not come with optional side curtain airbags (if you read the ratings with out side airbags, passengers have a much higher chance of getting a serious injury). Maybe next years model of the Camry will come with Side Curtain Airbags (but it is still not worth it because the new 2007 Camry is coming out and it looks good to me ) And i can almost guarantee the new Camry (2007) will come with standard Side Curtain Airbags on every model.

maxamillion1

It won't be any better than a Camry because the DX VP will be harder to sell than the LX, EX, EXV6 Accord models.

alpha01

The steering may have felt better on the Accord DX VP than in the Camry, which is undoubtedly overly light, but I'm hard pressed to believe that the Accord DX would negotiate evasive manuvers better than the Camry Standard- the Accord DX has NO REAR STABILIZER bar, which leads to a very happy tail in my experience. (Although its not a direct comparison, witness the 98 Corolla issue in Consumer Reports... those tested that did not have the stabilizer bar had worse than average handling, and CR didnt recommend them. Those with, were fine. This lead Toyota to making the stabilizer bar standard on all '99s. However, CR has never tested a non-stabilizer bar Accord or Civic, as they dont represent many sales).

Just food for thought.

Adding optional side curtains to the Camry keeps pricing similar to that of the Accords, which have them standard. I do agree that they should be standard on EVERY Camry, but your argument doesnt make much sense, or at least not the way you've written it. Also, the Camry offers VSC, which the Accord doesnt and THAT, so far, has been shown to reduce accident potential substantially.

~alpha

bklynguy

We just preferred the better steering, crisp handling, better-looking interior of the Accord. The extra power of the V6 & smoother transmission doesn't hurt either. We didn't like it that if you get the Navi system on the Camry, you can't have a CD changer in the dash. We're just waiting now for the icing on the cake (MY06): VSA, LED taillamps, MP3 standard ?, new rear end, chrome grille, etc.

jim1975

Honda Accord DOES HAVE a rear stabilizer bar.
Wishbone front suspension independent with stabilizer bar and coil springs , multi-link rear suspension independent with stabilizer bar and coil springs

garandman

Being an engineering manager, I can say that opening up the hood of the Accord and you find wires, hoses, ducts, plastic parts and what nots... running all over the engine bay in random fashion, whereas the Camry's engine bay is laid out very neatly and logically.

Honda products appear to use about twice the fastening hardware therefore must be twice as intensive in their labor content.

To me that means Toyota employs far more talented engineers and spends a lot more time and efforts into the research, development, engineering, design, testing and production of their cars.

First, if you are going to claim expertise as an engineering manager, it would be helpful to know what type of engineering, and what industry.

You can read several different books published by MIT about the world automotive industry and the relative labor content of the manufacturers; the amount of factor floor space required per car; and their product development times. They also compare the ability of some manufacturers to make a profit at production volumes half that of competitors. No industry figures, anywhere, support your opinion.

Car & Driver has selected the Honda Accord as the best family sedan in 18 of 24 years. I think folks who car a little more about driving performance and feedback refer the Accord - especially the V6. Older, more sedate or less demanding drivers are far more likely to be concerned about interior materials than vehicle performance. It's not clear they even cros-shop the same vehicles.

chuckf1

Hey, hey, hey---let's not have any age discrimination here----I'm an "older" driver (49), and I want performance in my cars---which is why I really like my new Accord.

bamacar

NOT on the DX or VP though.

ctalk

In GENERAL older people buy the Camry...but there are many older aged people who buy the Accord... its not exactly a performance car but it is definetly a car that gives more feed back and driving performace vs. the Camry.

mcgirl0730

I'm almost 30 and I drive a Camry. I like its styling better than the Accord sedan. Although I like the Accord coupe's styling better than the Solara. But that's not practical for me because I'm having a baby so my best bet was the Camry.

ctalk

I didn't mean to say that no young people buy the camry because there are a lot of young people buying the Camry. I bought an Accord because i prefer a car with more feedback, and i prefered the interior better. The Camry is actually great for the pot hole filled roads i drive on, i kind of regret buying the Accord because of its firmer suspension.

alpha01

The Accord DX/VP DOES NOT have a rear stabilizer bar.

~alpha

210delray

I really don't think there's all that much difference between the Accord and Camry, model for model, and engine for engine. They're more alike then similar, IMHO, and both are fine cars. However, I haven't spent much seat time in the current generation Accord, so maybe I need more experience.

anonymousposts

3 versions of this generation Accord and they have all been great. At no time during my purchase of the above Accords did I consider a Camry. Out of curiousity I did go on a test drive when the 02's were first released but I was not impressed. The Camry is a VERY nice car. However, its not for everyone. Just as the Accord is a VERY nice car that's not for everyone.

Alpha: Although, theoretically, side curtains are available as an option on the lower-level Camrys it seems like it's not a very popular option and is hard to come across in some parts of the country. I might be mistaken because I have spent very little time researching availability of different Camry option packages.

richards38

Hey, hey, hey, even more--I'm 66 and picked the '04 Accord EX-L sedan because it's a bit sportier than the Camry and has a tighter ride and brake feel.

The Camry is a good car but rides too much like older American cars. The interior of the '03 Camry I test drove was drab compared with the Accord IMO.........Richard

chuckf1

Right on Richard----let's not let these young whippersnappers force us to sit in rocking chairs and drive Camrys!

mcgirl0730

What's up with people saying the Camry is only for older people? Well I do admit that 95% of the Camrys I've seen are driven by older people. But I don't really care. I like it. I guess my taste is the same as the older people's.

lmacmil

"What's up with people saying the Camry is only for older people?"

According to JD Power, the median age of a Camry buyer is 59 vs. 50 for the Accord. So clearly, they both appeal to middle aged folks with the Accord having slightly more appeal to a younger crowd.

I'm over 50 and just leased a Camry SE-V6 which is the only model I would consider. I could have been just as happy with the Accord but I wanted stability control and the Accord didn't offer it. 90% of my driving is commuting to work or jaunts on the interstate so the Accord's supposedly sportier nature really didn't mean much for my driving.

fredvh

Why was the SE the only model you considered? Did you drive the LE or XLE?

ctalk

Well i test drove a LE, SE and XLE i found the SE is the best becuase of its slightly sportier ride/look and engine power. I felt the SE (V6 model) had good pickup. If you intend to buy a Camry i think you should test drive a SE and a LE/XLE, to see which is best for you.

lmacmil

"Why was the SE the only model you considered? Did you drive the LE or XLE?"

I wanted the 3.3 liter engine and 17" wheels plus the somewhat sportier appearance of the SE. What I gave up, vs the XLE, was auto climate control and a power passenger seat plus a couple of other minor convenience features.

I did not drive the XLE but I had rented a couple of LEs and they were just fine. The SE just had all the features I was looking for.

alpha01

Yes, you are mistaken, sort of. I can speak only for my region (Greater NY), but I'd say about 3 in 4 Camry LE 4s have side curtains. I've NEVER seen a Camry Standard with side curtains, though, in this region.

~alpha

anonymousposts

searching for a Camry LE with side curtain airbags and didn't come up with that many in my area. It's been a while though. If they are going to offer them as a $200-$300 option they should just go ahead and make them standard on all Camrys.

ctalk

I agree they should just put it standard on the Camry, (Accord and Sonata) have already done it.

I noticed most of the Camry models that actually do have Side Curtain Airbags are XLE's (in my area).

maxamillion1

...we don't have many equipped that way in our region (SET)

But that's no surprise here for us..since the SET region has its on way of doing things...