Older Honda Accords

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Comments

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    State Farm was giving me a (very small)discount on our insurance because our cars had ABS.

    They no longer do this. Their studies indicated that ABS had not reduced the number of accidents or claims.

    And, I also have some customers who dislike ABS because of longer stopping distances on dry pavement.
  • outrunoutrun Member Posts: 539
    Maybe I've been out of the loop, but I don't know of any cars (BUT I'M NOT SAYING THAT THERE ISN'T TO SATISFY G35's INTERPRETATION) that have side curtain airbags that don't have a strong safety cage to go along with it.

    -Craig
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Never say there is no such thing as anything. I'm sure there is a car with such a combination out there.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Whatever.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    How does ABS create longer stopping distances on dry pavement? Your customers are stupid- they would prefer to lock their wheels and lose steering control? Greeeeeat.

    I think too many are miseducated about the purpose of ABS. Maybe dealers should be responsible for emphasizing the fact that ABS was designed to maintain steering control in severe braking situations.
    whatever the case, I drive in enough rain and snow and slick roads to have had ABS engage many times in the past 4 years. Even if it only ACTUALLY saved my [non-permissible content removed] in 5% of those situations, I still find it invaluable.

    Honda did right by making it standard on even the DX Accords with the redesign, and they should be commended. Obviously, there arent THAT many consumers who are so ANTI-ABS that they wont buy the product- the Accord may very well top the Camry as best selling car this year.

    ~alpha
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    But only when it's activated. I've never braked on dry pavement where I would activatte ABS. Especially not enough where the difference would be severe enough for me to worry about it. Some people don't wear seatbelts because "you can't get out if you have a crash and the car catches fire". You can't please everyone.
  • billiam70billiam70 Member Posts: 54
    I love ABS and will never buy a car without them again. They are so worth the money to me. And as far as dry stopping distances are concerned, I think it may depend on the car. I've read quite a few reviews of cars without ABS where it was mentioned that the car may have done better in stopping distance if it were ABS equipped, and that included dry. Probably a non-ABS equipped car could end up taking longer to stop if the driver has to try to not lock up the brakes and maintain control. And once the brakes are locked, it's not easy to maintain control when you're in a skid.
  • rleongrleong Member Posts: 41
    I have a 2003 Accord with the I4 engine. I took the car into the dealer about this problem today. The vibration is worst when the ac is on and the car is idling at a full stop.

    They told me this is normal for the Accord with the 2.4 engine. We also looked at a new Accord on their lot and it was the same. After owning 86', 92', 98', 01' Civic, with NO vibration in the steering wheel I was a bit disappointed with our Accord. I guess we will have to live with it.

    I asked the dealer to check for TSB, but couldn't find anything.

    I also have a 2000 Forester with 2.5 liter 4-cylinder and it has no vibration problem. I know my old Civics and the Forester have different engines, but the vibration is not acceptable this this type of vehicle.
  • bburton1bburton1 Member Posts: 395
    What is the rpm when the steering wheel vibrates. Have a 97 I4 and it vibrates a bit when really cold-engine is running rich then-but none when warm. Suspect your idle rpm when warm maybe a bit low.

    Isn't it amazing how some techs can't see the same problems you can-particularly on warranty issues.
  • cds12cds12 Member Posts: 139
    I am going to purchase a used 2002 Accord through a private party. Most of the 3 yr/36 mile warranty is left on the car.

    Does the warranty automatically transfer with the title change or do I need to notify Honda of the ownership change to be covered by the warranty?

    Thanks
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    You can call Honda and notify them that you are the new owner. I don't think that will matter with the warranty coverage though. It will just let them know where to send recall notices if needed.
  • crv16crv16 Member Posts: 205
    I've read in car magazines that ABS does in fact increase stopping distances, but only for people who have skills of a race car driver. For the other 95% of us, it's a benefit.
  • tunefultuneful Member Posts: 35
    Hi everyone! I posted a query about this (#9210) on 02/24.
    I will be taking a 2nd test-drive of the 03 Accord (LX 4 cyl) over the weekend and will update you.
    Interesting--I test-drove a Subaru Impreza WRX wagon yesterday and felt that it vibrated a lot as well. Is that a Japanese make characteristic? I do 80% of my driving in stop-and-go city traffic, so I am stopped a LOT. The vibration is not only in the wheel but throughout the car, I did not like the "buzzing" on my body. I think it would be fatiguing.
    When I got back and mentioned it, the salesman said, "It's because (1) it's a new car and (2) it's cold." Is he right? Posters have mentioned maybe looking at V6 engines instead, could that make a difference? I'm sure there are folks who don't notice this at all or aren't bothered by it, but I have a medical problem that is bothered by it. Is my only hope something like a Buick? :-D Actually I had a Buick Regal many years ago, cherry red, stolen and never recovered... sniff...
  • outrunoutrun Member Posts: 539
    That's true, and makes sense if you think about it. A truly skilled driver will be able to modulate the brakes to the point of lockup, and keep it there. The fastest way to stop is keep the vehicle at the verge of lockup.

    Most ABS systems would kick in at that point and quickly pump the brakes. Since it's action is against the optimal stopping method, braking distances are increased (slightly).

    But this is for only the most skilled "race car" drivers within a controlled environment. Throw in potholes, sand, etc. and all bets are off.

    -Craig
  • mikek37mikek37 Member Posts: 411
    Good point outrun, unless I decide to go off roading then abs is probably for the best.
  • mikek37mikek37 Member Posts: 411
    What about a nice caddy, its like riding on a couch with wheels.lol
  • jud95accordjud95accord Member Posts: 58
    I have a 03 V6 sedan and have no vibration problems. The air conditioning works well - I got the car in Sept. - so will have to report back in June when 100 degree temps kick in down here in Houston! I just sold my 95 Accord EX and had excellent air conditioning also - still worked great after 8 years.
  • tunefultuneful Member Posts: 35
    LOL!
    As a matter of fact Caddy also crossed my mind! No docks around here big enough, though. I'd have to go about an hour away to Annapolis.
  • mikek37mikek37 Member Posts: 411
    Those things ride like a boat, you can run over small animals and not even notice.
  • atlantabennyatlantabenny Member Posts: 735
    Recently I met a person whose medical condition made him hypersensitive to what he calls the "harmonic frequencies" of a vehicle. If the vehicle had "bad frequencies," he'd be sick after driving 15 to 20 minutes.

    Rear-wheel drive, FWD, American, Japanese/Lexus, 4-cyl, 6-cyl, 8-cyl - all except a standard delivery van (!) made him feel bad.

    Which leads me to believe that 1) very few cars, and probably expensive at that, can answer the need, and 2) with a regular car, a combination of various "vibration management" measures might work, such as a quiet/serene vehicle to start with (hate to say it - Camry ?), smooth-riding tires, and - how about an electronic noise-cancelling device (hooks up to car's audio system to create white or counter-acting noise).
  • akal50akal50 Member Posts: 112
    jud95Accord, what color did you get? I also have to put up with 100+ degree summers. I'm wondering how much of a difference the color makes. I guess I'm thinking that after 100 degrees, it won't help much to get a white car as opposed to a black car. Or am I wrong? I have a black car and I hate it during the summer. Is white really that much better or should I just get whatever color I want?
  • rajohnson1rajohnson1 Member Posts: 12
    I'm looking for a used Accord, and I have found some 2001 models that are called "Value Package". Can someone tell me what this is? Is it more like an EX or an LX?
  • bburton1bburton1 Member Posts: 395
    If you like being parbroiled-get a black car for tropical climates. Get tinted windows-use a sun shade in your windshield and it will help.
  • billiam70billiam70 Member Posts: 54
    Value Package is a DX with extra options to make it closer to an LX, like air conditioning. The Special Edition is an LX with Alloy Wheels and Sunroof.
  • mikek37mikek37 Member Posts: 411
    Taking a quick poll... how many 2003 Accord V6 owners run premium vs regular in their cars. I have , since december , been running 87 regular, but decided to give the 93 octane a try. I was quite surprised how much more oommpphh I had off the line after switching to premium.
  • ray_h71ray_h71 Member Posts: 212
    "I was quite surprised how much more oommpphh I had off the line after switching to premium."

    It's probably NOT your imagination. Honda (and many other manufacturers') engines have "knock" sensors. Think of them as microphone-like devices screwed into the engine block. Their output goes to the engine management computer. When the sharp noise of engine pinging is first detected by the computer, it retards spark advance to compensate. That elliminates pinging before you ever hear it and the engine will operate safely even on regular grade gasoline. (If you check the engine specifications, compression ratios are in the high nines to mid tens - heretofore ALWAYS premium gasoline turf) The knock sensors/engine management computers algorithms WILL, however, always set spark advance to the farthest advance consistent with elliminating pinging, though. Therefore, if you fill the tank with unleaded premium, the spark advance will be advanced as much as possible, always consistent with holding pinging in check. This further spark advance possible with unleaded premium will result in a noticeable difference in engine power. Your engine is effectively constantly tuning itself according to fuel quality, ambient conditions, and driving habits. Enjoy the extra power from unleaded premium! (as long as you don't mind the extra 20 cents a gallon or so...)
  • mikek37mikek37 Member Posts: 411
    Thanks for that interesting post . I had a general understanding of compression ratios and octane/knock sensor, but you cleared it up for me.
  • jud95accordjud95accord Member Posts: 58
    I have the Silver with the black leather. I did get my windows tinted which will really help this summer. My husband has a black 02 Accord coupe with the black or dark gray leather interior. We got our cars at the end of the summer so I am not sure how they will compare after a long hot summer. The main difference between the two right now is that mine usually looks clean and his always looks dirty. The 03 sedan with the black leather and silver accents is a great combo so that might influence your exterior color choice. Just my opinion! Recently, I have had two people stop me in parking lots and compliment me on the new Accord styling. Judy
  • peter7777peter7777 Member Posts: 24
    I just read a Honda press release from last August about a system that delivers live data such as current traffic and weather conditions on the Accord's navigation screen. The source of the data is the owner's cell phone. Apparently the system is currently available for 2003 Accords in Japan and is known as "Inter-Navi".

    http://world.honda.com/news/2002/4020829.html

    Does anyone know if Honda intends to offer this service in the US anytime soon? It sounds like one of the first systems to integrate the power of the Internet with the Navi system's LCD display. The article indicates that the user can use Inter-navi to acquire and display images, E-mail, weather, and variety of other information.

    Since I never travel on roads with which I'm unfamiliar, it's a bit hard to justify the Navi System based upon voice control of the radio, CD, and HVAC. If however some Internet sites and E-mail were accessible within the next couple of years the Navi System would become a good deal more valuable.
  • s852s852 Member Posts: 1,051
    ABS can control the brakes separately at individual wheels for maximum stopping without skidding. This cannot be done without ABS, no matter how skilled the driver is.
    There are some scenarios where you might be able to stop in a shorter distance by skidding without ABS (such as on loose snow or gravel), but on dry pavement, I don't see it happening. There is no way to know exactly what the edge of lockup is without ABS. If you practiced with the car dozens of times, you might get a general idea on that stretch of road, but you cannot be sure. Either you aren't pressing hard enough or you press a little too hard and you skid.
    Anything is POSSIBLE. There are scenarious where you MIGHT be better off without seatbelts in a crash (such as being thrown free of a 2003 Honda Accord that was about to explode into flames).
  • tracguytracguy Member Posts: 28
    I test drove a 2003 4 cyl Accord navi and felt a definite vibration in the steering wheel. The sales manager new I was looking at other brands with 6 cyls and said I should drive the Accord 6cyl first. He said it was a completely different car. He was right, the 6 cyl is extremely smooth and and vibration free. Straight 4 cyls inherently generate more vibration than v engines, even with balance shafts.
  • according2meaccording2me Member Posts: 236
    happen with most larger I-4 engines,not just the Japanese brands. Even with balance shafts and modern engine mounts, engines larger than 2.0 liters seem to exhibit this trait.

    The one exception I've heard is the Camry, which also has a 2.4L 4cyl now. This is not first hand info, because I have never owned a Toyota. I just noticed in reading other threads that this complaint never seems to come up with this vehicle. Maybe you should give it a drive.
    I've heard others state that you do give up some handling for the comfort, but you should decide this for yourself.

    The people who notice this vibration the most are those stepping up from smaller cars with smaller displacement 4's (under 2.0L) and those stepping down from V6's and V8's.

    I've owned quite a few large 4's,(some Honda, some not) and all have had vibration to some extent when equipped with automatic trans and idling at a stop with the AC on.

    But as soon as that light changes and RPMs rise, the Accords 4's feel like "butta" and handle very nimbly. At interstate speeds you can hardly hear them. Good luck with your choice.

    mike1qaz
  • jmessjmess Member Posts: 677
    I just finished installing the Honda cargo net in the back of a 03 4dr. The net cost $29 from http://handa-accessories.com/ but it took me two hours to install it. They couldn't have made it any harder to installed if they tried; I guess they did try because all the specs were metric. The positioning of the hooks to secure the net are not very well thought out. The install requires removing all the trunk floor and side panels along with drilling holes. It hard to believe something so simple and cheap could be so involved to install. I got it done but it wasn't any fun.
  • modredabyssmodredabyss Member Posts: 22
    My last car had a cargo net, and I went down to have the dealer install one in my 03 Accord sedan. They told me that the installation cost is ~$150, which is based on an hour and a half of the mechanics time. Honda did a good job on this car, but they missed the boat on the cargo net.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    made it standard on the EX.
  • s852s852 Member Posts: 1,051
    That's funny. The Honda web site lists the cargo net as an available optional accessory on the Accords all the way through to the EXV6.
    I used to have 1997 Civic LX and I was able to install the cargo net, by popping out a few plastic tabs and inserting the hooks in the same spot. The tabs were kind of difficult to get off, but it wasn't complicated at all and did not require removing anything else such as the trunk floor.
    I wonder why they made it so involved on the new Accord?
  • ian2ian2 Member Posts: 168
    I've noticed the same thing on my mom's 2003 EX-L. Shifting into neutral fixes the problem, so it's just engine loading. The '92 Camry V6 she had before did the same thing. Nothing to be concerned of.
  • s852s852 Member Posts: 1,051
    People say it is always cheaper to lease a car if you like to trade cars frequently, but I am not seeing it.
    Look at a 2003 Honda Accord EXV6 bought for a little over invoice ($24000) plus tax and license (about $2000 in CA) for a total financed amount of about $26000.00 Finance the entire $26,000 for 60 months with zero down at 5% and you have a monthly payment of $490.65 and the loan balance would be $16370.95 after the 24th payment is made, then compare that to the monthly cost of a 24 month lease with $0 down and 15K miles allowed and see which is cheaper. A 2001 EXV6 with 30K miles and in excellent condition easily sells to a private party today for more than than the $16370.95 loan balance you would have on the 2003 Accord in 2 years and I don't see any $0 down 15K mile per year 24 month leases going for under $490.65 including all taxes and fees anywhere.
    So, how would a lease be cheaper even if you want to change cars every 2 years?
  • imyodaddyimyodaddy Member Posts: 20
    I'm not really in the market for a car, but for some reason I stopped by a Honda dealer today. I wanted to look at the Accord. To say I was floored by the car is an understatement. The quality, the looks (I really disagree with the Edmunds review comment about the looks. The editors' taste is in their mouths!:)) and the comfort was outstanding. If the traditional Honda reliability is there, I can't imagine buying another car over this one. I've looked at the Camry, the Passat, and the Altima, and IMHO they are second tier to the Accord.

    Looks like I am going to have to buy one as a commuter car.
  • outrunoutrun Member Posts: 539
    If you want a 5 speed manual and side curtain airbags, you're going to need to look elsewhere (such as the Passat).

    Honda missed the boat on this issue. I don't understand how they could offer curtains only on the EXV6 model. Doesn't make any sense.

    Being a "daddy" myself, safety is my main concern. There are way too many gas guzzling, road hogging SUVs out there. Imagine getting t-boned by one.

    I would love to love the Accord EX-L, 4 cyl, 5 speed manual. I just can't give up curtain airbags, side mirror defrosters, and illuminated steering wheel controls that my '02 Passat 1.8T GLS give me. But I would love that nifty Nav system.

    -Craig
  • akal50akal50 Member Posts: 112
    The Nav System seems like a waste. How hard is it to keep a couple of maps in the car? Now if the Nav System showed traffic, then it would be worth it. To be able to look at a map, see where the traffic jams are, where the construction is, road closures, accidents, etc. I'd gladly pay the extra $2000 for that. But the system now just seems like an expensive toy.

    As for leasing, most people do it for 3 years, not 2. Let's look at two people, one buying and the other leasing. The buyer pays $500 a month for 5 years and keeps the car for an additional 4 years. The other guy leases the car for 3 years for $400 a month. After that, he leases 2 more cars for 3 years each. After 9 years, the buyer spent $30000. The guy who leased spent $43,200 in those same 9 years. This assumes the buyer had no major repairs after the 3 year warranty expired. So from a money standpoint, the guy who leases is losing a lot of money, but he's obviously decided that the benefits are worth the extra money. I like to lease cause you'll always have a car that's relatively new, you can afford to get a much nicer car than you could if you were buying, you never have to worry about you car not being under warranty assuming your lease is the same length, and after the lease is up, you can still buy the car if you want. And if you took really good care of the car and kept the miles low, then the car will be worth more than what you have to pay for it. You could buy it, then sell it, make a profit, and use it as a down payment on the next car.
  • outrunoutrun Member Posts: 539
    We have Nav in our '01 RX300. It's wonderful in "big" cities. For example, I took my wife out for dinner on Valentines day to the Bristol Lounge at the Four Seasons Boston. We live in Ashland, MA (about 30 mins west of Boston).

    Of course I got the MapQuest/MapBlast directions, directions from the Four Seasons web site, etc. just in case all the "Big Dig" crap going on in Boston screwed the Nav up.

    I just plugged in the address, and it took is exactly to the front door of our destination. It does NOT compare to a map, as it warns miles ahead of time of turns, exactly where one is in relation to an intersection, and voice prompts on upcoming landmarks. Maps also don't show where restaurants ("show me all the Indian restaurants in the area"), ATMs, gas stations, etc. are.

    These Nav systems will backfire once you hit "rural" areas or "new developments". They'll take you to within a few miles of your destination, and then say "Sorry. There isn't detailed info of this area. Sucks to be you."

    Maps are good if you want to see "the big picture", as a relatively small 6 inch screen will not give you that. And as a backup to Nav systems in rural or new areas.

    I hear Honda's Nav system is pretty good, as it's been improved since I last looked at it and now inclueds voice recongnition. Our comparison was from an '01 MDX. I preferred the Lexus Nav to that one (easier to control, better graphics, more points of interest, etc).

    -Craig
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    And say 'll bet Honda has it down to a science how many people REALLY care about the side curtain airbags. I'll bet it's around the same number of people that want a 6 speed tranny with the 6 cylinder engine in the sedan. And it doesn't look like they are building that combo either. You can't please everyone and it doesn't make fiscal sense to even try.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Actually they could go a long way to pleasing more people if they changed extra money for a custom ordered car. That way people could get what they want, and the extra money people pay would help to offset the loss of economy of scale. Aren't here are plenty of other markets where Hondas can be custom ordered.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    But there is not a single model of Honda car that isn't built this way. Only factory options are NAV, transmission, and airbags in some models. I like it like that since it helps resale and keeps the overall cost of the car low.
  • outrunoutrun Member Posts: 539
    Why does Honda offer side mirror defrosters for the Canada bound Accords but not even offer it on ANY Accord in the US.

    There goes THAT theory...

    -Craig
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    To be all things to all people! Sears nearly went out of business trying to do that back in the 70's.

    Bottom line...it's a Honda! It's not a Lexus or a Mercedes. People seem to have a lot of "wants" along with their "needs".

    Of course I never thought I would see things like heated seats, nav systems and side curtain air bags either in a Honda.

    They just try to please the masses while keeping the cars affordable.
  • moonkatmoonkat Member Posts: 265
    outrun & akal:
    I had similar concerns about nav and started a thread for portable nav alternative to Accord Nav:
    "03 Accord Nav vs Aftermarket GPS/Nav....?!" at

    daeven "03 Accord Nav vs Aftermarket GPS/Nav....?!" Feb 18, 2003 11:16am

    The huge advantage of nav system whether Honda OEM or the PDA+GPS+Software approach I am taking is "autorouting and rerouting". You can route door to door trips and the system gets you there even if you deviate from the original route (auto rerouting).

    The advantage to the PDA solution is portability, cost and early adoption of new features. In the near future real time traffic info will be figured into the routing-reroute planning. The software I use, Mapopolis, has a teaser about introducing this in first quarter 03:
    http://www.mapopolis.com/traffic-11-18-02.pdf
  • outrunoutrun Member Posts: 539
    I didn't go through that thread, but right off the bat, an advantage of a built-in Nav is that if it looses the signal with the satelites, it still "guesses" where you are based on vehicle speed and steering wheel inputs. A portable GPS only deals with satelites and can only assume how fast or what direction one is going.

    -Craig
  • outrunoutrun Member Posts: 539
    Of course I never thought I would see things like heated seats, nav systems and side curtain air bags either in a Honda.

    Funny. My base model VW has two of the three. And also has heated side mirrors.

    -Craig
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