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Comments
Is a $300 discount the best one can do up here?
I liked Erin's comments at the end:
I'm annoyed that you can only get side curtain airbags on EX V6 models.
plus
To a lesser extent, I'm irritated that you can only get traction control on the V6 models
equals
Given that I would be satisfied with a stripped Passat GL sedan, which has both of the features, my allegiance to VW's family car continues.
-Craig
They also got us lower financing (3.64%!!); I sure they get a cut on this, but it was a nice jesture none the less.
Overall, we got exactly the car we wanted ("J" VIN and all) at a more than fair price, and got the friendliest service we've had just about anywhere. If you ever have a chance to deal with Honda World in Conway, AR, I strongly recommend doing so.
I drive a 2002 GMC Envoy which rides much quieter and smoother than the Alero. I've been very happy with the Envoy, but I would have gotten the Pilot if it was available at the time.
It makes me sick when I think about how little the Alero is worth compared to if I had bought a 2000 Accord at the time.
I bought my 03 Accord LX auto in Sunnyvale, CA for $17,700 one month ago. The price was quoted to me by the dealer's Internet department. The price you were quoted is excellent. If you are serious about buying the car, go for it.
an urgent need, so got it quickly.
My existing cars are a 1990 Taurus SHO, and 1996
Mercury Sable Wagon.
The suspension on the 03 Accord EX-V6 was surprisingly stiff. Sort of a smooth version of my SHO suspension. The steering on the other hand
is very much like my 1996 Sable Wagon - too much power assist. The SHO power assist on the other hand seemed to be perfect for controlling the direction of the wheels in precision. The tires on the Accord may be the primary concern [I knew that from postings on the Accord related boards here]. But the over-powering assist was a little disappointing.
The seats I have found I need to adjust to somewhat. Not quite as naturally comfortable as the SHO and Sable seats. Of course the SHO and Accord seats provide lots of lateral support. The Accord seats provide better thigh support by far.
I have great respect for Honda engineers packaging
capabilities. The Accord provides great interior space with an external package that seems much smaller than one might expect. The rear end seemed ugly to me in pictures and isn't as bad in person. The rear styling is probably the least desirable feature, but I can live. For the price the features are excellent. The stereo required some adjustment to be satisfactory [over-boosted bass and really a bit under-powered], but I will miss my JBL stereo in the SHO [upgraded with Alpine headunit-CD/two amps/6-disk changer].
I expect the fuel efficiency to be very good for my long commute each day. Of course I expect that the Accord will be excellent in reliability, but the Sable wagon has been pretty good for us [note both are first-year models]. The SHO is another matter - great car, but expensive to maintain if you can't work on it yourself.]
Overall I would say the Accord is very good, but frankly if I could have afforded it, I would have gone with something more like the G35. I'll definitely have to consider better tires when they are ready to be replaced. I love the blue color with gray enterior - fantastic - helps make up for the rear end styling. Keep that nice suspension, but fix that over-boosted steering with proper boost and precision!
[The new Acura TL will probably be incredible - especially in the Type-S versions.]
Most cars designed for regular will not gain any extra power by using premium fuel.
This is the opposite of the claims of Toyota and Nissan. With Toyotas etc., you need to use premium to achieve their claimed horsepower ratings. With Honda, you get EXTRA, undocumented power if you choose to pay for premium.
honda uses (someone correct me for terminology) dual stage knock sensors. what this means is that you can put high octane fuel (instead of required minimum of 86 octane) in an accord and get a horsepower boost. many cars don't have dual stage knock sensors and therefore putting high octane fuel in em is a waste of money.
as for toyota and nissan, i don't know about toyota, but i doubt nissan employs duals stage knock sensors because of the fact that they recommend high octane for nearly all their engines to begin with.
Am I right on this as I have a 2000 accord but never really checked it out.We both live in Canada so that is why I am using KM,s
Watching for a reply. Thanks Bill
The article just reinforces my thoughts on where Honda went wrong with the '03 Accord. Restricting safety options (side curtain air bags and traction control) to only the highest end version of a car is just plain silly. I didn't even think about the traction control issue until Erin mentioned it.
If Honda took a look at the competition a little more closely and incorporated features that other cars in the same class have had for years, I might be drumming up messages on a more positive note in this forum. Playing a German CD in an Accord coupe isn't enough to brainwash me into thinking the new Accord is anything like a Passat (which is exactly what the ad is targeting). Maybe VW should run an ad with Japanese CD to suggest it's just as reliable as an Accord.
Without complaints about products, they never improve. Do you REALLY think that someone from Honda corporate doesn't look in here once in a while? Where else can a company get "free" informtaion about how people feel about their products?
I don't think my Passat is "superior" like you portray. It was the better car for me in '02. I traded off a slight reliability rating for better feel and slightly better resale value. The Accord has better seats (I find the Passat's uncomfortable on long trips), offers a kick-[non-permissible content removed] Navigation system, and will probably have marginally better long term reliability. And there are still issues with VW itself (lack of customer service and the botched coilpack problem) that are losing it customers.
If you just want messages praising the Accord and keep on asking "is this a good price", I'll just sit here and not say anything.
If you want a real conversation about what some of us feel are shortcomings of the Accord (regardless of what it's being compared to), I'll chime in when I have something to say that I feel is useful.
-Craig
17,743+898 tax+219 screw um er administrative+23title=18,888
looks like a 3% profit addition, and this never calculates holdback, but anyway, what say thee??
Thanks in advance
Oh yeah, I was all set for the DX util someone said "What are you gonna do for ac??" Well, I upgraded.
In terms of private-party resale, from 1999-2002 the Accord recorded significantly better private resale values than the Passat (Edmunds has the data to back this).
Residual values on the other hand are leasing company numbers determined mainly by how much off-lease cars are purchased by the brand's dealer network. These numbers are typically higher than private resale values because dealers are in turn able to sell at higher prices because of certification, financing assistance, etc.
Thus, if a car owner tried to sell an Accord or Passat in the private marketplace today, the Accord would fetch a higher price relative to the original purchase. Local newspaper ads and Autotrader.com would bear this out.
This, combined with your history of pro-Passat posts, seems to clearly suggest a specific agenda.
You have every right to say whatever you wish about the Accord... and you're right that this forum shouldn't be simply an Accord praise-fest. And sometimes it's necessary to mention another model of car to make a point (emphasis on the "sometimes"). But if the only way that you can make a point, positive or negative, about the Accord is with a tacit or explicit comparison to the Passat, then you should be posting in a comparison forum. Because somehow the Passat or Passat-related information just happen to factor in to so many of your posts. Again, this doesn't seem like a coincidence.
1. I own one (an '02 GLS) so I have first hand experience on what it's like
2. The Passat was THE car the Accord was engineered to be like (Honda admitted that a long, long time ago).
So it's VERY relavent to compare the Accord to the Passat even though this isn't a comparison forum. It was what Honda wanted the Accord to be, and in my opinion, they did a decent job but failed in a few fronts. One of the ways to suggest to Honda to make good on their product is to voice the concerns and shortfalls of the product.
This happens all the time in the Passat forums (not necessarily on here, but on clubb5 and vwvortex). There are tons of posts on what people want on the next Passat coming out in a year or two, citing major flaws in the current one.
Sorry if I offended anyone. I'll pipe down and just read all the "wow, I got 35 mpg" and "Is $21,875 a good price" comments.
-Craig
You might say that even the Passat is a mass market car, which to an extent may be true, but it really gets walloped in the sales game by both Accord and Camry.
You post that the Passat resale is higher than Accord, and that is completely false according to any site of used car dealer. Please check major sites or your local used car dealer, that should clarify it. And please do nor refer to residual values, that is something entirely different from resale.
I agree that complaints are necessary for manufacturers to sit up and take notice. I would actually suggest VW look at Honda/Toyota and get their quality right. Anyway, lets see how good the new Passat is, and at what price range it is available.
Plus, reliability is not marginally better with an Accord, its infinitely better. For a car in its 7 year to still have problems (and I am not talking coils, my cousin recently had valve failure in his 2003 Passat). What VW has adopted is that they are a German car and accordingly expect people to pay a premium, which is fine, but it ain't no Merc/BMW. Even Trabants are German, so that's that.
If you look through this forum, you'll see that most questions are answered. If yours fell through the cracks, well, I'm sorry, but throwing a tantrum about it isn't really going to help.
So, do someone actually know the answer to exlodie's question? Unfortunately, I don't.
>Traction Control etc are offered only on higher
>prices models, for people who can afford
>them. ...quotes of 17.5k for the LX Auto, which
>is a generously-loaded car and satisfies the
>needs of people looking for that kind of a price.
Traction control and side air bags should be offered as options on all representative models for the mass market Accord. Deciding that 4-cyl
buyers shouldn't want airbags for safety is a ludicrous idea. Only the wealthy or those willing to spend enough money to buy the most expensive model should be allowed to have safety features!!! --- I don't think so.
I enjoy the comparisons with competition models, like the Passat. It takes the edge off the concept that Hondas are perfect (check the Honda Accord Problems Part 2 and Honda Civic Problems and couple of other topics on Civics). All cars have problems. All cars last a long time when given regular, thorough maintenance. But they all have their weaknesses.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Similarly, the Passat is much more expensive than the Accord (not considering the GL with the 2.0L dog of an engine, which itself is a safety risk). Secondly, Passat reliability is much lesser than an Accord, and there are legions of owners who would sewar to that. What we are seeing with the 03 is teeting problems and agreeably, they should not have been there. Still, its not like a Passat nearing the end of its lifecycle and having such a major problem that sales have dropped across the VW brand.
The 1.8T is orders of magnitude better than the 2.0L.
But to respond to the post, if the 4 cyl. is the more driveable because of the balance front/rear, why shouldn't those buyers have the _OPTION_ of ordering air bags. They should fit the car if they fit the 6 cylinder model... Putting more in more cars would lower the cost per unit. On some GM lines (Bonneville) the side air bags are a $300 option in lower cost models, but standard on the pricey versions. I'd pay $300 for the protection they'd offer for the life of the car.
Actually I do understand everything comes at a price. E.g., as for safety coming at a price, remember the Ford products without the $5 rubber protector over the gas tank to reduce the chance of a fire on rear impact. A lot of people's lives could have been saved if Ford had used those.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
03accordman:
Do you mean to say that all cars should have the same safety features? In all price categories?
Yes. It should be offered on all lines at least as an option. Why does some corporate bozo get to decide if I want airbags or not depending on the engine size? That's just plain dumb.
It's the same policy with traction control. Dumb. It's almost the same with the side mirror defrosters, except they decided that anyone in the US doesn't need it, but, theoretically, someone a mile north of you in Canada gets it as a standard feature. Does Honda assume that no one in the US drives to Canada? Dumb.
And as talon95 stated, the 2.slow engine is not put into the Passat here in the US.
-Craig
I would be willing to pay a few hundred more for the side curtain bags if they were available on the LX. However, I believe there are two things standing in the way.
1. As Honda has just begun to offer curtain airbags, it will take a while to get production up to the level necessary. I don't believe in the first year that they can put out enough curtain airbags for all Accords in the U.S.
2. Honda saves money by having almost no options available (mostly dealer accessories). It may be awhile before Honda thinks that buyers are willing to pay the money on cheaper models. I do believe it will happen over the next few years.
Accord LX is priced at $20,710 and Passat GL comes at $23,400. For $2700 more, be assured plenty can be added, but that is not the point. Provide what is needed (may or may not be wanted) in a nice car at a good price and that, IMO, has been the key to Accord's success.
That said, if money is a concern, and you must have curtain airbags in a stripped car, Passat may be a good choice. But if you have the money and want curtain airbags, consider Accord EXV6 or Acura TSX. Now, if you need knee airbags for cheap, I heard Kia offers them.
As for me, I am pretty ok with no side airbags, since its not something I consider a must have, just like traction control in a 160HP engine. Nice to haves, maybe.
Again, the Accord is 3-4k cheaper than a Passat, so there are some things that would be missing due to that price difference, and it depends on the person buying what importance/priority he attaches to these options.
I for one own a Nissan Altima and an Accord. Nissan nickles and dimes you for evey option, and a lot of times there are packages that have stuff that you don't want to pay for but you end up paying since there is no option. In this respect, I feel Honda is better, you get to pick the variant and negotiate easier.
Outrun are you saying that all safety features available for a Merc S class, BMW 7 Series, Volvo S 80 etc. are an option on the Passat?
Of course that does not mean that all comments about the Accord here must be positive. But we do have two other very appropriate venues to put as much emphasis on the Passat as some would like - the comparison topic and the single-vehicle-focused Passat discussion.
Let's honor the request and ask Passat questions in the Passat topic and pursue any further direct comparisons between these two vehicles in the comparisons topic.
Thanks.
""To a lesser extent, I'm irritated that you can only get traction control on the V6 models, though a recent rainstorm suggested that the tires do offer acceptable wet weather grip."
and........
"That's why it makes no sense to me that Honda isn't giving these buyers the option of paying extra for full-length airbags that protect the heads of front and rear occupants. Still, the Accord's top-notch performance in 40-mph offset crash testing by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety — it earned a 'Good' rating (the best possible) and 'Best Pick' standing — suggests that safety was certainly a priority for Honda. Maybe I'm the only one worrying."
and....
"but if I were spending my own money it would be hard for me to ignore how much car you get from Honda when that same amount barely gets you a base Passat."
I have 8300 miles on my 03 Accord EX-L coupe and the car just gets better and better. I average 30MPG which is great considering I've been known to have a lead foot and I've been running the AC lately due to humidity. 5-speed transmission is excellent and the gauges are awesome. Very wise buying decision.
It's unlike, say, cranked instead of power windows depending on model trim.
Since ABS has been standardized across the 03 Accord line, there's a chance Honda will do the same eventually for all safety features, including curtain airbags.
When that happens, I believe Honda will have successfully married ethics and business, with probably outstanding business results.
This time my accord came close to ok, but it is 28/30 instead of 32/30, still wrong. Everytime I buy a new car, the first thing I do the next day when tires are still cold is to check the tire pressure.
I always advised my friends who experienced rough ride on their new cars to do the same, check the tire pressure.
So tell us more of your driving experience with your new car now that the tires are ok. Congratulations on your purchase.
As I understand it, it's about 20 minutes but I've never timed one.
Not a slam, but it is funny (to me, anyway)what is important to some people!
That is what we are here for, afterall.
:-)