Older Honda Accords

snakerbill

I do not know about any study which you mentioned, but from my own experiences with several Honda products, the cars made in Japan were ALL better than the U S made cars which I had. None of them were anywhere near as bad as my 03 Accord coupe, and perhaps I just got a "Monday Morning Hangover car" but I still think that the Japanese built cars are the way to go. The odds seem to be in favor of getting a better built car from Japan

snakerbill

As I stated in my post 12224, I traded my Accord for an RSX Auto. There was little hope that the Accord could be "fixed" as there were just too many other things wrong with this car. For instance, it had a drive line vibration which made a different noise and vibration depending what speed one drove. Taking all the glass out of the car to cure a noise seemed like a stupid thing to do, and I think that the service manager just wanted to be rid of this defective car that his "best" tech could not fix. The bridgestone EL 41 tires were so out of round that no amount of balanceing would make them ride smooth. The alloys had so much radial runout that they wobbled on the balance machine, and the tech had the nerve to tell me that they were within Honda spec. These people just did not want to deal with all of these problems and were telling me bull to get rid of me. I certainly will never darken their door again, and, I tell everyone who is interested to avoid U S built Hondas. By the way, the RSX Auto has 43000 miles, and still drives like new, and has never had any mechanical or body problems. A new set of Dunlop A2 Sport tires at 40000 miles, just transformed the RSX. Its handling, brakeing, and turn in were improved over the Michlin original equipment tires, and as an extra bonus, they ride much much better.
Also, these tires cost about one half the price of those rock hard Michelins which were very bad in the wet. The bottom line: Buy a Japanese built car and you stand a much better chance of getting a good car. Japanese cars built in this country are not nearly as good as those made in Japan. That has been my experience with several different Honda products.

pj23

We've had an '01 Civic, two '02 Accords, and one '03 Accord, all of which were built here in the United States. Were there a couple of minor problems? Yes. Anything drastic? Not by any stretch.

A good friend has an '00 Accord EX, Japan-built. With under 10,000 miles, the engine block needed replacing. The car runs absolutely fine now and has been problem-free since. But it goes to show you that a less-than-perfect car can come from Japan just as easily as from Ohio.

according2me

accessory parts starting with the 6th Gen. Delphi, instead of Denso, for alternators and so on...

Things that are not apparent until 50K miles or so.

msf2

Would anyone with the Honda voice activated navigation system in their Accord like to comment on how it's been working and whether it's worth the extra money? Is the system updatable and how often?? Thanks in advance.....

rueshan

First of all, I am very happy that I purchased the Nav system on my 2004 Accord. Having taken several vacations recently and finding myself in unfamiliar areas, it has guided me flawlessly from malls to restaurants, from amusements parks to hotels, and back home again. I especially like the ability to find places by simply entering the phone number of the business... either by voice, joystick or touching the keyboard on the screen. The screen clearly indicates left and right turns, as well as those pesky unmarked forks in the road. It is one of the best navigation systems on the market, hands down. Don't forget that it is not only a voice controlled navigation system, it also allows you to control the CD changer, climate control, defogger, defroster, and the AM/FM/XM radio by voice... which makes for safer driving. It also includes a very nice trip computer and calendar/calculator/address database that allows you to program reminders. The screen also displays the station name, the name of the current song and the name of the artist when the XM radio is playing... a nice touch. The Nav system maps and software are updated by replacing the DVD in the trunk with the newest release from Honda. Finally, it makes a for a great looking dashboard. If the price is not a problem for you, buy it.

hondasellertx

It is one of the coolest toys ever on a car. The update is annual but is optional. The list of restaurants etc. would be somewhat out of date, especially if it was skipped for a year or more, but that wouldn't be too big a problem i don't think. I've tried it with several local addresses and it works just the way I would/do when going to them. Is it worth it? I think the fun factor is enough and if/when one is in an unfamiliar area it is a great asset.

sir_col

The Navi is worth every penny spent on it. Last week I purchased two '04 EXl V-6, one with navi, and one without, both identical cars but for the navi. They both have 500 miles on them, as of today,and the navi is by far the "better", or more remarkable, of the two. Had I not been sooo thrifty, I should have purchased both vehicles with the Navi package, as it simply a remarkable atribute, and fun too! The navi Accord is the center of attention and the one that gets priority, the other is just a nice car..... Having said that, if I had the whole decission to do over there would be no Question, both cars would have had the navi package.
Sir_col

rroyce10

....... Kinda keep in mind, if you like em', buy em' .. if it's just something you will use once on a blue moon, then you might just go to Boaters world and buy a $299 GPS for your shirt pocket .. at trade time, these are only worth around $500 ...

       
               Like I always say: buy and drive what YOU like ...

                      Terry

rueshan

...and as usual, you're going to get advice from two sets of people... those who actually own the system and those who are on the outside looking in. Just don't make the mistake of thinking that a $299 pocket GPS is anywhere near the same level of usefulness as the nav system upgrade on the Accord... you get what you pay for. Unless you only drive to work and back home again in your car, you will find the nav system extremely useful and worth the money... period. This is clearly indicated by those who actually own the system. Either way, let us know what you decide.

lichtronimo

Tires seem to be a frequent topic here. Consumer Reports current issue features a test of high performance radial tires applicable to the Honda Accord.

Surpisingly, a "Falken" tire ranked highest with better wet braking and handling. I'd never heard of this brand before, but its available at Sears auto centers. Tire Rack doesn't have it.CR lists a price of $60 per tire.

Bridgestone Turanza LS-H ranked second. CR said it offers better handling to the Falken's better wet traction. CR listed a price of $100 per tire for the LS-H, which is $15 higher than Tire Rack's current price.

The Michelin MVX4 Energy finished 6th, but was listed as the best tire if gas mileage is your priority. Funny, but CR rated the Michelin's better than the Falken or the Bridstone for road noise.

aggie1995

in my experience with 2 sets of these are that they are hell to balance. They cup and go out of round very quickly. You'll replace them within 25k miles. This happened twice on my 94 Integra. Stock michelins gave me 70k, Falken 20k, Falken 27k, BFG Touring T/A 50k when I sold the car and still looked like it had 15k left on them.

I do not recommend Falken. But they do look agressive! If you only keep your cars for 3 yrs go for it.

snakerbill

Hi. I agree that any car built anywhere can have a problem, but I still think that the ODDS are much better if the car is built in Japan. They use better quality small parts, and have far fewer nickle and dime problems than cars built here. These nickle and dime problems still take up a whole day to get fixed, and sometimes no parts are available, so your car sits waiting for a $10.00 part. The seat motor on my 0l Acura CL quit working and it was l5 days before a new motor was available. This was not the dealers fault, but the part suppliers..Acura bought the cheapest thing they could get. This car had several other problems, and the motor on my friends 03 CL had no lobes on the Vtec camshaft, and the five speed auto trans had to be exchanged within a few miles of new. Both of these devices were made in this country. Makes one think. My friend finally decided to get rid of this CL, and bought a G35 Coupe. So far as I know, he has had no problems with the G35, which is made in Japan.

pj23

I don't think we have enough information available to us here to make an assessment of the odds of having defects or problems in a Japan-built car versus a U.S.-built car. Your story points to Japan-built cars being better. Mine points to U.S.-built cars being better. All of what we get here is unscientific and anecdotal, and therefore we can't draw any conclusions one way or the other.

As for quality of small parts, I have no idea how one quantifies the quality difference between Japan-sourced parts for Japan-built Accords and U.S.-sourced parts for U.S.-built Accords. How do you know of the quality difference?

winbro

after following MFG suggestion for tire pressure of 32 front & 30 rear for the accord 03-v6 for a couple of months, it looked like one front tire needed air. I tried an experiment and put in
34 front & 32 rear.

I find at these pressures the car rides better handles better and believe it or not, some of the squeaks & rattles are lessened. go figure

lichtronimo

Thanks for the Falken info. We need new tires on my wife's 2001 Accord EX. As she is about the worst driver on the planet, I was looking for the Falkens due to their better traction characteristics. However, I can't find the specific tire suggested by CR and the actual price of the Bridestones makes them more than competitive.

ragtop

We just picked up our new Accord and it included a XM radio. I played around with it at lunch time and I could only get 5 stations to work.
channels 5, 12, 15, 26 and 31. I thought for sure that channels in the 6x range was working last night. XM radio is new to me and I thought I read somewhere that the first 3 months were free. But when they say free, does that mean only 5 channels ?
The salesman had no clue on how to use it because their classes for this new product (XM radio) is not until November. So he couldn't tell me anything.
Anyone else have a XM radio and how many channels did you get the first time ?

gee35coupe

And they vary throughout the day. Sometimes they are great, sometimes all 5 suck. We got tired of waiting for our XM packet from Honda and went ahead and paid for a month...Needless to say I'm having XM put in my 03 Civic SI too. I love it. Go ahead and activate. They say you'll still get your free 3 months.

ken972

As far as I know the free trial includes all 100 stations. Thats what I have. It sounds like your dealer didnt activate it yet. Give them a call. Those 5 stations come with the radio.

ragtop

Thanks gee35,
  I didn't know that the channels varies throughout the day and that Honda was surppose to give me a XM packet. This was the answer I was looking for. Thank you.

ragtop

Ken,

   The salesman and the dealership didn't not know anything about how the XM radio works, he told me he was surppose to get classes from headquarters on the XM radio in Nov. I will contact him in about a week and see if he has any new information. Thank you for your note.

maxpower02

that the noise is what snakerbill #12224 said, the body panels are rubbing together at the bulkhead. The brake thing was what the service tech said. I called my "service consultant" today and he told me to bring my car in next Monday, since the weld repairs have to be done at the body shop and will take a "few days". This weld problem surfaced on early EXV6 Sedans, but Honda corrected this problem on the assembly line, so EXV6's made at a later date are not affected.
I will let you all know how it turns out.
I wonder if I can get a loaner for the "few" days that this will take, maybe an "04!!

s852

If no one at the dealership has answers, call Honda customer service or XM directly.
There should be someone who has the details. There is no reason to wait for a salesman to get training in Novemeber unless you have no plans to use the XM.

booyah

The five stations you are recieving are simply a "sample" of the service. The five stations will vary throughout the day to give you a feel for the variety. I picked up my O4 EXL last week. I called the 800# on the brochure that was provided to activate the service. You will need the ID# displayed on XM channel 0 or 1. I indicated to the XM rep that this was a new Honda and she said the activation fee and the first three months were free. Within an hour of the call, all 100 channels were working.

ken972

The XM in my car was ready to go. I called XM and they said someone from the dealer called to activate it. Also with me the dealer didnt know much about it. I was the first to buy one with XM. What was in the brochure you recieved? I didnt get one.

ehawkins

I've had my 04 EX V6 with Nav for about 10 days. Don't know if I will ever completely master the Nav System, but I'm sure having fun trying. learn something new every day. Taking a 5000 mile trip the end of the month, so it should get a good workout. XM Radio is my next best favorite toy. Owned a Lexus ES300 before. The Accord is a big improvement. If you can afford the Nav. BUY IT!!!

sbhonda

Yes if you have a use for the Navi it would be great to have. If you don't then why spend $2000 just to get one to play with for a month or so and then get tired of it. if you have the extra money great. if not you can get good city, state, and national map book for less than $30 and call for directions to the restarant.
$2000 goes a long way for a fishing trip when you buy a map. if you are a account rep for a food chain and do nothing but travel then go for it it is well worth the time you would save.

Thank you for reading my opinion
Honda Sales Rep.
P.S. there not marked up that much so be nice to your sales rep please(if they deserve it)

sir_col

The radio is really easy to activate on the new Accords, as I have done two of them in the last week or so. It is a phone call to XM, (800 #) and give them THE RADIO ID # found when tuning the unit to channel 00, your name etc, and tell them the it is in your new car( make / model etc). The radio will be activated and working in a very short period of time with all 100 plus channels. I would however recommend that the car is outside with clear view of the sky for the fastest activation. Sir_col

mikeysoft

I paid $1700 not $2000 for the nav system on my 03 so the markup must be $300 or about 15%. 15% is not too bad for a new toy. I expect the Nav systems to go down in price in a few years.
 
Maps are not the same as a Nav system. Too long to explain all the differences.

snakerbill

My statements are supported by MY own experiences with several Honda products over the years. Also, several of my friends have had the same experiences, and we all belong to a local auto club discussion group. Most everyone in this group has said the same thing: Japan built cars are GENERALLY better than those Japanese cars made here. I do not think that I need any other proof to support my contention as it squares with the facts of reality. I think that Consumer Reports has published the same facts, supported by thousands of their readers. Japanese built cars as a whole, are more reliable and better built than cars made in this country. Go read this for yourself in several of their recent publications. I think that the sample of hundreds of thousands or subscribers who have answered their surveys establish a sufficient basis for proving the contentions mentioned. The same thing also applies to the small parts used in the building of cars. The parts made in Japan are also better quality than those made here. It is their work ethic in Japan that makes a large difference in the products which they turn out. Our workers have a very different attitude, and the unions do not help when the workers can get away with almost anything they want to, and then are protected from dismissal by their contract. They only do the bare minimum, and that is one of the reasons that our products are not the best in the world. It is not that we cannot make better cars, it is that the will to do so is lacking. Also, it is not all the workers fault, as management is just as guilty of trying to squeeze every drop of profit out of their products without any regard for the end user, the customer who gets screwed when they buy faulty products. The whole attitude of these people is, take the money and run, and we will find new suckers in the future who are too stupid to learn history, so they are doomed to repeat the same errors and we do not have to do any better than we are doing now.

jcihak

FYI,
- Honda plants in the US are not unionized.

- You forgot to blame the consumer for demanding low prices. There's a whole forum here on how to get the best price for a car. Well, you get what you pay for. Manufacturers cut costs to satisfy the consumers (us). Manufacturers also try to maximize their profits to satisfy shortsighted daytraders (also us).

aggie1995

soooo your auto club group all agrees with you! WOW! I never would have expected that. I wonder if I went to the Democrartic National Party if they would all agree that having a democratic president would be better than having a republican president? You think?

Before you decide to characterize our AMERICAN workers as having a poor work ethic, bad attitudes and lazy (doing the bare minumum) you should pull your head out of the nether-regions and do a little research on the FACTS.

Do a search on the internet about Toyota and NUMMI. See if you can find the whole story about NUMMI.

In a nutshell it is a plant that Toyota and GM operated in a joint venture when they started doing joint development of vehicles (aka corolla/prism/nova or Matrix/Vibe) back in the 80's. The plant used to be one of the worst for GM in the world in terms of number of defects and overall workmanship, nevermind that it was losing money hand over fist. Toyota agreed to operate the plant but it kept all the American workers and the UNIONS(UAW) and the same manufacturing equipment for the most part. The plant has since become a shining star for the GM/Toyota The plant makes corolla, tacoma, vibe, matrix and prisms. Some of the awards it has won:

Six J.D. Power and Associates Plant Quality Awards: three Silver (1994, 1999, 2000) and three Bronze (1995, 1996, 2002); 2001 J.D. Power and Associates Chairman Award for Quality Initiatives (first auto assembly plant to receive award). Tacoma rated Best Compact Pickup Truck in North America, 1995, 1996 and 1997; Tacoma ties for Most Appealing Vehicle in J.D. Power and Associates 2001 Automotive Performance Execution and Layout (APEAL) study; National Association of Manufacturers (NAM) 1998 Award for Workforce Excellence; Corolla ranked No. 1 Premium Compact Car in North America in J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Survey (1999, 2000, 2001 & 2002)

NUMMI was a grand experiment between GM and Toyota that was a grand success.

----------------------

American workers are not the problem. Maybe our methods or leadership are to blame for some of the problems. That will all have to work itself out in the free market economy.

If you want to keep buying only made in Japan, by all means go ahead..I don't blame you. But watch where you put the blame for your decisions.

and no I don't work for the UAW or anything closely related to manufacturing of any type.

ragtop

Thank you every for your advice on how the XM radio works.

I called XM today at around 11:00am and all they needed was my name address phone and the radios id code. Took all of 10 minutes (would have taken less time but I misread the id code. The "S" is really the number five. Took her a few minutes to correct me. After she found my id code, she knew it was a 2004 Honda Accord. I was surprised that she didn't ask for a credit card. She said enjoy the radio for 3 months and in the mean time we will send you a letter and some materials to see if you want to extend your subsruption. No pressure at all.

I went out at lunchtime and turned on the radio but nothing yet. Half hour later the screen said "updating" and then all 100 channels are there. Now to enjoy the XM radio.

So the recap my experiences:
1. XM radio will get about 5 channels even if it is not activated. The 5 channels will change every few hours or so (my experiences).
2. To active the XM radio just call the XM's 800 number. very easy and pleasent to talk to.

Once again, thanks all.

lelandhendrix

I bought a 2003 LX and I still absolutely love the car. However, the Michelin Energy MXV4's were soooo bad. Terrible wet traction, and even downright embarrasing in dry optimum conditions. You could be trying to catch a quick left turn through an intersection on a yellow, and the tires would scream like the world was coming to an end.

I just added some 17" styled aluminum wheels and some performance tires. I picked 17's because they come on the performance coupe, and the tires I added are the exact diameter, so your speedo is still accurate.

They not only look more classy, the tires make the car much more fun to drive and MUCH safer in wet conditions. The tires were cheap too, Hankook Ventus HRII H405's. The way they push water out of their is just amazing, and braking distances are several SEVERAL feet shorter.

To anyone who ever notices that their tires are not on par performance-wise with the rest of their cars suspension and other characteristics, the wheel/tire upgrade is the best gift you could ever give yourself.

aggie1995

Are all the aftermarket XM radio's FM modulated, or will the work through an Aux input?

Can I do this myself?

jmess

Interestingly enough this months consumer reports has a tire test and the MXV4 Plus tires scored above average in all dry and wet tests. The test car was a 2002 Accord. So testing using some science doesn't support replacing the tires.

hmurphy

...because I've never had any problems with the Michelins on my 03 Accord. Then again, I'm one of the few on this board who drove a Camry and found it satisfying. I guess I'm 31 going on 80.

My test of the tires will be the upcoming winter months here in Chicago. I've never felt the need for separate winter tires (the Camry had Pirelli grand touring tires year round), and I hope that doesn't change.

pj23

I am not questioning your experiences or your club's. I am positing that you cannot rely on anecdotal evidence, such as your own experience, or my own experience, or your auto club's collective experience, to prove a point.

I absolutely agree with you that Consumer Reports' methodology is more reliable that anecdotal evidence. However, I have no knowledge of Consumer Reports' studies comparing the quality of a specific model of automobile manufactured in two or more different places (such as the Accord, manufactured in Japan and Ohio and Mexico). Could you point us toward this data? If you are simply referring to a generalized study that concludes U.S.-built cars are not as well-built or reliable as Japan-built cars, then I would submit that such a study has no bearing on the subject we are talking about - quality differences within a model range based on location of manufacture.

I am aware that a recent JD Power survey cites Japan-built Accords as having higher initial-quality scores than U.S-built Accords. It also states that U.S.-built Civics have higher scores than Japan-built Civics. Lastly, the study states that the Toyota Corolla (the only other vehicle measured that is produced in Japan and the United States) has almost identical initial quality numbers based on location of manufacture. So it may be true that, for initial quality anyway, Japan-built Accords are better than U.S.-built ones. but the reverse is true for the Civic. Corolla is too close to call. And I further agree with others in saying that one cannot blame the American worker for the difference.

With regard to the quality of small parts, I do not understand what you are basing this position on. If it your opinion, that is fine. But it was my impression that you were offering this as fact.

eswanborg

You can do it either way. Most XM units come set up for FM Modulation - but you can buy adapters to make it run through the Aux input also. I've got mine in the Aux input of an 03 EX and love it. Used to be FM modulated in a 99 EX, and the Aux input is much better as far as I'm concerned. The adapters will run about $100 total depending on which XM receiver you get. Hope that helps.

mdconsumer

Rueshan, the NAV system features sound great. The calendar reminder feature is a nice surprise -- I didn't even know it has this feature. So you can perhaps have the NAV remind you of a family member's birthday or other important dates. Can't wait until I get the car. Kevin

briansbluetoy

I installed mine in the center compartment (concealed by the door when I park). My antenna just layed on the rear deck.

It connected with an aux input adapter from http://www.logjamelectronics.com/auxinpconv.html

I also used a ground loop isolator from radio shack to get rid of the hiss. about $15.

sbhonda

yes the nav system does do alot more than just point the way. I just cant see that spending that amount of extra money unless you need it or just have it to burn.
I do love them and I think they make a great addition to an accord pilot or odyssey.
Enjoy your navi and be happy you have a Honda because of the choice you made you will save enough in the long run to make up for the price.
where are you going on your first trip when you get your Accord?

isellhondas

The "gadget" people who have to have the latest and greatest.

And people who seriously can use this such as, maybe a Real Estate agent.

Nobody really "needs" one.

gatrhumpy

I was just wondering if the Navigation System played regular movie DVD's. The reason I ask is because the new 2004 Acura TL will play movies in dash, but the car has to be stopped in order for them to work. Also, does anyone know how to make it so you CAN watch movies while driving (not me but the passenger). I know this is against the law and dangerous, but I just wanted to know if there was a way. Thanks.

rueshan

The Nav system is a luxury item, just like the automatic climate control and the leather seats and the keyless remote and a ton of other things on new cars today. Nobody really 'needs' any of these things. They just make life a little easier for us, and sometimes in the case of the nav system, even a little safer. I can keep my eyes on the road while going through all the channels on my XM radio... I personally think that makes a big difference. Show me another car with a Nav system as nice as Honda's in this price range.... there isn't one. For what you get, compared to what is currently on the market, its a great deal for the money. Some people see the value and some people don't. However, the original question in this thread asked the people who OWN the system to give their opinions... and we have spoken. Just last weekend, I went to Busch Gardens in Williamsburg... lo and behold, the power was out at the amusement park all day. Thanks to the Nav system, we were able to find alternate points of interest to visit, like Colonial Williamsburg, and we were able to find outlets for my wife to shop at... and then find a nice Italian restaurant for dinner. The Nav system even gave me the customer service phone number for Busch Gardens to call about the power outage problem. It is worth its weight in gold.

fjm1

Aggie: good post, and it is definitely a CLIMATE issue not a CULTURE issue.

JMess: My 2003 accord V6 has MXV4's NOT PLUS.
In fact I agree w/Lexlandhendrix in stating that WHATEVER tires are currently occupying the wheel wells of my stock accord, they suck bad. Hopefully they will get me thru snow, then on go the 17's w/Yokohama AVS100's. The perfect shoes for such a deep breathing engine.....

stringreen

Does anyone know if it is possible to just have fresh air come in through the vents without the compressor on a 03 Accord EX Coupe?

talon95

"My 2003 accord V6 has MXV4's NOT PLUS."

You may want to check again... I thought the same thing until another 2003 Accord V6 owner pointed out that there is a new version of the MXV4 called the S8. The only indication that you have this tire is a small S8 marking along the edge of the wheel. This one is ranked higher than the Plus in wet traction, handling and winter traction.

snakerbill

My club has members who drive all kinds of cars, and most of the comments posted were from a general discussion of the topic, and it included nearly every car available in this country. Several of the members are in the auto parts mfg. business, and they are the people who commented on the quality of parts made in various places. Most of the union comments came from union members who work for GM and Ford. Perhaps my postings were too general to put forth the general consensus of all concerned, but it sure drug some of you non contributers out of your caves swinging your clubs, glad to hear from you as everyone's opinion is worth hearing, and friendly differing opinions are one good way to learn more about almost anything. No more rocks, ok?

talon95

"Does anyone know if it is possible to just have fresh air come in through the vents without the compressor on a 03 Accord EX Coupe?"

If you have the automatic climate control, just push the A/C button so that the auto light goes off. It will also say "A/C Off" in the display just above the radio volume control. I do this all the time on my 2003 EX Sedan.