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More production facility dedicated to the Accord, and to compete with the rest of the bunch, incentives would be needed as well. Honda still tries to get away with minimal incentives (usually 1.9-2.9% APR) when sales are slow compared to the rest of the competition that offers 0% to 0.9% sometimes with cash incentives as well.
And may be start dumping Accords into fleet sales. A while ago, I remember seeing fleet sales data. 15% or so of Camry sales numbers are via fleet sales. This has been on the rise since the late 90s. Honda limits fleet sales to under 2%, which is incredible compared to the competition, I believe there are just 2-3 low volume brands that are better in that regard, Mini included.
Even if Honda added a “Sport” edition (I have always hoped for it, in sedan form), it won’t be a volume seller. Probably 5% of additional sales, if not less, and additional 5-10% of buyers may opt to buy the sport edition instead of regular version.
Also, regarding Maxima sales, they arent down considerably, though they are down. However, just as someone recently did with respect to the Accord vs. some of its rebated competition, there are NO incentives on the Maxima, and with the higher prices vs. previous generations, I'd be willing to be that great margins are offsetting the modest sales losses. In any case, the Maxima is hardly gone.
Also, can you clarify (primarily the 2nd sentence): "Even if Honda added a “Sport” edition (I have always hoped for it, in sedan form), it won’t be a volume seller. Probably 5% of additional sales, if not less, and additional 5-10% of buyers may opt to buy the sport edition instead of regular version."
stacey_burke- if you already have 2 Accord V6s, and are happy, why consider anything BUT the significantly improved 2004 versions?
~alpha
Honda had a good showing in JD Power's Initial Quality Survey. They are ranked second as a corporation and are the fourth ranked nameplate. Most surprising is that Hyundai has now surpassed Toyota in initial quality. If they can manage to improve their resale value Hyundai will definitely be a viable alternative to Honda and Toyota on paper although Honda and Toyota still maintain the advantage when it comes to refinement, technology, and safety.
Four years ago, we needed to get rid of either a 98 Accord LX V6 with 50K miles or a 97 Maxima SE with 90K miles to make room for a new Honda van and a new Acura. We deliberated by taking each of these vehicles (Accord and Max) out for a spirited drive in the country in the twisties a few times. While it was difficult to rationalize keeping an older car with more miles over a newer one, the Max SE won hands down because of its fun factor. It was a more spirited car and handled better. The Honda had summer performance radials, but it still could not match the Max. Still have the Max at 158 K Miles and it is enjoyable to drive.
Also owning an 04 TL, and having test driven an 04 Accord and 04 Maxima, the Max has changed its stripes since 1995-1999 generation. I know this is not a Max site, but Nissan has lost it with the current design. Apparently, they are trying to appeal to Buick and Caddy owners.
Back to Honda - why do they not offer a sport Accord 4-door? Some people may not want to or can afford an Acura TSX or TL.
I would have seriously looked at a TL, but the main problem is the distance to my closest Acura dealer is over an hour drive away. Also, I think the Accord coupe looks better - I prefer 2 doors! If Acura was still making the CL, I would have probably opted for one of those. I even searched dealer inventory for an 03 CL, 6speed, to no avail
Now there are continued, many problems posted. The quality report says not as good as the reputation some try to prolong. It's back to a normal car image now.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Not to deny that some owners have problems, but there still are 2 sides to this story.
And as far as how far Honda has slid on quality, overall it still ranks #4 on JDP's list, behind 3 high priced luxury makes. 5 slots above arch-rival Toyota. While heavily hyped competitors like Nissan and Mazda are at the bottom of the list. So compared to its most likely competition, Honda is still a leader in this area.
Finally, as someone mentioned above, initial quality does not automatically translate into long term dependability. So I tend to discount JDP (for that and several other reasons) and stress Consumer Reports much more. Just my opinion.
However, based on JDP's Apeal survey, it seems that styling isn't a real problem for the Accord. For the 2003 model year, the only major competitor of the Accord (rated 3 out of 5) that was ranked higher in styling was the Mazda 6 (rated 4 out of 5). Competitors like Nissan Altima and VW Passat, cars which are often held up as examples of attractive styling when someone claims that the Accord is unattractive, got the same ranking as the Accord. Others like Camry, Galant, Saturn L series and Legacy were ranking lower in styling (rated 2 out of 5).
So it seems that when you check with a larger cross section of the population than is represented in these forums, they consider the Accord's styling to be as attractive as or more attractive than most of its competition.
Ironically, Honda is very conservative in offering performance type vehicles given their years of involvement in open wheel racing F1, IRL and CART (past). Acura has RSX, NSX and TL Type A and that is about it. Honda has S2000. You would think that their engine design and building experiences for these racing cars would somehow translate to a corporate culture that would provide choices in "affordable" vehicles that are performance oriented at Honda.
I don't think that spoilers, leather, moonroof, navi have anything to do with sport or handling. These are obviously high profit margin items for the auto manufacturers and dealers.
Some time back I tapped into a forum discussing the accuracy of CR. The substance of the argument (fueled in part by legal challenges to CR) is that CR determinations are strongly biased (sampling characteristics etc...) because is entirely based on subscribing sample population (this can be a major problem when 'polling data') and being quite regionally biased as well (HQ northeast, NY or NJ if I recall) with larger subscribing portion on that region. JD Powers approach is a bit more specific. They send surveys to buyers of model years being sampled (I received one for my 2003 Accord as well). It sounds to me that since you are asked to speak about the model you specifically bought and drive all the time there is more substance to JD Powers surveys. At least more meaning that obtained from the Cadillac owner John Doe that subscribes to CR and that is going to speak out his mind on your accord that he has never driven!
Wonder how the "slightly revised reverse light" looks.
~alpha
Again the random selection of JD Powers querying the actual new owners of a car is different than those who happen to subscribe to CR and who happen to get the questionnaire that year and who happen to care enough to input that they love their 831 model or don't bother to respond because they have no problems with their Hupmobile 831 -- a satisfied owner who didn't respond or they hate GM and say they've had nothing but problems with their 1983 Cutlass or they..., etc.
I don't subscribe but occasionally read CR at the pediatrician's and dentist's office. CR grew from the 70s culture that was antigovernment and anti big business. They are useful for anecdotal information as what systems go bad on older models of cars if you're thinking of buying a used car or want to know what's more likely to go wrong with your 1993 LeSabre after 5 years.
But for unbiased information, use many sources and your own preferences and other owner's past information about a model.
********
Does someone have a link for JD Powers Appeal survey cited above a few messages? please.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Nobody is saying that any of these surveys should be treated as a bible, but they certainly are one starting point. Personally, I don't share the concerns that you have concocted about CR... biased behavior can manifest itself with any survey, and one of the best ways to avoid this is with a large sample size, an advantage that CR has over JDP. At any rate, I've found CR to be quite accurate over time, as have many other people with whom I've spoken.
Go to this page, click on "Help me choose", click on "Car - midsize" on the next page, click Next, and then advance the Style slider to Very Important, and leave all other sliders at Not Important. Click on Update List and the cars will be listed in order of style score from the Apeal study.
I tried to find a more succinct way of displaying this data, but this was the only way that I could find to view all cars.
A sample needs to be accurate AND random for what is being studied. CR's sample is NOT random. Let's take an unbiased sample by mailing surveys to season ticketholders of the NFL franchises about whether political entities should fund new stadiums for football teams. We get a large sample.
I don't want to take shots at CR but I've found JD Powers to be quite accurate over time as have many people to whom I've spoken. We don't need to go through the concocted list of complaints against JDP's surveys. We obvious still disagree.
I have been surveyed many years ago by JDPowers on new cars.
We obviously do agree that multiple sources are best. I believe the dealer may be as big a factor in your purchase and future happiness as the survey of your choice.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But, living in sunny Fla. with two kids, I envisioned many merry hours of vacuuming sand from the interior. I always buy gray interiors, which hides a lot of dirt but doesn't highlight the sand. That's why my favorite Accord combo is Redondo/gray. Nice look all around.
I wouldn't worry about the heat with a cloth interior. The Silver exterior will reflect a lot of that away.
Had an unrepairable flat today. Cost of replacement Michelin MXV4 S8 is going to be $155. AAARRGGHH.
Choose the video for SH-AWD and the 05 Accord appears in the first 30 seconds.
I remember in the late 80s and 90s they intro'd vtec, 4ws -- all on the 'lude.
For this reason the ultra tech will likely appear on Acurs like the RL. There are some exceptions like the Accord being their first full size hybrid or getting the best NAV system first.
Tried and true keeps price down, value up (and esclusivity to nil!)
That's not rumor. It's been confirmed by Honda. It'll be a special AWD that can distribute up to 100% of rear torque to one or the other rear wheel during cornering.
Thanks
I guess that is what Acura is for.
In a theoretical world where there is a 6 speed, four door Accord for $27k, I'd rather take the depreciation killing at resale on that than a $35k Acura TL 6 speed.
Maybe I am worrying for nothing (it has been known to happen) but I think I will take a beating on resale on my EX-L 5 MT 4 door. I knew it going in and I still love the car and am glad I did it!
Anyone with experience selling a 4 door Accord EX-L with 5 MT care to comment on salability of that config?