BMW 5-Series Sedans

sec1

I've spoken w/ someone who owns a 530I (I just ordered mine) and lives in Ohio. This person says the 5 handles pretty good in the snow and hasn't had any real trouble in the snow. Take it for what its worth. I was thinking of the same thing when I was deciding to buy the 5. I will not be driving mine in the snow in the near future, will have a SUV for the winter storms. The 50-50 weight balance must help somewhat since neither the front of back end will be lighter.

dogface4

Hi chessdin & lgross:

I also live in new york (city) and want to purchase 530. I also want to do the Euro Delivery program. Would you mind telling me the dealership that you went to in New York which would gave you the $1450 off invoice PLUS the ED discount? That sounds like a tremendous bargain. Also, does anybody know whether or not buying the car in a state with a lower tax rate is something you can do to save money? Or does the state in which you reside (with the higher tax rate) nail you with the taxes once you re-register your car?

Thanks

akuma1

Does the 530 w/o sports package come with crappy tires? Cause I've heard lots of complaints about tires being crappy w/ non sports versions in the past.

5speed5

There are as couple of things for you to consider on this issue of purchase vs. release/buy:

First if you were to buy, how much longer do you see yourself owning the car for? If it will be 5 years+, then it is a wise buy. At 30K divided by 60 months, you are looking at a cost factor of $500 per month to own. By the mileage you have you are in the lower end of use of the car, which is great. Another thing to consider is the cost of ownership for servicing & repairs. If possible, consider extending the warranty if it not too late.

If it will be less than 5 years, your monthly cost would start closing in on the money associated with a new lease vehicle that comes with full maintenance.

In 2003/4?? when the body style changes, the resale value of the '98 will take a hit.The cost/loss factor will not be worth it if you sell in less than 5 years of use.

vishnu11

I favor loans simply because loans are far simpler (as a contract) to adhere to. Ever seen a lease contract? Damn thing looks like a law textbook. There are so many clauses and fees and in horrendous legal mumbo-jumbo. I have heard time and again of people who have got shafted of thousands of dollars because the dealer interprets minor scratches as major, replacing tires all around when not needed, and of course the mileage issue and many more issues. The hassle is really not worth it.

Instead look at ownership from a different point of view. Keep however long you want - sell when you want. Want to do mods? Go ahead (bimmer fans, yes!). However, my view is that on modern cars, there is no point owning beyond five years. Reason? Shortly after the warranty period expires, stupid stuff starts breaking - the electricals are the first in line, the airconditioner, and around 60K miles the tires and breaks need a rehaul, sometimes the timing belt needs to be replaced, the 60K service etc.etc.. Chalk all of this to a significant chunk of change. Bimmers are, of course, (in)famous for that. Besides, in five years, technology (especially safety) progresses considerably to the point where its a good idea to upgrade your current car. But that's your choice. You don't have to rush to the dealer simply because penalties are attached to turn the car in. Finally, in five-seven years, the cost of keeping an owned car is insurance+city taxes+gas+maintenance, *not* payments on the car (depending on whether your loan is 36-72 months). And insurance and city taxes go down tremendously after the first couple of years.

The lease side of the argument is to say that you don't get into these issues - just change a car every 2-3 years. But, in effect, this means that over a 10 year period, it amounts to expensively renting 3 different cars - and this is assuming that you don't mind battling with the dealer who tries to suck you on *both* the car being turned in and the new car being leased 3 times in that 10 year period.

The standard lease vs. buy argument does not take all these issues into consideration.

dantlo

Thank you for your insight!! I am still thinking!!

msingerbmw

I have a 530i without the sports package and it came with Michelin tires. "Pilots." I have found them to be quiet, supple over bumps, and from what I undestand they will get 40,000 miles plus.

akuma1

Don't Pilots suck?

acghello

Hi -

Thinking of buying (very soon) a 1998 528i. The car has traction control (standard, I think) but not electronic or dynamic traction control (whatever exactly these are) nor stability control. Question to you 1998-model owners: how does the car perform re: skidding, traction and spinning in inclement weather? I know that models with no traction control at all have been less than desirable in this respect. These? Thanks.

Amy

akuma1

For any kind of car I think winter tires are the best bet if you are worried about snow performance. I don't get snow too often here so it's not quite worth getting snow tires but if you have it pretty regularly I think you should definately get a good set of snow tires.

akuma1

Are there anyone who bought a 540 who wished they bought a 530 instead and are there anyone who bought a 530 who wished they bought a 540 instead?

robert111

The 2001 530 sports and sports premiunm equipped cars have been coming with Michelin Primacy tires. I have read lots of complaints about them on the bimmer.org board. They get very noisy after only 5,000 or so miles and do not wear well. You can feel feathering along the inside edges if you reach in there. People are getting only about 20,000 miles on them. There are so many complaints about them on that board that I'm sure the word must have gotten back to BMW by now.

The tires on the non-sports-equipped cars seem fine.

I understand that you have to expect shorter tread life and more noise on the speed-rated tires which come on the sports package, but people have been recommending Bridgestone Potenza RE730, Kumho ECTSA Supra 712, and AVS Sports as replacements.

Here's hoping BMW will supply a better tire on the 2002 530 with sports (since I have one on order).

habitat1

Akuma,

In answer to your question, not quite. However, one of my business partners has a 2000 540iA (sport) and, after test driving a 530i 5-speed with me, wishes that he had gotten a manual instead of an automatic. He also commented that he's not particularly thrilled with the gas milage of the 540iA or the need to get new tires after only 14,000 miles. The 530i sport uses the same size tires/rims on front and back, so they can be rotated. The 540i sport uses larger rear wheels and, as such, can't be rotated to balance wear.

I was originally thinking M5, but after I came back to earth after an extended test drive several months ago, I have pretty much decided that a 530 will be very satisfactory in performance. Interestly enough, other than flat out acceleration, I liked the way the 530i sport drove slightly better than the 540i 6-speed. It felt a little lighter and tighter. (On the other hand, the M5 is truly extraordinary). I am planning on ordering a 2002 530i for European Delivery in late 2001/ early 2002. I may revisit my decision if there is any truth to the rumor that BMW is going to a more powerful and more fuel efficient 8 cylinder for early 2002 production.

infinitimn

I saw your message about 2 weeks ago on deteriorating door seals. I had a '98 528 and I remember that the '97s had a problem with these. There is either a service bulletin and/or a replacement. Check the archives at bimmer.org

metmdx

Thanks for all your info. I might have to check out Darien the weekend after next (if I don't decide to go CPO before then)....
metmdx

elrod3

I've seen some talk about the ED and various pricing information. I'm thinking of a 540i ED and the dealer is telling me the "price is set by BMW" and they have no say. From the prior posts it appears to me you negotiate the best price and then ask for the ED discount? Or what approach did you use? In my mind ED simply changes the invoice and we negotiate from there.

Thanks

cmr530i

FYI The BMW owners manual does not recommend interaxle tire rotation because the tread wear patterns at the front end differ from those at the rear. "In the interests of safety and maintaining optimal handling characteristics, interaxle tire rotation is not recommended." Refer to pg. 152 of manual for more info.

habitat1

elrod3:

There are a few dealers out there that will give you a comparable discount off the european delivery price that they would have given you for a stateside delivery. I have been quoted between $1,500 and $2,000 over European Delivery invoice for a 530 or 540, which, depending upon optional equipment, equates to another $2,000-$3,000 discount off the ED price. I've priced out a 540i 6-speed at just under $50,000 (with premium hi-fi, shades, parallel wheels, NOT including navagation system). Check out www.eurobuyers.com for some more info and ED invoice prices.

cmr530:

Thanks for the info. I wonder if BMW's recommendation against tire rotation is new? I have a friend that has a 1999 528 (non-sport) that has his rotated religiously every 5,000 miles (by a reputable tire dealer). Guess I'll have to budget about $1,000 - $1,200 annually for tires whether I get a 530 or 540.

lgross

For whatever reason some dealers won't discount a Euro Delivery (ED) price below the BMW reduction. I've been told by one local salesman that they could never allow a BMW to be sold so cheaply regardless of what the dealer invoice is. All of the locals tell me that they are in short supply and have been allocated less than they can sell. In fact, there appears to be a pact among the local dealers in CT to operate that way and apparently that's not unusual.

However, you are correct. The dealer invoice is effectively reduced by the ED discount. You just need to find a dealer that will acknowledge that fact. I travelled 50 mi. to another state and found a dealer that sold me a 530i for $1450 over ED invoice and I never even negotiated. So there are dealers that will do it.

elrod3

Could you tell me the name of the dealer you got that price from? I'm in the NE also.

Thanks

infinitimn

I was in the same position you were with lease ending on a '98 528 with 30K mi. and 30,000 buyout. Although I finally decided to get a new 530, I was able to negotiate with the dealer to release the car for another 3 years and have the dealer CPO it, at about $115 less per month than I was paying. Because of the large number of such cars coming off lease with artifically high residuals, I think the dealer can buy it from BMWFS at less than you can, and the money factors are very low.

lgross

email me.

chesdin2

Though the question has been answered already above, I'll confirm with my two cents that dealers can and will discount ED, despite what some will tell you. And importantly, unless it's an M series, it does NOT come out of their allocation. No matter what they tell you.

Regarding ride & tires, my 530i w/ sport/prem has those Michelins, and I just finished a 350-mile drive from picking up the car stateside. Here's my opinion: Ride is perfectly OK (not too stiff), and interestingly, the tires are quiet on asphalt but make a whirring noise on concrete pavement. As the road surfaces change, it was strange having them go noisy, then quiet, then noisy again...!

(P.S. It was very hard going 75-ish today after driving the autobahns a few weeks ago!)

akuma1

Hey I went and sat in some cars today. Mostly cause we were shopping cars for my dad. (Maxima or 3.2TL?)

Anyways I got a chance to sit in a 540 w/sports seats today. The car really isn't that roomy especially in the back. The Mercedes E class (I won't even bother mentioning S class) is much roomier. Course when it comes to styling I think the the 5 is much better. I pretty much like the 5 but it's my mom's choice and she's not sold on the 5 yet.

About the tires. Are there any better all season tires to put in with especially good wet performance?

chesdin3

When I was shopping, I drove a 525i 5-speed, then a 540ia immediately afterward (he had no 530's in stock). No question the 540 is fast, but I stomped on the gas and held on and said to the salesperson "You know, it's not THAT fast..!" Especially when you consider the price difference. I was thinking "diminishing returns" when I decided to go with a 530i 5-speed. At least it breaks 7 in 0-60 time.

(Still happy w/ my choice.)

dantlo

How were you able to negotiate? They told me it is not negotiable. I could return it to the dealer and buy back at the residual that was set. To cpo it cost $1100 plus any extra repairs. I called BMWFN, they said to release it would cost more for another 3 yrs.
Thanks in advance.
Dan

infinitimn

Yup it was about $900-$1100 for CPO. I think that because the money factors for used 528's are heavily subsidized (maybe 5.9% or 4.9% in January) compared to new, the cost was much lower than the original lease. The same subsidized rates were/are available for purchase. You may need to ask your new car salesman once or twice when they're not busy and they will have to talk to the used car dept to run the numbers.

jls21

I have had my 530iA for about 4 weeks now. I'm wondering if anyone has had a similar observation about the ac and can offer any suggestions. It seems that when it is rather hot out, say 85 - 95 or so, and my car has been sitting outside for a while, when I get going and crank the ac, it seems to take too long to get cool air. I especially notice it if I am in stop and go driving, that when I slow down or stop, the air gets quite warm, then when I hit the gas and can actually drive for a short stretch, it begins to cool down again. Eventually, it does cool down as it should, but starting out has been challenging. Any ideas?

akuma1

Diminishing returns. For me I think 530 is worth the step up from 525 considering it includes many options stock that I otherwise would have gotten anyways. But the 540 is a step up in price even when you take the price of the comfort steats and DSC(an option here) in consideration.

As for for the price of a 540 you can seriously consider the MB E430 which may be a better car. As for the 530, at least you can argue that MB E320 is several thousand dollars up.

So right now I think we've limited our choice to 530/540 and E320/430 pretty much.

habitat1

akuma1,

For what it's worth, a buddy of mine who has test driven a few cars with me seriously thinks he should have gotten a 540i instead of his E430 last year. At the time he got the E, he was trading in another Mercedes and did not take the time to test drive a 5-series. He also presumed the E's larger interior (he's 6'4") was a necessity. However, after 20,000 miles of predominantly solo or two person driving, his attitude has changed. After our test drive of a 540iA (sport) and 540i 6-speed his own assessment of performance and handling was "no comparison". He is particularly dissapointed that his E430 "sport" package apparantly provides aesthetic improvements but no suspension upgrade.

Part of the reason I took him along was to get the added perspective of someone who is currently driving a great car. I'm glad I did and that he was honest.

As for the 525/530/540 diminishing return assessment, I agree with you completely. Even though I could comfortably afford the 540i, my conservative upbringing forces me to try to justify it on some sort of value basis. After extensive test drives of all, I almost have an easier time justifying jumping "over" the 540i to an M5. I keep coming back to the 530i as the best "sane" choice.

cmr530i

I too am bothered and perplexed as to why the A/C doesn't seem to kick in cold until I start to drive. (And it seems to take a few minutes at that.) The air coming out seems warm and humid when I start my car after being in the sun at work and also when I am at a stop if it hasn't had a chance to run for very long. The weather where I am in CA has been hitting in the 90's and it sure would be nice to get cold air right away. I will definitely be calling my salesperson on this issue. I'll post whatever I find out.

530iguy

Just curious...but I am on the verge of buying a 2001 530i for Euro delivery and I have been wondering what the average 530i owner or future owners make per year. Purchase only.

thanks

akuma1

I was told that people lease car nowadays rather than buy and that got me thinking about leasing again. I understand the general principles of lease vs buy. I'm thinking that buying is a good option if I intend to keep the car for a while but how many years will buying advantage kick in?

musafir

Check your central vents and the control knob on it. It has red and blue dots (at-least my X5 does), to get cool air you need to move the knob to blue dots. Just a suggestion-since it took me couple of weeks to figure this out.

cmr530i

My sales person said that BMW recognized the phenomenon with the A/C not being cold enough( after sitting in the sun for awhile) and thus created the MAX A/C button to quickly move out the hot air with a burst. He said there is a lot of ducting in the dash and the air sitting in there gets hot and needs time to flush out. He said to open the windows while using the MAX A/C button so the hot air has a place to go, as the car is quite air-tight. I will try this tomorrow as the temp. here should be in the 90's. Hope it works. Let me know if you find out anything else that might help.

cmr530i

Thanks for the tip on the central vents, but I am pretty sure I have them set to all three blue dots. I'll double check in the am. I will also try what I said in #885 to see if I feel any improvement.

rx2000

Does the 2001 5-series has cup holders for rear passenger. I heard that the previous model has it, but it is removed because of a lot of claim on the broken rear cup holder due to the kid step on it.

shaker58

removed in 2001

jls21

Thanks for commenting back on the A/C issue. It was into the 90's today in Boston, and humid, and I thought I was going to melt for about the first 10 minutes of my drive. I will try the max ac button with windows down to see if the hot air moves out faster. Other than that, I'm going to call my dealer to see what they suggest. I also have a client who is a technical rep for BMW North America - I will call him to ask for suggestions and will comment back to you. What color is your interior. Mine is black, which everyone says holds heat, but I am not happy about this, and can't believe that it is solely due to having a black leather interior.

cmr530i

My interior is black leather also, but I strongly doubt that has anything to do with the A/C problem. In fact, I am really rather pleased with the black and am surprised that it doesn't get hot unless it is direct sunlight, which only seems to happen on the driver's seat. Lucky me! I use the rear sunshades all day long to keep the rest of the car cool. I tried the MAX A/C button today with the windows down and it did blow out the hot air fast, but the cool air still did not come in fast enough. I drove about 5 minutes from work to pick up my son from school and when I was in idle the air became warm and humid again even on MAX. It wasn't until I drove without stopping for another few minutes that the air finally got cold. When it does chill down it really feels great! It's just getting to that point that is frustrating and uncomfortable. I would appreciate any word you can get on this issue.

dwight53

Does anyone know what will change on 2002 530i. Am considering Euro Del on a 2002 since I'm going there in late OCT with my company.

dantlo

I have a black 528 with grey leather, it is a lot cooler than my steel gray 325i with blk. I put my daughter in the back last weekend in the 325i and the back seat almost burnt my legs. The 528 is by far alot cooler even with blk exterior.
Try closing the vent (the button with the circle) see if that helps. I tinted my 325's window yesterday, I could already feel the difference. You might want to do that too especailly if you have a child to put in the car.
By the way, I live in Southern California. And it was almost 95 degrees last weekend.

cartesio

Complete ignoramus sitting here. Will someone please tell me what "cpo" means? I always thought it was "Chief Petty Officer!"
Thanx.

infinitimn

Certified Pre Owned

spyderred

I need some help. I have been researching extended warranties for about 3 weeks now and read about 1000 posts on edmunds as well as bimmer.org, and I am not sure who to go with. I have just purchased a 1998 BMW 528i (24,000 miles). It is still under factory warranty until the end of this year. I am planning on keeping the car for about 5 years and I usually put about 14,000 miles/year. I have looked at a lot of different companies, One Source diamond plan 60 month-100,000 miles $1849, Warranty Direct diamond plan 72 month-100,000miles $1800, Warrantybynet Premiere 72month-100,000miles $1239, and DFS (Dutch Financial Service) offered only through any BMW dealer for 7 years (total which means only 3 1/2 more years)-100,000 miles for $1750. All these companies offer the bumper-bumper plan with exclusion clause. They are all very similar as far as I could tell with minor differences. According to posters on bimmers.org site, DFS is supposed to be excellent and very stable (they will be there in 5 years since they are one of the largest financial institution). I didn't find any posters saying they had claims with DFS and how it went. So I am not sure what is the basis for their opinion.
I have read a lot of posts which made me exclude Warranty Gold. Talked with warranty direct on several occasions and just don't have a good feeling. Talked with One Source, several times as well and seemed very professional. Talked yesterday with a finance manager at a BMW dealer and he spoke very highly about DFS. I have my reservations about finance people and dealers, since I have dealt with many in the past. Some (if not most) tell you whatever sounds good and when you actually get the warranty paper work it doesn't cover what you thought it should. The finance person told me be ware that when the time comes to a claim, a lot of warranty companies will authorize the use of new, REFURBISHED or USED parts. This really disturbed me. If I am going to be paying close to $2000 for a warranty, I certainly don't want used parts or even refurbished unless the car is close to the end of its life or maybe has say ~85,000miles on it. He also said that DFS doesn't do that. He gave me a copy of DFS service agreement warranty booklet along with the brochure. Last night when I got home, i read it carefully. I was sure that I saw the same clause in the DFS contract regarding the use of refurbished parts, but this morning as I was writing the message i couldn't find it. I read it two more times from cover to cover but it wasn't there. I think I am loosing it. Been looking at this stuff for too long. Sorry about all the rambling. A few questions about One Source,

1. Do they have a cap on labor rates?
I am thinking of getting my car serviced at a BMW dealers and their labor rates are higher than average.

2. I would like to use original BMW factory replacement parts in case I have a claim. Will they pay for the whole thing or will I have to pay the difference between generic and the original BMW part?

3. I have tried to get an answer if my dealer would accept a third party warranty for repair claims but have not received a difintive answer? Can & Will they help esatblish this kind of retionship?

4. I talked with one repair facility and they mentioned that they have to receive payment prior to releasing the keys to the customer after the work is done. At what point do they pay for a claim? Obviously after the work has been performed. I just want to make sure that if my car is ready at say 7:00pm pacific time, and I need to pay for it someone in their office is available (Denver?) to pay for my repair bill.

5. If my dealer or any other repair facility doesn't accept payment from them, may I pay for it and get re-imbursed from them? How long will it take for me to receive payment? This is not my prefered choice but just in case.

I think I have narrowed my choices to two. Either, One source, or DFS.

I would like to hear some input from anyone who had a claim with either and how it went.

Thanks in advance and sorry for such a long message.

Spyderred.

pat

Welcome to Town Hall!

Did you happen to find our Finance, Warranty & Insurance Board? I believe there are active discussions there about both OneSource and Warranty Gold, and there may be others there as well that will interest you. I don't know whether they are talking about Dutch Financial Service, but you could start up a discussion about them if they are not already talking about that particular service.

Perhaps someone here will offer some suggestions as well.

Please also stick around in this discussion - we've got a good group of folks talking about these vehicles here, and I'm sure you'll enjoy the previous and current conversations.

Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards

maroon95

Is it possible to purchase a 525i sedan manual with just only the xenon option? Do dealers carry 525 with minimal options? Or is it orders only?

And do I have to pay for the metallic paint fee like on the 3-series?

Thank you for your advice.

sanand5

My '98 328i also has very poor AC (tan leather; Houston TX). The sales person at Momentum BMW was very quick in stating that all BMW's since 1999 have AC's that are 30% folder. I have a feeling (after reading about continuing AC problems) that most sales persons are just very well trained to answer these types of questions confidently even if their answers are not accurate. The sales person who stated that BMW invented the "max AC" button to fix this problem was probably doing the same thing. "Max" AC, on any other car I have owned, only means the air is recirculated instead of fresh. Obviously if the air in the car is 150 degrees, this may not be your best choice. Overall, I think that BMW's are great performance cars but their "convenience" features are geared towards European climates.

I looked at a Lexus GS430 specifically because of the above problem but I still prefer the 540. On the bright side, Houston summers last only 5-6 months.

I guess I would be interested to know if anyone has moved from a 3-series to a 5-series and noticed a difference in the AC (specifically a 540i).

jls21

Glad to see that I've started some lively conversation on A/C. Does anyone know if the rear roller shade option, which I don't have, can be installed by a dealer, or is it only available as a factory option. That might help a bit. Tinting the windows probably helps, too. I'm just not sure that I want to do that. I Always keep the moonroof shade closed when the car is parked. Someone mentioned something about a vent button - not sure that I understand. There is no doubt that once the cool air is coming consistently, the a/c system does an excellent job of keeping me cool. Unfortunately, I often do short drives during the day with alot of stop and go - not pleasant to feel the warm air rushing out. Thanks for your ideas. I'll post any other suggestions that I can come up with.

sanand5

There is a feature on the 540 that allows you to program a time at which the car automatically vents itself. Unfortunately you have to program an exact time for this to start and it lasts for approximately 15 to 30 minutes (for example every morning at 7 a.m.) It isn't something that you can switch on or off directly. I spoke to the salesperson at Momentum BMW after I noticed this feature in the brochure. He didn't know what I was talking about. He finally found one person who knew how to set it. After seeing how it works, I was disappointed. It is not the answer to our problems.