BMW 5-Series Sedans

dzuba

Duh - I gave the wrong website info out!

Check out Laurelbmw.com - 2001 540 CPO, Sport/Manual 21,000 miles for $44,500! Looks like no xenons - maybe I can add them later!

mseals

Shecky53,

I think part of it has to do with not having the car in my driveway, and part of it has to do with day light savings change. I normally get up at 6 am but now I am waking up af 5 am. I have tried everything though and nothing has changed. I attribute it to my new car purchase because every time I wake up I can't get back to sleep because I have the car on my mind.

sergeym

habitat1

You are going to drive yourself nuts looking at all of your 5-series options! I know I did last fall and finally just punted and got an S2000 to keep me happy while I drove my Maxima for another year or two.

Here's another option or two. A brand new 2003 530i 5-speed w/ Sport, Leather (but not premium package), Premium Sound, Xenons. Total price including destination & handling, $41,940. That's the deal I have on a European Delivery (priced out at exactly $1,500 over ED invoice). The comparable price on a 2003 540i 6-speed would be $51,810 (including premium stereo and gas guzzler tax). Yes, you have to add the cost of a trip to Europe, but for me it will be less expensive (and a lot more more cultural) than taking my kids to Disney World. I will be deciding on this in the next month or two.

P.S. The price on the 2001 540i 6-speed with 21,000 miles doesn't sound that good to me, since it's only about $8k less than I could get a brand new 2003 for. And that's a car I would want to break in myself.

craigd47

I have seen quite a few folks rave about the 17" wheels that come with the sport package. I guess I must be missing something. It looks like the 17" wheels have tires with a smaller sidewall giving about the same outside diameter to the tire as the 16" wheels. To me, that indicates no more tread touching the road. What is the advantage of the 17" wheels over the 16" wheels?

dzuba

You make a good point, and I like the price! Curious as to why no Premium Package in your set-up? No moon-roof right?

What is the ED webpage again please?

Timing might be better as well, as I could actually pick the car up in Mar/April when the snow is gone! With 3 kids at home, and my wife not fond of flying over water, I need to find someone to make the trip!

pap5

Craigd47, you're right about the total outer diameter of a 17" wheel + tire package being the same as for a 16" wheel. To achieve that, the tire sidewall is shorter, as you observe. All other things being equal, a shorter sidewall will result in a more responsive tire, at some sacrifice in ride softness. That is the primary advantage, plus the fact that the tire has a lower aspect ratio, i.e. a wider tread for a given section width, creating a slightly larger contact patch widthwise. Keeping total outer diameter the same for various size wheel/tire combinations prevents clearance problems (up to a point, until the tire becomes too wide) and the need to recalibrate speedometers, etc. The E39 has come with 15, 16, 17, and 18 inch wheels.

The other advantage is image -- 17" wheels look cooler.

mseals

if you think about what you just said then, consider that if the diameter is always going to be the same so you don't mess up the speedometer, think about this. The side walls are significantly smaller, meaning there will be less flex when the tires are pushed closer to the limits in turns and more stable at higher speeds. The rigidity of the tires is what adds to better handling.

snagiel

Pap5 touched on this, but to answer your question directly, the 17 inch wheels are equipped with 235mm-wide tires, and 16's are 225mm wide, so the 17's are 10mm (about a half inch) wider than the 16's, resulting in a bigger contact patch and more rubber on the road.

habitat1

For 2003, the moonroof is standard on the 530i. I picked leather alone over the premium package because I don't particularly care for the wood trim look that comes with it and the other gizmo's (homelink, autodimming, etc are not important to me). I even think I could live without leather, given the quality of BMW's standard leatherette.

I'm not going to be finalizing my order until after the holidays. My dealer thinks there is some chance, probably slight, that the M3 coupe will become available through the program. It can currently be picked up in Europe, but with no savings over US MSRP. The practical side of me says to go with the 530i no matter what, but I made the mistake of driving the M3 and still haven't got it out of my system. A March/April delivery date would also coincide with the best time to sell my S2000.

The ED website for pricing is "www.eurobuyers.com".

mod62

Any recommendations for after market product to protect my new baby witout looking ugly?

How do you remove the flashlight from the glove compartment?

I can not seem to program my garage door opener to the Homelink system. Could it possibly be too old?

I do not have the owner's manual for the garage door to check.

Thanks

snagiel

I recommend the Xpel headlight and paint-protection ("clear bra") system for protection from road debris while driving. For parking lots, I generally pick corner spots and slide up near the curb, which maximizes the space between my car and the next one over. I don't recommend just parking way the heck out there, since that draws more attention to the car and might lure in vandals, depending on where you're parked.

The flashlight pulls straight out.

Reset the homelink by holding down numbers 1 and 3 simultaneously for about 10-15 seconds (until the light flashes quickly). Then, hold your transmitter about an inch or two away from the buttons and depress its button, while holding down whichever number you want to program, again for about 10-15 seconds until the light flashes quickly. If it doesn't flash quickly, the signal is incompatible or too weak (new batteries may help).

pobrian

I know I've seen this topic covered multiple times in these forums, so I apologize for the redundancy, but...

What are some recommendations for the best products for routine maintenance and cleaning of leather, dash, and "wood"?

snagiel

Leather: Lexol pH Leather Cleaner, followed by Lexol Leather Conditioner

Dash and other vinyl parts: Lexol Vinylex

Wood: Just a damp cotton towel works well, and is what BMW recommends. Since there's so much laquer on it, wood protectors/waxes you use on furniture would be overkill.

pobrian

I know I've seen this topic covered multiple times in these forums, so I apologize for the redundancy, but...

What are some recommendations for the best products for routine maintenance and cleaning of leather, dash, and "wood"?

pap5

For the wood trim, adding a little dishwashing liquid to a bowl of water helps remove fingerprints and other smudges easily.

dzuba

Yesterday, I test drove the new G35 - nice car, nice ride, nice price, incredible acceleration, more inerior room than I thought from the outside.

Within 10 minutes - I drove an 02 530/Sport/Auto and I have to say it kicked butt hands down!! I would have bought it - had everything on it I wanted except Heated Seats. And at 45K w/8,000 miles on it, for an 02 that was not CPO and did not have heated seats - I will not do it!

Is it against BMW regs to CPO a 02 car? I did not push for it due to the lack of heated seats as I was not buying this car, but does anyone know?

I'll hold out for exactly what I want or buy new when the Snow melts!

snagiel

$45k? I love how dealers try to pass off used cars as practically new and knock $2000 off MSRP. Even if it was loaded to the gills, that's not a good price for the car. I wouldn't pay more than $40k tops, and even then I'd have misgivings about a used car...

As for the CPO, I'd assume/hope that they're just offering the rest of the original warranty. I can't recall all the rules CPO entails, but it may be "too new" for it.

dzuba

Actually they are asking $45,900 for a 2002 with 9k miles on it!

Check it out - motorwerks.com
Toledo Blue 2002

I'll buy new before I pay that.

mseals

Hey guys, I finally picked up my car last night. It is incredible. It is a CPO 98 528i 5sp, PP, Leather, Heated seats, wood trim, moonroof and a couple other things that slip my mind. It is taking some time to get use to the clutch, but I did a lot better today than when I picked it up, but that was mostly highway anyway. It is so solid and smooth, one of the quietest rides I have ever driven. I glanced down at the speedo on the highway and realized that I was doing 90 in a 70. I then realized that I will have to use the cruise a lot or constantly watch my speed. I am already playing the high mileage game with the gauges. I am hoping I can get close to 30, I do mostly cruise driving anyway. Man, I sure will say one thing, it is definitely a step up from the Civic that I bought pending my divorce in 2000. I wasn't sure how much money I was going to have to pay, so I went the super cheap route. Now that is over and donw with and all my debt it paid off, I finally got the car I have been dreaming about for 6 years. I love it but I am afraid that I now can't go to any other car.

pap5

2002@$45,900 w/9K for non-CPO! They must have built a lot of negotiating space into that price! If you're willing to go Euro Delivery, you can get a similarly equipped 2003, incl. the heated seats, for around $41,000 (assuming $1,500 dealer profit). Even factoring in the cost of the trip to Munich, you're coming in considerably under Motorwerks' price, for a brand new car.

jb_shin

It is amazing how these things perform at high speeds. Even at autobahn speeds (100~120 mph), wind noise is minimal, as well as the engine noise. I usually get about 23 to 24 when averaging 75 mph or so. It does not sound much, but when you consider that 20 to 30 % of the drive was above 100 mph, not too shabby. I don't think you will have problem getting 30 mpg if you keep it around 60 or so, but it would be very difficult in these cars.

dzuba

These are the ED numbers I found:

2003 530 -
38,225
500 - Xenon
1,450 - Leather
2,300 - Sport
700 - Cold Weather
695 - Destination

Total - 43870

Am I looking at the wrong numbers or what?
Thanks for the help!

pap5

You worked off the retail price list. Using the eurobuyers.com listing for "Confidential Wholesale Price," "Base Price Euro Delivery Price Munich Pick Up" column:

34,785 - 2003 530
1,210 - Steptronic*
455 - Xenon**
1,320 - Leather**
2,095 - Sport
545 - Cold Weather
695 - Destination
1,500 - Dealer profit

42,605 - Total

* You mentioned this originally, but not in your calculations above

** Not mentioned in your original post, so I didn't include in my original calculations - cost is $40,830 w/o these

The trick is to find a dealer that will work up from ED wholesale for a fixed profit - $1,500 seems to be an average. Not all dealers will do this, but quite a few will. If you're interested, you can get referals from members here and on the 3 series board.

dzuba

I never went to page two of the pricing - duh!

Thanks alot!

530 - 34,758
Xenon - 455
Prem - 2,095
Sport - 2,095
CWP - 545
Dest - 695
Dealer 1,500

Total = 42,143

I took out the Step, and added in the Premium!
US MSRP on this car = $47,495
Assuming I can maybe get $1500 below US MSRP: Price = 45,995

ED Savings = $3842.00
That might be worth a quick weekend!!

riez

The night before the election I was out putting up hundreds of yard signs in various areas around my town. About 2300 hours the battery conks out in my wife's '00 323iA. Night is cold, rainy, and a bit snowy. Decided I'd wait till morning to do something and got a ride home. Next morning it is sunny and nice. At 0800 I call BMW Roadside Assistance. Customer rep is friendly. They tell me it will be about 55 minutes. So after 50 minutes I go out to the site. Wait around 45 minutes. No one shows up. So I just jump it myself and go back home. I have a phone message that says they'll be out in 3 hours. I call BMW Roadside Assistance back and cancel the request. Then I answered their survey, giving them the lowest score.

My car was on the edge of my small town. Only 25 miles from downtown Omaha, Nebraska. About 5 miles from interstate exit and one mile from a major 4-lane divided state highway. It shouldn't have taken them 3 hours to respond. On Thanksgiving Day a couple years ago Ford's program had someone out to my parent's house in under an hour to fix my flat tire (nail thru it).

Has me wondering if BMW's Roadside Assistance network is meagre.

bodegajoe

My 2001 540i now has some 11000 miles on it and the dealer assures me that the first oil change is 15000 and the yellow light will come on. Does anyone feel that the oil should be changed before this as I feel that 15000 is a long time for the first oil change?

g_car

No problem with modern oils and filters no issue, the Jiffy Lubes of the world have folks brain washed into thinking 3K mile oil changes are needed. BMW wouldn't risk having to replace engines under warranty to save a few bucks on the oil changes. Just my 2 cents.

srfast

I am from the "Old School" and used to change the oil in my new car after 1,000 miles. I am expecting delivery of a 2003 530i in December, 2002 and asked my friend (who sold me the car) if the 1,000 mile oil change was necessary. He said it was not because BMW bench runs new engines for a period of time and changes the synthetic oil before installation in the car. He recommends an oil/oil filter change at 7,500 and then wait for the oil service light from that point.

Hope this helps...JL

snagiel

BMW actually recommends through service advisories (but not in your manual) that oil changes be performed when the yellow (or red) service light goes off, OR within one year of the last oil change (or purchase). Not all dealers (or service advisors, at least) are aware of this, but you're entitled to one if your car is more than 12 months old (which it must be, if it's a 2001).

billfalik

I am interested in purchasing a 530i in the San Francisco Bay area. Is there any price flexibility on the 2003 or do you have to settle for the dealer price?

habitat1

Go European Delivery. Check out www.eurobuyers.com for more info. Prices of $1,500 over ED invoice (confidential wholesale price) are possible. I have a friend who moved to Palo Alto from DC last year and he tells me the BMW dealers there are even more obnoxious that some of the ones here.

snagiel

I, too, have heard Bay-area BMW dealers are especially greedy. But, aside from ED, broadening your horizon to dealers in Oregon and SoCal will yield you much better deals. Jon Schafer at Cutter Motors in Santa Barbara posts often on the bimmer.org forums, and he's well respected and has sold many cars (at good prices) to members there. You should shoot for $1000-2000 above dealer invoice for a new model, no more. You may also consider the services of Steve Diamond (http://www.eurobuyers.com/), which, for small fee (a couple hundred dollars), he'll locate a dealer (potentially in an adjoining state) willing to give you a great price. The savings usually pay for the fee charged, and he too is well regarded. You might consider it if you're wary of negotiating or don't have the time to do a lot of research.

srfast

There was a thread on http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e39/ a few weeks back about Cutter offering any new E39 ordered this year for $1,500 above invoice. I would contact them for best deal on west coast.

Hope this helps....JL

riez

Reading the latest issue of Automobile magazine, 12/02 issue, got me thinking about the periodic discussions here about the 540i's steering, recirculating ball. Automobile's cover story is about what they call the "European Touring Car Championship" or the "Battle for the Title: World's Best Sedan!" No surprise, BMW M5 wins (over Audi RS6, Jaguar S-type R, and MB E55 AMG). But loved what they said about its recirculating-ball steering: "great steering" and "best steering, which is accurate, quick enough but never nervous, and very three-dimensional in the way it transmits messages to your palsm".

Methinks maybe recirculating-ball steering isn't the end of the [steering] world as we know it?

snagiel

It's funny you bring that up; I was reading the same article this morning, and that part caught my eye as well. It was particularly salient because the other three models had R&P setups. Nevertheless, I suppose this demonstrates that even a less-than-ideal design--once refined by the wizards at BMW--can beat out superior designs by competitors. I can corroborate their opinion to an extent; I haven't driven any of those models, but I have driven both a 540 and an A6 2.7T, and the Audi's steering certainly left something to be desired. It was a little overboosted and somewhat vague. (All in context of the BMW benchmark, of course; it was still much better than most cars I've driven.) At the end of the day, though, my 530 still had an edge over the 540 I drove. I suppose you'll just have to be content being better than the E55 AMG, RS6, and S-type R.

Kirstie_H

A journalist from a wire service is looking for comments about heated seats - do you really love them, or really hate them, or really hate having to pay for them in an option package? Please send your thoughts and daytime contact info to jfallon@edmunds.com by Tuesday, November 12 at 2pm Eastern.
Thanks!

riez

snagiel... Did you see the page 26 article in the same Automobile magazine issue discussing twelve possible future BMWs ("BMW's Dirty Dozen")? Plans reportedly to be discussed by BMW Board of Directors in 2003. There was a 5 Series hatchback. And a 5 Series-based MPV developed in conjunction with next X5.

Glad to see both AutoWeek and Automobile have raved over the new Z4's performance. If not entirely pleased with the styling. Especially pleased to see both raved about the Z4's "brand-new ZF 6-speed manual" transmission.

pap5

Saw one in the flesh for the first time last Monday - guy who works in my building traded his Z3 for a 3.0 over the weekend. Agree that it looks better in person than in photos, esp. w/18" wheels. Only objectionable element is the diagonal crease running to the base of the windshield.

snagiel

Yup, I saw that as well. You know, as much as I hate to admit it, the new 7's looks are growing on me. I'm not sure I "like" the styling yet, but it certainly makes the old (E38) 7-series look rather boxy and antiquated. I haven't seen the Z4 in the flesh yet (I will next week at my dealer's introduction, although I'm going mainly for the free hors d'oeuvres). But I sure hope it's more appealing than the pictures. I don't know specifically what I find objectionable about it, but the design just seems droopy and busy. The door and front fender design, in particular, seem unnecessarily complicated and whimsical. But who knows, maybe that will grow on me as well. I agree it's good that the driving dynamics have stepped up a notch; I look forward to trying one out. But here's what I'm really looking forward to seeing--and driving (as long as it doesn't have iDrive!):

dman11

Anybody know of any options for getting my new Apple iPod (MP3 player) to work in my 530? I went to a couple of car stereo places and they said "can't be done". There's no aux in port on the stereo. There's no tape player, so going the cassette converter route won't work.

Someone told me some CD changers that work with the BMW have an aux in line that may work. Anybody got any ideas?

habitat1

I have never looked into it, but I am guessing there is a difference between the 540i and M5 in the steering systems or set up. I found my 2000 540i very acceptable, but not as precise as the M5 (2002). I actually preferred the 530i sport handling slightly to the 540i 6-speed, but that may have also been partly the result of the lighter weight.

So, do either of you know if there is a difference between the 540i and M5 and/or difference between the 2000 and 2002 models?

riez

epn2... Believe you are correct. There are a lot of differences between the M5 and 540i6. Engine, suspension, clutch/transmission, and other differences. My MY 2001 BMW M5 full-colour brochure says the M5 has "Vehicle-speed sensitive variable-assist power steering with M Driving Dynamics Control (2 settings - throttle and steering)".

snagiel

I believe the steering hardware is the same between the 540 and the M5. The differences lie in the degree of power assistance (which is further sharpened with the "sport" mode on the M5), as well as the more aggressive suspension and wheel setup on the M5. Tighter suspension geometry and stiffer shocks and springs, as well as bigger wheels and tires, all contribute to sharper steering responses and feedback.

snagiel

Indeed, the BMW's i-bus electronics stymies many car stereo shops. But there is a solution. Actually, three of them. I only know the price of the first one, so you might want to call around and do some further research:

(This board doesn't let me post any "words" longer than 115 characters, so I had to split up the first and third URL's into two: just concatenate them)

Peripheral Electronics Pioneer CD Changer Adapter ($99):

http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-BcgqFnR1ciS/ProdView.asp ?a=0&s=0&g=42300&id=detailed_info&i=541BMWPILA

Soundgate Auxiliary Input Interface:

http://www.soundgate.com/products/aux-in/bmw.htm

Blitzsafe DMX V.1 AUXILIARY INPUT INTERFACE:

http://www.blitzsafe.com/blitz_catalog/ blitz_interfaces/blitz_installnotes/inst_bmwalp_dmxv1/inst_bmwalp_dmxv1.html

mseals

I don't know if I have posted this or not, I have been out enjoying driving again. I finally took posession of a 1998 BMW 528i with 80,000 miles on it. I is black with black leather interior. It has the premium pkg, power moonroof, heated seats and steering wheel and is in mint condition. The tires are new and the inspection II was just done. The car will need an oil change soon, but brakes are new as well. Other than that, the car is flawless, he had the local dealership take out the rock chips in the front of the car. I am coming up on my first car wash soon, we had some rainy weather and the car is looking a little dirty. My girlfriend did a great job of breaking in the car, she spilled a large taco bell cup of sprite on the passengers side after I just got done telling her that the cup holders wouldn't hold anything and that they were useless. She didn't listen to me and the carpet in the front and back was soaked. Oh well, just another excuse to get it detailed again.

All I have to say is one thing, I have never driven a car that makes power so smoothly. There have been numerous times when I have looked down and noticed that I needed to shift about 1500 rpms ago. But the car was so smooth and quiet about running at such high rpm's that I didn't notice. It is only slightly louder than a Lexus, which in my opinion is too quiet. It makes me feel like this car was custom made for me. I love it so much I actually went out for an hour long drive on Saturday for no reason. The car is awesome, I am truly spoiled now. I believe my next purchase will be a 3 series, maybe a coupe or something like that.

dman11

Great info. Thanks.

Have you (or anybody else here) implemented any of those three solutions? I'd be interested in knowing which had the best sound and easiest install.

jb_shin

When I test drove the M5 last month, I was quite a bit surprised by the steering feel. It was, or at least felt, so much lighter than that of my 530. Enabling "sport" mode did not make difference at all, although throttle response seemed sharper. The M5 has a servotronic system on top of the same set up used in 540 (which by the way is an option in other parts of the world), but frankly, I was disappointed.

jb_shin

I was thinking about doing the same. I do have the NAV screen with the tape deck. Since 2003 models do offer aux input as a dealer installed option, I am thinking either BMW changed the I-BUS interface or the stereo hardware itself. I am going to see which it is, and see if it would be a cost effective option on the 2002 model.

snagiel

I have "experience" only with the first one I mentioned (Peripheral Electronics). Which is to say, I bought it and tried it, but it didn't work for me because I have the DSP system and stubbornly hoped it would work with it (it didn't, and neither of the other two would either).

But I digress. In short, I've seen the unit, but it wasn't compatible with what I was trying to do. You might want to inquire on the Roadfly A/V forum for some feedback as well.