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Comments
Scott
Scott
Whew - noone EVER agrees with me!
- Ray
Relieved . . .
Includes a video.
What model Flowmasters? Thye don't list Bonneville (let alone GXP) on their website and they make several models that I suppose a muffler shop could make fit. I'd like some improvement in the sound, but don't want the roar at 65-70 that I used to get with my Trans Ams. I want to be able to hear XM radio and don't want to shout to have a conversation with my wife!
Bill
Scott
Scott
My muffler shop has done a lot of work for me over the years -- mostly on my Trans Ams, so they put a set of 40 series Flowmasters on the GXP for me a couple days ago on a trial basis. If I don't like the sound, they'll put the stocks back on. I wanted the 50 series, but they were too long. I kind of like the sound of the 40's and I kind of don't. I wanted more of a "rap" sound on acceleration and less of the "heavy" low frequency sound at idle and low speeds. And there is a bit of a drone at highway speeds. I could probably get used to the sound, but the real bottom line is my wife doesn't like the new sound at all. She was very happy that I finally "grew up" when I bought a Bonneville instead of another hot rod, so I imagine I'll be putting the stocks back on. There is one other possibility: Flowmaster makes a new muffler called a Hushpower II that is supposed to produce "mellow 50's sounds," but the muffler shop doesn't have any yet. One drawback is that they are longer than the 40's so they'd have to do some modification work to install them. I don't know. I'm not unhappy with the stock muffler sound--just wanted a tad more "rap" on acceleration.
Other than that, all I have done is install a K&N filter, and at first oil change I'm going to start using Mobil One.
And I agree on the gas mileage. What I'm getting on the GXP is not as good as on the SSEi, but better than on any of my TA's. I've made peace with the GXP mileage especially considering how much fun the car is to drive. I used to sell Infinitis several years ago, and there is a place just out of town here where I used to take customers to put Q45's through their paces--lots of acceleration strait-aways that run into lots of twisties, so you can get pretty aggressive jerking a car around those turns. The GXP suspension and those 18" wheels/tires and oversized rotors have really impressed me. Everybody who thinks RWD is the only way to go in a performance sedan needs to strap on a GXP one time and be surprised.
Bill
Scott
I tried out an RT, supposedly the top trim level. Of note, it had a Hemi and came with ESP. I couldn't test it as it should be tested: driving as though I had stolen it. But some things were easy to conclude.
The station wagon does the right moves and sounds, but the look and feel aren't right.
The handling is pretty solid and the suspension absorbs pavement irregularities smoothly and quietly. The engine pulls as a locomotive and is sounds really good. The transmission, however, is not too smart and sometimes would make awful jerks, especially when maneuvering.
The interior is quite roomy and the materials are mostly of good quality. I mean, the roof was nicely fitted with a fabric-like molding, but the doors were finished with not-so-soft plastic, really cheap-looking. The same plastic was used on most of the dashboard and the console sported hard plastic. But the lower in the interior you go, the cheaper the plastic. But, worse, poorly manufactured plastic, with barbs and all.
The dashboard was pretty ugly and the gauges, too small. The unit I drove also had a misaligned steering wheel.
For a $32 grand-car, such defects, the lack of an automatic AC and poor build quality don't bode well...
I haven't checked out the GXP yet, but based on my SLE, which looked much nicer and was much better built than the Dodge, the Bonneville would still be my choice, even though it's 60HP short.
1. What does the Oil Life Indicator use to determine how much life is remaining? The owners manual says it looks at temperature and rpm. Anyone have any more specifics about the algorithms used?
2. Any experience out there with synthetics and the GM 3.8 V6? Good, bad, brand, etc?
Thanks
Desertrat
Also learned that Pontiac did not intend to supply a gas cap tether strap retainer despite the stamping on the fuel filler door and the info in the owner's manual.
I switched over to Mobil1 10-30 at roughly 5000. Main reason is for the better protection at start up. You hear some lifter noise on start up on some 3800s, but I've not heard it on mine. Also, I used to change every 3K, now I generally follow the monitor and change between 6 and 7K. Some people do stretch the mileage more with synthetic, but without oil analysis, you're taking a chance. I just use it for added protection and less time under the car.
I do my own changes. The Bonneville is a breeze. The filter is very accessible. Remember that with a filter, you are usually looking at 4 1/2 Qts. with the filter. 5 qts. would overfill in my experience with the 4 vehicles I've owned with the 3800. If you change yourself, keep the receipts for the oil and filter in case you ever have to fight GM for a warranty issue.
I've never used any oil to speak of using the 6 to 7K change interval.
GM's oil life algorithm takes into account engine speed, temperature, engine load and a few other factors to determine how long your oil is likely to last. A safe bet is to change your oil (even synthetic) at or near the 50% oil life remaining point. This works out to about 3,000 miles if you do a lot of city driving, or 6,000 miles if you do mostly highway driving.
By the way, consider running the longer PF-52 oil filter. It will increase your system capacity to a full five quarts.
Regarding the 2004 GXP trunk inflator being inoperable, my new car has the exact same issue, but none of the local dealers can locate any information regarding what the cause might be, or what module needs to be updated. Does anyone have a TSB or anything I can reference?
Scott
Scott
I understand that it has a stiffer suspension than the other Bonneville models, but I think what I am feeling is not from the road surface because it is the same on all types of roads.
Additionally, does anyone have any different tires than Goodyear Eagle RSA 235 50 R18's?
Joe
Scott
The tires had slight wedging wear on the small blocks of rubber at the edges. I had told the dealer that on long upgrades on smooth interstates with high loads on the engine I would get increased feel of out-of-balance from the car. I am picky too. I have X-Ones on my other car, so I'm used to round, well-balanced tires.
I'd really take at a look at the tires themselves because of the short height of the sidewall.
Have the two rears been moved to the front same side? Then have the tires been moved left to right on fronts? Then move the left to right on the rear to trouble shoot to find a tire problem.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Bob in Glendale
Document ID# 1455223
2000 Buick LeSabre
Shake/Vibration in Steering Wheel, Floor, Seat at Highway Speeds on
Smooth Roads (Diagnose/Balance Tires/Wheels) #00-03-10-007F - (02/05/2004)
Shake/Vibration in Steering Wheel, Floor, Seat at Highway Speeds on
Smooth Roads (Diagnose/Balance Tires/Wheels)
1998-2004 Buick Park Avenue, Park Avenue Ultra
2000-2004 Buick LeSabre
1998-2004 Cadillac Seville (SLS, STS)
2000-2004 Cadillac DeVille (DTS only)
2001-2003 Oldsmobile Aurora
2000-2004 Pontiac Bonneville (17" Tires only)
This bulletin is being revised to add the 2004 model year and delete the
screened tire program information for all tire manufacturers except for
Continental General. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number
00-03-10-007E (Section 03 - Suspension).
Condition
Some customers may comment on shaking/vibration in the steering wheel,
floor or seat while driving at highway speeds (typically between 60-72
mph (96-115 km/h)) on smooth roads.
Cause
These specific vehicles may be sensitive to various rotating mass
assemblies, especially if they are considered to be out-of-balance.
Correction
1. Visually inspect the tires and the wheels. Inspect for evidence
of the following conditions and correct as necessary.
* Missing balance weights
* Bent rim flange
* Irregular tire wear
* Incomplete bead seating
* Tire irregularities
* Mud/ice build-up in wheel
* Stones in the tire tread
2. Set the tire pressure to 30 psi (205 kPa) COLD.
3. Road test the vehicle with the Electronic Vibration Analyzer
(EVA) essential tool for a sufficient distance on a known, smooth road
surface to duplicate the condition. Record the Hertz (Hz) reading as
displayed by the EVA onto the tire data worksheet found at the end of
this bulletin. This should be done after a tire break-in period of at
least 10 miles (16 km) at 45 mph (72 km/h) or greater, in order to
eliminate any possible tire flat-spotting.
4. If the road test indicates a shake/vibration still exists, check
the imbalance of each tire/wheel assembly on a known, calibrated,
off-car dynamic balancer. If any assembly calls for more than ¼ ounce on
either rim flange, remove all balance weights and rebalance to as close
to zero as possible.
Important
Some GM dealers may have a Hunter GSP9700 Road Force Balancer.
This will simplify Step 5 by not requiring dial indicators. If a Hunter
GSP9700 machine is available, it may also be used to measure the radial
force of the tire/wheel assembly. A guideline here is 18 lbs or less.
5. While on the balancer, measure wheel runout. If radial or lateral
runout exceeds .020 in (0.50 mm) for aluminum wheels (.030 in (0.76 mm)
for steel wheels), replace the wheel.
6. After confirming wheel balance and wheel runout, if any changes
were made, road test the vehicle again.
7. If the smooth road shake/vibration still exists:
*
Important
The completed worksheet must be attached to the hard copy
of the repair order.
Record Radial Force Variation readings if you have access
to Hunter GSP9700 Wheel Balance equipment. Use the worksheet found at
the end of this bulletin to record the readings.
* If one or more of the tires have RFV readings in excess of
18 lbs, match mount the tires to get below 18 lbs. Readings of 12 lbs.
or less are preferable for critical customer concerns.
* If the RFV can not be reduced to an acceptable level,
replace the affected tire with one obtained locally.
* The screened tire program is no longer in effect for
Bridgestone/Firestone, Goodyear and Michelin. Low speed screened tires
are available from Continental General only, and only for the Buick LeSabre.
* Road test the vehicle to ensure the shake/vibration has
been resolved.
8. Replace both lower control arms on vehicles built prior to the
following VIN breakpoints. On Aurora, Bonneville, DeVille, Park Avenue,
Park Avenue Ultra and Seville models, a newly developed hydro-bushing
lower control arm with improved damping characteristics has been
released. This control arm is not used on the LeSabre. The new lower
control arms may provide an incremental improvement to the vehicle ride.
Customers who have become "tuned in" to the shake condition may still
feel some shake in the vehicle after the new lower control arms are
installed. Refer to Lower Control Arm Replacement in SI (refer to the
Parts Information table below for SI document ID numbers).
Important
THE CONTROL ARMS SHOULD ONLY BE INSTALLED ON VEHICLES IF, AFTER
THE TIRE AND WHEEL DIAGNOSIS AND REPAIRS HAVE BEEN PERFORMED, THE
VIBRATION CONDITION STILL EXISTS.
Model
VIN
Park Avenue
34175493
Seville (SLS, STS)
3U247643
DeVille (DTS only)
3U247644
Aurora
34175503
Bonneville
34175497
Parts Information
P/N
Description
SI Document
25746324
Lower Control Arm, Left (Aurora, Bonneville, DeVille, Park Avenue, Park
Avenue Ultra, Seville)
Aurora -- 639351
Bonneville -- 657809
DeVille w/FE1, FE3 -- 724856
DeVille w/FE7 -- 724858
Park Avenue, Park Avenue Ultra -- 657760
Seville -- 539332
25746325
dessertrat: Are the hydrobushed control arms already on the other vehicles but not on the LeSabre as OEM? Why not? Exactly what are those -- how are they different?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/jedlicka.aspx?modelid=11018&- ;src=Home&pos=Edit3
I infer that the tire companies have not kept up with quality roundness in the rolling of their tires to match the shorter sidewalls of 65 and lower series tires. This is being picked up by lighter unsprung parts under the car (A-arms in my car's case) that are lighter aluminum alloys and thus don't absorb the slight vibrations they used to absorb with their mass. This vibration is then passed into the unibody of the car.
Tire companies have to improve their product. They have been doing minimal quality and selling it because they could get by with that.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'm afraid, however, that driving precision will suffer a bit. But it's worth it, IMO. The vibration has been annoying me.
When I purchased my Bonnie, I also tried a LeSabre. Liked it very much but the seats didn't suite my back as well as the Bonnie. Anyway, the salesperson said that they had a significant reduction in tire related issues when Buick started putting Michelins on the higher line LeSabres.
How will interior room of new GXP rate versus a newer Bonnie?
And you're right, it's a tad wider, but also a tad shorter and the rear seats offer actually less headroom than the Impala.
The Impala is a solid car, but not as appealing from either inside or outside, IMO.
To re-phrase, what is the interior room of the new, restyled Bonnie like in comparison to the model it's replacing?
Imp may not be much to look at, but it's very comfortable, esp. to someone going 6'3", 300lbs.
I did a side by side comparison on MSN Autos of my 98 SSE,
a 2000 SE which I owned prior to getting a 2003 Grand Prix and the 2004 GXP
The 2004 GXP has 103.80 CU FT, the 2000 SE has 104.40 Cu Ft and the 98SSE has 108.80 CU Ft of passenger room.
Again, these are figures from MSN Autos- side by side comparison.
The volume rating can be misleading, in my opinion, but the hip and shoulder room tell the difference to me. Even there the shape of the door can leave a lot of room while the hip measure can be narrowed down. It is somewhat relative to perception sitting in the car.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
*all measurements in inches*
98 SSE 2000SE 04 GXP
Front Headroom: 39.20 38.70 38.70
Rear Headroom: 38.30 37.30 37.30
Front Leg Rm: 42.60 42.60 42.60
Rear Leg Rm: 38.80 38.00 38.00
Front Shoulder: 60.20 59.00 59.00
Rear Shoulder: 59.80 58.50 58.40
Front Hip: 57.20 55.70 55.70
Rear Hip: 56.90 56.40 56.40
From these numbers, the 2000 and 2004 are almost identical(2000 to 2004 style)
The 98 SSE has a larger interior. (older style 92 to 99)
202.1 WHP (252.6 crank horsepower) @ 5,700 RPM (8% less than advertised)
216.3 WTQ (270.4 crank torque) @ 4,200 RPM (10% less than advertised)
The V8 sure does SOUND good on the dyno though...
Scott
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Interesting in that both the Custom and Limited Edition for 2003 have the same identical numbers in regards to individual stats (ie)front head,rear head etc and also to total passenger Cu Ft- which is 107.60- however, your 98 Le Sabre's have two different sets of numbers depending on if its the Custom or Limited Edition- also the total passenger volume is different- the 98 Buick Custom is 108.50 Cu Ft and the Limited is 109.20 Cu Ft.- both are again larger than your 2003.
Again- these are the numbers from MSN Auto- used vehicles, compare- side by side.