2011-12 Optima

conwelpic

must be the area where you live, but here in Canada I haven't come across a KIA dealership yet (and travelled a good portion of the country) that remotely matches what you described. A lot of the dealership have been upgraded to the corporate standards but even the smaller ones (like mine) are still well presented and offer all the facilities.
On my travels in the US, I can't say I noticed any dealership as you describe.

wolverinejoe80

this is a mind boggling achievement for Kia.

I've seen k5 in person. It's absolutely stunning car. I have a soft spot for Sonata, but I must admit Optima looks better than Sonata. I must give props to Peter Schreyer. dude is like a design rock star.

wolverinejoe80

and i have to say Optima is the best looking sedan under 30k IMO. oh by the way, I recently test drove Sportage. Kia is no longer vanilla. it absolutely leap frogged my 08 santa fe in styling, execution and overall ride quality.

m6user

As much as I am liking Kia product of recent vintage I also have to agree that Kia dealerships are dumpy in comparison with other in the vicinity. I have two of them that I sometimes spend time at on a Sunday afternoon of looking at cars without the salesman hassle and I have to say both are very much what was described. Holes in parking lot, very little inventory, run down maintenence on the building, etc. I don't really know what the dealerships used to be but I have noticed that they have done some improvements in the last year.

It's amazing what a little good product can do for sales, what that can do for profit and what that can do to generate a little extra money for maintenence to the facilty. They should continue to get better I hope.

dash5

I would think that's to be expected, Kia dealers being lesser quality. They were hardly a big seller in the US to my knowledge and what they did sell was value brand. So it certainly fits.

That said, hell I'm ready to be a Kia dealership owner myself. I'm no salesman but I could make the case for the Optima all day long. Same for the Sportage and the upcoming Cadenza. I'd have to bone up on their other cars heh.

Around me though there are some as part of a multiple dealership lot that seem quite good. Others are a bit more run down. This is based on simply driving by, I've not been to any yet in person.

gregg_vw

You are aware Hyundai is recalling some new Sonatas for a steering defect? Cars have been manufactured for over 100 years and there are still first year "bugs" from every manufacturer.

We don't agree here.

Nope. We don't. That steering issue could just as easily crop up in year 4 as year 1. Manufacturers test the heck out of their new models before releasing them now. That is a BIG change from some years ago, when testing and retesting was not nearly so comprehensive.

This is only anecdotal of course, but I have owned many vehicles, but since the mid-1990s, I have had no first year model problems whatsoever. Problems that have cropped up have been on a model that had been out for 4 years.

dash5

The first year thing is my only concern with the Optima. That and I want the UVO in it, and they typically refine the cars more over the years. That said I agree with Gregg, the testing is very comprehensive and all cars go through small recalls like this. I know I've gotten at least 4 notices of things on my 2001 Jetta over the years. From small things like Hazard light switches to larger things like the brakes.

markleung

Ouch. Even if it is 60 days from today, that means no car for me for at least a week or two when my lease runs out. I guess it is worth the wait.

backy

Dealerships vary widely. I can say for a certainty that my local Kia dealership is as good in every respect as my local Hyundai dealership... because they are the same dealership. The next closest Kia dealer to me is in a joint Nissan/Kia store and is a modern, clean facility (and the sales staff is very good--I've shopped them). I don't doubt there's poor Kia dealerships... just as there's poor Hyundai dealerships, poor GM dealerships, poor Ford dealerships, poor Honda dealerships (esp. wrt sales practices), etc.

chrono

http://www.wickedlocal.com/norfolk/news/business/x861580746/Paul-A-Eisenstein-Ge- t-to-know-the-new-Kia-Optima

backy

Pretty good summary, although when I read the first sentence I wondered about the writer's knowledge of the car market (or his proofreading skill maybe)--emphasis added by me:

Few cars have done more to change a brand’s image than the sleek and surprisingly fun to drive 2010 Hyundai Sonata.

m6user

What? You didn't like the 2010 Sonata?

backy

Oh sure, nice car, but exactly the same car as the 2009 Sonata and not a lot different from the 2006-8 Sonatas. Not worth calling out by year. Now the 2011 Sonata... that is definitely sleek. The author should go check it out. (wink)

markleung

Road and Track

dash5

So late october for the Optima and 60 days later if that other article is to be believed, the turbo. Sound right?

Oh and:

"The new cabin is spacious and equipped with every expected near-luxury feature, including very Sync-like navigation and concierge electronics Kia calls UVO."

Yet Edmunds said:

http://blogs.edmunds.com/strategies/2010/08/2011-kia-optima-and-2011-kia-forte-5- -door-drop-by-edmundscom.html

"Highlights include the new nav system (with Kia's (UVO) take on the Microsoft/ Sync multi-media setup due later in the model year), "

m6user

I really don't think you can hang your hat on what these auto writers say. They all read each others stuff and sometimes I wonder if they even sat in or drove the car sometimes they are reviewing or just regurgitating some other writers comments to a large degree. Everything I've read indicates they haven't integrated the two systems yet. Even if they did come out together(NAV and UVO) soon I would worry about glitches and subsequent frustrations.

Now, maybe by the time the turbo comes out the bugs will worked out. (fingers crossed)

dash5

Good point. I just read a Motor Trend article telling me a V6 was coming soon for the Optima. I think I know more about this car than most of them.

conwelpic

just got the production figures and it doesn't look like we are going to get many units for a while. They have started up the export production in August after not producing any for July, but in August they only built 882 units for export (possibly about 2 units for each dealer in North America). They built 8,100 (K5) for their domestic market.

m6user

That wouldn't shock me. I realize they deal with many cars but I keep up on a lot of cars too and I don't do it for a living. Kind of like the auto salesman that you have to enlighten about the car you're buying. The dealerships should make them read nothing but model reviews in their downtime so they can learn a little about the product they're selling!

conwelpic

I visited the Kia Canada head office showroom in Mississauga, Ontario and was surprised to find the new Optima on display. However, because it was a pre-production model it was locked so difficult to get inside shots, but a stunning looking vehicle in the "flesh"

m6user

Thanks for the pics. Boy, the bottom half of the trunk lid sure looks bare. Good thing there will be a license plate to break up some. It does look good and that's the the third or fourth different set of wheels I've seen. These don't look too bad.

dash5

Very cool indeed. Thanks for posting these it looks great. I know you're following this car very closely, so is this the first time you've seen one in person? Live up to your expectations?

conwelpic

Yes its the first time, I thought I would have to wait till one arrives at the dealership. Like I said above its a stunning vehicle, and I would say more impressive that what the pictures can present. I would say it will do extremely well in the market when it arrives and I'm guessing it could end up being a supply problem, similar to what's happened with its corporate cousing, the Sonata. The Optima is far more agressive look over the Sonata, but thats good because the old models looked too much alike, they were not distinctive enough on its own merits.

dash5

Glad to hear it. Sometimes a car can look very good to you but still not live up to expectations. I think that's my big concern right now with the Optima having followed it so closely heh.

A new article:

http://blog.caranddriver.com/10best-surprise-2011-kia-optima/

"We expected the Hyundai Sonata variants—2.0 turbo and hybrid—to be impressive, but perhaps the biggest surprise of this year’s 10Best tournament, at least for me, is the Optima, Sonata’s Kia Cousin. The Sonata, you’ll recall, has been busy proving that slick styling is definitely appropriate in the mid-size-sedan segment, a design that stands out in this conservative category. All things being pretty much equal, good looks helped to give the Sonata a winning edge in its comparison test face-off against a Honda Accord, the perennial class champ, last May.

So it was hard to imagine that another car using the same foundations could rival the Sonata at its own game. But that’s precisely what the Kia does. The exterior may not be quite as eye-catching as the Sonata’s, but I rate it as more elegant, and in any case it certainly doesn’t fade into the background. And its interior décor wouldn’t look out of place in a car costing $10,000 more.

Add dynamic responses that are actually a shade more athletic than the Sonata’s, plus feature content and bargain pricing, and the Optima emerges as hard to resist.

Now for that turbo version they’ve promised us."

dash5

http://www.kia-newoptima.com/

Good stuff. The wheel choices are interesting, and, it looks really good with tan interior.

m6user

You know what my main concern is? This car almost seems too good to be true. It has all the bells and whistles, style, power, price, etc. etc but will it hold up over 5-7 yrs time or will it be a constant rattle, squeak, minor breaks that cause so many trips to the dealer for warranty service that it drives you nuts? Then after the bumper to bumper ends it just starts falling apart.

I really like it but it almost seems that Hyundai-Kia has got here too fast. I'm not knocking the brand at all but it took Honda and Toyota about 20 years to get to where they were really solid and Hyundai-Kia has really only came on the last ten years. Now new engines, bodies, accessories, technology, all almost at once. Not to say it can't be done with the right organization and decision making but it's a little scary to me. I'm hoping they got it right.

dash5

Yeah I know what you mean. I'm almost considering a lease just because it's a 1st year model... however... when i try to step back and look at it rationally, it's really a series of incremental improvements that add up to a lot.

By the time this comes out the engine and underpinnings, in the Sonata, will have been on sale in Korea for over a year. The K5 will have been around since May in Korea. The way I am looking at it it's almost a mid year production. Assuming they are adapting to any issues that pop up, which you'd think they would.

I dont think there is a greater chance of an annoying issue in the new Optima than there is in any new model year car by a major manufacturer. I'd also say that if they're even half paying attention they'll have caught any minor issues before production in the US based on the K5 and Sonata performances.

Then again, I'm clearly biased because I really like what I see with this car.

m6user

I hope you're right but I can see how your bias(lovin' that car) is tending to make you lean a certain way in your rational. I could take the exact opposite side and make just as much sense. Both arguments make sense. The only thing I would argue is that 1 year on new engine/drivetrain is a very short time. The turbo will have a lot less time than that in service. VW is having problems with a HPFP(high pressure fuel pump) that is blowing and causing $6k-10k rebuilds with it's TDI engine that is in it's third year. Not showing up til around 50-60k miles from what I read.

I fully realize that the warranty is there on the Kia (which it is not on the VW), but to me time is money and I don't want to have to spend a lot of time at the dealer. I've been kind of spoiled wth my current 3 vehicles so maybe I'm oversensitive in this area.

dash5

I'm pretty spoiled too and I own a 2001 VW Jetta. If cars in service 3 years are having trouble then what can you do? I've decided that unless I hear bad things in reviews or dont like it in person after a solid test drive, I'm not going to let the 1st year thing factor in very much. If there is another car out there I like nearly as much that's a different story of course.

I can live with a few flaws so long as they are fixable.

m6user

I kind of like your leasing idea. Have never leased before and in IL you have pay a ton of sales tax upfront(I believe on the whole sale price, not total of lease payments) which has turned me away from leasing. But in this case it may make sense. If the car is great and you love it, either buy it or turn it in and buy a 2014! That's food for thought.