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Comments
Indie suspension is no big deal. Okay, that's why you're not going to find a single sports car with a solid beam rear axle. Who still uses that? VW, Ford on some models of mustang and Chevy's now defunct F-body. That's it. Even the blasted Explorer and Expedition have IRS. Again, just like the Xenons take one out for a REAL drive (ie two to three times the legal limit) and tell me the indie suspension is overrated or doesn't make a difference...it gives you a smoother ride, better handling and much better at-the-limit control.
4 years of FREE scheduled maintenance on the entire car. You only have to pay for tires and brakes (if you go through them) over the course of 4yrs/50k miles. and yes it's transferable upon sale.
The true sports package on the A4 lowers the car (lower center of gravity = better handling) and supplies wider tires (235 v. VW's 225s). Of course mixed with the superior indie suspension you get a smoother riding, better handling car.
Go drive one. You'll there's a quantum leap from a VW to an Audi. curiously though, VW doesn't see many people switch up to the Audi brand. Personally, I think it comes from VW buyers perceiving their brand to be almost as good and therefore not willing to fork over 5k more for a better car.
And I drove a 2002 Maxima with the Xenons, where they are standard equipment, not a $500+ option. They are nice lights, but I hate having everything lit up in blue in front of the car. And those lights also blind oncoming drivers as well.
The Audi is a very nice car though, BTW, Edmunds themselves said about the difference between the A4 and Jetta, that was not my saying.
As for true sport packages, I wholeheartedly agree, I test drove cars with a friend, and the sportiest (sport package, no luxury package) Jetta with the 1.8T was a wallowing whale compared to the base, non-sport Audi A4. The sport A4 was a dream! This person ended up buying a base A4 (non sport) with CVT, because it represented the best compromise to him! Ride a Jetta and an A4 back to back, it isn't funny what different animals these two are in the twisties! Where the A4 fels perfectly dialled in with BMW-like steering and handling, the Jetta provides uncomfortable amounts of body roll (particularly for passengers in the seats-on-stilts high up in the back of your Jettas
And oh - don't even begin to compare the Passat to the A4. While its sportier than the boring Accord or Camry (but still no match for the Altima or upcoming Mazda 6), that is still a mid-sized, heavy sedan, and does not have the road manners of the A4 (or the Jetta, even!)
I couldn't care less for Xenons, but given the choice, would prefer to have them for the improved range and brightness.
The 4 year maintenance is a huge plus, especially given that it will be at a classy Audi dealership service bay, not the mean, snide and unhelpful (anecdotal, don't kill the messenger!) VW service departments.
I was fairly impressed but, couldn't let the saleman know everything I was thinking.. The interior materials seemed good overall, except maybe the hard plastic on the dash (which I can get used to). Question, What would be a good price on a 2003 Jetta GL 5 speed? ? The msrp is around 17400 now, btw, for those that were wondering , I am a guy.. ; )
I used to have a Civic which had independent front and rear suspensions (I think), and now have a Jeep Wrangler which has solid front and rear, and for good reasons.
I really don't care for the blue light specials, and it is probably a fad which will go away anyhow. Besides, I disagree with the cost, or rather, it disagrees with me.
When the time comes to replace the 1996 Jetta, maybe in another two years or so, we will look at another Jetta, but I doubt it. Most likely will look at a Grand Cherokee or Trooper.
So brighter lights, slightly better handling and free oil changes is worth $7k more for comparable equipment , NOT
You probably have 5% of the population that would go for that, hence the VWs sales vs the Audi's. Comparable vehicle + prestige = Audi cost justification
BTW.....I'm a guy too!!
One more thing...are ypou looking into buying or leasing? I got a tremendous deal on a lease. VERY LOW PAYMENTS. If oyu want more info just let me know.
What hard plastic are you talking about?
Didn't you say that you agreed with Edmunds with regards to the Jetta vs. A4 just a couple posts above (post 7392)? Sooo...it might as well have been your saying it. BTW, when are you getting your RSX?
"Indie suspension - I think you own a Honda Civic or something, you therefore don't appreciate the value of an independent rear suspension"
The Civic does have a independent rear suspension and has had one for quite some time. The latest generation Civic did change from a wishbone type setup to strut in the back though. Maybe that's what you were thinking about?
The paint still beads water to a degree. I took delivery in Feb 01. I have not put anything on the paint. Sand and pebbles from ice storms and poorly covered dump trucks are an issue so I have to do a touch-up inspection every 6 mos. The clearcoat does a pretty decent job of keeping stone chips from getting down to the actual color coat. I don't want a bra for it. Windshield has taken a slight beating though with many tiny pits.
For the friend that thinks that BG-Pearl looks like baby whatever, it's ok, they do make more than one color available for your preference.
Monthly payment: $187.00 (includes tax)
36 month lease, $1000 down which included first month payment, etc....
I get compliments about how my car handles from WRX owners if that's saying something....and it's with 15" rims.
The sports suspension package adds really the VW/Eibach springs which do lower the car slightly.
Thanks!
the A4 is nice. it is a VW product, after all! i love the way it looks. haven't driven a new one yet. the older ones were fun, but in the shop all of the time from what my two friends said.
Trouble was, I needed two cars, one for me and one for my wife. I drove the Jetta (with the five-speed and the two-liter 4cyl) and found that, for the money, it was a comparable car with respect to driving fun. So I bought two of them (for between 16 and 17 thousand dollars each, I think, GLS).
Been very happy with them. Lucky, I guess, with respect to reliability, since I read quite a few posts from owners who've had problems. But with 50,000 miles on one car, and 33,000 on the other, reliability and repair costs have been only what I expected.
After 12 years or so of driving Hondas and a few other makes (Saturn, Volvo), I just purchased a 2002 Jetta GLX (VR6-200hp) w/Tiptronic. After 1 week of ownership, I can honestly say I've never enjoyed a car so much! I traded in a 2001 Volvo V70 (too many reasons to list on that one
Anyway - here's the details on the purchase : $21,900 (yep - $5500 off sticker) - financed over 5 years minus the trade allowance on the Volvo comes out to a very reasonable $360/mo, a substantial savings over the Volvo.
My *only* reservation about this car from the get-go has been the unknown of reliability, since I've been a Honda driver for so many years. All my research showed that VW has come a long way in quality over the last 5-10 years, and I should expect many years of trouble-free driving. Any other GLX or older VR6 owners care to comment?
Justin--"i guess an independent suspension looks great on paper, but in the real world, why pay more?"
You don't have to pay more to get an independent rear suspension. Just don't get a Jetta or a Sentra. Arguing that there is no difference between the two suspension designs is plain ridiculous. All other things being equal, if your Jetta had IRS, it would ride better and handle better guaranteed. You don't have to believe me, but that's just the way it is. That's a fact, not an opinion.
I am sure the A5 platform will have it. I am very excited about the new one, especially after reading the Vortex about it last night.
(just do a little more research next time)
If solid beam were as good or better then BMW, Ferrari, Porsche and every other performance oriented company would offer that suspension. You can only compensate so much for a solid beam rear axle before you get either the 3 wheel phenomenon in corners or even scarier, the backend hopping. I've had it happen in my Jetta...nothing quite like the back of your car bouncing around a corner. Take a corner real hard and hit an undulation in the road with one back tire and your whole backend will take flight. It's freaky and it's something that only happens with solid beam rear axles.
BTW, none of this applies to trucks.
The Protege I had didn't lean as much as the Jetta does in corners, but that's springs and not the IRS in the back affecting that. I can't wait to get the Neuspeed bar for the back.
The other thing with a beam axle suspension is packaging, takes up less space, so you get more interior cargo room.
The Maxima has the rear beam suspension also.
You'd think the Jetta would have a decent sized back seat then wouldn't you?
Vocus--You really don't have to be technically sophistated to understand. For example with a beam axle, if your drivers side rear tire hits a bump, your passenger side tire is affected. One side goes up, causing the other side to push down, kinda like a teeter totter. With IRS, each side of the car is independent of the other side, keeping both tires planted better no matter the road surface. Another benifit of an IRS geometry is that it allows for benificial changes in camber when cornering and in the Protege's case, toe also (passive rear wheel steering). Again, not MY opinion, just physics.
I have first hand experience with non IRS rear suspensions. I used to own a Mustang 5.0L which had a solid rear axle. If the road was smooth, you couldn't really tell the difference but when there were bumps and I mean ANY bumps, the rear end got squirely like blueguy describes. If you weren't careful, this could lead to your car swapping ends....scary stuff.
they don't need to. it doesn't make a difference. what people fail to realize is that since the dawn of time, VW's have been on three wheels when driven hard. there are people that SPECIALIZE in, and will ONLY race VW's, BECAUSE of that. makes things fun.
and please, my Civic and Integra with its fabulous suspension took exit ramps great, until a little bump upset the car.
give me 3 wheels and a SOLID car anyday.
seriously, it can't be that bad. there are more suspension upgrades available for Hondas than their are VW's. simply because VW's don't need anything other than stiffer springs (and blue's sway bar in his case). why do you think Hondas need all of the extra help?
i know that newer technology is generally better. but i think most people think, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
all i am saying on that topic. if you guys hate the jettas suspension so much - don't buy one!
Actually, there are a bunch of companies that don't use IRS on all of their cars and it's NOT because the solid axle design is better. It is because it's cheaper.
"it doesn't make a difference."
Well, I hate to break to you, but you are flat out wrong. There is nothing else to say about that. You can keep on thinking there is no difference until hell freezes over. I am an idiot for trying to tell you otherwise because it is PAINFULLY obvious that you don't know much about the workings of an automobile.
"if you guys hate the jettas suspension so much - don't buy one!"
I don't hate the suspension. I just realize that it isn't the best design that could have been used.
http://www.vwvortex.com
There are pics of what the car is suppose to look like, and all. But, like I said, these are mostly speculations for now.
Eeew! Myself, I'd prefer the stiffer suspension with stock height and 15 inch wheels (more tire=nicer ride)
So?
As long as they are winning, who cares?
More tire = flabbier cornering. I upgraded to 17" OZ wheels a few months ago, and I can't believe how much better the car handles now.
I have heard from many people that upgrading to Bilstein Sport shocks and H&R sport springs delivers a ride almost as comfortable as stock with vastly improved handling.
The stock handling is merely ok. I think it would be a lot better if the shock rebound were a bit more controlled. It's a little too boaty floaty.
IRS cars can have swaybars too. This isn't about keeping the wheels from moving independently of one another...it's about keeping the car's chassis on a flatter plane.
And anonymous, if you prefer the stock height, soft suspension and 15 inch wheels, then you're not the demographic who gives a hoot about performance. You want an appliance. That's cool.
I am definitely going to get the rear sway bar at some point, and now thinking about the H&R/Bilstein Sport shocks/springs too...
Note, I said interior "CARGO" room....for the Jetta...it's the trunk.
When I got my 92 Civic hatch, it had 175/70R13 tires. I upgraded to 185/60HR14. That was the best!!! Then, I upgraded THAT to 195/55HR14 Bridgestone HIGH PERFORMANCE tires. It just doesn't get any better.
But then I grew up a little, and decided I wanted something that rides better than something with maybe 2 to 2.5 inches of tire between my car and the road. It has nothing to do with the type of car or type of tires. I have run the gamut of them all, from a 76 Monaco with Goodyear Polysteel 215/75R15's to what I wrote above.
There is a decreasing return on what you get out of what you give up. Hey, look at all the Corvettes running with 235/70R15 tires or the 225/60R15 Gatorbacks on Mustangs.
Here is a perfect example. If these were maybe upgraded to better tires, there would be no squealing, better handling, and a better ride than if 16 or (gasp!) 17 inch tires.
You take a 15" performance tire and a 17" performance tire, and I guarantee you the 17" one will handle better.
Unless you're using the word "handle" to describe something other than hard driving and cornering...?