Volkswagen Jetta 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • justinjustin Member Posts: 1,918
    when i put my car in gear (being an automatic), my foot can't be anywhere but on the brake pedal. there is a shift lock mechanism. and as i said, the car is not at 3k rpms when i do that - it is not possible to do.

    the car is falling apart. but i think you are right - VW will just say everything is fine. but i have to, in good faith, take it in one last time to see if they can fix it, then i won't feel guilty about getting rid of it. :)
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    The bottom line is if you don't want the car anymore, don't abuse it and mess it up for someone else who might want it as a used car.

    Revving a cold engine, especially one with a turbo, anywhere near 3000rpm without giving it adequate time to warm up is definitely abusing it. Anthony already said that above. He is also right about letting the car sit and 'warm' a little, until the rpms drop from 1200 or so (idling) to the regular 800. My car acted weird once when I took off too quickly, and I never did it again.

    Also, just because your engine light doesn't come on doesn't mean there aren't DTCs in the computer they will see when they hook it up to the computer. (Mine had 2 DTCs in there, and I never saw an engine light.) BTW, DTCs are (something) trouble codes, codes 'spit' out by the computer when something goes wrong inside it.
  • justinjustin Member Posts: 1,918
    you and I have been down this road before. we have different definitions of abuse. you are acting like 3k rpms is something that a car can't handle. contrary to popular belief, all oil DOES NOT leave the engine when it is turned off. some oil drains to the bottom of the engine, but not all. i bring this up again: if there was not any lubrication at start up, internal combustion engines by design wouldn't even be around - they would not be profitable. there is oil there when the car is started. outside of the car not having oil, why is revving a car not even half way to the redline bad, at any time? it isn't, silly! :) and this coming from someone who runs over curbs and talks about suspension mods and chips. and you think I abuse my car? sheesh!

    i will let you know what they say tomorrow.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    (Mr Justin) How many scored pistons have you held in your hands? Better yet, how many engines have you taken apart and SEEN the results of the abuse you describe? (very few... I suspect)

    Do not kid yourself. A freshly-started engine has many different metal parts that are expanding at different rates. This causes 'clearance problems' for several minutes until everything has reached a stable size. Are you aware that it has been PROVEN that most wear occurs during warmup of an internal-combustion-engine due to this?

    Do you engine a favor and DO NOT rev it before fully warmed up. And for that matter (at any temp) do not rev it without a load on it either. (The pistons are trying to "fly off" the ends of the conn rods and can hit the ridge.) I assume you DO know what a "ridge reamer" is and how the ridge gets there in the first place.

    VOCUS is correct about the turbocharger adding yet another highly-stressed part to the equation. Throwing massive amounts of HOT exhaust at a cold turbocharger is asking for trouble.... not to mention the added boost that it is pumping into the cold engine.
  • 20jetta0220jetta02 Member Posts: 6
    So does anyone know why the engine idles at a higher rev on some startups? Is it to circulate the oil more quickly? I've noticed it, but I haven't been able to determine when the engine decides to do this. It happens only sometimes when I start my car, and I haven't been able to correlate it to temperature, how long the car has sat, incline, fuel level, oil level, etc...
  • adg44adg44 Member Posts: 385
    You aren't supposed to drive hard while cold because it is bad for the engine, and it's because the oil isn't up to operating temperature, and not at full viscosity. Once your oil is hot, then it lubricates perfectly.

    Revving your engine while not under load is awful for it, especially when cold, but still when warm. Just revving your engine wears your piston rings faster (and other as bpeebles explained). Do what you want if you think you know what is best for your engine, but be forewarned.

    However, the turbo doesn't actually boost unless under load.

    I had DTCs about my MAF sensor on my GTI and no CE light.

    So here is what you are doing, Justin. You start your car, you immediately for some reason unknown to us (maybe you like the sound of the engine while cold, or it's your way of punishing the car because you don't like it, or maybe it makes you feel like a man - I don't know), rev your engine to 3000 RPM. Then you put your foot on the brake, the engine is sputtering because you just gave it a lot of air and gas while it's completely cold, then you put it in gear under load and the computer is trying to figure out what to do, to get back to normal idle, and you give it more gas, so it stalls and the CEL comes on. It would be great if you go to the dealer and the DTC reads "User abused me and didn't allow me to warm up, and my piston rings are hurting!". Also, you are not supposed to start the car while your foot is on the gas pedal, this is not good.

    I suggest you listen to our suggestions and opinions considering the fact that we are right and you are wrong. ;)

    Although it seems you aren't happy with this car and you are abusing it and looking for an excuse to get rid of it. Hey, that's fine, some people just don't like some cars. So be happy, get rid of the car, and go get something else.

    - Anthony :)
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    Never ran over a curb. Did talk about modding suspension and chipping, this is not abusing the car though. The turbo can handle it, otherwise manufacturers wouldn't be able to sell chips. Also, I RUBBED a curb (by accident, mind you), I didn't run over it. When I did, a jagged piece slashed my tire on the side. :(

    Revving the car when cold is not good for it, especially a car with a turbo. I used to rev the crap out of a used Bonneville my mother had when I started driving, when the engine was cold. You know what happend to it? By 150K when I sold the car for her, it sounded like the Baltimore Colts band under the hood, with all the tapping...

    If you were to keep the car until 70-100K miles, you would see the affects of doing what you are doing. And you would feel them in your wallet too, in the form of a rebuilt head or new turbo.
  • deuskiddeuskid Member Posts: 20
    Hitting and/or running over curbs is bad? Boy, am I messed up. have 3 son's 21, 19, 17 and only now learn curbbing is a frowned-upon practice. My kids tell me curbbing is a good thing - efficiently driving by taking a corner in the least amount of distance traveled. They tell me they are saving fuel and doing their patriotic duty [21 yr old is in the navy so he IS doing his part now]. Geesh, next thing you guys are going to tell me that getting into a car and revving a cold engine is bad for it [having rebuilt several engines I know for a fact that absuing engines is a great educational and [potentially] recreational experience]. 8-).
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    No comment.. :)

    God bless your son in the armed forces, and all our troops out there.
  • justinjustin Member Posts: 1,918
    everyone ganging up on me!! ;)

    seriously, you realize that when you start a car, it revs at 12-1300 rpms. the reason i tap the gas, it to get it to stop. haven't you noticed that? if you tap the gas, it makes the car stop idling so high. and who said i start the car with my foot on the gas? who does that? i think you are reading much more into the situation than is really there. i don't REV the engine, i tap the gas, and it goes to 3k. not for minutes at time. the whole point is i like to start the car and GO. who has time to sit there and rev? the reason the car idles high is emissions related. cars are built to warm up FASTER now because cold engine emissions are awful. think about it - would VW design a car that immediately revs itself higher than normal on cold start if it couldn't handle it? based on the positions stated here, if anything, i am HELPING the car by stopping it from revving so high at cold start. so THERE!

    BTW, i have four new J coils now, and a new Engine Control Module. i asked them why the car was misfiring, they said the ECM was the likely cause. there were a slew of random misfire codes. they also said that there is NOTHING i could do the damage the engine outside of not putting oil in it. as i suspected, car companies take into account the fact that this world is full of idiots. if cars really were damaged by revving the engine, the companies couldn't offer warranties.

    anyway, they tell me the car should be perfect now. have to all of my keys in to get reprogramed though.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    The car's rpms drop from 1200rpm to the normal 800rpm within a minute, maybe 90 seconds. Just like doing the 'cool down', it doesn't take that much time to do. And it will insure the engine will last longer and be a better performer overall.

    What did they say was wrong with your ECU?
  • justinjustin Member Posts: 1,918
    didn't ask what was wrong with the ECM - i guess the darn thing just had broken somehow.
  • adg44adg44 Member Posts: 385
    If you have multiple misfires and replacing the coils doesn't work, VW says to replace the ECM.

    It'll take 3 seconds to reprogram the keys at the dealer.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
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  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    That's what my last tank average was in my 02 1.8T Tiptronic. I was really surprised when calculating this (by hand - I don't have a trip computer in my car). Even using the 1.8T's power, I still got this much, the best mileage to date since I got the car (it's got 33,800 miles now).

    If I can get this kind of mileage from a 180hp 1.8T that I can chip and make 'scream', why get a TDI? :)
  • chmeeeechmeeee Member Posts: 327
    Because you could get a TDI, chip it and make it shout, and see 51.4 mpg, which I have seen before. :-D
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    Not to sound competitive, but take a TDI and a 1.8T. Spend the same amount on both cars chipping them, and see who wins. I would love to get 51.4mpg out of a tank of gas, but with my driving style it's kinda optimistic. Edmunds drives hard, and they ended up averaging 36.5mpg in a TDI Beetle over 35K miles, and 32 in their automatic TDI Jetta.

    I like the idea of a diesel, because they are cheaper, simpler, get great economy, and last forever. But also, I drove an auto TDI before I bought my 1.8T, and it wasn't half as fast. I guess I am not as ready to 'slow down' as I thought...

    I know TDIs have monster torque, but is that gonna get me to 60 as fast as the 1.8T will? That's basically what I am concerned about, having power to merge and accelerate with authority, as well as getting good economy.

    You also have to admit, 27+ is great for the 1.8T, considering the power it has on tap (and believe me, I use the power too!)...
  • chmeeeechmeeee Member Posts: 327
    Not saying that that isnt good economy for the 1.8T, I just like to show the other side of the coin. ;-) I also drive pretty hard when accelerating onto the freeway and such, I am not a slow driver. I also know that a TDI has no chance against the 1.8T, but its fun to pretend...
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    Oh I wasn't knocking the TDI or anything, I didn't want you to think that. I was saying, I know there are chips, tuning boxes, etc. available for the TDI, but will they make it close to as fast as the 1.8T? From hearing about the stuff available, the answer I am coming up with is 'no'. Am I right in that assumption?
  • chmeeeechmeeee Member Posts: 327
    You are right. You could probably make a TDI as fast as a 1.8T, but it would take some heavy mods. The chip will give you about 110-115 hp and 195-200 tq.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    If I could mod a TDI to go almost as fast as a 1.8T, I would be happy. I would like to do it so the price of the TDI+mods = the 1.8T price, or less. I don't think it's possible though. What do you think?

    See, I have this problem...I love speed. I also love the idea of 50mpg though. Which will I take, given the choice? Well, I chose the T over the TDI and 2.0, knowing that I commute 80 miles daily, so that should make it clear.. :)
  • chmeeeechmeeee Member Posts: 327
    No way that will happen, since they are pretty close to the same price already. I for one wouldnt do it even if I could afford to, because that much in the way of mods has to cost you some engine longevity.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    They will also cost you your warranty.... :)
  • dag57dag57 Member Posts: 4
    first of all, I know the cloth seats don't have the adjustable lumbar support like the leather ones, but according to the VW Jetta 03 sales brochure the velour seating has adjustable lumbar support as well...Is this the same type as the leather seating, Or do leather seats have additional adjustments besides???? Well aware of the cloth vs leather argument(but still see far more 1.8T on road with velour seating over leather at least where I live) I would also assume the heated velour seat option is just the same as leather...One last question, when does VW start production run of the new Jetta 04(is it different from the Amer car market)...I don't plan on ordering one till about early May 03, would assume that would probably be too late to try for either an 03 model artic silver or platinum gray 1.8T Tiptronic with black interior.. VW assembly plant in Mexico would probably be tooling up for 04 model launch with maybe different exterior/interior color schemes...Does anyone know if the current paint schemes and colors will change for Jetta 04 model sedans...
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    If i'm not mistaken the next gen Jetta comes out for MY 2005, so by getting the 04 you'd be buying the last year of a models that's well known for having numerous problems.
  • chmeeeechmeeee Member Posts: 327
    It all depends on what you want. If you were to wait for the next gen, you would be getting the first in a run of a brand new model, which is bound to have unexpected problems in any company. All of the known numberous problems (pretty much coils and regulators) have been fixed by now.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    you would think a model in its last year would have the bugs worked. even if (a big if) the Jetta has its current crop of problems worked out, history suggests that new problems will crop up. what a shame, because the jetta is one fine automobile for people who don't need a lot of back seat room.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    All of the known numberous problems (pretty much coils and regulators) have been fixed by now.

    VW HASN'T fixed the bugs on a car introbuced in 99. After 4 model years! 2002s, 4 years after the Jetta came out and a good 6 years after the first 1.8T engine, have coil problems. Obviously, VW doesn't fix known problems, so what would make anybody believe a 2003 will be better than a 2002 or a 2005 Jetta?

    VW is not a customer service oriented company. No matter what year you buy, you're in all probability gonna get shafted by them eventually.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    VW is not the most customer oriented, and you can perceive that from the interviews with their chairpersons. In the New York Times article about the coils, a VW rep said they didn't see it as a safety type recall. Excuse me? My car can lose power at any time, without any warning but an engine light, and it's not a safety issue?!? Okay, whatever...

    The coil problem started from the supplier, not VW. Not to give them any credit, but it wasn't VW's fault. They also changed suppliers as soon as they found out there was a problem. But the detriment against them, as it always has been, is the way they handled problems. Let's look back at how they handled the window regulator problem. I know people with 1993 (MK3) Jettas with reg problems, yet it took VW until 2002 to admit to the problem and start reimbursing people who have paid for 2, 3, even 5 repairs to the same or different windows. That right there is crap.

    Also, had VW came out at first and said, 'we have a supplier problem with the coils, we will proactively replace all the coils that are thought to be bad for free', then there would be far more happy customers. Personally, I really like the car alot and would not think 2 times about buying another one, perhaps if another manufacurer sold it. As it stands now, with VW's poor attitude toward customers, I think this Jetta just might be my last VW.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    Did anyone know about the pinch protection on the windows and sunroof? I was just wondering, because no one told me about it. I found out the hard way when I almost closed the rear window on my best friend's daughter's hand on Friday night. I am glad it was designed in, otherwise she might have been hurt alot more than just a little mark on her hand where the window 'squeezed' before it reversed its direction.

    See, things like this is what makes the Jetta stand out. Too bad VW can't get their customer support together...
  • chmeeeechmeeee Member Posts: 327
    Yeah, I knew about that. My friends like to play with that when we are on long car rides. My friend Dan found out the hard way that if you close it on your hand twice in a row, it doesn't stop the second time. I think its the car's way of telling you that you are an idiot. ;-)
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    He actually put his hand in there?!? When you open the window and it goes back down, when it comes back up I don't think the pinch protection works. If he does it on purpose, he should be pinched. :)

    I personally stuck a pack of gum in the driver window to see how this thing worked, as I didn't even know the car had it before that night.

    I am just glad the car does have it. Otherwise, I might have had one badly hurt little kid on Friday night.
  • toneetouchtoneetouch Member Posts: 60
    i've read so much about the issues that this generation of jettas have encountered, the oil consumption, failing windows, coils, etc. it seems like these issues have been going on for so long, and that vw has been aware of them, that it's hard for me to imagine that vw has not fixed all of these bugs by now. i am assuming that a newly manufactured jetta (wagon)would be free of these well documented issues (who knows if others might crop up). am i being overly optimistic? i recently discovered that i am having my first child, and it seems that the jetta wagon would really fit my needs for the next several years. still, i would hate to have a car that would be diverting attention, energy, and $$$ away from my brand new baby.

    also, i know jetta's have recently held their value pretty well. are those days gone? my first car was a protege and, although it was a great car, i feel i got pretty burned when it came time to trade it in. i would hate to experience the same thing with the jetta. maybe i should look into leasing? hmmmmnnn....
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    You might require more room in the back than the Jetta provides for a child seat. If you sit with the driver's seat back more than halfway, it's gonna be cramped in the back seat for the baby seat. You might check out a Passat.

    I know what you mean about resale, I was burned on 2 Proteges myself. The Jetta is alot better, from what I have read. But, all cars' resale values are down now because of the economy, so keep that in mind.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    Has anyone looked at their 40K maintenance schedule (a 'major' one)? I was checking it out, as I am at 35K now and might do the stuff early. (I won't really have time for car maintenance late this year, due to some activities I am taking part in).

    Anyway, I found that the 40K is mostly 'check, check, check', and they only change the oil, air and pollen filters and the spark plugs. And I am paying ~$400 for THIS?!? Don't think so. I can do the checking myself, and just get them to do the tune-up and oil change for me. Then I can take the saved cash and buy something nice for the car... :)
  • toneetouchtoneetouch Member Posts: 60
    thanks for the advice on the babyseat. this is all new to me, so i never considered the possibility of the car seat not fitting (i just thought of how ez it would be to throw groceries and a stroller in the wagon). have you had an experience setting up a carseat in a jetta? maybe i should borrow one and take it with me to the dealership... can't say i'd be willing to purchase a passat, tho. nice, but it sure has a lot of chrome.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    My best friend has 2 toddlers (3 and 4) who ride in my car regularly. I can tell you from experience that you have to move up the passenger seat halfway at least to give a toddler in a child seat adequate room. Also, it might be a problem fitting the infant seat into the Jetta's back seat, due to the carry handle on it. I would definitely borrow a baby seat, as well as an infant carrier, and take it with you to the dealership. You cay try all you want, but I know it's not gonna fit.. :)

    The Passat will give you a good amount more room for the baby seat, I have had 2 of those as loaners so I know.

    Amazingly, I found the level of difficulty similar to the Jetta when installing 2 baby seats in the back of a New Beetle loaner I had. The Passat was easier, but a rental Impala was the easiest. :) Of course, it would make 1.5 of the Jetta...
  • justinjustin Member Posts: 1,918
    i thought you were getting a Jetta Wagon TDi....changed your mind? not that i blame you...

    you know that is crazy, if i had the money, i would pay $50k for the A4 Cabrio. even though i know it won't be as reliable as it should be, it is the most beautiful convertible on the road, period. LUV IT! that is how VW can have poor service and questionable quality, by making cars that are just better than the rest when sitting on the new car lots and on the test drives :)
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    Don't wanna get a TDI, not ready to give up the power of the 1.8T yet... thought the gas mileage would be a good idea, but if I get something else I want a bigger car, not the same one. I did that before, and ended up trading the car in anyway.
  • chmeeeechmeeee Member Posts: 327
    Wait for the Passat TDI then, more space, more niceness, more power (136 hp, 240ish ft-lbs). Good times will ensue. :-)
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    It's not like I am getting a car anytime soon, so I definitely will check out the Passat TDI.
  • toneetouchtoneetouch Member Posts: 60
    thanks vocus,
    funny, i always thought ALL station wagons were family cars. i'll have to look into the jetta wagon a little more closely.
  • adg44adg44 Member Posts: 385
    I had forgotten that my car had this... so I told my friend to stick his finger on the window while I roll it up. :P

    He didn't believe me, so we tried with a pencil - and sure enough it worked!

    They can design pinch protection into the window regulators, but they can't design a window regulator that won't break. Screwy.

    - Anthony
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    That is too funny! :)

    Hey, I have a question for you. How do you know the regs are about to break on you? My driver window has sounded like it's grinding for a couple days, but it might be something on the window itself rubbing the rubber on the door as it goes down. Is this a telltale sign, or what?

    BTW, I have 34.5K miles, and still on my original regs.
  • shawnmaloneshawnmalone Member Posts: 71
    Vocus, I didn't get any warning before my regulators broke. Windows worked perfectly up to the minute that they didn't work at all.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    One of the loaner cars I had over the summer had a regulator problem, I think. The window was down about a half-inch and wouldn't go back up. It just powered itself down and stopped, and that was it. It didn't fall though. It was 98 degrees that day too. I put a trash bag over the window to drive from work to the dealer (about 50 miles).
  • justinjustin Member Posts: 1,918
    why don't you just go get them replaced? if you ever have an hour or so, just have them do it. i never had any problems with mine either, on both Jettas, but i had them replaced just in case a couple of months ago. gave me a small amount of "peace of mind". in this car, i will take it where i can get it...haha.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I am taking my car in on Thursday for scheduled maintenance as well as an alignment (darn potholes!), and I asked if they would proactively replace them. They said no, they would not, just like the coils. I emailed VW this morning and am awaiting a response. We will see what they say.
  • chmeeeechmeeee Member Posts: 327
    Don't tell them you want them proactively replaced, just tell them you hear a funny grinding noise when lowering your windows. Most dealers will replace them at the first complaint of trouble now. My dealer actually made up a complaint to fix the passenger side one, since there was nothing wrong with it.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    Well, that's the thing. I told the dealer that I heard the grinding noise, but they said it would have to fall before they fix it. I am taking the car on Thursday, and they should replace them then if I complain about it. We will see though.

    I was gonna do a spark plug replacement while I was there, since I am at 35K and won't really have time to take the car back at 40K. They told me it would cost me $170 or so for the work though!
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