Volkswagen Jetta 2005 and earlier

mseals

The C230 is very MB like in the interior I thought. Things are very plane and easy to read, everything is right there and you still feel like you are missing something. OH well, I love MB's, I think that they are the premiere car right now. They are solid, but the new SL looks so good that I would sell my house to get one if I could. They are completely solid, and they always have been for safety reasons. They are one of the few cars that could probably win in a head on with an SUV.

For me though, I still want to row my own gears and that leaves me with the M3 and M5, I like smaller cars so my nod goes more towards the M3. I love it that it only comes in a Coupe now and not the sedan.

Hey guys, this survey called me up last night and asked me what type of car I have, the options were: 4 door sedan, 2 door sedan, 4 door hatchback or 2 door hatchback. I told him that I have a 2 door coupe and he said, you mean a 2 door sedan. I just said, yeah, what ever. How stupid can you be, there is no such thing as a 2 door sedan.

target3

Actually, I think the safety ratings (disclaimer: based on Edmunds data)indicate that the Jetta is better than MB, and probabley every other car out there. The crash test results are excellent for both driver and passenger, and every other category is good. The best part is bumper bash, where VW is good and MB is poor. I suppose that means accidently bumping another vehicle while parallel-parking could cost $1000 to repair.

mseals

Crash test are subjective. I won't go into depth but there are basically two organization who do crash tests and they each do them almost totally differently. I read this in Consumers Reports magazine that did the overvivew of the 2002 models. It was actaully a really good article, you should read it if you get a chance. It really showed what the test scores mean and how they got them.

Anyway, I still believe that crash test scores no matter which one they come from are compared to cars in the same class only. Does MB make a car that is in the compact class. I know the C230 would probably fit into that class since it is small, but I can't think of any other car that would. Maybe the C-class but that is actaully a little bit bigger, I would put that in the same class as the 3-Series BMW's and the A4 and Passat. But who knows, basically the article was saying that there is still single defining test that everyone looks.

justin

you are right, but remember to keep in mind that, just because Consumer Reports says so, does not actually mean it is true. These are the same people that often intentionally try to roll over SUV's, and then go to the media and say that the SUV's are dangerous. Well, duh, of course an SUV will roll if you make it do so. So will a car....

Anyway, CR has good points, but they are hardly "objective" in most cases.....

But yes, the Jetta for it's size, is one of the safest cars out there. It adds much value to the car. 8 airbags and ABS and starting at $16k?? Can't beat that!

blueguydotcom

SUVs are infinitely more PRONE to rolling over than cars. It's simple physics...put a tall, top heavy vehicle on big wheels and in sharp maneuvers the vehicle will teeter. Ever really pushed an SUV? Nissan's Xterra and Toyota's 4Runner are beyond terrifying when cornerning fast.

You have to be going insanely fast to topple a normal sedan. With an SUV, a sharp turn at freeway speeds will do it.

tulanekid24

I am interested in buying a Jetta. I am lookin for a 2002 1.8T GLS, 5-speed. I can't seem to find one. My dealer did a search for a possible dealer trade and There is not one in the Entire southeast region.

The salesman told me that 2003 will be out in August and that they will not be getting anymore of the 2002 model. Is that true?? He then showed me an order form for getting a 2003 ordered. Should I order a 2003? Does anyone know the prices for the 2003 models?

Do dealers only sell special orders at MSRP? The sales guy said they didnt budge much with the numbers on special orders?

Still wanting a Jetta and cannot find it yet...

blueguydotcom

If you're willing to wait for a 2003, then do so (don't pre-order and pay MSRP, which is 2k too much for a Jetta). It sounds to me like the dealer is flat out lying to you. Find another dealer to help you. 1.8T five speeds shouldn't be that rare in May.

dl7265

With a pending long move to the country we are considering a TDI, and the Jetta/Golf is the only one avilable far as i know. Any advise on one ?

thanks
DL

bpi

So applying the same logic, of course you'll get killed in a Geo Metro if it hits a fullsize SUV. Same outcome in a Jetta?

What percentage of SUV drivers drive more carefully because they realize they're driving an SUV? It's even more plausible to think that many drive more carelessly because they think they're in a "safe" vehicle.

moparbad

TDI Jetta is offered in Sedan and Wagon, Golf TDI is offered in 2 and 4 door, and there is the Beetle too. www.tdiclub.com has more information about TDI than any other place I know. Go to TDI club and read FAQ and then ask any questions you may have. The TDI is a great car. Lots (150lb/ft) of torque and mileage 40 to over 50 depending on transmission and driving habits. The Jetta Wagon is probably the most practical TDI. What do you specifically want to know?

blueguydotcom

If you drive all cars the same fashion, then the SUV has a MUCH higher propensity for rolling. Simple as that. Driven the same way, an SUV will tip more often than a car. If one must modify his driving style to make up for the passenger vehicle's inherent safety flaws, then obviously, the vehicle's not very safe, now is it?

bpi

Sounds like your post should've been directed at Justin. What you said is exactly my position.

Take a look at the test: How far apart the cones were and how fast the vehicle was traveling when the driver made the manuever? Then decide if the test was "unrealistic". Why should we cheer when every (?) VW comes with eight airbags? What's the probability of one of those eight saving my life?

dl7265

Thanks for the link I will check it out. It would be used for a good commuter car to town to work.I just wondered about maint/warranty and I finally found on VW the 5 speed is still over 12seconds 0-60, but it would be mostly highway travel so thats ok.

DL

petepie1

Tulane, call around some other VW dealers yourself and ask if they have the car you're looking for. I went through the same thing buying a 2000 Jetta--the dealer we went to said there were none in the DC area in the color combination I wanted, but he found one in PA and would drive it down (at which point it would have approx. 200 miles). I said I'd think about it and left the dealership. I called around to a couple of other dealers in the DC/Baltimore area and found TWO identical Jettas at two other dealers. Ended up buying one of them from a Baltimore dealer only 20 miles from the first guy who said he'd looked "all over the DC/Baltimore area". Bottom line is that I think dealers have agreements with only certain other dealers to move cars around, so when they are telling you they can't find it, it may mean they can't get it in their system of dealerships. Good luck.

vocus

I have one case that downright scared the hell out of me.

I live on a small one-way street that exits to a 2-way street at the top, the only way out of this little area really. I was at home the other day, just got home from work, and ready to go out the door. I had to take care of some things, then went out the door. When I was in the house, I heard this huge BANG outside. You learn to ignore these things when you live in the city though.

So I go out my front door, and all these people and a fire truck are at the corner of my street (about 100 feet away from my house). I go up, and I see this Dodge Shadow laying on its side in the middle of the street, about 1/2 block up! Turns out, he was going like 25mph and bounced off a parked SUV (who had his wheels turned all the way left, parked), flipped up in the air, and over on its hood. The guy was going like 25mph, and that's all! One of my neighbors saw it happen. I was really shocked that a car would flip that easily. So it doesn't take an SUV to flip I guess.

Also, I had a RAV4 rental a couple weeks ago (it was a 2002), and it felt very stable when taking corners. I do slow down markedly from the speed I corner in the Jetta though, that's common sense. As a whole, I wouldn't drive an SUV though. I am not going to buy a vehicle that has a warning label on it about flipping. I have been in too many "close calls" on the highway (where I had to swerve quickly to either side) to drive an SUV.

vocus

I thought they had fixed that damn rattle in the dash of my car. Well they did NOT! I took the car back last Wednesday and told them I was tired of it (this was time #4!). I also called VWoA and opened up a case, because I was not satisfied with my repair. They told me to call back when my car was at the dealer again (which I did).

So I don't hear from the dealer for 5 days. I call them on Monday afternoon to see what's up. VWoA flew a rep in from Michigan to drive my car with this special instrument to detect interior noise. They found the problem (a little loose screw in the side window defroster vent on the dashtop!), and fixed it. They said they fixed anything that registered on the meter the guy used when driving the car (didn't even know there were more noises!). Went to get the car last night, but they said it wasn't ready. The rep from MI had to go over the car again, then the shop foreman, then the service manager. After all 3 of them go over the car and drive it individually to check it, they will fill it with fuel, wash/polish the exterior, and clean the interior, then I can pick it up. (That's what they told me anyway.)

I was really surprised at the level of customer service I received concerning this matter. VW is definitely the best carmaker I ever had to deal with. They keep this up, and I will never drive anything but VW. I pick the car up today, I hope. I want my 1.8T back! All this time, they gave me a V6 Passat loaner as well (I still want my car back).

target3

Let's put it this way, many vehicles out there only have 2 or 4 airbags. Maybe it wouldn't save your life. Maybe it would prevent 12 trips to the hospital for various treatments. I do not know. What I do know is that the Jetta has a ton of safety features and is not likely to be beat in safety features by many other vehicles.

Personally, I just think it is hilarious that one can pay $40k or more for a MB or BMW that rates a poor in bumper bash. But I suppose those buying these vehicles wouldn't really care about a $1500, 5mph fender-bender.

mseals

hey guys, I have had two SUV's in my live, a 98 Cherokee Sport and a 99 Grand Cherokee. both seemed pretty stable, but the Cherokee sport isn't that high of an SUV and the Grand Cherokee is rather wide for a SUV so it was very stable at speed. It even handled somewhat like a car, albeit not a sports car. It did brake extremely well also, since the breaks are huge. I got rid of the Cherokee sport and bought my Civic Si, talk about a change. I went from tons of torque to almost no torque, but it did help me realize that torque doesn't equate to speed. The Civic Si is way faster 0-60 and everywhere else. It might have been different if Jeep had put different gear ratios in the trans but they don't even make that truck anymore.
About SUV's flipping, yes they will flip easier than a car, but don't be fooled into thinking that it is hard to make a car flip. Unless you have a sports car with a suspension that can make the car relatively neutral in corners you car can flip. You take a Buick and try to subject it to slalom times that you might get in a sportier car and guess what, you flip. That is they some cars are faster and some are slower in the slalom. The drivers know they are pushing the car to the edge. I have seen a Ford Capri (the little two seater convertible) flip on the freeway once. There were two girls dancing in the car doing about 80 right next to me. The started rocking back and forth and so did the car. Well, I sped up because I knew something was going to happen. Sure enough, I saw in my rear view mirror, the car started swaying and then cut a sharp left to the divider and flipped twice and landing back on its wheels. It was crazy since the girls were fine and there really wasn't that much visible damage to the car. I am there the underpinnings were shot and the car was pretty much headed for the body shop, but as for the body panels, they seemed to be relatively fine except for the corners that it flipped on.

rileyyh

If you look at the website for the National Instistitute for Highway Safety, then you see the tests and pictures of the crash test for all the cars. The Jetta is definitely good, but at 40mph, the part where your left foot would be resting came into the cabin a couple of inches (which they concluded could lead to injury like breaking of the shin). Remember that this was 40mph into a stationary object. Think of a real life situation where you hit an oncoming car. One has to realize that airbags are definitely good, but the structure of the car is more important. The Hyundai Sonata (midsize car) had up to like 10 inches of the dash come into the cabin while if you look at ANY Subaru, only about 1 or 2 inches comes into the cabin area, making all Subarus their choice for safety in their respective categories. You should check the website out, they compare all cars they test according to class. Also, according to the Consumer Reports article, the crash test by this organization is the more strict, realistic one to follow, not those simple 4 or 5 stars that Fords seem to get all the time.

riley

mseals

You read the article too, what did you think? I thought it was a good and relatively unbiased article. It showed the difference between the two testing bodies and their methods for testing.

Also, they rate cars of like size and measure them on somewhat of a bell curve. They have to do this because there need a benchmark for safety in a certain class. So they take the best crash results in a class and give the car the highest rating. It isn't based on a certain level of safety. Meaning, if all cars were bad, then the least bad car would get the top rating. It is funny to think about it that way, but that is how 20-40 years ago, cars were still getting top ratings but they were have fallen off the charts compared to cars of today.

vocus

I think they should make automakers adhere to the IIHS tests, because more accidents happen offset that flat head into something. I had an accident 3 years ago, and it was offset. My co-worker has had 2 major accidents since New Year's Eve, and both were offset crashes.

That website to check out the IIHS scores is:

http://www.iihs.org

justin

All i was saying is that, any car can roll over. the reason CR is not reputable, to me, is that WHO DOESN'T KNOW THAT SUV'S ARE TOP HEAVY AND CAN FLIP OVER EASILY? I mean, there are warnings in the manual and on the visors of these vehicles. And then CR decides to pick ONE SUV and crucify it because they MADE it flip over. Do you see the crooked business sense they have? It is possible that another SUV maker wanted CR to trash the Isuzu (which at the time had a decent market share) and say it flips easily. It is plain as day.

Besides, if anyone is driving their SUV to make it flip over like CR did, don't they deserve their SUV to flip over? I should think so....;)

But yes, cars can flip over too. Just not as likely. But every accident has millions of different factors and variables...

mseals

All I was saying is that CR really doesn't do their own ratings on crash testing. As for the SUV flipping, they conducted their own tests after the other two testing bodies had tested the SUV and came up with different results. That is not common for that to happend sense they test vehicles totally different. Anyway, I agree, I did see a special on TV where they tipped the Suv pretty easily. And yes, they way they were driving it, anyone could have tipped it and I would say that most SUV's would tip in that situation as well. But, CR only puts it opinions on their rating of most recommended vehicle. The rest of the stuff, reliability ratings, customer satisfaction and all that other stuff, is from surveys they get back from people.

Of course we know that people are more likely to fill out those reports if their car is doing crappy as a means of venting rather than if their car is flawless and runs normally.

That is all I am saying.

vocus

I do not agree that they made their SUVs flip over. Ever been on the highway and have something fall off a truck in front of you? I have, a piece of wallboard fell off a truck right on 495 when I was on my way to work a couple weeks ago. If I had not swerved my car sharply to the right (at 65mph), it would have gone through my windshield and possibly killed me. Had I been driving an SUV and "sliced" the wheel quickly as I did in my Jetta, there is a very good chance I could have flipped it over.

CR tests emergency handling of the tested vehicles, to show how the vehicle would perform in a real-life situation such as mine.

So think about that before bashing CR.

justin

everyone knows you can't drive, and you always seem to have some story....:) kidding.

i do not bash CR at every chance i get. i simply shed some light on the way they operate.

but, to go with what you said, if an SUV swerved like you did to avoid that killer drywall, it might flip. but not just one brand of SUV. all top heavy vehicles are more prone to rolling. and, had the road conditions been favorable, you could have flipped too.

vocus

From the post I made earlier, I still cannot believe that car flipped over around the corner from my house. I drive that street (well, I have to) EVERY single time I leave my house. But I saw the car lying on its hood with my own eyes, so I know it flipped. He only moved over to the right because another car was coming down the street (it's 2 way), and moved over a little too far. The driver is ok I guess, they took him out by ambulance from the car. The only broken thing on the car was the windshield, but I think it's an automatic total if the car flips. Not sure on that one though.

bpi

"..WHO DOESN'T KNOW THAT SUV'S ARE TOP HEAVY AND CAN FLIP OVER EASILY?"
You must be kidding.
Who doesn't know not wearing a seatbelt is not safe?
Who doesn't know talking on the cell phone while driving is not safe?
Who doesn't know putting on makeup while driving is not safe?
Who doesn't know driving drunk is not safe?

"And then CR decides to pick ONE SUV and crucify it because they MADE it flip over."
CR decided to put EVERY SUV (and if I'm not mistaken, every car as well) through the test and that particular SUV was the ONLY ONE that failed.

justin

i don't understand your post. but yes, all of those things are things that any breathing person understands.

i don't know why they only made the one SUV flip over. these were HUMANS driving the SUVS, so there is NO WAY that the tests were done in the exact same way, under the exact same conditions. not scientifically possible.

again, because one person can make a car flip over, doesn't mean it will. i can make my car flip over on the way home from work. it is irresponsible publishing on their part. but the majority of people don't think about that. i am just saying that people seem to put a lot of faith in what CR says. they aren't even a "car" mag.... but that is another topic. this is off the Jetta topic i guess.

vocus - i was in baltimore on sunday morning. just in time for tornados. fun!

vocus

Baltimore is a living, breathing tornado. Ugh.

vocus

Also, do you know how CR does their tests? Lemme tell ya then...

They take each vehicle they test (whether it be a car, truck, or house on wheels) and run it through an accident-advoidance test. They put out cones in the middle of the test track to resemble a dog or something that would run in front of you. They swerve out of the lane, into the next one, then back into the original lane. They keep doing it faster and faster until the vehicle loses its composure. I don't see how that's not understandable.

Also, the Mitsubishi Montero failed this test as well. The Trooper and Acura SLX are not the only ones.

blueguydotcom

>> do not bash CR at every chance i get. i simply shed some light on the way they operate. <<

The way they operate? they're a non-profit with zero ads and all of their money comes from subscriptions. It's not like Automobile or MT or Road and & Track of Car & Driver...THOSE mags are biased and have to be as they depend upon the advertisers to stay in business.

CR gains nothing from making a crappy Mitsubishi or Suzuki tip.

mseals

Justin,

CR is probably more credible than most mags, I have to agree with blueguydotcom. There is no alternative motive unless the writers are getting hidden kickbacks from automakers to say that the other guy is bad. But that can't be the case because they didn't just say that one SUV passed, they simply said that one is more prone to flip than the rest.

Let's think about this, if an auto company made an SUV with a high center of gravity and a top heavy weight bias, and then didn't do some suspension work to make sure the truck doesn't flip at the drop of a hat, or better yet, didn't use a design in order to save on some production costs, then that truck would be more prone to flip than the rest. Remember, they only compare apples to apples so it has to be compared to like vehicles.

I agree, it does seem like they singled out one truck, and I agree that it is impossible to make a test that is error free when you factor in humans, but come on. CR has no motive to make that truck look worse than the others. They don't really like SUV's that much anyway, those darn tree huggers!

chazalu

I thought this was the VW Jetta site, but there doesn't seem to be much Jetta discussion going on.

vocus

We do get off topic sometimes here.

What do you wanna know? Ask and we will try our best to help you.

Anakin

I heart my Jetta.

pat

Um, yeah... the SUV board is that way -->

And there are probably discussions in News & Views about Consumer Reports (there used to be, and that's the best place). I think that board is Pat
Sedans Host

rileyyh

You say CR 'made' the SUV flip. A Montero Sport was reported to flip going at 35mph. I don't know where you live but that's local speed and people who go off and on ramps go that speed. You don't see any other car flip. They did the same thing that they would do in a car and the Montero flips at 35mph while other cars do not. Simple. They didn't do anything extreme.

vocus

Well, my 2002 Jetta is still in the shop for its rattle. They found the problem, like I had posted before, but now they are ordering this special "rubber treatment" package from Germany that could take a week or so to come in. I got tired of gassing up the V6 Passat loaner (I commute ~100 miles a day), so I took it back and got a 2.0 Beetle. It's alot slower, but the 2.0 is surprisingly adequate in the Beetle, where it felt strained in the Jetta when I had one before.

Anyway, the rep from Michigan came to look at my car, and suggested I get this treatment thing. He will not let the car go until it had this treatment in place. I am happy they were so responsive to my needs at VW. It's definitely the best customer service I have had with ANY car I have owned. And I am shocked even more because the only problem was a little, hard to hear rattle in the dash (a loose screw in a dash defroster vent is what it turned out to be). They really went far and above what I expected to solve my problem and make sure I am happy.

I will probably get my car back next week sometime, they said. It's been in the shop a week already, and probably will end up being 2 weeks now. I am having severe 1.8T withdrawl though! I am really about to go and test drive a 1.8T at another dealer this weekend, because I miss that engine that much!

8u6hfd

CR also did it to the Izuzu Trooper.

CR differs from their double lane change test method compared to all the other magazines. CR does a low speed one, and does the sharpest turn possible. CR is the only publication which has made the Montero & Trooper flip, while others haven't.

Anakin

Be glad that your dealership put forth the effort to address the issue. Some VW dealerships just play the "oh we can't duplicate that" game.

vocus

The selling dealership actually played that game with me too. I took it to the dealership I am dealing with now, and all is well.

pdr4

I just got (2 days ago) my new, 2002 Jetta GLS 1.8T. I love it. What grade of gas should I put in. The manual says 87, the gas cap says 87/91 and the same engine in the Passat requires 93. Can anyone help? Thanks.

vocus

I have run both 87 and 93 octances in my 2002 1.8T. I notice a little tiny bit of a difference with the 87, but not enough to spend $1.70 on a gallon of premium. Fuel economy stays about the same as well.

tulanekid24

I just closed the deal on a 2002 Jetta GLS 1.8T, 5-speed manual.
It has sport lux, gray leather, monsoon. It's Galactic Blue. I am so excited. I will pick it up on Saturday. It is a dealer trade and has to be trucked in about 400 miles.

sarah233

it sounds like you and i have the exact same car except for color. you will have a great time driving! Congrats.

hkny

Hello everyone.Just got delivery of my 2002 GLS 1.8T. The only thing that bothers me is the rattle coming from the weatherstrips of the doors.
Does anyone came up to solution on this.Thanks!

vocus

My car sits in the shop now because of rattles coming from the dash. A VW rep from Michigan visited it, and ordered a "rubber treatment" package, whatever that is. It's been there for a week now. I hope it will be ready by next week, but we shall see. I have a New Beetle I am driving now though, and it's pretty cool. Also, the customer service is phenominal as well, so that helps.

hkny

Thanks vocus.My wife's 2002 Passat does not have problems with rattle as well. I think this is Jetta specific.Please let me know if that treatment helps and what kind of treatment is it.
I love the car but these rattles are annoying.

xud

hkny - if you can tell the rattles come from
weather strip of the doors, it's good news because
they can be easily fixed. My car had rattles from weather strip of doors too (it took
3 visits to two different dealerships before
they really identify the source). My dealer fixed them by applying Silicon spray richly inside/outside the strip. It took less then 10 minutes.

vocus

This is time number 4 in the shop for the same problem. I hope it works too, because I love the car. If not, I am going to try to return the car or exchange it for another one under my state's lemon law. I told VW this as well, I think that's why they are being so attentive to my needs right now. We will see what happens though.