Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

rolands

I have the ZR rated Pilot Sports and they are great. Car handles very well in tight turns. Took a curve merging to another road at 80 MPH and the tires were glued to the pavement. Just my 2 cents.

microrepair

Yes, they are the AVS db model. However, I've got the 225-50/16 size on mine. Maybe there is a difference due to the diameter.

I put them on the car back in September and immediately drove to Montana and back, from Massachusetts. Almost 6000 miles and they were excellent although I began to notice some faint "whining" at speed. Then I drove to Florida and back last month. In between was a couple of months of around town driving. So it's been a mix of highway and city driving. Sometime between the two trips, the tires got progressively noiser and notchy.

It hadn't occurred to me to call Yokohama and see if maybe these are from a bad batch. I will do that soon.

bigrobnh

one of the features of the E Class is that if you're in an accident that involves deploying the air bags or the car rolls over, it performs an SOS call. Is this lost if you cancel TeleAid?

I also see others here in this forum mentioning that they use it as a form of replacement for LoJac and get discounts on insurance. Is this lost as well?

Thanks,
BigRob.

rtcjr

Does MB offer a radio receiver for any of the new subscription-based satellite radio systems? If not, any idea when MB will? What about an after-market source?

jbors

Hello all of you E-class experts. I recently purchased a 97 e-420 with the factory mb phone (presumably of the same vintage). Does anyone know if that vintage phone can be programed to share a cell number with an existing portable cell phone for a slight extra monthly charge? Has anyone tried this with a provider with success? I'm located in the San Francisco Bay area.

Thanks for any response pro or con.

cmayer

My understanding is that the serial number of a cell phone is part of the connect information. As such, only one phone can use a cell number. This requirement was probably created by the cell phone lobby.

I wouldn't be surprised if somebody can get around this, but you probably won't find him with a storefront.

Of course, the rules may have changed and I'm unaware of that.

rbrenton88

Not really. The number attached to the handset is how the switch network locates/identifies the owner for both billing and connection purposes. It must be unique for technical reasons. Your only option is to use call forwarding from the handheld phone to the car phone, or vice versa, but this wouls still involve two distinct numbers.

dunninla

I tried to get insurance credit for the "lojack-like" functionality of TeleAid, but was denied twice by Mercury Insurance. Send them product descriptions and everything. (If anybody from MBUSA is monitoring this...That's Mercury Insurance of Los Angeles.)

As for the SOS feature, I am pretty sure that is a part of TeleAid.

pcasino

I am considering buying W210 blinking side mirrors from someone in the Nederlands. He said he has sold over 20 blinking mirrors to 1998-99 E class owners in the US. He said they are original MB equipment that he special ordered.

Is there any Edmunds member with any experience in replacing 1998 mirrors with the new blinking mirrors? I would appreciate your $100 worth of opinion on whether it was worth the change or not. This person is selling it for about $350 (I think its too high a price to pay) and I don't know if that price is worth all the hassles of having to connect wires to my A pillar and hoping that my memory and light sensing options will still work with the new mirror.

I would also like to know if anyone knows where to get these blinking mirrors from here in the US. I need them because my car has almost been side swipped many times in New York City and I am sure those blinking side mirrors will help a lot.

Thanks for your response.

Paul

cce182

To reiterate from an earlier posting on this board, I got a LoJack-equivalent discount from my Carrier, Safety Indemnity Insurance Company in Boston, MA. Keep in mind that Massachusetts is a compulsory-insurance state and all rates are regulated by some sort of state commission. My Agent tells me that folks with OnStar and other similar services have also received discounts, but they ALL (including M-B owners), have to submit proof of some kind that it's installed and activated. Carriers selling in Massachusetts can only compete on service and their financial stability since pricing is identical for all carriers. I would be surprised if TeleAid SOS works if you aren't a TeleAid subscriber. You can find out by pushing the button under the little red trapdoor, of course (you don't need to run into a concrete pier to set it off). I understand that when an active system goes off, the first thing they ask is whether you can talk, and how they can be of assistance. If they don't get a voice response, then, and only then, they call for help. So, I don't think you can get in trouble by pushing the button. It'd be safer to call their 800#, of course. Maybe someone will come on, but it'd probably be to ask for your credit card number.

valueguy

The new 'E' should be a better car than the current W210 model. However, the hood and side fenders are no longer steel. Instead, "lightweight" aluminum is being used.
Also, no longer will a full size spare tire be included; M-B is giving a tire patch system to repair your flat. The Interior is supposed to be better grade materials but I will wait and see for myself. The new dash looks "cheaper" in my opinion.

The bottom line is newer is not always better in every aspect as previous E class owners have found out. M-B needs to prove the quality of the new 'E' and convince us that it is worth trading "up" for the new model. How many people on this board would actually choose a '96 E320 over a '95 E500? This same comparison may hold true for a '01 E-55 vs. a '03 E320. (The price of a '01 E-55 should be close to a '03 E320.)

mark156

Valueguy, I don't think a 2003 E class will start at $70,000. (price of '01 E-55) My '00 E430 sport was $60,800 list. I think the 2003 E320 will come in closer to $49K for starters.

M.

habitat1

First, in the interest of full disclosure, I own a 540i 6-speed and have always been drawn to the more sporting side of BMW vs. Mercedes. That said, I always had great respect for the quality and solidity of Mercedes, particularly the previous genertion(s) of the E-class. One associate of purchased the original 300E (1987?) and has handed it down through his family ever since. I fully admit that it has shown greater durability than similar vintage 5-series.

The current generation redesign caught my attention in terms of aesthetics, but, as many members of this board report, quality problems crept in. The same associate of mine bought a 1997 E420 and, to this day, has an occassional electrical hiccup when he turns on his lights / fog lights.

Personnally, I think over the last few years Mercedes has milked its quality reputation for all it's worth, at the cost of reputation and customer satisfaction. I believe that, if Mercedes is going to remain a premier marquee, it will need to refocus upon delivering quality. It used to be that BMW appealed to the more sporting guys & gals and Mercedes to the luxury / quality buyer. Lately, I have personally seen a large number of classic Mercedes buyers switch to BMW, not for performance, but for quality. The 530i has been a preferred choice among my peer group over the E320, based as much upon quality as sportiness.

The new E looks very attractive. More so than the new 5, in my opinion (I'm trading up later this year to an M5 to get the last of the current design). I sincerely hope for Mercedes sake, they get the quality side back on track. I may be a BMW loyalist, but I would much rather see Mercedes reputation restored than see their quality throne continue to be occupied by Lexus. Lexus stirs as much passion in me as generic brand vanilla ice cream.

As for pricing, I really can't see how Mercedes can go any higher with the E. A well equiped 530i can be had for under $42k through European Delivery. I got my 540i 6-speed for under $52k. I'll be getting an M5 for under $73k. To think that Mercedes can sell many 2003 E320's for over $50k and E500's for over $60k is exceedingly optomistic, in my opinion. Especially when many of their bread and butter conservative quality oriented buyers are now looking elsewhere for comparison. We'll have to wait and see.

rbrenton88

I'd take an '01 E55 over an '03 anything, anytime, anyday.

rbrenton88

...except an '03 E55, or whatever they'll call it.

valueguy

Remember, the '01 E-55 is a USED car and comes with most option packages as standard. A new '03 E320 with the same equipment will cost as much as a USED mint, low mileage E-55 especially if M-B dealers do not discount the '03 model.

My '00 E430 Sport with E1,E2,E3, multicontour seats and phone/CD (K2a) listed for more than $60,000. My car is in mint condition with 15,000 miles (and new tires of course). I also have the M-B extended warranty (8/100,000). Yet, my car is worth around $48,000 today. In about 6 months time my car will be worth $45-46,000 and a E-55 should bring 51-52,000. A new well-equipped '03 E320 will cost about the same as that mint '01 E-55.

tomskyjl

Mercury Insurance also refused to give me a discount for TeleAid.

Jack

rroyce10

........ I'm assuming the $48 figure is a retail "asking price" .. right?

The reason why I ask is, there doing about $41ish at the auctions .. if, they are puurrrfect. And should be doing "in and around" $37ish in 6 months ..if, the the current market prevails.

Terry.

habitat1

Question for mark156 and valueguy: At $60k+ list, why did you go the E430 Sport route instead of an E55? Was it due to limited availibility, or other factors??

The reason I am curious is that I'm planning on trading up from my 2000 540i 6-speed to an M5, based upon a very good deal the dealer is giving me. In the case of the M5, it would have cost me $20k+ more it in 2000 and it will cost me about $30k+ to trade up now, but I still consider it worth it. I can only guess you didn't think the E55 was worth an extra $10k when you are already in $60k+ territory with your E430's?

valueguy

What does an '01 E-55 auction for? What does an M5 auction for?
I can sell my car locally for $45,000 easily.
Where are you located? Are theses auction cars really equivalent to a one-owner driven M-B? Would you buy one of these auction vehicles for yourself over a one-owner vehicle?

I was able to negotiate a substantial discount off MSRP on my '00 E430 while the '00 E-55 was full MSRP. My purchase price difference was more than $15,000.

valueguy

Does anyone know when this car will actually be available in the USA? Will it have the SL's 476HP V-8 engine?

Any opinions on the new "lightweight" aluminum panels compared to German steel? Unfortunately, I think this new E-55 will be faster and have more gadgets than the current model but be inferior as far as quality is concerned. M-B is truly becoming part of DaimlerChrysler in all aspects
as quality surveys are pointing out. If the '03 model proves me wrong on the quality issue I will buy an '04 or '05 E-55. More likely, Lexus will continue to steal market share and become the number one marque for quality.

Lexus is considering a super GS in '04 or '05 to compete with the 500HP '04 BMW M5.

habitat1

The current 400 hp M5 is a nearly two ton four door sedan capable of getting to 60 in under 5 seconds and 100 mph in under 12 seconds. How much more power does anyone need?

I am sure there will always be some demand for a 500hp, 600hp or more version from the "mine is bigger than yours" market segment. But, IMHO, the current Lexus GS430 has TOO much power for its suspension and chassis. The current M5 and E55 are engineered to handle 350 to 400 horsepower. The 300 hp Lexus GS tears up tires trying to compensate for excessive body roll, compared to my current 540i. I have real concerns that putting a 400 to 500 horsepower engine in a Lexus suspension is simply irresponsible. And I doubt that Lexus, notwithstanding their excellent reputation for quality, is going to suddenly be able to compete with likes of BMW, AMG, Porsche and Ferrari in building 175+ mph supercars. I might be proven wrong, but they have had 5 years to fix the GS handling and it is still inferior to BMW 5-series.

I for one will be very happy driving a 2002 M5 that has the handling capabilities to go along with it's 400 horsepower.

mbnut1

My speculation on the new E is that the quality will be better than the current car at least in terms of interior materials. This is based on reports about the new SL which have indicated that it's quality is much better than other recent Mercedes offerings. Auto Express magazine said the following about the new E "The interior is spacious, especially in the boot, and it feels far better built than anything Mercedes is currently producing - and that includes the S-Class. Expect a very similar look and feel to make it to the rest of the three-pointed star's range very soon."
I suspect that Mercedes knows that it's reputation for quality is deteriorating and will be using the new E to restore it's standing as a top quality producer of automobles. The rub will come in with the additional gadgets that they are putting on the car. These could continue to be an Achilles heal for MB.

rg6

The high mount brake lamp (below rear windshield) of my 99 E430 has gone out. Can anyone tell me how to replace it? I couldn't find any mention of it in the manual.
Thanks.
RG

livetodrive

The replacement of my fog light lamp was done under warrantee in a few minutes without an appointment. The high mount brake lamp should, therefore, also be covered. You may want to ask your dealer.

bn_shopn

I'm getting real close (2-3 weeks) to taking the step into the 2002 E320. Can anyone recommend any fair/honest dealer in the Baltimore/DC area? Closest to me would be R&H Motor Cars or Younger in Hagerstown (other recommondations?)

With the 2003 redesign around the corner, any incentives being offered?? If not, what do you think is good price right now for a new 320 w/ E2 and heated seats?

mbe320se

I have heard of $46500 being possible for a 2002E320 with the moonroof/rain sensor etc + heated seats. This was in december of 2001, maybe the price is higher now. Experience is with dealers in NJ, should be similar down in MD.

valueguy

I am considering the '04/'05 Lexus GS L- tuned version, the '04/'05 E-55 and the '04 M5.
The current M5 has only a 6-speed tranny and I prefer an auto in my warp speed sedan. The "new" M5 should have BMW's SMGII tranny as an option.

Lexus knows its weakness is handling and not performance. The next generation version should put the car close to BMW in terms of handling.
I actually prefer the M-B sedan and will pay up for the new E-55 provided initial quality surveys are excellent on the '03 E500/E320. I have nothing against BMW cars. I am about to purchase a 330CiC 5-speed in 7-10 days. But, I prefer the M-B ride in a sedan.

Overall, I really like my '00E430 and every time I think about trading her in I just can't do it.
Also, who would not want an AMG E with 476 HP?
A car with great handling, luxury and performance.

habitat1

I have a personal friend who is a fleet leasing exec with Euromotors in Bethesda MD. He just leased two E320's to my business partner and our attorney and they are both exceptionally pleased. However, since I notice that you are also shopping a 5-series, I would prefer to have you decide which car you are going to get first. If you decide to go the Mercedes route, I would be pleased to give you a referral.

P.S. Valueguy - if you drive a manual now (or soon will be), how could you NOT go for the 6-speed BMW M5? Have you driven it? I drove a new 2001 model for a day in November 2000, and I'm still not completely over the experience. Not just the power, but the handling and super smooth shifting of the 6-speed (I was expecting "notchy", but it was nowhere to be found). The C32 I drove this past November just didn't do it for me. The car has lots of power and the automatic was indeed quick shifting, but there is just something missing in the clutchless experience. IMO ,the "manual" mode in any auto-manual, tiptronic or steptronic is just a gimmick. I can see the luxury buyer being hesitant to go "back" to a manual, but for the sporting buyer, there is nothing like a 6-speed M5.

valueguy

Before deciding to purchase the manual 330CiC I test drove a 6 speed M3 convertible. While the power was great I found the transmission a bit notchy when cold. After the car was warm however it shifted great. The 330Cic had adequate power, was easiy to shift and had good handling. I got $1000 off MSRP and the wait time was 2-3 months. I like a manual in my sports cars. But, in my luxury cars I prefer an auotmatic or SMG like transmission. This is one reason I kept my '00 E430 and did not trade it in on the M3 (or 330Cic).

This is my preference pure and simple. However, I believe the majority of buyers in the $70,000 plus category agree with me. This is why M-B continues to offer an automatic with their AMG versions. As for the M5, it is a great car but the back seat is a joke and can not hold two large adults. The current "E" has just enough room for four adults and I want that minimum amount of space in a sedan.

Plus, the '04 M5 will have 500HP and the SMGII transmisssion as an option. The new M5 will be larger on the inside, faster and have more technology for about the same price. In about 12 months time the current M5 will be dated and worth significantly less than MSRP.

john01

Just watched a segment on German TV about the new E. Very nice car indeed. Wife says she still would have picked 530i, but I don't know. The airmatics suspension seems to work quite well. No visible body rolls through turns.

Habitat1, I also have a good friend at the Euromotors and am sending him the new E brochure.

Edsoto

I'm looking at dealers around NYC, and cannot find anyone who is negotiating around 46500 for an E320 with E2/Heated Seats!

Any suggestions or recommendations?

Thanks,
Ed

Edsoto

The article is a review of the new C-230 2 door car:

...
For years, Mercedes has cut costs in an effort to hold the line on prices. Materials that look and feel relatively cheap have been showing up even in expensive models like the S-Class sedan, but have been especially notable in the M-Class sport utility. At the same time, the revered Mercedes brand has been dropping in quality and durability rankings.

Just a note...

Ed

bn_shopn

As you point out I'm still torn between the 5 and 320 even though I drove both of them. You seem to be shopping for 5 also, any thoughts you'd like to share? Once the decision is made, I'll ask for that referral.

merc1

Did they really say that about the new E? I too am hoping that Mercedes uses the new E to revive their previous postion of quality. Do you know anything about the 2003 S-Class/CL facelift? It seems the that new SL too has started to reverse the trend, by going back to building it the Mercedes way.

M

habitat1

I think both cars are excellent. The E has a size advantage, particularly in the rear seat if you frequently carry large adult passengers (I'm 5'7" and have never felt uncomfortable in the back of a 5-series). The 530i on the other hand has the "sporting" advantage, with steering and handling that are truly best in class. Plus the availability of a 5-speed manual. Had I not elected to get an S2000 as a third car last November, I would have either replaced our family Trooper with an E320 4-matic Wagon or my business sedan with a 530i sport 5-speed.

It really comes down to personal preferences.

pcasino

So I cannot afford an E55, M5, nor even an E430, but like the majority of Edmunds E class owners, I am proud of my E320 with a wonderful reliable 216 hp engine and I would pit myself against any E55, M5 or M55 in any US highway as long as a Highway Patrol is with us.

But seriously, my factory warranty ended in November and recently, one of the low beam bulbs in the inner headlamp burned out and like the majority of E class owners in Edmunds, I would like to be practical and change my own light bulb, especially if it will save me a couple of hundred dollars. I was successful enough to remove the rear plastic cover of the light assembly and get to the rear side. Removing the high beam bulb took me two seconds but I could not remove the low beam bulb. Does anyone have any experience on how to do this, aside from going to my dealer and asking him to do it.

thanks
(the gratis goes to an E55 owner who can respond to this as well)

mark156

EPN2.... the reason that I bought the E430 vs. the E55 is that I didn't think it was worth the difference in price. I wanted my car right away as I was trading in a '91 560SEL with 82,000 miles. My E was on the lot and ready to go. 275 horse power is plenty for me. Honestly, I might go with the E320 next time. The low profile sport tires are rather rough but they do handle very well. I only have 14,000 on my car now and it has been flawless except that I had the clock replaced because it ran slow.

Mark

pcasino

So I cannot afford an E55, M5, nor even an E430, but like the majority of Edmunds E class owners, I am proud of my E320 with a wonderful reliable 216 hp engine and I would pit myself against any E55, M5 or M55 in any US highway as long as a Highway Patrol is with us.

But seriously, my factory warranty ended in November and recently, one of the low beam bulbs in the inner headlamp burned out and like the majority of E class owners in Edmunds, I would like to be practical and change my own light bulb, especially if it will save me a couple of hundred dollars. I was successful enough to remove the rear plastic cover of the light assembly and get to the rear side. Removing the high beam bulb took me two seconds but I could not remove the low beam bulb. Does anyone have any experience on how to do this, aside from going to my dealer and asking him to do it.

thanks
(the gratis goes to an E55 owner who can respond to this as well)

shipo

During my run this afternoon, I went straight past the MBUSA headquarters (where I usually turn) and continued down the hill past the CAC (Customer Assurance Center where all calls to and from customers start (in theory)). In the lot, I saw a heavily disguised black four-door sedan, which out of the corner of my eye, I thought to be a C-Class. I then asked myself, “Why would MBUSA disguise a C-Class?” Hmmmm, time for a closer look.

The car was black with a light gray interior, nicely appointed with maybe a little less plastic than the previous (current W210) vintage. The car was locked, so I could not get a feel if there is any difference in interior room, but even though the car looks a little smaller from the outside, it seems to be at least as large inside. I really like the looks of this car, and were it not for the fact that MBUSA still refuses to import E-Class cars with manual transmissions, I would have one on order right now. That said, I suspect that many folks who could care less about the tranny will be quite happy with this lovely car.

Best Regards,
Shipo

P.S.

Sitting right next to this E-Class was a new totally undisguised SL500 in silver, talk about a car that just cries out for a 6-Speed manual.

mbnut1

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mbnut/php3/openframe.php3?page=previews/preview_main_new.php3?id=33396

merc1

Thanks!

M

dl7265

Thx for the link but theres that darn Alfa 156 that we cant get here , theres something attractive about the little Italian car.

DL

valueguy

At my local M-B dealer that is. I had my oil changed today at 15,000 miles. The midway point between my last change and my next service interval. The dealer charged me $84.00 for Mobil 1 (5/40) -9 quarts. This seems like a lot for an oil change. I would like to read opinions on this price. Should I skip the midway oil changes and stick with the 10,000 mile intervals? After all, most regular oil will last 6-7,000 miles so I think the synthetic would hold up just fine for 10,000 miles especially with the extra oil the M-B engine holds.

The review on the new "E" is exactly like I thought it would be. The car is better but the electronics (braking, accelerating, etc) are not "quite" right yet. The AMG E needs to have the braking and accelerating "right" before I will buy the next E. Otherwise I will be buying the 500 HP M5 next. BMW realizes that braking, accelerating and handling are the essence of the driving experience not just more technology.

joeadp

I too changed the oil at the mid point.

My fee for Mobil 1 change from a NY dealer $93.

The first time I took it to my local service station and the price was about the same.
After that experience I figured the dealer should change the oil. Rather have Mercedes have a record the oil was changed every 6000 miles.

Interestinly on my leased car I push the oil change to the limit. Being I own the E Class I am will to spend on that extra oil change.

It will be interesting to see the new E.
I would be interested in the E500 but only after year one.

Regards,

joe

rroyce10

....... To quickly answer a few of your questions (check my profile) ... I'm off to Statesville, NC. to find a few vehicles.

01 M5's .. clean, 5/7/9K are doing "around" $61ish at the auctions ..You can always find me hanging out at "Real world trade in values".

Terry.

valueguy

Thanks for your response. Your "real world" trade values do not always reflect curb appeal.
That is, a mint condition "E" which looks brand new and has all the goodies including the Sports package and the M-B extended warranty will go for more than Trade-value.

I have had more than one offer for greater than trade value already. Secondly, an "auction" vehicle may have been driven hard and the price needs to reflect a degree of uncertainty in the vehicle. As the vehicle ages condition, appearance and mileage along with the extended M-B warranty (8yr./100,000 mile)matter a lot to the potential buyer especially a used Mercedes-Benz buyer.

As a dealer you need to keep a margin of safety in your purchases. The real word re-sale price must be a few thousand (minimum) greater than your purchase price. I assume you will resell
that M5 for at least $65,000.

Thanks four your input and best of luck finding "gems" at the auction.

Kirstie_H

We are looking for lawyers (any age, sex, kind of car) who are car nuts.

Please respond by March 9 to lordusky@aol.com

Any questions? Contact Edmunds.com PR at jfallon@edmunds.com

Thanks!
kirstie_h
Roving Host
Edmunds.com

rroyce10

...... l..o..l... I'm not quite sure what the "curb appeal" has to do with the discussion -- I buy probably 30/40 Benz's a year at the auctions.. and 90% them are pre-sold.

99% of the Benz's that go through the block, are there for one reason and one reason only. It's not because they have been driven hard, it's not because there is some uncertainty.

It's because Benz Dealers, like a Porsche, BMW, Lexus or a Chevy dealer have only X amount of dollars.

You can have the most perfect vehicle sitting on the ground .. but, if it isn't selling in a hurry, it's time to cut it from the herd.. period. It's just a matter of economics.

Especially the high line vehicles. A dealer can't sit on $40/$50/$60,000 for any length of time, especially when they are paying 1/4 point over prime for their floor plan and there is 6/7 sitting around the place. I bought a 01 E430 yesterday with 6,623 miles, with the sport pack and all the goodies, paid $45,900. The Benz dealer will take the money and go on to the next vehicle.

As far as the Extended warranties are concerned .. there an aftermarket product -- and they can be bought at the dealer (if needed) .. or go online and pay a lot less for for the coverage, especially when the Benz dealer makes 40% profit on everyone he sells.

The reason why people trade vehicles, is for one simple reason -- not because there is a fault, damage or a question in their mind .. it's because they can. That's why I was a little surprised at your response. Also try to keep in mind, the Benz dealers are not only there to sell a few vehicles, but to buy some .. whether it's a S Class or an C Class.

*Secondly, an "auction" vehicle may have been driven hard and the price needs to reflect a degree of uncertainty in the vehicle. As the vehicle ages condition, appearance and mileage along with the extended -MB warranty (8yr./100,000 mile)matter a lot to the potential buyer especially a used Mercedes-Benz buyer.*

Terry.

eyeslasher

need to buy replacement tires for 2000 e430 235/45 r17?
does anyone have opinions on a tire for performance that is relatively quiet.
Anyone have experience with the pirelli 7000 supersport_I have heard that they become noisy over time.