Chrysler Minivan Transmission Problems

97xpresso

You had your transmission serviced where??? (yes I've heard of pep boyz) Does it say on the receipt what fluid they used? I would go for a flush with ATF+4 at the dealer, but it may be too late

runner29

hey there, i just had the same issue in my 1998t&c , i have a great mecanic and he found a problem with the valve body inside the transmission. the charge was $250. i know by now that this van has a lot of transmission problems. hopefully this will correct the issue.
gotta run....

rsmartin

my 2001 t&c limited chucked its tranny for the first time at 70,000 miles (broken planetary or sun gear), did it again about 2 months later (fixed under shop warranty), and for the third time 2 months ago at 120,000 miles (broken gear again). i quizzed the shop about the ATF fluid and they assured me they used the right stuff. the fact that gears are actually breaking causing catastrophic failure indicates some kind of engineering problem to me. i think all this talk about the ATF fluid is a smoke screen by Chrysler to cover up the real truth.. they just build crap!

btw, my latest Chrysler repair of the month is a new radiator 2 days ago

other things i've spent on include front engine seals, valve covers twice, alternator within a month of purchase (bought it used at 30,000 miles), new radio because the dash lights wouldn't work, new hatch latch to correct malfunctioning power tailgate, replaced a/c condensor and other a/c stuff. both power side doors have failed and are difficult to open and shut.

i can't remember what else i've done. i think i've spent about $8,000 dollars on this thing since we got it.

looking for another minivan but doesn't look like the alternatives are all that exciting either. wife turned down my choice of MB R320 CDI due to insufficient cubby holes and s....t. likes Honda Touring but seems like Honda has problems too.

whatever the next one is, i will be sure to have a very long and comprehensive warranty!!

shipo

Okay, I'll bite...

Our 1998 DGC Sport with the 3.8 liter engine lost its original transmission at 109,000 miles, just a few months after a tranny flush and fluid change. Interestingly enough, shortly after the tranny service, I posted here in the TownHall that the transmission felt like it was shifting very harsh. A few weeks later, BANG, dead tranny. The post mortem indicated that one or more of the internal clutches failed (probably the TC lock-up clutch) and sent shrapnel throughout the transmission. When clutches fail, it is almost always either the fluid that is the culprit or excess heat. I'm fairly confident that we can rule out excess heat in this case.

"my 2001 t&c limited chucked its tranny for the first time at 70,000 miles (broken planetary or sun gear), did it again about 2 months later (fixed under shop warranty), and for the third time 2 months ago at 120,000 miles (broken gear again)."

As a general statement, planetary gears are extremely robust. Other than your van, I've never heard of a single DC minivan failing due to a planetary gear failure, and I've been following the transmission issues with these vans since my kid brother got one of the early ones in his Gen2 van. This leads me to believe that the problems that you're experiencing may be of your own making. With that in mind, one obvious question strikes me, "Do come to a complete stop before shifting from Reverse to Drive or from Drive to Reverse? Every time?"

"i quizzed the shop about the ATF fluid and they assured me they used the right stuff. the fact that gears are actually breaking causing catastrophic failure indicates some kind of engineering problem to me."

Could you point me to posts from other folks where they have confirmed component failures in their transmissions that then caused a transmission failure? If you can, that would go a long way toward supporting your argument. That said, what do they consider the "right stuff"? Any number of shops claim that they can add some magic elixir to standard Dextron tranny fluid and suddenly it is the "right stuff".

"i think all this talk about the ATF fluid is a smoke screen by Chrysler to cover up the real truth.. they just build crap!"

Like I said before, I've been following the problems of these transmissions for a long time now, and before we bought our 1998 DGC, I had been pretty much convinced, based upon the evidence at hand, that the tranny fluid was the culprit in the vast majority of failed transmissions. Heat, as in towing without a tranny cooler, or from heavy stop and go driving in high summer temperatures seem to account for the remainder. Said another way, your sampling of one vehicle and a couple of transmissions is statistically irrelevant and as such, your comment about the "truth" and Chrysler's build quality is just as irrelevant and unsubstantiated.

"btw, my latest Chrysler repair of the month is a new radiator 2 days ago"

A fairly typical repair for ANY vehicle with that many miles on the clock, ESPECIALLY if the coolant hasn't been refreshed once or twice since the van was new.

"other things i've spent on include front engine seals, valve covers twice, alternator within a month of purchase (bought it used at 30,000 miles), new radio because the dash lights wouldn't work, new hatch latch to correct malfunctioning power tailgate, replaced a/c condensor and other a/c stuff. both power side doors have failed and are difficult to open and shut."

A few things occur to me:
1) Since you bought the van used, you have no way of knowing how well it was treated (or how horribly it was abused) prior to your ownership.
2) Engine seals and valve cover gaskets at such an early age indicate significant abuse as these engines have proven to be extremely robust with many of them reaching 300,000 miles before a single unscheduled maintenance event occurs, gaskets and seals included. We have two 3.8 liter vans, one of which has over 130,000 miles, and yet neither has ever leaked even a drop of oil.
3) Your van is a first year Gen4 van, and by all accounts, it did have some electronic gremlins that needed to be ironed out. I try to avoid first year vehicles (regardless of manufacturer) for that very reason.
4) The clutches for the power doors are a known problem area. Apparently the supplier of the combined motor and clutch unit has since redesigned the part for that very reason.
5) The Denso alternator in our vans has proven to be EXTREMELY reliable and is in use on many cars from many manufacturers from all over the world. That yours failed shortly after 30,000 miles of service raises all kinds of red flags as to the amount of heat your van was exposed to before you owned it. Hmmm, or the amount of water... Do you know for certain that your van isn't a salvaged flood vehicle?

"i can't remember what else i've done. i think i've spent about $8,000 dollars on this thing since we got it."

Interesting, we have nearly 220,000 combined miles on two DGCs (one Gen3 and one Gen4), and so far we've spent less than $3,000 in unscheduled repairs, including $2,600 for a factory remanufactured transmission for our 1998. Most other folks that I know with DC minivans (or that I communicate with in discussions like this) have experienced similarly low maintenance costs.

"whatever the next one is, i will be sure to have a very long and comprehensive warranty!!"

Probably not a bad idea for y'all. We on the other hand took a pass on the optional extended warranties for both of our vans. Good thing too as we would have spent about $3,500 for the warranties, and the single covered failure would have been an ABS wheel sensor for our 2003 that failed last winter. It only cost about $200 to have replaced. All other repairs to both of our vans (1 transmission, 1 door light switch, 1 vacuum battery tray, 1 set of sway bar bushings) came well beyond the 70,000 mile extended warranty period.

Best Regards,
Shipo

coach_td

Hi,

My transmission has been flawless on my 3.8L 2005 Town and Country. I am currently at 52,000 miles. The owners manual does not recommend changing the transmission fluid. I drive 60 miles round trip all expressway for work (70-75 MPH). I have the extended warranty up to 100,000 miles. Would you change the fluid even though the owners manual does not recommend under normal driving conditions? Let me know your thoughts.

97xpresso

Yes I would change the fluid. A pan-drop, new filter and about 4.5 qts of ATF+4. I was pleasently surprised when I changed mine with a few thousand miles more than you currently have. The internals of the transmission were extremly clean, just a tiny bit of "fuzz" on the pan magnet, even the base of the pan was almost clean. I plan on doing it again when I reach 90-100k miles. Even if you plan to get rid of it before 100,000 miles, it will be re-assuring to the new owner that the trans was maintained.

97xpresso

Yes I would change the fluid. A pan-drop, new filter and about 4.5 qts of ATF+4. I was pleasently suprised when I changed mine with a few thousand miles more than you currently have. The internals of the transmission were extremly clean, just a tiny bit of "fuzz" on the pan magnet, even the base of the pan was almost clean. I plan on doing it again when I reach 90-100k miles. Even if you plan to get rid of it before 100,000 miles, it will be re-assuring to the new owner that the trans was maintained.

kendvm

Just picked up the car from the dealer after being there for the 3rd time in 1 month. We have a T&C van with 65,000 miles on it. It's a 2003. Seems like a lot of people have the same problem, a jerky, slipping feeling when the transmission shifts from low gear only. Dealer says transmission needs a TCM update which is currently not available from DC, that we have to drive the van like it is and that the problem is not going to do harm to the transmission. I know there are a lot of people out there with the same type problem. Is there a fix or do I just have to live with the problem? Any help would be appreciated.

97xpresso

I assume you have the 7/70,000 powertrain warranty? Is the dealer stalling you 'till then? I would make sure all your visits are documented, and that the dealers paperwork clearly states a transmission problem that they chose to do nothing to correct.

kendvm

They supposedly took the transmission apart and changed the parts that would normally cause the problem. They told me that even a new transmission would not necessarily correct the problem as it is a computer update problem that Chrysler is aware of but will do nothing about.

mudra

Is it tough to DIY ? I have never changed the transmission fluid , would welcome some pointers on it.
TIA

97xpresso

I hope your paperwork says exactly what you posted, not what they told you (verbally). I would be very leary that they are avoiding a costly job (for them) until it becomes a costly job for you, when your 70/70,000 lapses.

97xpresso

It is not that hard, just very messy. There is no drain plug, because people would just drain and fill without removing the pan. That's where it gets messy. Remove the pan bolts around three sides and just loosen the 4th side. I proceeded to rap the pan with a rubber mallet, but had to pry it loose with a large screwdriver. Do not bend the pan or mar the aluminum surface. It does let go all of a sudden, hopefully draing into a large container placed underneath. I had a huge sheet of cardboard under the container to catch what missed the large container. After the hanging pan drains, remove the remaining bolts and pan. Clean out the bottom of the pan, there is a removable magnet that catches metal filings as your transmission wears. Ideally there should be just some "fuzz" on the magnet with no large chunks of metal. The transmission filter is a flat square object that can be pulled off downwards from the transmission. (mine was supported by the pan, was not snapped into place) Make sure when you install the new filter, the rubber O-ring is on the tube, and that the old one is no longer there. The new filter does snap nicely into place when forced upwards onto bottom of transmission. Clean off all RTV silicone from pan and mating surfaces. The new filter should come with a cork or rubber gasket, for an easier pan re-install. Upon reinstalling pan, gasket and bolts, a torque wrench should be used, when the bolts are tightened in a criss-cross fashion. I do not have a torque wrench, but used a 1/4" rachet, so excessive torque could not be applied. I was carefull not to over tighten the bolts. It is better if a drip develops, it is from being too loose, rather than a crushed gasket from over tighting. You can always go back and snug things up if necessary. It wasn't that hard, just messy, Make sure you use ATF+4 ONLY.

97xpresso

Just realized you were the one that had your trans serviced at pep boys . The directions I just posted will just remove a 1/3 of your fluid, which is OK if the existing fluid is original, or has always been seviced with ATF+4. They probably used a "one size fits all" fluid. If you are certain they did NOT use ATF+4, I would have the transmission flushed at the dealer, to get all of the wrong fluid out, in the future you can do the pan-drop as described.

wannabemech

You were right on the mark. I checked with a buddy that rebuilds transmissions for a living and he said the computer has to shift between the gears 30-40 times before it smoothes out. The other option provided was having it hooked up to his computer/analyzer and resetting the codes, which I had done...it works great now. Thanks for the assist.

shipo

Cool, glad it all worked out. ;-)

FWIW, when I put a new tranny on our 1998 3.8 liter DGC last Spring, it did shift rough at odd times for a couple of weeks, however, I kind of kept a mental log of each rough shift, and it never messed up the same way twice. I guess it just took a while to learn the weird environment in which I drive. :surprise:

Best Regards,
Shipo

mudra

I checked the invoice on the Pepboys service-around 3K miles ago.
Under Parts it is mentioned:
10 Oz Black HFM Fluid
1Gallon Pennzoil Dexon III
32 OZ Clear ATF Flush

Looks like they screwed up big time. I guess I will have to fight it out with them tomorrow ?
I could go to the dealer and get a flush done but then if my tranny has gone bad pepboys get away with no damages.

shipo

Yup, PepBoys stuck it to you. Good luck getting them to fix the situation. :-/

Best Regards,
Shipo

97xpresso

3,000 miles is a long time to be driving with the wrong (deathron III) transmission fluid. You should get an ATF+4 flush ASAP at the dealer, it "may" not be too late. I doubt you'll get any response from pep-boyz. They are totally clue-less, but they did not do anything with malice. I'm guessing the "10 Oz Black HFM Fluid" is an additive, and how did they flush your trans with only "32 OZ Clear ATF Flush" I doubt they even stock, or know what ATF+4 is. Places like that should just stick to parts sales only, maybe tires and shock/strut service only, like Sears was forced to do after many Federal probes into their preditory service practices.

masterpaul1

You can hold onto the Pepboys receipt and the dealer receipt in case you do have tranny problems. You will be able to prove that Pepboys used the wrong trans. fluid for your vechicle. You can even try to get a letter from the dealership, specifying what type of trans. fluid is only used in their transmissions. If you don't act now, the worse case scenario is the above. On the other hand, you pay for a complete trans. flush, cost about $150, and have no problems. I hope for the best for you. :shades:

mudra

Well, I did go to Pep Boys yesterday and they said that Dexron-3 is fine. I told them that ATF-3 is the recommended one. So they checked with their Tech Support and came back and told me that the additive they had used with Dexron makes it compatible with ATF-3.
Long story short, looks like nobody did wrong except for me.
I called up the dealer to setup a tranny flush and the cost here in NJ is $230.(incl tax).

shipo

No, no, no. You were correct for being concerned and you need to take remedial action NOW!

Point 1: ATF+3 is Chrysler's very specific semi-synthetic formulation and no amount of any additive in the world will make Dextron (of any flavor) compatible with ATF+3.

Point 2: Even if they did put ATF+3 in you 2005 transmission, it will still get destroyed. Why? If you check your Owner's Manual, you will see that your van requires ATF+4, which is Chrysler's fully synthetic transmission fluid, and is backward compatible with ATF+3, not the otherway around.

Summary: Get that stuff out of your transmission pronto or you'll find yourself paying upwards of $3,000 for a new transmission. Once you get your tranny flushed by the dealer, demand that Pep Boyz not only refund the money you paid, but that they also pay for your flush.

Best Regards,
Shipo

97xpresso

Like I said, they don't have a clue, or even know what ATF+4 is. $230 seems very high, even for a dealership. Stay away from Paramus + Westwood.

superwoody

I also have 2003 T&C with a shifting problem (slipping) from 1st to 2nd. It's in the shop today actually. They (Suppose ably) replaced the torque converter, a pump, and some other things the 1st time it was in along with a computer update but it still has the problem. Did your shop make you pay the $100 deductible every time you carried it in for the same problem? Mine says "DC makes us charge the Deduc every time, regardless if it is for the same problem". That just doesn't sound right to me.

Is there a fix out there for this tranny problem????

BTW: This started at 50-55K miles, it now has 59-60K miles.

captainibc

Referring to wannbemech's e-mail, I have a hard downshift problem. I had the oil changed with new filter, used ATF+4 and hard shifting problem started. The hardshift occurs at 30 mph while slowing down. Same symptoms as wannabemech.

When they did the oil change thay used a FRAM filter. The problem started immediately and I went to Chrysler and purchased a Chrysler filter for my transmission 2002 Town & Country 3.8. No change, problem still exsits. Since the oil change, 400 mi. have passed and still no change in condition. What do you think?

shipo

While I've never experienced the "Bump Shift" thing occurring after a fluid change, any number of folks have, and in most cases the response from the dealership/transmission shop is that the TCM signaled "Loss of Prime" (happens on some oil changes and not on others, no explanation as to why). There are two ways of clearing the error, 1) disconnect the battery for some period of time (I don't remember the exact interval, however, I'm sure an hour would be more than sufficient), or 2) have your friendly neighborhood dealership/transmission shop trigger a reset inside of your TCM.

I hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Shipo

captainibc

Thanks Shipo. You've pointed me in the right direction...I hope! I'll disconnect the battery for at least 1 hr. If this does not help I'll bring it to my dealer/transmission shop. Thanks again.

Regards,
Captain IBC

tsguru59

When driving with my cruise control on the transmission will jump in and out of overdrive. It only does this when I have the cruise control on.

shipo

First off, you are most likely not changing gears (or overdrive gears) at all, what you are experiencing is the torque converter locking and unlocking.

Second, depending upon the terrain, the incline (or decline) of the road, your vehicle speed, the load you're carrying and the engine and transmission installed in your van, your transmission should lock and unlock the torque converter. Now, if you are tooling down the freeway at 65 mph, and the road is flat, and you have little load, and you have either the 3.3 or the 3.8 liter engine, then your transmission should lock the torque converter and keep it locked.

Best Regards,
Shipo

mudra

Well, I am in East Brunswick,NJ and the lowest any dealer around here has quoted for a Flush is $200 + tax. I called up PepBoys and discussed the issue with their Service Manager . They did a flush with ATF4 under warranty. Thanks, everybody for your helpful suggestions.

shipo

Where'd they get the ATF+4 from? :confuse:

Best Regards,
Shipo

captainibc

Thanks so much for your advice on my fluid change problem. I did the disconnection of the battery overnight...that didn't work. Today I brought the van back to the guy who changed the fluid & filter. He called someone at Chrysler that he knew (as you suggested) and explained the problem. Chrysler said that the transmission needed to be re-programed with the "quick learn program" because the TCM sensed loss of pump pressure. I returned to Chrysler, had it re-programmed and all is well. Thanks so much for your help.

Captain IBC

PS...$52.99 (1/2 hour labor to do the program)

shipo

Great, glad it all worked out. :shades:

Changing the transmission fluid (on our Caravans) is one of the very few things that I don't do myself for this very reason. I think my dealer charges just over $100 for the tranny service, TCM reprogramming included. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

john120561

Wow! I have been looking for the answer to this same situation in my Caravan tranny. Dealer said he can't feel any thing wrong. You described it perfectly. I have an appointment at the dealership to do what you had done. Thanks for taking the time to share your info. Dealers do not know everything, in fact, I think we know our cars better then they do at times; we drive them! Again thanks for the info.
ZZjohnie

captainibc

I glad the information helped. I think we both owe the answer to Shippo. He lead me in the right direction! Good Luck!

97xpresso

Probably where I got mine... Walmart

shipo

superwoody

Well I got my van back from the shop, after another $100 deductible and a $500 part (tranny computer control module) I am still experiencing the same slipping/hard/funky shift from 1st to 2nd at low rpms. I notice it ALOT in parking lots or slow traffic at red lights when you are just putting around and it shifts at or around 1600-1800 rpms. I don't think the guys at the dealership are ****ing around with me, they have thrown parts at it every time I've had it in, even though it's under the 7/70 warranty still. The $100 deductible is getting old, they charge it every time it hits their shop floor even if it is for the same problem!! I even called Detroit to customer support just to make sure this was correct and of course it was. Because they are installing "different" parts to TRY and fix it, they consider that a different problem. I love my van, and the conveniences of it BUT this is getting old. It would already be gone if not for the beating I would get for it on trade in. I really wanted to hold out for 2-3 more years to get a 08' used, they are going to have the 180 degree swivel captains chairs in the middle row!!">

brucesheffer

99 Town and Country LE extended minivan. Last week I used to get 27 highway and 20 city. Then the transmission started slipping and I took it in for servicing. That resulted in a complete rebuild of the transmission. Now I'm only get 20 and 16. Of course the mechanics are saying that nothing is wrong. What could cause such a drastic change?

I sort of remember that when I bought it the dealer said that the car had two settings one for power and one for economy and I opted for the one for economy. I'm thinking that it was the TCM unit he was talking about, but I don't know.

The engine is a 3.8 high output engine with standard front wheel drive (not AWD).

Anyone have a clue what's going on?

Thanks in advance

shipo

Hmmm, I'm not sure where you're getting some of your information, however, I will make a few points, some will line up with what you've said, some won't:

1) I've never heard of a 3.8 liter Long Wheel Base (LWB) Gen3 van getting a consistent 27 mpg highway. Not saying it can't happen upon occasion, but consistently? I'm skeptical.
2) Mileage of 20 and 16 is a tad on the low side, unless we're talking very cold weather and E10 fuel.
3) I've never heard of such a thing as two power settings. Not saying that there aren't two settings, but until proven otherwise, I believe that's a bunch of bilge water.
4) A "3.8 high output engine"? High output compared to what? A 3.3 liter mill? Okay, I'll buy that. However, in the grand scheme of things, while these engines are fairly torque rich, their horsepower per liter output is WAY down the scale. Consider the following, the 3.8 liter engines in my 1998 and your 1999 produce 180 HP and 240 lb-ft of torque, while the smaller 3.0 liter engine of my most recent car produced 225 HP and 214 lb-ft of torque. See the difference? Had my cars' engine been the same displacement as our minivans, it would have put out 285 HP and 271 lb-ft of torque.
5) As for what's going on, hmmm, probably nothing. What with the cold weather we're having up here in New Hamster these days, our 1998 is getting about 20.5 mpg at a fairly consistent 73 mph on E10 fuel (i.e. 10% Ethanol). In the summer time, that same van will get nearly 23 mpg at that same 73 mph on the same fuel. If I slow down to 65, I can get a fairly consistent 26 on really hot days, once again on E10 fuel.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Best Regards,
Shipo

thepmking

My dad has a 2000 plymouth voyager the guages all went out a cpl. weeks ago we found out that the batery needed replacing. Everything was fine for a cpl. days then the transmission started to downshift for no reason. His driving is mostly around the city limits he is 78 years old and doesn't travel much. I drove the van and it does have a hard downshift almost like it is trying to die. We removed the battery cable over night and it worked fine for a drive or two across town then started the same thing again. Is this a transmission problem or a censor or electrical problem please any suggestions would be appreciated.

shipo

Were I in your shoes, I'd take it to the dealer and have the TCM reset. Relax, this doesn't sound like much of a problem.

Best Regards,
Shipo

tsu670

Here's a question. Can ATF+4 synthetic transmission fluid be used on DC minivan transmissions where ATF+3 was originally installed? Can the two be mixed, as when the transmission is serviced with a new filter and only about 4 1/2 quarts of fluid are replaced?

I'm asking because the place where I bought ATF+3 a couple of years ago doesn't sell it anymore; just ATF+4.

flavife

Like you, I discovered that my dealer no longer sells ATF+3 so I purchased 9 quarts of ATF+4, drained the fluid and poured in 4.5 quarts of ATF+4. About 2 weeks later (1000 miles) I drained the fluid mix, changed the filter and poured in 4.5 quarts of ATF+4 and my 99 Caravan is running fine with 107,000 miles on it. Please note the smell of the ATF+4 is like burnt fluid and it appears to be thicker consistency so I would drive more gently on a real cold morning until it warms up. You can visit the Allpar forum which has information of the Chrylser transmissions. The ATF+4 is what Chrysler has the dealers use. Walmart is now selling the MOPAR ATF+4 fluid for about $4.50/qt. I only use Mopar transmission filters.

Frank

crybick

I drive a 1997 Grand Caravan ES with 3.8 that has 177,000 miles on the clock. It's a shame that the build quality of the van is actually not that bad, and the reliability has been decent, excepting the transmission. Transmission number five was just installed on Monday.

Almost three years ago my mother backed the van out of the garage when it made an awful noise and came to a stop. She got about 134,000 miles out of the original. Her shop (she has a great, honest shop and one particular mechanic that always works on her cars) recommended a Jasper transmission because it had a 3 year warranty and at the time Chrysler only offered...I think it was a one-year warranty? This was April 2004. She paid about $3000 for the Jasper and installation. Since then, the transmission has been replaced three more times.

No. 2 got to where it wouldn't shift in the mornings when it was cold (I go to school at Mississippi State University, and it's just not that cold in Starkville), and apparently it would shift once or twice while the primer pump (something like that) was working, then when it went off it wouldn't shift again until the transmission had warmed up. I'd get to the end of my street and the van would behave like it was in neutral, and the engine would rev and eventually the tranny would catch (this could happen at 3000 rpm, which must've been very hard on it).

No. 3 was replaced because the van couldn't stay in overdrive and would hunt between 3rd and 4th gear.

No. 4 failed Monday before last apparently due to overheating. There was some sort of blockage that prevented the fluid from circulating well and the transmission burned up.

With 177,000 on the clock, I can honestly say that my mother has gotten her money's worth out of the van (ordered direct from the factory, delivered with only 7 miles on the odo Halloween of 1996), but it's a shame that a vehicle that drives great, rides well, has so much interior space, looks great, and has some clever engineering is hamstrung by such poor transmission reliablity.

Transmission numbers 2, 3, and 4 were all replaced for free, but the warranty ends in April. Has anyone else had experience, positive or negative, with a rebuilt Jasper? I can't say I'm impressed, and I baby this vehicle.

Thanks,
Cliff

crybick

I read earlier that someone had mentioned the planetary gearing in his transmission failing, and another poster said that he'd never heard of it before.

From Jasper's website on the 41TE page:

6. For 3.3 and 3.8 applications, to handle the torque of larger V6 engines, we install a heavier planet and larger transfer shaft.

Original planets and stock transfer shafts were known to break under heavy loads.

shipo

I frequent a number of different forums (fora?) that discuss the DC minivans. Regardless of where I go there is almost universal disdain for the Jasper rebuilds. That your mom's van has eaten three of their units in less than 50,000 miles doesn't sound at all out of line with other rants that I've read about their products.

Last year when the tranny lunched itself in our 3.8 liter DGC I went for a factory remanufactured transmission from my dealership. Priced at $2,600, including a 3 year/36 month warranty, it was the best deal going. The other little tidbit about the factory reman unit is that every one they sell is upgraded to the latest engineering build of that generation of transmission, which in the case of our Gen3 vans means from the 2000 model year. That in turn means that the new transmissions are designed explicitly for the newer/better/more robust ATF+4 transmission fluid.

If (when?) your mom's van chews its way through the forth and final Jasper unit, you just might want to consider a Chrysler reman to take its place.

Regarding the planetary gears, while it is true that transmissions meant for installation with either the 3.3 or the 3.8 liter engines have been reinforced to deal with the extra torque, something in the back of my mind says that it wasn't the planetary gears that were the subject of said reinforcement. Regardless, planetary gear sets are considered to be a very robust methodology for changing rotational ratios. Ever heard of a Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp engine? It powered (among MANY others) the Vought F4U Corsair, the Grumman F6F Hellcat, the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt, the Douglas A-26A (nee B-26 (nee A-26)) Invader, the Curtiss-Wright C-46 Commando and the Douglas DC-6, and in every configuration and regardless of output (often times more than 3,000 hp for short durations), that engine used a planetary gear reduction to drive the propeller. Not too shabby. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

tsu670

Thank you for your response, flavife. I did indeed visit the Chrysler site and found an interesting article comparing ATF+3 to ATF+4 that noted that in some cases ATF+4 may not be compatible on older model Chryslers in that it may cause certain seals to fail. It said that ATF+4 vastly improves on the viscosity breakdown rate of ATF+3, which starts to lose effectiveness after as little as 30,000 miles. The ATF+4 is supposed to keep its viscosity for up to 100k miles.

I don't mind having the ATF+3 replaced every 30k miles, but I just can't find any anywhere. I can't believe Chrysler would abandon it in favor of ATF+4 if there was a chance that seals might fail in older models, so I'm beginning to wonder just what the article meant by "older" models. Perhaps they are talking about pre-1989 vehicles (before the electronic 4-speed transmissions).

shipo

There have been three TSBs issued regarding ATF+3 and ATF+4 usage in 1999 and earlier 41TE/AE transmissions.

TSBs 21-006-01 (June 2001) and 21-004-04 (March 2004) specifically say NOT to use ATF+4 in 1999 and earlier MiniVan transmissions. One of them (I forget which) states that the reason for the restriction is that the torque converter lock up feature might have a problem with the ATF+4. I read elsewhere (allpar.com IIRC) the same as you that the ATF+4 could present a problem with the seals.

Then, not even a year ago, Chrysler released TSB 21-010-06 (April 2006) that inexplicable reverses the two previous TSBs with no explanation as to the reasons for the apparent contradiction.

Personally I still suspect that the introduction of ATF+4 into my 1998 DGC with just over 90,000 miles on the clock was a contributing factor to my transmission failure. I have been soundly criticized from many fronts for stating that opinion, however, that continues to be my opinion none-the-less. In my case the good news is that my Factory Remanufactured transmission is specifically designed for AFT+4, so I no longer have to worry about the lack of ATF+3 availability.

Best Regards
Shipo

tsu670

Many thanks, Shipo, for the reply.

This morning I took our '96 LXI to the independent transmission shop that has serviced the transmissions in all of our cars (mine, wife's and all of my sons') and once again allowed him to change out the fluid with the universal fluid containing ATF+3 additive that he used 3 years and 30,000 miles ago. Did not use ATF+4. The magnet in the pan was clean of any debris. He also inspected the small leak and said it was a common problem with the crimp that connects the steel line to the rubber line on the transmission cooler (for the towing package). A new line is $65 plus installation, but he acknowledged that it probably would not cause a catastrophic failure, and that as long as I continue checking the tranny fluid it should be fine. The vehicle only has 92,600 miles, so I'm hoping to get about 3 more years of service out of her.

He said it would not be a problem topping off with ATF+4. I still have 1/4 quart of ATF+3 left in my garage.