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Nissan Leaf



  • live1live1 Posts: 6
  • live1live1 Posts: 6
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    edited April 2011
    You do have very cheap electric rates compared to CA. The Rate I would be paying for charging a Leaf on top of my current bill would be almost 10 times what your Austin TX rates are. Which makes a Leaf a good choice for you. Not very good in San Diego. Anything past 600 KWHs per month goes to 34 cent per KWH. CA gives lip service to saving fossil fuel and that is the extent of it.

    I used 462 KWH last month and my bill was $82.08. If I turn on the AC it goes up real fast. Same if I was charging an EV.
  • redline65redline65 Posts: 693
    They need to run the same test in San Diego on SDG&E rates. Which are tiered with NO night rates or special EV rates. Notice Summer rates are higher than winter rates for SDG&E customers. You get to the tier 4 rate after you use 626 KWHs in a month. With taxes that 31 cents is 34 cents per KWH. If you use their 3.8 miles per KWH it comes out to .089 cents per mile. At $4 per gallon the Prius will cost you about .079 cents per mile. Just does not make any sense to own a Leaf unless you are generating your own solar electricity. That is still a debate in my mind even with a lease.

    But you need to factor in the maintenance and repair costs on the internal combustion engine in the Prius for a true cost per mile comparison. The LEAF has no ICE, so saying .089 cents vs .079 cents isn't really a fair comparison.

    And "ouch" on the 34 cents per KWH. In Houston our rate is around 9 cents/KWH. :)
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    And "ouch" on the 34 cents per KWH. In Houston our rate is around 9 cents/KWH.

    You got that right, ouch. I just suffer in the heat during the summer rather than run up my electric. SDG&E will give you a 5% discount if you let them hook up a device that locks out your AC during peak loads.

    Bottom line is CA talks a lot about going green and cutting fossil fuel use. They just do nothing to make it feasible.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,992
    edited April 2011
    "But you need to factor in the maintenance and repair costs on the internal combustion engine in the Prius for a true cost per mile comparison."

    But the components that mostly fail in any car have nothing to do with the ICU...electrical components, sensors, power steering pumps, AC units, transmissions, interior components, etc.... The prius is rated by JD Powers as it's "most reliable" used compact car, but we don't yet know anything about long-term reliability for the Leaf, so we have to base it on other Nissan vehicles. A vacuum cleaner, dishwasher, clothes dryer, etc...all run just on an electric motor and folks have repair issues with those too. No ICU doesn't equal no mechanical problems.
  • redline65redline65 Posts: 693
    But the components that mostly fail in any car have nothing to do with the ICU...electrical components, sensors, power steering pumps, AC units, transmissions, interior components, etc.... The prius is rated by JD Powers as it's "most reliable" used compact car, but we don't yet know anything about long-term reliability for the Leaf, so we have to base it on other Nissan vehicles. A vacuum cleaner, dishwasher, clothes dryer, etc...all run just on an electric motor and folks have repair issues with those too. No ICU doesn't equal no mechanical problems.

    What about maintenance items associated with an ICE? They add up over the life of the car and need to be taken into account. It doesn't matter how reliable the Prius is, there are additional costs associated with maintaining an ICE. Specifically, things like:

    Oil changes
    Engine air filter
    Coolant flush
    Coolant hoses
    Coolant thermostat
    Fuel Filter
    Fuel injector & throttle body cleaning
    PCV Valve
    Spark Plugs
    Engine drive belts
    Timing belts

    Not sure about transmission, does the LEAF have some sort of fluid-filled transmission that requires servicing as well?
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,992
    True but there's a difference between maintenance and repairs. One big repair job will cost a lot more than a bunch of routine maintenance items, especially in today's ICE that require little if any maintenance prior to 100,000 miles except for an oil change.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    Nissan Motor Co. says it is conducting a service campaign on 5,300 Nissan Leaf electric cars in the North American, Japanese and European markets to fix a potential software flaw that could keep the vehicles from restarting after they are turned off. rs/
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 24,939

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    edited June 2011
    The Leaf sales for May are dismal but over twice the Volt sales. 1142 sold last month. There are two running around my little town. I will ask one of the owners in a couple months what their electric bill is running?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 24,939
    >I will ask one of the owners in a couple months what their electric bill is running?

    Ask them what range they have been able to use and if they've had to have a tow. ;)

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • coontie66coontie66 Posts: 110
    As I understand it the Leaf is avaiable in most states while the VOLT so far has very limited production and is available in just a few states... the number 7 or 8 seems like what I heard.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    It looks like So CA has a good supply Leaves. I just noticed something a prospective buyer should think about. Only the high end SL offers this option.

    Quick Charge Port
    Allows for charging to 80% in 30 minutes at 440V charging stations (This option cannot be added after sale)

    It is a $700 option that you would have to have if you expected to charge your vehicle at any of the Quick Charge stations being built. It is not even available on the SV model. hmmmmm
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Dismal, really? Depressing and Dreary?

    I think they are about what they should be. Early adopters with cash to spend in a bad economy.

    How fast would the Leaf have sold in 2004-2005, when the economy was booming and people had money to spend?
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    I am going by the reality of the Leaf Sales. The dealer I stopped to talk to told me they are all pre-sold and thousands waiting to deliver. Which must have been a lie. As there are 67 available here in So CA according to Edmund's. They have only sold 2100 since they went on the market the end of last year.

    I noticed something interesting on the Nissan Leaf site. San Diego already has 61 high voltage DC charging stations. Los Angeles has none. San Fran has a few as does Portland, Seattle, Phoenix, Houston, Nashville & Chicago. Buying the base without the 440V charging capability would be a big mistake. I will research where those are here and the charges to charge. Who knows if it is free I may buy one and take it to be charged for free. Beating Sam at his games is always a pleasure.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Well, the 20,000 $99 deposits was a reality. They did have that many. There were numerous news stories, and then I tried to logon to the reservation page once and was told "Max Reservations Reached !" So that was not a lie.

    I think the slow roll-out is why the first 20,000 have not been delivered yet. Or maybe a supply disruption caused by the tsunami has affected the deliveries.

    But the 20,000 reservations? 100% factual. s-will-stop-taking/ -for-2011-leaf-with-u-s-tour eservation-milestone/

    Now - is or was there any guarantee that ALL those 20,000 reservers will *ACTUALLY BUY* a Leaf? Of course not.

    But I'd like to think more than 10% of them have.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Speaking of the 440V charging stations:

    Those would be great if they could put one every 100 miles on every major Interstate freeway in the USA.

    That would allow the Leaf to be used for multiple-day long trips. Albeit S-L-O-W-L-Y.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    edited June 2011
    You may be a bit premature on such a plan. It seems from my google search that finding any charging stations in San Diego is tough. And it seems owners have run into the same roadblock. According to Nissan website San Diego has 1452 level 2 charging stations and 60 DC fast charge stations. In the fine print at the bottom of the Nissan Page is this disclaimer.

    *Researched by Nissan North America based on program announcements, press releases, news stories and public testimony. The charging infrastructure data presented is indicative of the volume of chargers that public and private entities are planning to install in the next several years. Planned volume may not equate to actual installed volume.

    On the Volt website an owner writes:

    For curiosity sake I've been scouring the net trying to find J1772 (Volt and Leaf) compatible public charging stations in San Diego. It appears that not a single one exists in all of the county. There are probably 10-20 sites for the old paddle inductive type (many of which are down). It's a bit disappointing. Anyone know what lies in the future for EV infrastructure?

    He got this response:

    I know you are inquiring about Public charging stations, but San Diego Area Nissan dealers have L2 charging stations available for Leaf owners. The Chevrolet dealer on Balboa in Kearny Mesa is supposed to get a L2 charger for customers in a few months after their remodel. I also heard that Quality Chevrolet in Escondido would be getting one.

    For public charging stations, there really aren't any here yet. There aren't any in the ChargePoint network in San Diego. However, I understand that once the EV Project gets rolling by mid-year there are supposed to be over a 1000 L2 and some L3 charging stations in the San Diego area. See

    My suggestion to any prospective EV buyer. Make sure there is infrastructure in place and what it will cost. Same goes for utility costs for an EV.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Leaf And Volt almost tied for the 2011 sales year. Interesting.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Actually, not premature at all for one state. Oregon already starting this infrastructure build-up:

    As part of the Green Highway project where California, Oregon and Washington are partnering to turn Interstate 5 into the first alternative-fuel-friendly freeway in the U.S., AeroVironment is installing Level 3 EV quick chargers along the route in Southern Oregon.
    For this first phase of the project, from the California state line to the Willamette Valley, 150 miles of the highway will have convenient access to EV chargers that can fully charge a battery in 30 minutes. Eight interchanges will be picked based on common destinations, vehicle range and driving distances. The chargers will be installed by the end of the fall.

    The Green Highway will ultimately run from San Diego to Vancouver, B.C. and will feature not only EV charging and battery swap stations, but alternative fuel filling stations for biodiesel, compressed natural gas and hydrogen. The project is being funded by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act.

    via Engadget

  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    Let me know when it is done and what the cost to recharge is. I wonder how many $billions are wasted on that project? Who's pocket is that money going into? And who has to maintain that system after it is in place?

    Too many of the high dollar projects I saw put into Alaska ended up worthless. The money to build is granted and the project is completed. Then when it breaks no one to maintain it. I am sure with the Feds involved it will be just such a boondoggle.

    If you buy a Leaf get the expensive one with the 440V charging ability. It cannot be added later.
  • jiaminjiamin Posts: 556
    If I have a home charger, is it easy to uninstall and install it by my self if I move?
    I'd guess it's not difficult. Does it require 120V or 220V in the house?
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    edited June 2011
    They are 220V. If you don't get a contractor in most states you run afoul of the law. You can also void your fire insurance.

    You can just use the basic 110V built-in charger and plug it into the wall. It just takes 24 hours to charge that way.
  • early74bearly74b Posts: 34
    For the LEAF, the charger is also Nissan proprietary and hard-wired; for the new Ford EV they plan to use Best Buys Geek squad for installs and it's a portable unit that can be simply 'unplugged' if you move (the plug itself is very similar to an electric dryer one -- 220V) -- for the LEAF you would need to get it reinstalled. Check the forum as they have actual owners that could tell you if they've run into this -- not sure if the 'portable' charger to be offered by Best Buy would work on the LEAF as it hasn't come out yet but I do like that from the get go Ford decided that its charger should be portable.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    edited June 2011
    Ford always has a better idea.. ;)

    I am wondering if the charging stations being put in around the USA will be universal. The goofy ones they put in for the EV-1 were just for the EV-1 and are now all gone. Our tax dollars wasted.
  • jiaminjiamin Posts: 556
    This morning I went to a Nissan dealer just to see how many Leafs they have. I saw a person was charging his two seat car plugged into the Nissan charging station. I asked him if he works at that Nissan dealer he said he works at Hertz, and his car is called ??? under Mercedes-Benz. He said now his car and Leaf and one other brand all share the same charging station, kind like an industry standard.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    Electric Carmaker Think Files For Bankruptcy – Again

    It looks like the end of a long and winding road for Think, the pioneering Norwegian electric carmaker.

    On Wednesday, the Oslo-based company filed for bankruptcy protection in Norway and a court-appointed trustee assumed control of Think’s business, according to Debra Salem, a spokeswoman for its U.S. subsidiary.

    This is the third – and likely the last – trip to bankruptcy court for Think since its founding in the early 1990s. (Battery maker Ener1, Think’s largest shareholder, stated in a regulatory filing that it expected to take a $35.4 million charge.)

    Think was a company ahead of its time in the late ‘90s when it made a plastic-bodied, battery-powered urban runabout called the City that it sold in Europe and leased in the San Francisco Bay Area. (Among its customers was a Stanford graduate student named Sergey Brin.) Ford had acquired a majority stake in Think and pumped $100 million into the development of the City to help it meet California’s zero-emission regulations. But anyone who has seen “Who Killed the Electric Car?” knows what came next when California abandoned its electric vehicle mandate.

    Think this year opened an assembly plant in Indiana and City’s began rolling off the assembly line. In May, the company won a contract to supply the car to federal agencies.

    But Think found itself in the slow lane as the Volt and Leaf began to hit the highway. Last year I drove the latest version of the City in San Francisco. It was a zippy and fun drive, and though much improved over the prototype I first drove in Norway in 2007, it could not match the flawless Japanese quality of the Nissan Leaf.

    While Think never nailed down a retail price for the City, it hinted that it would be around $40,000 – sure to cause sticker shock for buyers who could buy a five-seater, fully equipped Leaf for $10,000 less before state and federal incentives. ankruptcy-again/
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    People Dropped from Leaf Waiting List for Not Having Home Chargers

    Before Nissan sold a single Leaf electric car, it had 20,000 pre-orders in North America alone. Yet some people on this reservation list are mysteriously being dropped, and it could be because they haven't installed a home charging station.

    According to a report by Bloomberg, some of the 20,000 pre-order customers have found themselves dropped from the waiting list with no warning, and then asked to reapply if they could not prove they had a home charging station installed.

    By asking people to reapply for purchasing a Leaf if they can't prove they don't have a charging station for a car they don't own yet, Nissan is setting a pretty screwy precedent, even as they struggle to get cars to customers in a timely fashion.

    Wonder if you only want the more battery friendly 110Volt charger built-in to the car? I would just leave it plugged into a 110v outlet to trickle charge. They claim the high speed charging shortens the life of the battery.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    I'm gonna call B.S. on this one, until I see a report from a Leaf reserver who was REALLY dropped for this reason.

    The comments in the article point out that no one in any of the Leaf forums has reported this happening to them.

    Story sounds like it was written by someone else with an aversion to EVs.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    I'm gonna call B.S. on this one, until I see a report from a Leaf reserver who was REALLY dropped for this reason.

    What did you expect from a pinko commie like Bloomberg? :P

    They said Nissan unexpectedly dropped some from the waiting list temporarily, asking that they reapply if they couldn’t prove they had arranged installation of home-charging units that can cost more than $2,000.

    “My delivery date kept jumping around, from April to ‘pending’ to May to June to July,’’ said Marc Fishman, 42, a movie sound editor from Burbank, Calif.

    Another liberal Hollywood type lying. ar-delivery-date
  • I have a "reservation." I can now order my Leaf, but I must have my home assessment first, or have it waived. Once that is done, I can order.

    I just cannot decide if I want one at this point. :confuse:
  • I ordered in May. My home assessment came in July. I expect delivery at Nashville in October. (It's gonna be blue.)
  • ph_ph_ Posts: 1
    Ok, I've had a leaf for about 2 months now. Admittedly, I also have a gas car, which I use when I need to go out of town. That said, the Leaf is the primary vehicle being driven about twice the miles as the gas car.

    Overall, Nissan did an excellent job. I could complain about a number of things but I'll focus on the essentials instead.

    1. Plugging in at night is no problem. It takes about 15 seconds - and another 15 in the morning.

    2. Acceleration is great. The specs are above. But, from observing the Leaf's kilowatt meter, it appears Nissan restricted the acceleartion (probably for safety). Instead of immediately pegging at 80kw (the top of the meter), it gradually increases power over about 3 or 4 seconds. If you are already going about 10-20 mph, then it does give you the full 80kw, which you can really feel and observe as you shoot past other vehicles!

    3. Range is reasonable. I'd like to see better, but for greater-city area driving, it's really hard to use up the range in one day. Realistically, I'm getting between 70 and 80 miles per charge. Another meter shows about 3.7 or so miles per kw, or about 250w per mile. It's better on roads without stop-and-go, even with regen. I haven't had to use the heat or A/C much yet, so I expect the range to drop maybe 10% in winter when I need both (defrost).

    4. Comfort is reasonable. My own personal taste is that I find the front seats to have poor lumbar support. Also, the head rest protrudes too far forward, putting me into a hunched position. I solved the latter by turning the head rest around. Front leg room is great and the seat can be positioned comfortably high.

    5. Visibility is poor. This might be typical with other Nissan vehicles. The front pillars are really wide and, when turning, you really need to move your head to look around them. The back window is small, so the rear view mirror is practically useless. The mirror is also annoying low, blocking vision to the upper-right. The side mirrors are small to, so I change lanes carefully.

    6. The GPS map software works ok, but is lame compared to Google maps. Nissan should have licensed Google's software and chucked theirs. I usually use my android phone instead of the car's navigation - sorry tradeoff considering the car has a very nice screen.

    That's enough for now. I'd like to do some serious measurements and report back on kw for hill climbing at various inclines and speeds.

  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    Thank you that was a great report. Be sure and keep us updated. What part of the country are you in? and what is your charge rate from the electric utility?
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 9,403
    Yes, it's ALWAYS more interesting and informative to hear from someone who actually purchased an is using a vehicle. That's not to say that professional reviews aren't useful, but it's nice to hear about things that may come up in my day-to-day experience.
  • For those still on the fence about a LEAF in Chicagoland, the dealer I ordered mine from, McGrath Nissan in Elgin has one available for test drives NOW -- just took my first 'real world' test drive this past Saturday and it was great! My car is expected in November, after being one of the first to reserve one back in April of 2010 ! IL was moved up in the queue for the LEAF rollout due to a plan to put many more charging station around the state to make the EV a more viable option even for those with a bit longer commutes. In my own case, a charging station in my own garage will suffice as well as the LEAF will not be our only car. The word on EV's is still slow so mostly 'early adopter's' will be buying these for now -- if you haven't tried an EV you owe it to yourself to check them out -- car is so quiet and no more trips to the gas station (my rate for electricity is 6.6 cents/KwH so a little more than half the national rate -- still quite cheap compared to our current $4/gal gas average here in Chicago). They may not be for everyone but for many it could be a good choice.
  • I test drove the Leaf and really like it. Problem is all dealers (at least in Bay Area CA) want MSRP + mark ups (2K-5K), which is pushing the price upward to $40K + TTL. That's ridiculous, given that this car only good for commuting or driving around town. With that much money I can pay for a lots of gas, getting something like a Prius, which offers good MPG, and I can drive it any where and not watching the remaining wattage left to drive. :mad:
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    As long as the dealers are gouging I would buy something else. When they first came out here in San Diego the dealers were including the charging station in the MSRP price. I see a quite a few of them. Way more than the Volt, which I have only seen one. You can get a Prius under MSRP and there is a great supply of them in CA. If your electricity is as expensive as ours down here, the Leaf is no bargain. Unless you have solar and charge during the day.
  • You're fortunate as the LEAF has been available in CA for some time so at least some dealers are actually discounting it or at least just getting MSRP w/o a markup -- check this thread out on on dealers that sell at MSRP or less:

    link title
  • I've had my Leaf since May (2011) and have been running it off the PV array (5kW) I installed so I wouldn't have to buy my electricity from the power company. I purchased the Leaf as a replacement for a 97 ford Escort that gets about 22 mpg in rush hour traffic (ugh) which I drove about 50 mi RT/day plus side trips. The Leaf works out very well, I rarely use the Escort and may sell it (give it away). I originally calculated my energy savings from the deferred cost of electricity generated by the PV array. But, a few months ago I realized that my Costco bill was about $250/mo less than it had been (I live in HI where gas is expensive!). Then it dawned on me, my real deferred cost was the cost of the gasoline I was not using -- not the cost of the power company electricity I was not using. So, I have redone my calculations and shown that I will get my ROI on the solar PV array in 3 years, rather than the 8 years I had expected, by applying the $250/mo savings to the PV loan. So, in less than 30 months (now) I will have free electricity for any e-car I own (lease) AND I will be able to apply the $250/mo gas-not-used savings towards the lease of my next electric car! My cash flow has not been affected in the first 3 years and been improved thereafter! I have not compared this with the life-cycle cost of a hybrid, but I think it is still competitive over 5 to 7 years.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    Which Island? We just sold our place near Hilo. Electricity was horribly high. Will your electric company let you store up energy? Or are you off the grid? I can see where your setup would be great. Mahalo for sharing.
  • Electricity from the Leaf can be used to enable refrigerators, air conditioners, washing machines, televisions, and others. This inspired the development of post-tsunami and earthquake that hit Japan in March 2011. At that time Japan experienced electrical supply disruptions. From there, the Nissan engineers develop V2H.

    for more article : Speed Encounter

    Warm Regards,

  • girlcarbuildergirlcarbuilder Baton Rouge, LAPosts: 221
    Thanks for the wonderful review. The Leaf has been on our radar since it was slated to come out. We bought a couple of Toyota Yaris's hatchbacks in 09 and 10 with standard tranny's. So far 30k miles each and just regular maintenance. As it should be on a Toyota.

    I am waiting on the Leaf to hear the good bad and ugly in maintenance, such as battery replacements or other horrible expensive computer modules having to be replaced. Those items that they force even people like me with experience to have to return to dirty dealer for service. If the Leaf can turn out 200K miles without such expenses, then it may be justifiable in long run. I shudder to hear what they want to replace the batteries, controller or whatever else. It would not surprise me either if the circuit boards are potted making it impossible to repair. Yup, I even have electronics under the belt.

    Keep the info coming, I just put this car forum on my watch list. Getting older and the trips are getting shorter. So the gas Yaris's will soon be open road units and the Leaf around town when purchased.

    May I suggest a wide angle mirror from JC Whitney for rear blind spots? I bought the smaller ones for the Yaris's which have terrible blind spots in rear and pulled the headrests out to improve view. They clamp over the OEM mirror, but have no night time feature. The mirror works fine as long as no one is in the back seat. 99% of the time that is the case anyway. If someone hits the brights in the back, I aim the mirror down.

  • Agreed, the issue of how to charge the battery is very important, as is the total range available. Personally, I feel that the current state of the art is lacking when it comes to electric cars, although kudos to Nissan for offering an all-electric car at the price it does. I also feel that a hybrid gas/electric car is currently probably better at the present time than risking it all on an all-electric vehicle. I wanted to FYI an interesting fact that I came across re recharging lithium batteries. Northwestern University in Evanston, IL recently came out with a news release where they appear to have figured out a way to recharge a lithium battery, of ANY size, in EIGHT MINUTES. Yes, you read that right, EIGHT MINUTES. This means that consumers won't have to install their own recharging stations, they can just go to a gas station that has a recharging station and recharge in eight minutes. How long does it take to fill up a tank of gas? Five minutes? Ten? I hate to say it, but it seems as though the "early adopters", although an incredibly important factor in the dissemination of new technologies, may have jumped into the fray too soon. The range and recharging factors will be solved in the near future, and it will be as easy and quick as filling up a tank of gas. FYI for the discussion related to recharging times, etc. John V. Karavitis
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    A news reporter would like to talk with hybrid car owners in Northern California. If you fit the description, please contact [email protected] by Wednesday, April 25, 2012.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Posts: 5,092
    If you own a Chevy Volt or Nissan Leaf, a reporter would like to talk with you. Email [email protected] by Monday, May 14, 2012.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    I parked next to a guy in a Leaf this morning. He was more than willing to tell me about the car. He likes it, BUT. There are still no 440v charging stations that the Feds gave SDG&E millions to install. The private ones have some issues. It seems there are a lot of EV rentals running around San Diego. Several times he has been plugged into the 220V charging stations in one of the parking garages, only to come back and find his vehicle unplugged and a rental plugged in. It seems the range is marginal going from where we are 30+ miles to downtown SD and home. It takes about 8 bars to get back up the long grade to our little village. From sea level to 2000 ft. Now to the best part. He has the 220V charger and SDG&E installed a separate meter. If he charges at night the rates are very low. If he charges during the day they are higher than the normal top tier rate for homeowners. He has calculated his cost to date and if he was driving a 30 MPG vehicle gas would have to be 68 cents per gallon to match what he is paying for electricity charging at night.

    He thought about waiting until they get more range. But did not want to lose out on the $7500 from the Feds and the $5000 from CA. With tax and license out the door it cost him right at $24k.
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