I will show my naiveté by needing to confirm that numbers you are quoting:
There are two Hendricks Honda stores -- one in VA and one in NC. VA sold 221 units in June while NC sold 352. 221 isn't that strong but perhaps in that area it's HUGE. 352 on the other hand is strong. Hendricks NC is ranked 18th in volume while VA is a dismal 139.
are for total Honda units sold per month and not, total Odyssey units sold per month. Thanks.
My husband and I are currently negotiating prices in the Milwaukee area for the EXL with RES + NAV. So far, we've gotten quotes from local dealers for the following.
We wouldn't go with the first one because they didn't even bother to see if we'd quality for the 2.9, they just came back with 3.9 because my credit score was 6 points shy of qualifying (whatever). Last night the dealership we were at did a little more work and got us the 2.9 but the price was still a bit high for us. We got a cash only quote via email from a third dealership and they said it would be $1000 more if we financed. So, we're trying to get dealer number two to come down to the 31,500 with the financing.
Is this a reasonable deal? Are we being unreasonable in trying to get them to come down to 31,500. The MSRP at the all dealerships around here is 36,445. Would we be better off waiting until the end of the month to try and negotiate?
I have regularly been quoted 31,193 for an EXL R&N, WITH the cheap financing offer. Look for an earlier post from me where I quoted that from a dealer email.
Last fall I was looking at an 07 new R&N and at that time the quote was 30,590...given the sucky market for big cars, I'd fight for that price now!
Lets keep it this way. If I get it for 31,500 with 0.9/36M or 2.9/60M here in Minneapolis, you please come here for purchase. If you can find it there, I will come down there. Does it sounds good? I am talking OTD price with the base price of 29000 (Including destination fee). The current lowest quote is 29584 for EX-L RES&NAVI. Let us see how this goes.
I doubt I'll find anyplace that will give me a base price of 29K. They were hemming and hawing at 31K and we got that down from the 33K they told us was their invoice price.
My husband finally was able to negotiate 2.9/60 months, 1000 down, and a price of 31,000 - before tax, title, etc. I can post more specifics after we buy it, but we flanked all the Honda dealers in the area with emails and they were all coming back in the neighborhood of 32K We feel comfortable with the 31K given the MSRP on the vehicle is 36,445 in our area. Its about 15% lower than sticker.
Every quote I have received the dealers have told me that the low interest rate financing is not available at this price. Is this true or are they just jerking me around? I have been quoted $27,981 plus tags, title and tax. Having to get my own financing at CapitalOne means I am paying an additional $2k in finance charges. Help please. :sick:
$33K is their invoice price. However, there is $2000.00 in dealer cash AND the low rate APR option. Yes it is dealer cash, not a consumer rebate but there is no way what so ever they shouldn't pass it on to you. Offer them $31K plus TT&L AND the low rate option. If they dont give it to WALK! Don't pay $2000.00 more then should!
To all of you (including me) waiting to hear on the July incentives before giving the "buy" order, Honda just announced their sales figures for June.
For June, Odyssey sales were off 8.6% from June of last year: 15,516 units in '07 versus 12,602 for '08. YTD Odyssey sales are off 9.1% from 80,338 in '07 to 72,589 in '08. (All percentages reflect the daily selling rate as calculated with 24 days for June 2008, versus 27 for 2007. Year to date, the daily selling rate is calculated with 153 days for 2008, versus 154 for 2007.)
By comparison, in May, monthly sales were off 18.0% compared to '07.
Therefore, to some extent, it appears, all other things being equal, that the change in incentives from May to June (June included the special financing on top the the $2000) may have lessened the bleeding for Honda. Based these sales figures, I am not expecting to see any increase in the incentives. Had sales been off in June as much as they had in May, I might have expected additional incentives.
I still plan on waiting, because, based on the sales figures, I don't think the incentives will be reduced. If you think part of the incentives will be disappearing on July 7th, now is the time to negotiate those deals. Otherwise, sit on the fence, like me and take a chance. Time will tell!
I am in the market for a EX-L with Nav & RES. I am looking to buy in NJ/PA and would appreciate help if anyone has done a deal or are in the final stages. Would appreciate if folks could tell about the lowest OTD as well as dealerships to look for.
I was told by one of the dealer that I may get more discount on the vehicle after July 7th but he doubt about the financing. Honda may not give more discount and lower (0.9 or 2.9) financing after July 7th. Any thoughts?
Just wanted to get a feel of the dealers in NJ area as I have just entered the market for EX-L with Nav and Res. I hope I could get some pointers from your experience. Thanks!!
Well, my husband didn't want to wait until after the holiday so we bought it last night. Final price paid was 30,604 (incl dest) with 2.9 APR for 60 months.
I still plan on waiting, because, based on the sales figures, I don't think the incentives will be reduced.
benf, personally, I think you are wise for waiting.... We bought our Touring a couple months ago. Negotiated a gr8 deal... based on current incentives. In our case, we were also dealing with a gas hog SUV trade-in that was depreciating by the second, so we went ahead & pulled the trigger.
If we would have had a reasonable trade, and since we paid cash, I would have chosen to wait until Q4 of this year to buy. I don't see '08 minivan sales taking off anytime soon, as they are not exactly gas-mizers. Can you imagine what the '08 inentives would become if they were to introduce a hybrid Ody in '09???? :surprise:
Here is the skinny on what I think is going on....
1. Real dealer cost based on info thus far appear to be LX 19k, EX 22k, EX-L 26k - check Boch Honda per previous posts 2. 09 model will arrive in next 4-6 weeks. 3. Auto sales down big and even bigger for trucks, suvs, AND MINIVANS. 4. More cars being delivered every week to the dealers. 5. A re-deisgn of Ody expected for 2010 model (available next year)
All this tells me there is NO need to rush to the dealership. Only think about buying if the deal is too good to pass up. Even then, the incentives will only get better for minivans, yes even for Ody.
I completely agree Chud... I suppose the only thing that might motivate one to pull the trigger sooner (as in my case) is if the market for the current vehicle you're driving / trading-in / selling has vanished, resulting in a lower value. We took our SUV to Carmax, and while they had nothing but praise for the vehicle, they said due to market conditions, their offer was admittedly low.
Another point I recall from another mfr (GM?, Ford?), is that while incentives are being offered on current models, the plans are to increase base prices on next years models due to increased cost of materials.
Following the Wisconsin pricing discussion, I have been trying to deal w/ Madison/Janesville area for past week. I have following quotes for EX-L w/RES:
29,304 + TTL & service for total of 31,108.95 29,450 + TTL no fees--no OTD price given
I am not clear on whether or not the best deals listed here include TTL. Is this a good deal or are people getting OTD prices of 29K and 30K?
Just received this email below from a local (Houston) dealer... looks like the better incentives have begun!
Buy any new Honda from John Eagle Honda and declare your independence from the gas pump – with 250 gallons of gas, ON US! Do the math, a 36mpg 2008 Honda Civic plus 250 gallons = 9,000 miles. That’s almost a year of gas!
0% financing is available on 2008 Pilots, Elements, Ridgelines, Odyssey, S2000 and Accord Sedan’s.
1.9% financing is available on 2008 Civic Sedans!
These are just a few of the incredible specials available this weekend at John Eagle Honda. There has never been a better time to get a new Honda and there has never been a better place than John Eagle Honda to do it!
Agreed that prices will drop as the 08's are cleared out for the 09's. However, Honda can't be that naive and not adjust production to meet demand! I am sure Ody and other larger vehicle production will have decrease for the tail end of 08's and especially for 09.
As for the model year change, it should be 2011 introduced in 2010 but who knows. The 08 was a mid model change. Hey... with the low sales of Ody's maybe they will delay it further or discontinue it. Honda's done that with the Prelude, CRX and even the Civic hatchback in the past.
I an in NW FL and pricing a Touring from Tallahassee, Panama City, and Dallas (on vacation in a couple days). I have a quote from Freeman in Dallas for 37,000OTD with one of their enhancement packages. I saw the central FL OTD price of 36,500 or so. Am I in the ballpark? I am ready to purchase around the 8 Jul release of current incentives...roll the ball?
Well, I couldn't wait any longer so I pulled the trigger.
The prices in Denver appeared to be pretty tight. Most dealers wouldn't budge on their initial quotes. Of those that did budge, a couple wouldn't provide the 0.9% financing. One dealer even said the the prices that I was quoted from other dealers was insane and that they couldn't compete. That narrowed the field to 2 dealers. Both dealers pretty much offered the same price but one was 30 miles closer, so I went with them. The dealer also threw in the clear plate option for free. Below is the breakdown from the purchase agreement. The selling price on the agreement was lowered so that the clear plate price could be listed. I am not sure why the dealer did this. Maybe they get a kickback for the clear plate.
I think this is a pretty fair price. It doesn't appear to be as good as what some of you are getting in other parts of the country. I have a pretty low tax rate though, so that helped.
Please let us know the new incentives as soon as you know that. Just waiting for that. 32K OTD is the lowest quote I received for EX-L RES&NAVI with 0.9 financing.
It is amazing how many people want to blame somebody else for their own incompetence. This customer called in about an Odyssey EXL not an EXLRN. When he mentioned his price from Coleman Honda was $28384 (WHICH IS $450 higher than invoice less the $2000 dealer cash that was available) we agreed that would be able to be beat by $200!
When the customer walked into the dealership and said he was here for the EXLRN and why wouldn't we want to honor the price. Come on guys....your own research here on Edmunds says you can not buy the car for $28184, yet you want to blame the dealership for your confusion!
Very simple...DO YOUR RESEARCH!!!!!!!!!!! And you won't feel the need to disclose to the world your own inability to understand simple numbers!
Could someone please tell me how long does it take to receive the "Title" on your vehicle? I bought my van in mid May in Washington, and I haven't received the title yet. I got the plates 3 weeks ago but still not title. Do I have to do something else, like fill out an application form?
Here is the problem. It is because this Eric failed to email the customer detailed final quote in B&W, now blame the customer was in confusion. Let the other buyers judge whether trick or not.
.... i had asked Erick to send me in an email, the prices for each item that they would charge to drive the car out of the Lot. Erick always refused to provide me with something in an email. ....
New to the site. Should I expect to get the $2000 dealer cash as well as the 2.9% finance rate? Also, is $24,700 before tax and plates a fair number for an EX?
I am about to begin shopping for an EX-L in the New Orleans area. Does anyone have any recent experience with prices and at which dealerships in this area? I also travel to Baton Rouge and Alexandria, LA and Conway, AR often and could purchase there if the price was better. Any recommendations or experience to share?
Best quote we got is 27K+TTL after three days of rather uncomfortable negotiations. Only one dealer threw in 26.8K+TTL but it was for a demo unit. Maybe there are better deals out there but we are out of time and patience. Good luck boys and girls. We have learned a lot from the here and we have easily saved a few hundred dollars. Thank you all.
All good points and more relevant if you are only considering Ody. As for me, these cars are mostly about the same. I would be fine with a toyota, mazda, nissan, or dodge. (btw, Mazda5 is more popular now days for its 4cyl engine and milage.)
I just don't see the point of being bullied by dealers or Honda for that matter.
And if you have dealt with Honda, you will quickly find out that Honda is no different from any other car company. Their short sighted, sales driven business has no regard for its customer after the sale. Take it from me and countless others who have direct experience and posted their dissappointment on this and other sites.
One other point I would like to make on this forum is this.... It is widely accepted they often decieve and in some cases they out right lie and because of this everyone is very cautious and guarded initially when dealing with car salesman. But most people quickly dismiss their common sense and believe anything and everything they are told by these same salesman about incentives, deals, fees, fair values, trade-in, etc..... Just remember who you are dealing with and if you have time read the piece done by edmunds and their investigative reporter.
I am not sure of the Costco Leasing, but the Costco buying program was $300 over invoice in San Diego. Not even close to the deal I received in the end. I wouldn't put too much faith in the program with the current incentives and markdowns going on.
Dealers are pretty tricky. One says one thing and another something else. Do no take the first offer you receive. Be careful of additional fees such as prep and high doc fees of $400.00 We went to many dealers in ny and nj. DCH honda in old bridge were way overpriced as were freehold. Open road is hit or miss. We found a nice salesman there but the manager was not very nice. Therefore we did not purchase there. We were planning on purchasing this weekend but decided to wait to see the incentives after july 7,... they have to get better. Gas prices are NOT going down. If you have any questions about the dealers send me a email to my carspace account. Good luck with your search. Be patient and DO NOT TOLERATE rude, sarcastic and pressure laid salesmen!!!
For all customers looking to do business with Ourisman Honda in Laurel, MD: ========================================================
I strongly advise you to stay away from this dealership. They are dishonest crooks. The dealer has seen my notice on this board. Since this forum is for customers like you and me who are in the market to buy a car, the dealership is now trying to discredit me by stating that i am incompetent and did not do my research. I did a very thorough research. The dealer went back on his word!!!!!
The managment running this dealership are a bunch of crooks. The tactics they used are dispicable. I would sincerely advise anyone who is thinking of buying a Honda car from this dealership to stay away from this dealership. You are better off going to another Honda dealership.
In my opinion, there is no value in using inflammatory language. Simply state the facts and allow your audience to decide if the dealership is run by a "bunch of crooks".
I would hold a professional dealership to an even higher standard regarding discourse on a public forum. Ourisman Honda's Sales Manager's decision to call you 'incompetent' on a public forum says so much more to me about their dealership than any failed deal between two parties. I have to wonder if the GM is aware of the image being portrayed by this employee's comments.
Ourisman could have come across as extremely professional had they simply stated the facts leading to the misunderstanding. I have no doubt that Ourisman felt they had been wronged by rohitk's statements. Misunderstandings happen at dealerships everyday. I would expect more from my dealership than a response that included name calling.
Having said that, individuals should feel free to rise above the fray and enter into calm discussion as well. Calling a dealership "cheats" does nothing to convince me of your argument. Layout the facts, let the reader decide.
Are the new incentives out? I was just told by DFW area dealer that the incentive went to 2500 but did not include a financing option with it...anyone else?
I am surprised a dealer would behave in such a manner, but not a potential client. It may come as a surprise to many people, but the dealerships are in business to make money. I believe competition has forced shrinking margins on the dealers and the economy has lowered their volume.... which equals, sadly, is that car dealers are now hiring their sales staff by the pound, not on ability or ethics. As for the angered potential customers ... move on ... there are plenty of other dealers to work with and life is too short to be angry. Any who ... just for a laugh ... I was trying to purchase a car from Bloomfield Honda in the Detoilet (Detroit) suburbs. I couldn't get the salesman to follow through on returning calls or emails ... until finally he sent me an email as follows:
What do you possibly need of my time? You've test drove the car 3 times. You told me your wife would make the decision and I don't have time for you anymore ...
I responded to him by stating a few facts: I know we all look the same, but A. I visited your dealership on a Saturday when you were too busy ... which I am happy for you .... B. I explained to you I don't feel test driving a minivan is necessary. After all, this isn't a Ferrari. :shades: C. I am not married (actually happily divorced :op ) ... and knowing the sad state of the economy in Detroit I apologize for interrupting your day ...
Like I said before ... always negotiate and/or leave the dealership with a smile ... it doesn't cost anything....
.... and no, I still haven't picked up a van yet. I think I intimidate the dealers by axing "so ... what is the price" :Op
Comments
Base price : $27,130.00
processing: $399.00
freight:$635.00
Less : $300 coupon
tax: 7%NJ state tax - 1950
plus .12%Va county tax - 36
tags: NJ State tag fee - 169
Total was approx 30,000/-
regards
Brainage2
There are two Hendricks Honda stores -- one in VA and one in NC. VA sold 221 units in June while NC sold 352. 221 isn't that strong but perhaps in that area it's HUGE. 352 on the other hand is strong. Hendricks NC is ranked 18th in volume while VA is a dismal 139.
are for total Honda units sold per month and not, total Odyssey units sold per month. Thanks.
32,500 @ 3.9% Financing
33,000 @ 2.9%
31,500 cash only.
We wouldn't go with the first one because they didn't even bother to see if we'd quality for the 2.9, they just came back with 3.9 because my credit score was 6 points shy of qualifying (whatever). Last night the dealership we were at did a little more work and got us the 2.9 but the price was still a bit high for us. We got a cash only quote via email from a third dealership and they said it would be $1000 more if we financed. So, we're trying to get dealer number two to come down to the 31,500 with the financing.
Is this a reasonable deal? Are we being unreasonable in trying to get them to come down to 31,500. The MSRP at the all dealerships around here is 36,445. Would we be better off waiting until the end of the month to try and negotiate?
Any suggestions would be wonderful!!!
Thank you.
Last fall I was looking at an 07 new R&N and at that time the quote was 30,590...given the sucky market for big cars, I'd fight for that price now!
My husband finally was able to negotiate 2.9/60 months, 1000 down, and a price of 31,000 - before tax, title, etc. I can post more specifics after we buy it, but we flanked all the Honda dealers in the area with emails and they were all coming back in the neighborhood of 32K We feel comfortable with the 31K given the MSRP on the vehicle is 36,445 in our area. Its about 15% lower than sticker.
For June, Odyssey sales were off 8.6% from June of last year: 15,516 units in '07 versus 12,602 for '08. YTD Odyssey sales are off 9.1% from 80,338 in '07 to 72,589 in '08. (All percentages reflect the daily selling rate as calculated with 24 days for June 2008, versus 27 for 2007. Year to date, the daily selling rate is calculated with 153 days for 2008, versus 154 for 2007.)
By comparison, in May, monthly sales were off 18.0% compared to '07.
Therefore, to some extent, it appears, all other things being equal, that the change in incentives from May to June (June included the special financing on top the the $2000) may have lessened the bleeding for Honda. Based these sales figures, I am not expecting to see any increase in the incentives. Had sales been off in June as much as they had in May, I might have expected additional incentives.
I still plan on waiting, because, based on the sales figures, I don't think the incentives will be reduced. If you think part of the incentives will be disappearing on July 7th, now is the time to negotiate those deals. Otherwise, sit on the fence, like me and take a chance. Time will tell!
I am not claiming to have insider information. I won't know incentive until 07/08.
Happy shopping.
Could you give a break down of the amount you paid. Thanks.
Is $29800 a good enough price to bite? The special financing is applicable too.
Should I continue to bargain? how much should I take off?
Thanks for any suggestions!
benf, personally, I think you are wise for waiting.... We bought our Touring a couple months ago. Negotiated a gr8 deal... based on current incentives. In our case, we were also dealing with a gas hog SUV trade-in that was depreciating by the second, so we went ahead & pulled the trigger.
If we would have had a reasonable trade, and since we paid cash, I would have chosen to wait until Q4 of this year to buy. I don't see '08 minivan sales taking off anytime soon, as they are not exactly gas-mizers. Can you imagine what the '08 inentives would become if they were to introduce a hybrid Ody in '09???? :surprise:
My wife has been driving her Odyssey since 2005 and she LOVES it! I'm sure you will too.
1. Real dealer cost based on info thus far appear to be
LX 19k, EX 22k, EX-L 26k - check Boch Honda per previous posts
2. 09 model will arrive in next 4-6 weeks.
3. Auto sales down big and even bigger for trucks, suvs, AND MINIVANS.
4. More cars being delivered every week to the dealers.
5. A re-deisgn of Ody expected for 2010 model (available next year)
All this tells me there is NO need to rush to the dealership.
Only think about buying if the deal is too good to pass up.
Even then, the incentives will only get better for minivans, yes even for Ody.
Share your thought.
Another point I recall from another mfr (GM?, Ford?), is that while incentives are being offered on current models, the plans are to increase base prices on next years models due to increased cost of materials.
29,304 + TTL & service for total of 31,108.95
29,450 + TTL no fees--no OTD price given
I am not clear on whether or not the best deals listed here include TTL. Is this a good deal or are people getting OTD prices of 29K and 30K?
Advice welcome.
Buy any new Honda from John Eagle Honda and declare your independence from the gas pump – with 250 gallons of gas, ON US! Do the math, a 36mpg 2008 Honda Civic plus 250 gallons = 9,000 miles. That’s almost a year of gas!
0% financing is available on 2008 Pilots, Elements, Ridgelines, Odyssey, S2000 and Accord Sedan’s.
1.9% financing is available on 2008 Civic Sedans!
These are just a few of the incredible specials available this weekend at John Eagle Honda. There has never been a better time to get a new Honda and there has never been a better place than John Eagle Honda to do it!
As for the model year change, it should be 2011 introduced in 2010 but who knows. The 08 was a mid model change. Hey... with the low sales of Ody's maybe they will delay it further or discontinue it. Honda's done that with the Prelude, CRX and even the Civic hatchback in the past.
Touring or EXL w/NAV and DVD
The prices in Denver appeared to be pretty tight. Most dealers wouldn't budge on their initial quotes. Of those that did budge, a couple wouldn't provide the 0.9% financing. One dealer even said the the prices that I was quoted from other dealers was insane and that they couldn't compete. That narrowed the field to 2 dealers. Both dealers pretty much offered the same price but one was 30 miles closer, so I went with them. The dealer also threw in the clear plate option for free. Below is the breakdown from the purchase agreement. The selling price on the agreement was lowered so that the clear plate price could be listed. I am not sure why the dealer did this. Maybe they get a kickback for the clear plate.
Model: 2008 EX-L RES/NAV (Slate Green)
Base: 29,766
Dest: 635
Clear Plate: 399
Dealer/Doc fee: 399
Tax(5.1%): 1591.15
Title/License: 27.20
OTD: 32817.35 with 0.9% financing.
I think this is a pretty fair price. It doesn't appear to be as good as what some of you are getting in other parts of the country. I have a pretty low tax rate though, so that helped.
Good luck to everyone buying soon.
When he mentioned his price from Coleman Honda was $28384 (WHICH IS $450 higher than invoice less the $2000 dealer cash that was available) we agreed that would be able to be beat by $200!
When the customer walked into the dealership and said he was here for the EXLRN and why wouldn't we want to honor the price. Come on guys....your own research here on Edmunds says you can not buy the car for $28184, yet you want to blame the dealership for your confusion!
Very simple...DO YOUR RESEARCH!!!!!!!!!!! And you won't feel the need to disclose to the world your own inability to understand simple numbers!
Thx
.... i had asked Erick to send me in an email, the prices for each item that they would charge to drive the car out of the Lot. Erick always refused to provide me with something in an email. ....
Thanks, GHR
As for me, these cars are mostly about the same. I would be fine with a toyota, mazda, nissan, or dodge. (btw, Mazda5 is more popular now days for its 4cyl engine and milage.)
I just don't see the point of being bullied by dealers or Honda for that matter.
And if you have dealt with Honda, you will quickly find out that Honda is no different from any other car company. Their short sighted, sales driven business has no regard for its customer after the sale. Take it from me and countless others who have direct experience and posted their dissappointment on this and other sites.
One other point I would like to make on this forum is this....
It is widely accepted they often decieve and in some cases they out right lie and because of this everyone is very cautious and guarded initially when dealing with car salesman. But most people quickly dismiss their common sense and believe anything and everything they are told by these same salesman about incentives, deals, fees, fair values, trade-in, etc.....
Just remember who you are dealing with and if you have time read the piece done by edmunds and their investigative reporter.
my 2 cents....
========================================================
I strongly advise you to stay away from this dealership. They are dishonest crooks. The dealer has seen my notice on this board. Since this forum is for customers like you and me who are in the market to buy a car, the dealership is now trying to discredit me by stating that i am incompetent and did not do my research. I did a very thorough research. The dealer went back on his word!!!!!
The managment running this dealership are a bunch of crooks. The tactics they used are dispicable. I would sincerely advise anyone who is thinking of buying a Honda car from this dealership to stay away from this dealership. You are better off going to another Honda dealership.
Sincerely,
apollo
I would hold a professional dealership to an even higher standard regarding discourse on a public forum. Ourisman Honda's Sales Manager's decision to call you 'incompetent' on a public forum says so much more to me about their dealership than any failed deal between two parties. I have to wonder if the GM is aware of the image being portrayed by this employee's comments.
Ourisman could have come across as extremely professional had they simply stated the facts leading to the misunderstanding. I have no doubt that Ourisman felt they had been wronged by rohitk's statements. Misunderstandings happen at dealerships everyday. I would expect more from my dealership than a response that included name calling.
Having said that, individuals should feel free to rise above the fray and enter into calm discussion as well. Calling a dealership "cheats" does nothing to convince me of your argument. Layout the facts, let the reader decide.
What do you possibly need of my time? You've test drove the car 3 times. You told me your wife would make the decision and I don't have time for you anymore ...
I responded to him by stating a few facts: I know we all look the same, but A. I visited your dealership on a Saturday when you were too busy ... which I am happy for you .... B. I explained to you I don't feel test driving a minivan is necessary. After all, this isn't a Ferrari. :shades: C. I am not married (actually happily divorced :op ) ... and knowing the sad state of the economy in Detroit I apologize for interrupting your day ...
Like I said before ... always negotiate and/or leave the dealership with a smile ... it doesn't cost anything....
.... and no, I still haven't picked up a van yet. I think I intimidate the dealers by axing "so ... what is the price" :Op