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Comments
Fleet and rental managers would lose their jobs if their purchases did not provide income for the owners/stockholders. The Grand Caravan SE is apparently THE most profitable minivan for fleet and renting purposes. DaimlerChrysler minivans cost the LEAST to purchase and own.
When I worked corporate, fleet operations were under my management. We turned about 700 vehicles a year and were buying Luminas for about $2,000 less than any individual could buy them and they had an extended service contract. I'm sure these rental companies are doing as good or better considering the volumes some are buying. There's a reason Ford, GM, and maybe even Dodge are trying to cut their fleet sales: Very little profit and it has a negative effect on residual values.
Asking price/Market price....it's what the market will bare. I'm certain you got your Ody for $2000 below invoice right? while everyone else in O5 was at Sticker!!
I went over the first 600 vehicles in the prefered Dodge CG all the way down to 16K(asking) 331SE and 279SXT so they are in the majority but not by much.
I listed them from lowest price to highest price, and by 90% or greater, the first 20 pages were all SE models...Fleet.
Hey! Can I play too or is this just the dennisctc/socalawd show?
I've no idea how well socalawd did, but we got our EX-L at a little more than $2k under MSRP back in Feb. of '05.
I forgot: what are you guys trying to prove now????
Nope don't know anyone who paid sticker on a EX after about Jan of 2005. I got almost 3K off! Cars Direct was 1800 off at the time. Noone should ever pay more than the carsdirect price. Everyone I've talked gave advice to(8 people)that have come in with the carsdirect price have had it matched or beat it instantly.
Hey! Can I play too or is this just the dennisctc/socalawd show?
Play on rorr!
I forgot: what are you guys trying to prove now????
He's trying to prove that caravans are mostly fleet vehicles! I think he's doing a great job! :shades:
The seat back is probably adjustable it is on my Ody. The thing I like least about the Ody 3rd row is the width. I sat back there with my boy and his friend so I could watch The Incredibles on the way to San Diego. I hear there's nowhere to put your feet under the stow and go which also makes it more uncomfortable for tall people. Probably not a problem for children.
$1,300 below sticker...NOT sticker.
Did you see how well we stood up for the DCX owners!? We figured you passed out from being startled by our defense of Dodge!
I read a few. But I've been off the computer for awhile because my family was in town and didn't read to many of the past ones. But thanks.
I don't have a problem with even leg room in the middle or rear seats. My wife and I are both small. She is only 5'1" and I am only 5'6". Leg room is no problem to us. Not sure if third row bench seat back leans or not. I'll have to look the next time I get in it. I know I didn't much like sitting strait up like I did. Still wouldn't like it without the arm rest, even if it does.
Waitaminute - I thought dennis was DEFENDING the DGC? No wonder I was confused..... :confuse:
The 1986 Caravan had 170,000 miles on it with NO problems when they sold it to a friend.
They are just one of the NUMEROUS repeat buyers of Caravan/Voyager/Grand Caravan/T&C owners. Many people now drive their 3rd, 4th, or 5th Chrysler minivan because of the reliability and comfort of DC minivans.
I don't personally know anyone who has purchased their 2nd Honda Odyssey. :shades:
I do, my great aunt - 2000 Odyssey EX, 2005 Odyssey EX.
I thought the 60/40 split 3rd row seats of the DaimlerChrysler minivans also reclined. Now I need to go look at them again.
I think the Odyssey has THE best folding mechanism for the 3rd row "fold-into-the-floor" seating although the Sienna and DC minivans fold just as easily. I also like the padded armrest of the 2nd row seats in the Odyssey that can be used as seating for an 8th person.
The Odyssey antenna in the rear side window does NOT work as well for radio reception as the old fashioned mast antenna of other minivans.
Why can't each manufacturer just copy the best ideas from their competitors? :confuse:
Sadly, she got her car serviced a couple weeks ago, and a tech guy hit her car against a yellow pylon in the lot. It is at the body shop right now, and she is in a CR-V LX at the moment. Needless to say, she wasn't exactly happy about the incident.
There are also armrests built into the out board 2nd Row seats on both sides of the "chair" (four total for row 2), not just the folded 8th seat. No third rows have an armrest, unfortunately.
This is a bit of a thin thread, but I was trying to get it going again! Where is everyone!?
We had a rental Pontiac Grand Prix with only 600 miles on it. Definitely not minivan spacious! Not even particularly spacious for a mid size sedan. Back seat headroom was atrocious. My wife who sat in back a few times actually bumped her head on the roof when we went over a few large bumps, and she is not particularly tall, only 5'4". Entry and exit is also a problem with the steeply raked windshield, raked rear window and low roof. The GP has about the fattest A pillars I have ever encountered as well.
A lot of boy racer styling inside, all red lit instruments with about the biggest oversize speedometer I have ever seen.
This was a base model with no steering wheel mounted controls. I can't believe GM is still hanging on to that awful stalk mounted cruise control!
It sure made my wife wish for her 1996 Caravan, or even my 2000 Duratech equipped Taurus, both of which are much more comfortable and user friendly,
To top it off I didn't notice that the GP was all that exciting to drive, either. Plenty of low end torque, but seemed to run out of horses at about 55-60 mph, and the steering seemed a bit numb as well, and those fat spots on the steering wheel at 10 and 2 were not comfortable to me at all.
I am not a big fan of black interiors and with the base GP the only thing not black is a bit of brushed aluminum on the steering wheel spokes and around the floor shifter. The interior was boldly styled, but very very black on the version I had.
The armrests on the front seats of the Honda were so thin, they hardly seemed worth it. More like a pinky finger rest, to me. I was surprised, after noting the quality of their seats, that the armrests were so dinky.
Absolutely the most flexible, fun and practical car I can imagine. Reliable, too.
The flat floor (no center console) is a beautiful feature. Sometimes the Golden Retriever uses that space as her seat. Other times, it's used to pile up lumber all the way to the front of the van. It gives a sense of spaciousness to the car. It's even the key to comfortable front seat sex! 8^o
Combine that with the short wheelbase (it's shorter than a camry) and you can parallel park this wonder car with the best of them.
I test drove a 2006 oddysey. It's bigger, overpadded, overpowered and doesn't have a feature level that appeals to me (i.e. no sport/utility trim package). Compared to my caravan, it seems like a fat dowager.
In 3 years I'll give my beloved car to my teenaged son and head straight to the dodge dealer to buy another one.
Thank you, Dodge.
N
The same dealership's best price for a 2006 Odyssey was about $ 700 under MSRP in August 2005 (Price quoted on a 2006 when it would arrive after $ 500 deposit to get on the waiting list).
The dealership NEVER did charge above MSRP in 1999 when the 1999 Odyssey had a 5 month waiting list and dealers in some areas were adding $ 5,000 to $ 10,000 above MSRP for the 1999 Odyssey.
I would like the Caravan IF the 2nd row seats would slide forward and back as they do on the Stow 'N Go GC and T&C while still retaining the traditional rear seating that will slide forward to accomodate more cargo if necessary...or even the 50/50 split 3rd row seats where either half is so easily removed for more cargo space.
I prefer the seating of my 2002 T&C LX with 2nd row bucket seats and 50/50 split 3rd row to the 2005/06 Stow 'N Go. The 5 middle and rear seating places are more comfortable on the pre-Stow 'N Go DC minivans.
I can not understand why the biased written portion in both CR and Edmunds when they praise the Odyssey while overlooking its shortcomings and badmouth DC minivans while ignoring the features that are superior.
I gave truedelta information on my van a few times. Got tired of it because they didn't give me the info they said they would.
I can not understand why the biased written portion in both CR and Edmunds when they praise the Odyssey while overlooking its shortcomings and badmouth DC minivans while ignoring the features that are superior.
Well don't you think the best way for true delta to get ahead is by going after CR. It's exactly what I would do!! :P I would love it if CR provided numbers in study and problems with better discription(or any discription) and make all data available. I don't think truedelta will do this ethier. I thought you all didn't care what rags said about cars?? :confuse: Seems that if they loved the DCX van you'd be it's #1 fan!!
Fleet owners are customers, too. In fact because they are interested in stretching fleet funding dollars they are lacking the emotional interest displayed by the general public. The Caravan in particular has remained a popular vehicle, especially for service fleets. Compared to vehicles from other manufacturers they offer the right combination of low purchase price, reasonable maintenance and insurance cost, and equally reasonable return at end of term.
Included below are figures from American Fleet. As you will see Chrysler mini-vans are not "mostly" sold to fleets, but remain in large part vehicles that average people purchase. In fact, mini-vans from GM and Ford are sold to fleets in much higher percentages.
Regards,
Dusty
http://www.fleet-central.com/af/t_pop_pdf.cfm?action=stat&link=http://www.fleet-- - central.com/af/stats2005/trucks_web.pdf
http://www.fleet-central.com/af/t_pop_pdf.cfm?action=stat&link=http://www.fleet-- - central.com/af/stats2005/ltvsuvfr.pdf
Well the numbers don't lie. Over 30% are flett thats quite allot. I keep hearing how huge the sales differance is for the DCX vans compared to Honda. But when it comes down to going into the dealership and real people putting down the money. Even with the price premium and the lack of a SWB van. Honda seems to be doing fine! Instead of 2.5 to 1 it's more like 1.6 to 1.
Fleet owners are customers, too. In fact because they are interested in stretching fleet funding dollars they are lacking the emotional interest displayed by the general public. The Caravan in particular has remained a popular vehicle, especially for service fleets. Compared to vehicles from other manufacturers they offer the right combination of low purchase price, reasonable maintenance and insurance cost, and equally reasonable return at end of term.
Oh there is no doubt that the Caravan is inexpensive! If I owned a company I would use them too. But for my family the Honda was the best choice. I wonder what the fleet owners wife's drive.
Luckily, the adults that I transport are small, elderly women, and never more than two back there at a time, so with one stow n go seat flat, the third seat is not so bad. I was shocked at the miniscule legroom in all of vans for the 3rd seats. I am 5'4", and I think I would be very cramped.
I've just been seeing ads for bigger, conversion vans (new) in my area for about $25K. I'm wondering now why I didn't go look at those. Never even crossed my mind, and I'm feeling a little green and queasy that I might have missed out on a deal on a van segment that I never really thought about. But, it is done.
The ratio of DC to Honda sales to individuals remains at the 2.5:1....although some of the DC minivans are owned for a short portion of their life by fleet and/or rental.
Can't Honda owners understand that the large percentage of used fleet vehicles are purchased by private individuals?
P.S. How many new 2005 Sedonas are still on the dealers lots? What is your MPG with these expensive gasoline costs?
The ratio of DC to Honda sales to individuals remains at the 2.5:1....although some of the DC minivans are owned for a short portion of their life by fleet and/or rental.
Can't Honda owners understand that the large percentage of used fleet vehicles are purchased by private individuals?
They are obviously moving 6-24 month vehicles in large quantities, but the price point is well below comparison IMHO. I'm sure there is quite a loyal following for slightly used Caravans. Personally, I think you'd be nuts to buy a new one. A $3,000-$5,000 difference between a new Odyssey and Caravan is one thing, but a slightly used Caravan will be closer to $10,000-$12,000 cheaper. If I didn't specifically WANT the Odyssey and just was shopping minivans, that'd be an easy decision. Dealer Ad in this mornings paper: 2005 T&C Touring, loaded 31k miles, $14,995. The more discounted fleet vehicles they sell (particularly to rental agencies) the more slightly used iron that hits the street at huge discounts. This is why all manufacturers are trying to cut-back on their fleet sales.
Is someone paying you a buck every time you say "jerk test"? Sorry but a "jerk test" would get you laughed out of any test lab.
There does seem to be more noise in the Odyssey, as used to be the case for Accords. For the third time this generation in the Accord (03, 05, now 06), noise insulation has been increased in the Accord line. My Accord is now quieter than my aunt's 05 Ody, although it has less of a box to echo around in.