By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Well you can see we have a family of Dodge/Chrysler minivans and my brother wouldn't have bought another if he had bad luck with it. We wouldn't have bought one either if he had. Sis and I are both first time minivan buyers.
Mine was much cheaper to buy than the Ody and cheaper to maintain than our Honda Civic. The insurance is even cheaper on my Dodge than the Civic too, which shocked the heck out of both of us. Our next major expense coming up on the Civic is the timing belt. The Dodge has a chain that doesn't need replacing.
While the resale value won't be as good as on the Honda, it won't make much difference as long as we keep our vehicles. We kept our Eagle for 11 years before buying the Civic and with the warranty on the minivan, I plan on keeping it for a long time.
While Chrysler did have a lot of problems in the past with their minivans, Honda also has some big ones with auto transmissions and engine problems. Still have some with their sliding doors the last time I looked.
If you buy a new Chrysler/Dodge minivan now, your helping to keep millions of dollars in profit in America, creating more jobs for Americans, not Japanese or Germans.
Best of all, unless your only using your van as a people hauler, you can't beat the benefits of stow and go and all that storage space. Made me get rid of my truck.
I've recently bought another one too. In spite of all the negative image that has been assigned to these vans I have yet to WITNESS one that is really bad. Oh I hear all kinds of horror stories but never have I SEEN any in the people I know who own them. My new T&C van STILL is not in so I have to rely on my old 2000 T&C. I am now at 178,000 miles with only 1 breakdown (fuel pump - 167,000)
In spite of their alleged reputation I still had to take this old van on various long trips recently - when most people would not trust their very high mileage autos. Since X-mas we did 1 800 mile trip, 1 700 mile trip and 1 300 mile trip. The old grey mare didn't bat an eye. Says alot for reliability to me.
Mine was much cheaper to buy than the Ody and cheaper to maintain than our Honda Civic. The insurance is even cheaper on my Dodge than the Civic too, which shocked the heck out of both of us. Our next major expense coming up on the Civic is the timing belt. The Dodge has a chain that doesn't need replacing.
One thing I have noticed is that some American auto owners don't maintain their auto's like foreign car owners do. When I was shopping for a van I stopped by the Toyota dealership. I was still deciding between putting $550 into my old van verses buying another and donating the broken down one to charity. As I discussed this with the salesman we discussed what further COULD go wrong with my vehicle. Here I discovered that Toyota routinely changes the water pump at 100K (my van still has its original), change the spark plugs every 80K (mine weren't changed until 167K), redo the struts/shocks at 100K (mine weren't done until 143K). My husband recently did the recommended routine maintainence of his BMW at 60K. They changed spark plugs and perhaps a belt (not sure exactly what they did do) but the bill was $1200. I don't think I've put that into my old van yet.
While the resale value won't be as good as on the Honda, it won't make much difference as long as we keep our vehicles. We kept our Eagle for 11 years before buying the Civic and with the warranty on the minivan, I plan on keeping it for a long time.
I'd be careful about predicting the resale value of the Odyssey. Recent price cuts, over production - issues with their transmissions which, as the older one rack up the miles - will become better known, competition from newer makers will probably effect their resale value over the next few years. It is hard to predict the future, but the laws of supply/demand do predict a declining value.
While Chrysler did have a lot of problems in the past with their minivans, Honda also has some big ones with auto transmissions and engine problems. Still have some with their sliding doors the last time I looked.
Add air conditioning condenser and braking problems to that list. Hey I'm sure Chryslers have problems - I just would never put Honda above Chrysler for the reliabilty of their minivans.
Now I can almost hear the steam coming out of the ears of the Odyssey owners.
We took the Civic in for a 30,000 mile maintenance and came away with a bill for over $340.00.
You maybe right on some Americans vehicle owners not servicing their vehicles enough.My brother is one who doesn't maintain his minivan the way he should. He'll go 6-7,000 miles before changing the oil and filter. He was in need of a brake job on his old one but never got it done before trading it in for this 2006 Dodge minivan. He blows out the dirt on his air filter two or three times before replacing it. I don't know how he's been so lucky to only have the freeze plug go out on it since he's owned it. Now that I think about it. That may have happened because he didn't change his anti freeze enough. I'll have to ask him when he changed it last.
Thing of it is, these dealers can charge you so much for servicing your vehicle. I wanted to take our Honda some place else, but the wife won't have it.
Picture of our three minivans. (One is the old one my brother traded in for his 2006 and our Honda Civic.Click on picture. See what a work horse my van is. Love stow-n-go
http://www.carspace.com/marine2/?@@
I religiously change my oil every 5,000 miles and I flush my transmission every 60,000 miles. Other than that I do not follow the scheduled maintainence. I change brake pads when they are worn out, batteries when they die, and belts when they are worn out.
I agree with this except that if you pay more -- as much as you do the imports, you also get better materials, fit and finish and comfort in American autos. That is why I got a T&C Limited. Those materials are not cheap and the car rides and drives quite comfortably. The bottom-of-the-line Toyota uses cheap materials too. I believe Honda gets a pass here from me. Their bottom-of-the-line doesn't use as cheap oi materials as do their competitiors. But until recently is was more expensive.
I agree that the import drivers do maintain their alleged higher-performing vehicles better that your average Joe American driver who beats it to crap then complains because it has a problem. I still can't believe my hubby's $1200 maintainence bill -- which he never complains about unlike an American auto driver who would complain loudly about any $1200 auto repair bill yet alone maintainence.
You make it sound like you're brother is abusing his van. Yes, no? To me at least it sounds like is that he's maintaining it pretty well. FWIW, I go between ten and twelve thousand miles on an oil change and maybe fifty thousand miles on an airfilter (without ever blowing it out even once) for both of our DGCs. The vans have over a combined quarter of a million miles on them and still run as well as the day they rolled off the showroom floor, still return excellent fuel economy, and still burn only about a quart of oil every seven to eight thousand miles.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I have only read about happy caravan owners, so it's funny, we are totally at odds. I ONLY know odyssey owners that love their vehicles and caravan owners that hated theirs. Even met a guy at DD dance class that said he rented one, parked it and somehow had to chase the thing down the street. Is it my freaking destiny not to physically meet a satisfied owner.
Sometimes I want to stop the boxy caravan owners and talk about their car, the longevity. But the used car dealer gladly traded in the van and gave us a tacoma, so I imagine somewhere in town, some poor family desperately wants a van. Hopefully the dealer will fix the power steering and the a/c heating (yet again, altho this time first time for the heat).
Anyway, as always, no matter what the brand, I wish everyone the best of luck in their cars. I don't wish anyone the repairs and insecurity of driving around a lemony car.
The Odyssey noisier than some other minis. This is a Honda trait. My son's 2008 Sienna is very quiet. The transmission on the Odyssey is very smooth and quiet.
I change the oil when the service computer indicates a change is required, usually about 8,000 - 9,000 miles. Nothing but Mobil 1 has been used since the first change. Wal-Mart changes the oil most times (once in a while at the dealer). On Monday the van goes to the dealer for a brake check as I have symptoms indicative of warped rotors.
I'm happy to say that nearly 30,000 miles later those drilled rotors still stop their Odyssey straight and true with nary a pulse in the pedal.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Based on family experience, the Grand Caravan and the Odyssey are very reliable. :shades:
And btw, was reading the new issue of Consumer Reports, check it out. It is an eye opener. Listed as one of the worst cars to buy, you guess it, the 1998 Caravan V6 model. Guess who owned that one?
Anyway, thanx for everyone's well wishes. They were so appreciated. You let me vent all I wanted about that van and were never mean or rude. There was only one person once and he got the boot. I was afraid to write in, but everyone here was very nice.
Of course my perspective on 1998 Chrysler minivans is completely at odds with yours. Our DGC Sport from that year now has 155,000 mile on it and since new it has only cost us about $3,000 in unscheduled maintenance (including the new transmission), and continues to be absolutely the most reliable car I've ever owned (among those that I've driven for at least 75,000 miles).
Good luck with your 'Yota.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Thanx for the well wishes. I just want some darn peace around here regardless of car. And dh has to deploy sometime so guess who gets to drive that behemoth for a bit
Glad to hear your van is running strong. I have heard a few on here that have had some positives so it's nice to have that counteract the only negatives I had recently heard.
Current van is a 2002 Mazda MPV ES which now with 3 children we have outgrown (only really seats 6 with booster/car seats installed).
Requirements:
Looking for van which can occasionally seat 8 (when friends/relatives visit and we all go out together), but with easy flexibility in and out of 3rd row for day to day driving. Also, Looking for van with much lateral legroom for driver. Specifically, I'm 6'2" (football player build) and on long trips, no matter how far back the driver seat is my right leg constantly bangs against the center dash/console (and the cupholders on the MPV). Even with cruise control on (to take foot off the pedals), cannot move leg far enough to the right to get a good stretch/comfort.
Actions:
Test drove 2008 Odyssey EXL RES. Ride was good. Extra stowable 8th seat was great, although not sure who would fit on it or whether a car seat could fit on it. Driver seat was terribly uncomfortable. Same problem with my right leg banging the center console. Liked Honda's package simplicity - easy to cross shop other dealers.
Then drove 2008 Toyota Sienna LE. Ride was much softer than the Honda - much like the Honda salesman told me it was going to be. Thought with the extra "published" front seat legroom, the seating would be more comfortable than the Odyssey - or at least my right leg would be more comfortable. Not the case - comfort was about the same as with the Odyssey. Even after trying multiple tilts/heights of each seat.
Yesterday drove the 2008 T&C Touring. Photo comparisons showed what looked to be a flatter dash with less of a protrusion into the cabin by the center console/dash. So even with front legroom measurements similar to the Odyssey, there was hope it would be doable. Sitting in the drivers seat I was not disappointed. Plenty of space to swing my right knee as far to the right as I wanted without tilting the front seat too far back. So now my concerns with this model: lack of seating for 8 (or specifically seating 3 people/children in the 2nd row), perceived quality issues/poorer resale if it turns out I want to get rid of van in a few years, small engine(s) on low trim models, 2nd row buckets do not slide to center to make easy passage to backseat.
Questions:
Anyone have any different feedback around the console issue - were you able to get the front seat more comfortable on the Ody/Sienna? Any way to get an aftermarket 3rd 2nd row seat into the T&C. Right now, I may have to look at full size SUVs with a front bench seat. Just looking for something with a front seat as comfortable as the one on my 1989 Ford Taurus.....
However, are you buying the vehicle for your OWN comfort or for the ability to take the 8th person on occasion? :confuse:
Now that is the million dollar question (or $30K one at least). Next stop will be to go to local Carmax and have them line up the leading contenders side by side and move from one to the next to see about fit (should be able to take care off all (or equivalent body style) but the 08 T&C).
Based on family experience, the Grand Caravan and the Odyssey are very reliable.
I always do my own research so I asked my 3 friends who bought the Odyssey in 2000 when I bought my Chrysler how their vans were holding up. It doesn't look too good. One has 105,000 and has not had transmission problems. Another had hers replaced in the 80K range through the recall (I did not ask if she had to pay anything) and the transmission went again at 135K. She fixed it again because she can't afford another van right now. The third friend had the transmission go at about 90K. I was replaced for free by Honda. She then traded it in for an 07 Odyssey. Now she has discovered that her 99 Accord's transmission is going with less than 90K on it. I told her that her 07 Odyssey should be better because they redid the transmission placing the heavier Pilot transmission in it. I hope I am right because she is having some health issues and I'd hate to see her have problems again.
I would avoid used Odysseys. What I can't decide is how many miles people should get out of a transmission? What is considered the norm before a transmission is considered to be poorly designed?
I don't know if this is necessarily bad because most of what will be sitting in the center row will be a child in a car seat which usually already have arm rests. I think the comfort of the center seat should be the deciding factor between the 2.
Honda has a well documented problem with the 99 to 04 models. Those models seem to be 95% of the complaints you see on this site. I haven't seen many problems from 05 to 08's but they also have less miles on them. Still a lot of those are well into the range when the previous model was showing problems.
Chryslers warrantee is good, but they haven't had a good history with transmissions either and there are some strings attached. It's a crap shoot anyway you cut it.
180,000 trouble free miles on my 1983 Cavalier....5 spd manual!!
Back to vans???
Best Regards,
Shipo
BTW, 188,000 miles on '87 BMW 5-spd (and original clutch). Yes, given a good design, transmissions can last a long time with minimal attention.
2005 Odyssey EX-L @ $22,998
2005 Chrysler T&C Touring @ $13,998
Both have similar mileage and equipment. I know there was not $9,000 difference in the purchase price.
There was about a $10k difference when I bought my Dodge in 2005!!!
2005 EX/L estimated mileage 40,000
condition "good"
trade-in value $16,035
2005 T&C Touring w/leather est mileage 40,000
condition "good"
trade-in value $11,280
Do it yourself at:
http://www.kbb.com/kbb/UsedCars/default.aspx
I agree totally. IMO transmissions ought to last 200K. My parents had a 1979 Nova that lasted 16 years and 208,000mi without transmission problems. It was "traded in" because the floor boards were rusting out along with the rest of the car. But it had a good transmission and engine!!
BTW 180,000 miles on 2000 T&C 4-spd automatic.
Talked with my trash collector who is lusting after my high mileage T&C. He has 180,000 on his 2000 Ford Windstar. Has replaced the transmission 3 times.
There was a BIG price difference between a 2005 Ody EX-L and a 2005 Ody EX-L with NAV and RES. :shades:
Most used 2005 T&C Touring were rental or fleet with NO extra options.
Now just wait as the dumping of 07 and 08 Ody hit the market in about a year.... I'm seeing discounts of $4000 on EX-Ls on this forum. I got $3000 off a 2008 Ody EX-L from Sam's Club without even making a phone call. I'm itching for a new vehicle but leaning towards a Buick Enclave due to superior towing over a minivan.
thanks,
tnbchick
I am between T&C Limited and Ody Touring no Pax
There are some things I hate on both, I wish I could combine the 2 into 1.
T&C Has no handles to grab while a front seat passenger - when DH will be driving, I tend to get carsick and I like having these on my 05 MDX (it makes me feel better to hang on). The only handle is WAY in front, for boarding I guess, and I learned on overnight test drive that it doesn't cut it for me.
ODY - why do you cut off the leg room for front passenger? The lower glove box goes so low, neither of us can straighten our legs even when all the way back. DH is 6'4 and I'm 5'9. The stupid box hits us both in the shin. The leg room is there, but it is blocked.
T&C - what were they thinking with the cheap, old style antenna? Even on the Limited. It is so distracting and hideous - I don't think I have had one on my car since the 90's! They take it out of their ad photos for a reason - it is ugly!
ODY - Just a tray in the middle? No console. Is there one available as an add on? I use mine A LOT for storage! I really want one in my next car too.
T&C - Lack of interior colors. I really prefer leather interior. The colors available are light and lighter. I cannot believe they don't have a dark gray type color for the interior in leather!
Both - Is there a cargo net or container to keep things from flying around when 3rd row is folded? I don't want stuff rolling into the front.
DH by far prefers the look of the T&C plus legroom is better for him.
I don't particularly like either, but I guess I fall on the side of T&C for exterior appearance.
My MDX was great but the lease is about to end and we want more room. I have a lot more trust for a honda product (mom has had 4 accords and I have had 2 acuras). Haven't driven a Chrysler product since an '88 Dodge Lancer that was so-so.
I would probably get extended warranty on whichever I get, but I would prefer to stay out of the shop.
Also - I've read resale is historically worse on T&C...Are purchase prices different?
Sorry so long winded - any help or opinions are greatly appreciated.
I really doubt there was $9,000 price difference. That would make the T&C about $18,500 new. Y'all tell some tall tales but even here in Texas that is a HUGE one. HA!
The T&Cs flood the rental market hence no resale value. Check any Thrifty or Dollar lot.
No, Sorry, True.....I had $5000 in rebates, end of year cash and dealer incentives, on top of an employee discount of about $3900. Throw in Honda dealer markup at the time, and outrageous $1200 tow package from Honda dealer.... easily $10,000!! I see in the Chrysler forum on here, people are helping others get EP pricing for total strangers who want to buy Chrysler.
Last time I was at Chrysler dealer getting an oil change, I talked to a salesperson about an 08 and she was willing to give me EP price on top of $2000 rebates, without me even have to bother my Chrysler buddy who got me my last deal.
Of course Chrysler has to be competitive now that Honda has started dumping their Odys with $3000-$4000 discounts. That can't be good for recent buyers who paid full sticker earlier last year.
Maybe true for that one snapshot in time and someone who can't negotiate a car sale, and needs towing on a minivan
Last time I was at Chrysler dealer getting an oil change, I talked to a salesperson about an 08 and she was willing to give me EP price on top of $2000 rebates, without me even have to bother my Chrysler buddy who got me my last deal.
Of course they are do you see the state that Chrysler is in. They are bleeding money and have by far the highest warranty costs in the business. The dealer I used Cerritos Dodge for my 2001 Caravan BEGS me contantly to buy something ANYTHING! The stuff they send is embarrassing to me. I never get that kind of stuff from Subaru or Honda.
Funny how this $3K never came up in any of your previous posts since 05? Amazingly, you just remembered this great deal of your's? I'm also glad you didn't experience any of the 5 or 6 recalls and quiet numerous service alerts Honda issued on the 05s!! You are truly blessed
I do wonder why Honda is now discounting like Dodge - up to $6000 on overpriced Touring models!! and what that says about the worth of Odys? I also get embarrasing offers, just recently from Honda due to my Sam's Club request.....
I am shopping for a T&C right now and don't want the light cream color interior but I have yet to see one with the grey interior.
I think the Honda's are nice as well but too much money compared to the deal I can get on the T&C and the Honda only has features on its' top of the line van that I would want.
Call it what you will the Odyssey is still a far better vehicle than the DGC or T&C.
What would you call getting $10,000 off MSRP, which, incidentally, is totally irrelevant as any smart buyer knows you work off true invoice and not MSRP, is that not "dumping"?
I highly doubt anyone with a brain in their head has paid sticker on an Ody since maybe very early in the '05 model year. I bought mine April of '05 and paid $300 over invoice. I shopped a T&C equipped as close as my Ody EX-L R&N and there was about $5,000 difference out the door. The T&C was under invoice and included a rebate which I believe was around $3,500 at that time.
Using KBB private party values with the same vehicles today with 30k miles, it shows a $6,100 difference. So realistically they're not that far off in the scheme of things. I've lost the use of $5,000 in cash so there's obviously some disadvantage there. We liked the Ody better in both driving and features, so the cash wasn't taht big of a deal. But to say one or the other is significantly better in resale....I don't think it's that much.