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Comments
Oh, should we go through the Chrysler/Dodge-Honda posts and see how many complained of their tranny going out? Most of the time the maker doesn't know there is a problem till it happens and then a bunch more happen. Then they either have a recall on the tranny or give an extended warrantee on it. It mostly depends on the cost of fixing it as to what will happen.
Wow talk about baised nothing means anything except your guys opinions. It's always look at the posts, well as far as I know noone is saying there 2005 honda was dead on the side of the highway with kids in in in 100 degree weather. I had to go to the Dodge board for that. So you will used you 5000 miles and less than 1 year of experience to tell long term reliability, talk about opinion. It seems to me that dodge has improved in reliability even the CR you don't like says so!! But honda(actually toyota LOL) is the one to beat. Now Honda has VSC and dodge dosen't. You can't get side airbags and a moonroof with dodge wierd. If there is no way to compare reliabilty CR or any other source than reliability is only in the eyes of the beholder!! We all know that isn't true.
Here is the info on the last two big recalls for dodge and honda
Honda-recalled 1 million transmissions
Honda said it has found only one confirmed instance of a transmission failure related to this defect in its passenger cars, with no accidents or injuries. "We are acting out of an abundance of caution to ensure that this doesn't become an issue for our customers," said Tom Elliott, executive vice president of American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
Dodge- recalled 230,000 radios
Dodge Caravan and Chrysler Town & Country minivans from the 2001 and 2002 model years are affected in the recall. Chrysler Group said the short circuit may result from water seeping into the radio. The defect is most likely to occur in vehicles driven in hot, humid areas, Chrysler said.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration began investigating the defect in July after receiving reports of three fires and one injury.
Now someone on here said Honda have electricial problems. I don't know about that, but this is a problem.
BTW dennis what did you pay you said $10,000 less than honda can you tell me the configuration of you SXT??
That is mostly because of the tranny fluid that didn't start wearing out parts until 45,000-70,000 miles, and some 2-3 years later before anyone even knew there was a problem. Honda's started showing up just months after people bought them, there fore being able to catch it faster before to many thousands were sold. Not that Honda's problems with their transmissions were not as bad as Chryslers, they were even more so.
What have you been reading? I have only said find one professional tester that said what CR said about the 2005 Dodge GC. I didn't give my opinion. Only stating no one is stating what CR said in that article.
It's always look at the posts, well as far as I know noone is saying there 2005 honda was dead on the side of the highway with kids in in in 100 degree weather.
If you believe that story, I have some swamp land in Fla. to sell you.
Dodge Caravan and Chrysler Town & Country minivans from the 2001 and 2002 model years are affected in the recall. Chrysler Group said the short circuit may result from water seeping into the radio. The defect is most likely to occur in vehicles driven in hot, humid areas, Chrysler said.
Yes, and in 2004and 2005 Honda had recalls on fuel pumps and trannies. Point being, neither are perfect. Chrysler vans are doing much better and Honda vans do have their share of problems, no matter what you like us to believe.
SAFETY CONCERN per the government with potential driver EJECTION.
See for yourself. Inexcusable. HONDA MUST CHANGE TODAY!
Shame on you!! Also, no 2nd/3rd row side-airbags for the upper body, only head protection? Mercedes offers it. Give me a break! You are behind in safety with your newly designed vehicle.
Terribly pathetic !
I said this already it's just if you say anything positive about Honda's on this board you get flamed. Like I'm some snob because I bought HONDA. When I bought my dodge in 2001 I thought it handled better than my friends 1999 odyssey. My Honda now by far is the best handling van I have driven. Drove the toyota too soft for me.Also all the packages drove me nuts.I like a little feedback. I like a little pickup but if I say I like the 0-60 times I get minivan driver don't care about that. Well if they don't let whomever reads it decide. As for snob appeal I'm almost 40 and remember a time when honda was thought of as junk and Chrysler was a premium brand. So, I've always thought of Chrysler as a upscale car manufacture. Cars to car things will vary my honda may be a lemon and your dodge might run 500,000 miles and not even need the tires changed. As for the story on the dodge board I thought you guys we're under the impression the post were all legit. I will tell you what you post on the dodge board you have a problem and FLAME ON. Then every time that someone says my A/C went, my back hurts or any other little thing it gets posted on here like it's gospel. Do I know if any are true, no so relax sit back and let the Honda Bashing begin. Because that's what this forum is really for. Heck who cares how many post there are it could be like 8 people LOL. I've seen marine post on a different board. Here's a taste.
What I really like is proving the Ody isn't the perfect van all these Honda owners think it is. Does that sound right from a Honda car owner?
Now that seems a little biased, he knows what he wants and pushes and wishes it to be true!!
I'm beginning to think rationial thought is dead. Regardless of what I say Honda will sell every Odyssey it can build in alabama at a nice profit and Dodge will try and give as much rebates/discounts and lose money to get market share( like that matters) from there manufacturing plant in good ole canada.
This is sooo funny, it's pathetic what some people will do to score points here. Some "woman" creates a new name only hours after this supposedly near disaster on some highway somewhere......just conveniently after I post there looking for people who've had real issues. So obviously a bitter Honda owner.
BTW dennis what did you pay you said $10,000 less than honda can you tell me the configuration of you SXT??
SXT with Sunroof, power hatch and tow package!!! $2500 rebate, $1500 DCX finance cash, $500 end of year cash, and $3900 employee discount (i'm not an employee). 0% finance was not available at end of year. Factor in no discount for Oddy EX and add dealer installed tow package (engine, tranny and steering cooler, but not the auto leveling rear). which runs anywhere from $1500-$2000 for the Honda EX
isellhonda claimed jokingly that Hondas don't have electrical problems. I happen to work for the largest electrical connector company in the world, and work on the acct that manufactures clusters/HVAC modules for Oddy. The LCDs are blanking out due to an competitor's connector, my customer is begging for me to sell them a replacement.
GC SXT MSRP $27,625 and many dealers will sell for under $23,000.
Each has dual power sliding doors, separately controlled temp for driver and front passenger (Ody Automatic, GC Manual), 60,40 split 3rd row fold into the floor, Ody 2nd row + 1 seat - GC 2nd row fold into the floor, cast wheels, power driver seat. Ody roll down part way windows in sliding doors - GC open part way rear side windows. Ody has no complete overhead console while GC has overhead console with compass/outside temperature and trip computer...and there are more things for each that are not high on my list of priority features.
Odyssey seats are more comfortable for me in all 3 rows and my feet rest more comfortably on the floor as a driver in the Odyssey. I personally think the GC SXT has a more stylish exterior. The Taffeta White Odyssey has a very light tan color interior while the Stone White Grand Caravan can have either Grey or darker tan interior. The Odyssey Ocean Mist Metallic (blue) is very attractive with the grey interior. Toss up in whether Odyssey OMM with grey or GC Stonewhite with grey is nicest color combination.
My final decision would depend on which dealership is the most reputable with decent salesman, finance office, and vehicle availability. Either van would be equally acceptable to me.
Oh wow a LCD is blanking out get me a doctor. I'll tell you when it happens to me!!! haven't seen it anywhere else kinda funny!!
BTW of course your competitor's connectors are inferior. It's good to believe in what you sell!!!!
My doofuss nephew never replies to e-mail inquiries about his 2005 Ody EX which is quite frustrating. I was told his Ody EX has a "whistling noise" and sent him the corrective procedures needed (as reported here in the Town Hall) but he has not had the decency to let me know if their Ody has been fixed. :mad:
No, but there are some out there. I could spend a few hours finding some of their statements, but I won't, but they're there. Something like, I bought a Honda that I know will get 200,000 miles on it, instead of a Chrysler that will only go 100,000.Or I bought a Honda and expect to get 100,000 trouble free miles. Or I saw the Dash of the Dodge GC and wanted to throw up.Or something like, if Honda didn't have it on it, it must not be worth putting on.You don't think things like that is snobbish? Do you not understand why I would make the statement you posted,"What I really like is proving the Ody isn't the perfect van all these Honda owners think it is. Does that sound right from a Honda car owner?"
The difference between what I say and what some Honda owners say is this. I don't knock the Honda. I have never said it wasn't a very good van. I have gone out of my way though, to prove it's not the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel as some Honda owners want you to believe it is. But I don't rip it apart like some do the Dodge and a number of domestic made vans. I let their own web sites and their own complaints about their Honda do that.
When they make a false accusation about the Dodge, I set out to prove it's not true. I think I have been pretty fair. It's like the statements made by CR. I showed where others were saying just the opposite of what CR was saying and asked anyone to show me another professional reviewer that agreed with CR. So far I haven't seen anyone do it.
DCX has knee airbags to stop people from slipping under IP in crash.
As in Politics, it's always hard to prove a negative.
My favorite CR moment, from the March 2005 issue. On all minivans tested they complain that the head restraint are in their low position, they don't protect the occupant. If the head restaints were permanently set higher, they'd be whining about the view being obstructed. I wonder if CR ever thought it might be the "responsibility" of the driver and passenger to adjust their seats/head restraints before heading out on a trip???
DCX builds Minivans in both US and Canada. I was going to comment on where Honda's profits are going i.e..Japan, but guess I can't use that arrow seeing how DCX's are Germany.
I let their own web sites and their own complaints about their Honda do that.
I love how, after I posted here looking for "troubled" 2005 DCX vans, we get new same day members having MAJOR disasters with their new DCX minivan!!!! Pathetic!!!!!
I might have ended up with a Honda instead of DCX...maybe if dealer would have knocked off a few grand, lost the attitude and I couldn't have gotten my buddy's employee discount. I drove the Oddy same day it arrived at dealer last summer. I was impressed with most of it, some things bothered me..i.e..the VCM switching almost constantly from 6 to 3 cylinders (or at least the ECO light telling me that). I think I drove Oddys at 4 dif dealers here in Detroit (I have a lot of freedom during day
Know what I really love about my DCX van the most (after Stow N Go)...the power hatch! A $400 option on most DCX vans (only available on Oddy Touring). I wouldn't have ordered it personally but it was one of a few vans on lot with Tow package (which was a MUST for my family). The power hatch is the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel
Written portion does not agree with test numbers. :confuse:
CR supposedly educates people how to get low prices on many items but then never tells people that a DC minivan can be purchased with a large discount, rebate, or incentive.
CR compares DC MSRP with MSRP of the Odyssey and Sienna when any intelligent, informed buyer knows that a DC minivan actually costs thousands $$$$$ LESS than a comparable Odyssey or Sienna.
BTW of course your competitor's connectors are inferior. It's good to believe in what you sell!!!!
The issue probably isn't large enough for recalls or tons complaints but it's there. The problem was designing in a PC type of connector for an automotive application. PCs just sit on a desk with no harsh vibrations or bumps or temp extremes that an autmobile does.
This is a global economy that we are are living in now. Anything or any country in the world is fair game for all.
Anyone who thinks otherwise, is living in the past and the dark.
It is called OPPORTUNITY to displace your connector competition. GO FOR IT!
Having been in Supply Chain Management with over $1B/yr in material purchases, I would welcome a higher quality part/supplier at competitive/lower cost. Total cost of ownership is more important than initial lower part cost. A lower cost part that comes with lower quality/higher maintenance is undesireable. That is true of any product, like a vehicle, that one purchases.
My favorite is the part where the tester says the controls (are busy) on the Dodge GC. I'm still trying to figure that one out. Does that mean they are all working and he didn't expect them to be?
Yes you can. I read an article awhile back, that even though Chrysler is German owned, there are more American investors, than German investers in D/C, because of company pension and 401-K plans in the US. Although individual American ownership is only about 20-25%.
I'd like to know if CR EVER thought DCX Minivans were competitive!!! Especially in the 90s when the Japanese were selling mid engine Previas or tall MPVs. I doubt it very much!!
Here's the cars direct prices right now.
Honda EX 26,681+ dealer installed tow 1500.00 I've seen it for less but about average 28,181.00 total.
GC STX sunroof, power hatch, and tow 24,790.00 with all rebates.
Difference 3,391.00
Dennis you got smoking deal but most people would get a deal like this one.
Here's the cars direct prices right now.
Honda EX 26,681+ dealer installed tow 1500.00 I've seen it for less but about average 28,181.00 total.
GC STX sunroof, power hatch, and tow 24,790.00 with all rebates.
Difference 3,391.00
Dennis you got smoking deal but most people would get a deal like this one.
Everyone's situation is different. I'm sure Detroit is backwards from the rest of the country...i.e....domestic dealers easily outnumber imports, which is opposite of CA and other states. Plus everyone here knows someone in the industry, and can usually get at least supplier discounts/friend & family. You're 3,391 difference could easily be greater if you factor in finance cost over 4-5 years vs. 0% now, or the time value of 3391 over 5 years. Plus DCX dealers are more willing to negotiate than Honda dealers.
It'll be interesting if Ford and DCX match GM's "employee pricing for all" strategy....bringing prices inline with value.
Well if thats the case the consumer will win. For all brands!Its wierd how different the dealers are for one to another. When I looked at the honda and toyota. I had one bad experience. I went to Family Honda in Rancho Santa Magarita. I was looking at colors (We got sagebrush pearl it's some wierd grayish, blueish, greenish thing) and then I was going to start negotiations. The guys like here's whats coming in and as far as price MSRP + 1000.00 take it or leave it. As I was leaving he said you can't do better and you'll be sorry. Yeah I was sorry that I stepped one foot into that place. All my other experiences we're positive no pressure and very upfront.
While I'd be the first to admit the Toyota makes the world's best vehicles and that the new Honda is very nice inside and with a new high tech engine and tranny. To say the Chrysler minivans are no longer competitive with them is completely wrong. When your engine is only a few seconds slower, you stop only four feet longer and there is only two mpg difference in fuel mileage with Chrysler's old engine and transmission, against the new high tech engines and tranny, I would say they are still very competitive. I would have thought with a five speed tranny and three cylinders that can cut out, Honda would have done much better against Chrysler's old four speed and push rod engine. But they didn't. Then with Chrysler coming out with Stow-n-Go, that no one else has, I think Chrysler minivans are doing quite well. Especially now that they seem to have up'd their reliability in their newer vans to where I think they are as good or better than Honda's. It's for sure they are putting out better reliable cars than their parents are now.
If you want to go for inside looks, the Honda and Toyota are much nicer. But I think Chrysler makes up for that with a nice looking van outside and giving a buyer a lot more features than they can get from either Honda or Toyota for the money. Some features, the Japanese vans don't offer at all at any price.
Wow sometimes we can AGREE, true dodge has more features(options) and when it comes to looks the japanese are more appealing(talk about subjective LOL). But Dodge started the look and everyone else just copies. In 2001 I tought DCX had the best looking exterior. I think the dash is too big but some people like that. I still think VSC(that isn't on the dodge) is a big deal. I'll agree for the maturity of the components the dodge is holding it's own. I've had 3 dodges with the 3.3l engine and done 260,000 miles on them without a issue(just tune ups) Is CR baised of course we all are LOL.
CR has the cold, hard numbers but they know that disclosing them would cause their credibility to plummet faster than the grandious MX missile plan for the Nevada-Utah deserts failed. :sick:
Although I personally feel that Edmund's writers are biased against DC minivans, they do have the integrity to publish all data and we usually know the identity of the person who wrote the written opinions.
Well they do show all the data when they get sued. So far I don't think they lost a lawsuit. And this is going up against the best lawyers money can buy. There are alot of things that aren't easily judged, and face it a test drive isn't like about all about data its very subjective. What I like, you may not. Some people bought the Aztek and said wow what a great look. Looks, feel, and driving impressions are very diffferent. I think the people at CR like the sporty handling feel. They love BMW's and always rate Volvo(but I like volvo)low. You can decide what you want but without them I would have to spend alot more time on my purchases. You'll just have to wait until you've passed away to find perfection. BTW I almost bought the IONIC Breeze both my boys have asthma, thankfully I didn't because not only is it not a good air cleaner it puts off O3.
Wanna hear the amazing thing, the guy who came up with Aztek styling and marketing studies ended up getting promoted within GM to Saturn!!!!!!!!!
Wow, I coulda made something that bad. GM here I come. That thing makes the both the DCX and Honda van look like dream cars!!
I love the ECO light it makes me feel good. Like I'm saving money. The maintenance minder is cool too. But I'm a techno geek!!
ANY car is good for 200,000 miles
I drove 2 dodge caravans 1988 and 1992 120,000 + with just small problems a 1995 dodge intrepid 105,000 miles(1 tranny, A/C condenser twice, and brake master cylinder) My last dodge caravan wasn't big enough and had the most problems but if I had bought a GC I probably would have waited until 2009 to buy. Do the maintenance and take care of it. Keeping any car going thats less than 10 years old is less expensive than a new car. But boy do I like my new Odyssey.
Battle of the Minivans: It goes to Honda by a hair
Intersesting in the heart of Detroit.
Another for Ody!
Without the family ties to Chrysler, the Ody would have won by a wider margin!
Can also be said if realistic pricing was presented i.e..rebates and financing, the Chrysler would have won. All they did was list MSRPs.
Problem being there, is Chrysler's redesign was only with the seats. It looks the same, in and out as last years. Honda's was a complete redesign, not only with looks but engine and tranny and it was still close.
You noticed that nothing was said about the much better handling of the Honda over the Chrysler unlike CR tried to imply.
I think what won most people over to the Honda was the dash. That impressed me also when I saw it. I also liked the lack of plastic in the inside. What turned me off on the Honda was the fact that the cloth looked so nice, I knew I would never want to carry anything in it more than people that could mess it up. I took it as a very nice people hauler, but not family friendly. I would never want kids to eat or drink in the Honda and wouldn't ever think of going over to Home Depot and loading up drywall, sod, timber or etc.
So it boils down to what I wanted to do with my van. I liked the looks of the Honda a lot inside. It just wasn't family friendly. I sure wouldn't have traded my truck in for it.
Bob Kazanowski, a 58-year-old bar owner and father of two from Wolverine Lake Village, said "both serve their market perfectly."
But he voted for the Odyssey, citing its classy instrument panel, more powerful 255-horsepower 3.5-liter V-6 engine and ride quality.
What turned me off on the Honda was the fact that the cloth looked so nice, I knew I would never want to carry anything in it more than people that could mess it up.
I got the leather and the all weather mats so far no problems.
This statemant is whatI think is so true. Could you imagine going to State College Pa.(Penn State) and getting 5 out of 9 people to say Ohio State has the best football program.
It was a significant win for Japan's Honda Motor Co., given the decidedly pro-Detroit bent of the group.
You have leather in your van, which I am sure is very nice. But I think what I said about hauling stuff like lumber, drywall or sod still holds just as true with leather as it does with cloth, to most Honda owners. Most are not going to take the chance of ripping your leather seats carrying any of that stuff. You'd even have to be very careful carrying a stroller as to not rip it. It's a great looking van inside. It's a very versatile van for holding up to eight people or less. But it's not a family friendly van.
I think the Odyssey a great family van for hauling people in comfort. But when it comes to hauling stuff 2X4's plywood and then want to quickly move people the Dodge is the logical choice. My brother in law has a 1500HD truck, and not only will he pick it up(can't get the new van dirty LOL) but then I got someone to help me do the work. He does great fence work too. So if you want to use you van like a truck Stow and Go hands down.
You are honestly comparing loyalty to a college football team, to a car purchase???? Besides, Everyone knows Joe Pa is the best!!!! WE ARE PENN STATE!!!! (class of 1989, in Detroit teaching the Michiganders how to build automobiles
Sorry, marine2...That just struck me as funny. :P