2012 Ford Focus

1161719212227

Comments

  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    Doesn't the Golf use timing chain? At least the 2.5 VR5 does, right? But does chain mean maintenance free?
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I think you have to oil timing chains, but they're supposed to be permanent, unlike timing belts. I would always dread timing belt replacements, they always ding you bad for those.

    Aren't most engines on timing chains nowadays?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "One thing for sure, the VW interior components are poorly made, AC vents, door handles and other plastic components fail in a hasty manner."

    Have you been in a late model VW recently; no evidence of any poorly made trim and fixtures in our 2012 GTI.

    "Keeping the VW running "per" suggested maintenance schedule will break Howard Hughes, even worse than keeping a Japanese vehicle maintained."

    Hmmm, between my wife a I we've owned five VWs and not one was expensive to maintain. In fact, the most expensive car I've ever owned from a maintenance perspective was a Japanese car. Go figure.

    "The Mazda should be pretty tough overall, worse real world fuel economy, VERY LOUD DB in the passenger compartment but this may be fixed with some of the adhesive backed rubber sound absorbent mat, maybe."

    Dead on with this comment. The noise difference between my Mazda3 and my wife's GTI is astounding; I never realized how loud my Mazda was until I drove her GTI.

    Both of the VW engines [Gas & TDI] do have a "Interference Engine" and Timing Belt which means when the timing belt breaks,, you lose a $4,000.00 engine.

    With the exception of maybe the current TDI engine, I don't believe there are any VWs sold in the North American market which have a timing belt; I know for certain the 2.0T (the engine in the GTI) sports a timing chain.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I don't believe there is such as a VR5 for the North American market; there certainly isn't one in the current lineup. FWIW, the base engine for the Golf, Jetta, and Passat is an Inline-5 layout, and yes, it has a maintenance free timing chain.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    I've never owned a Focus, so I can't comment on relative costs between the two, but I HAVE owned a VW (2000 Jetta VR6).

    I did find the oil changes excessively expensive - couldn't get them done locally anywhere but the dealership because there was some issue with it needing a "special" filter. Didn't have a whole lot else done to it.

    I would definitely disagree with the flimsy interior allegation - it was very solidly built. Apart from the cupholders, I'd love to have that interior back.

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    Review your vehicle

  • drvettedrvette Member Posts: 99
    Sure the TDI does more MPG, but is it worth the extra $$$ initial investment,, OH and don't forget the Massive Upkeep costs with the TDI.

    Don't take my word for it, check out the TDIForums.com for yourself.

    Also, the TDI's seem to vary with serious issues from costly fuel pump problems, ac/heater issues, windows that fall down, suspension problems, ete. etc. which vary year to year.

    Also you can NOT run Bio-Diesel over 5% in the new TDI's because of the 5-Shot injection system.
    The 5th shot is done with the exhaust valve OPEN to burn off the DPF
    Running Bio-Diesel stronger than 5% causes it to wash down by the rings, thinning out the motor oil, and SEIZE goes the engine.

    VW will NOT honor warranties on engines using 5% or more fuel.

    We need to SAY Thanks to the Feds for mandating that Diesel cars put out the same amount of CO2 and particulates as Gasoline vehicles.
    It seems to me that if they spent many $B's on Bio-Diesel research, they'd install a DPF cutoff device when the tank detected a proper concentration of clean fuel.

    FYI, B-100 does NOT require a DPF or other means of limiting the particulate emissions. [AFAIK]
    [ DPF = Diesel Particulate Filter ]

    The 3-cyl VW Polo Blue Motion in Europe gets about 90mpg [Imperial Gallons] using std Diesel [Euro Fuel is 1.25gl vs the US gl at 1.0g]

    I do Love VW's though and wish they'd get the ball rolling, again.
    And the US Govt would relax Diesel Emissions on automobiles.

    FYI #2 OTR Trucks account for about 25% of the Diesel Usage in the US

    DrVette
  • drvettedrvette Member Posts: 99
    That color is actually "Blue Candy Metallic" and costs an additional $375.00

    As of Nov 24th 2011 that is :)

    DrVette
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 7,238
    The door latches in the new Focus were the cheapest plastic I've seen in a long time...garbage really. My five year old Civic's are far superior in that respect. Plan to keep it till the wheels fall off!

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • puffin1puffin1 Member Posts: 276
    It maybe VW,but at least a V dub's DSG is wet.. I like the focus ,but the tranny is a sealed unit.(scary to me. and a wet DSG might make you use 1 or 2 miles more a gallon.(no biggie)
    The car business can't be that bad I took the V dub into Prime motors in Saco,Maine with 9 k on it and asked what it's worth on a trade and I was not given a call back. The guy servcing my car says this car is like new.I bought 2 cars from them in 3 years. I walked in to their Ford dealer ship and every one just sat at their desk ,so screw them.
    Does anyone really know if the VW polo is comming over here?There is a GTI version as well as a (" shorter golf". Edmunds shows it. I asked Prime if it was comming and they had no record of it, or even any knowledge of it.
    I checked out the Volster and forget it. The salesperson said it was to compete with Mini and some other car I forget. It was a dog,but he said wait for the Turbo.
    How does one get a car from the UK, go on vacation in the spring drive it 4K and modify it from a gray car to meet U.S. specs. My brother in law got his Porshe that way trough a dealer friend he hangs with. He shipped it back and said he saved money,hard to believe.ty, Puffin
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "The salesperson said it was to compete with Mini and some other car I forget."

    The Fiat 500?

    "How does one get a car from the UK, go on vacation in the spring drive it 4K and modify it from a gray car to meet U.S. specs. My brother in law got his Porshe that way trough a dealer friend he hangs with. He shipped it back and said he saved money,hard to believe."

    Not sure about the Porsche scenario you referred to, but my wife and I took a vacation to Europe a few years ago and while there I picked up a new U.S. spec 530i, drove it a tad over 2,000 miles, and then had it shipped back. I figure I saved over $4,000 on the car.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    edited November 2011
    I thought the VW DSG had 'odd' shifting as well...similar to the Focus. My problem was I was letting up on the gas a bit just before it would shift (manual tranny habits die hard...even after years of auto). So I had to 'learn' to drive the VW DSG...maybe the Focus tranny is similar. Of course the Focus doesn't have launch control (fahrenheit GTI) ;)

    I vote for shipo's idea...European delivery.

    I think the Focus is built in Spain and France...as well as being imported from Detroit...it would be interesting to get a Euro-delivery Ford :P
  • drvettedrvette Member Posts: 99
    edited November 2011
    Re: Creakid1
    Q. Does the 2.5L Golf have a Chain ?

    A. I dunno, you didn't say what year, go to this link and see if it's listed as an "Interference Engine" which will be in Red.
    link title

    However, BOTH of the Beetle Engines that I checked were Zero Interference Engines
    DOUBLE CHECK with your parts man to see if it takes a belt or chain, also the maintenance manual will tell you.

    DrVette
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited November 2011
    How does one get a car from the UK, go on vacation in the spring drive it 4K and modify it from a gray car to meet U.S. specs. My brother in law got his Porshe that way trough a dealer friend he hangs with. He shipped it back and said he saved money,hard to believe.ty, Puffin

    As noted, he probably did a European delivery - ordered it in North America, picked it up at a delivery center, drove around the UK and then shipped it back as part of the program.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Wow that's a slow catalog lookup. I shudder to think what's on their backend.
  • drvettedrvette Member Posts: 99
    Re the poorly made interior components
    Typicallly in the past they look fine for a year or two, then start to degrade.
    Look in the Edmunds.com customer discussion/reviews for details.

    Re: the timing belt issue
    The TDIForums.com go on and on about the Jetta/Beetle Timing Belt problems and the extended Labor on changing one on the Beetle.

    The Gates website, indicates that all the Jetta/Beetle 2.0L Gas and the 2.0L TDI engines DO have belts for timing, up to 2011,
    the site may need updating for 2012 OR perhaps they have a chain now.

    Quote from Gates on a Jetta 2011 2.0L TDI
    "Timing Belts & Components
    Cam. Belt
    Automotive Timing Belt T342
    Interference engine application

    http://www.gates.com/part_locator/index.cfm?location_id=3598

    BTW
    The 5-cyl 2.5L engine does NOT list a timing Belt OR interference engine warnings.

    DrVette
  • drvettedrvette Member Posts: 99
    I'm on dial-up, so it's only slow for me, most likely, BTW that's the only service I can get here in No-Where USA :shades:
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    No, it's slow for me too and I'm on a corporate connection right now.

    Of course, that corporate connection happens to be a different eCatalog provider, so take that as you will. At least it's not Activant. :shades:
  • drvettedrvette Member Posts: 99
    edited November 2011
    I think what's even more important is a warning buzzer to warn driver that he is lugging the engine & needs to downshift!

    FYI, lugging an engine causes rapid cylinder wall wear more than any problems with bearing or crankshaft wear.. [In my experience]

    As an old wrench for over 50 yrs, I've seen tear-downs of power-plants from 1948 to modern engines both Domestic, European and Japanese.

    Drivers of stick-shift vehicles that insist on changing gears at super low RPM always show a ring grove at the top of the bore.
    Requiring a groove tool to remove the piston.

    This is called excess "Side Loading" by demanding power at too low a RPM.

    The maximum wear for average operators occurs at the bottom of the bore where the piston "Rocks" as it reverses direction.
    All machine shops check bore at the bottom of the piston travel, not at the top.

    Also, just for kicks, drivers who tach out their engines to the max and beyond seem to NEVER show a ring groove, but instead show worn-out rings, scuffed pistons and bearings, collapsed valve springs etc,, but never a groove[except in very, very high mileage engines.

    These statements are from my experience and will vary from Mfg to Mfg as some use very hard Rings and soft iron blocks and others do the opposite.

    Nissan used soft rings and hard iron, Chrysler used hard chrome faced rings and soft iron blocks.

    Sorry for all the drivel, hope this clears up "some" confusion.

    DrVette
  • drvettedrvette Member Posts: 99
    Are you talking about the Gates Catalog ?

    http://www.gates.com/part_locator/index.cfm?location_id=3598

    Actually it is one of the fastest loading sites for my 20-Mule Team Powered Dial-Up service :shades:

    DrVette
  • drvettedrvette Member Posts: 99
    In the "70's &"80's, there was a "once in a lifetime exclusion" so you could import some Non-US compliant vehicle.

    Not so easy today.

    Partial Quote:
    "In 1998, NHTSA exempted vehicles older than 25 years from the rules it administers, since these are presumed to be collector vehicles.
    In 1999, certain very low production volume specialist vehicles were also exempt for "Show and Display" purposes.
    However, the ban on newer vehicles considered safe in countries with lower vehicle-related death rates has led some to claim that the main effect of NHTSA's regulatory activity is to protect the U.S. market for a modified oligopoly consisting of the three U.S.-based automakers

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Highway_Traffic_Safety_Administration

    Check the overview by Country

    Some states allow the "cleaning" of titles to remove any detrimental info such as "Totaled" etc and reissue a "clean bill of health" then the vehicle is transferred to an unwitting buyer in another state.. I'll withhold the state I KNOW does this but a hint is "it's the 2nd state in alphabetical order' [disclaimer, I HEARD This, I do NOT Know for sure] :shades:

    IN Connecticut
    Registration and inspection of a Grey Market vehicle:
    http://www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=804&Q=244900

    Grey Market petition to reduce vehicle age from 25 to 15 for importation

    http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=488527

    DrVette
  • drvettedrvette Member Posts: 99
    edited November 2011
    QI think you have to oil timing chains

    A Timing Chains run off the crankshaft where they get a good dose of oil
    Most do have a "tensioner" which is spring loaded AND has oil pressure to increase tension on the chain at higher RPM's

    Q.Aren't most engines on timing chains nowadays?

    A. I don't know the answer for that, however the link below will show in Red, "Interference Engine Application" for engines with timing belts that will wreck the motor when they break.

    FYI, some engines, like the Ford's aged 2.3L 4cyl has a timing belt, but it has reliefs cut into the pistons so the motor is not destroyed when the timing belt breaks.

    http://www.gates.com/part_locator/index.cfm?location_id=3598

    Do NOT
    rely totally on this link or ANY source soley for data regarding something as important as this issue, contact the dealer service dept, parts dept etc for complete info.

    DrVette
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Typicallly in the past they look fine for a year or two, then start to degrade. Look in the Edmunds.com customer discussion/reviews for details."

    I've owned a number of VWs over the years and never had such an issue. That said, I've never owned a Jetta which I understand has most of the issues.

    "The TDIForums.com go on and on about the Jetta/Beetle Timing Belt problems and the extended Labor on changing one on the Beetle.

    The Gates website, indicates that all the Jetta/Beetle 2.0L Gas and the 2.0L TDI engines DO have belts for timing, up to 2011"


    As I previously stated, the TDI is a timing belt engine. The 2.0L gas engine for the Golf/Jetta/Beetle hasn't been made in quite a number of years (or at least not sold here in the States for years). The 2.0T motor has a timing chain.

    Said another way, the only VW engine currently for sale here in the States with a timing belt is the TDI.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    edited November 2011
    In the "70's &"80's, there was a "once in a lifetime exclusion" so you could import some Non-US compliant vehicle.

    Not so easy today.


    I imported a civic from Canada into the USA...15+ years ago. Got 'stuck' at the border for hours waiting for Honda of Canada to fax appropriate documentation that the little civic doesn't pollute. I think the car didn't have the proper labeling...Of course as I waited I watched dozens of V8 clunkers cruise by :)

    This is menial when compared to the monumental task of importing the oranges I had...pleading the case that they were stamped "Florida" didn't matter :)
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited December 2011
    The DSG clutch of the VR6 Golf R is probably wet type, but what about the DSG in the other Golf/GTI models?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    All DSGs sold in the North American market are wet clutch.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    All VW DSGs sold in the North American market are wet clutch.

    All Ford DSGs sold in the North American market are dry clutch.

    Just to be clear.....
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Correct me if I'm wrong; I believe the acronym "DSG" has long since been trademarked by the VW Audi Group (VAG). If I'm correct in that assertion, then by definition, all DSGs currently sold in North America have wet clutches as those transmissions can only be found in VW and Audi automobiles. Yes, no?

    This isn't to say that there aren't other manufacturers which also sell their cars with Dual-Clutch automatic transmissions; they just cannot be referred to as DSGs.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    DSG = Direct Shift Gearbox. It was a generic term before VW made it their brand name. Just like Ford's use of DCT - dual clutch transmission.

    I wasn't trying to argue - just be clear about which ones were wet vs. dry clutch.
  • woochiferwoochifer Member Posts: 32
    "I've owned a number of VWs over the years and never had such an issue. That said, I've never owned a Jetta which I understand has most of the issues. "

    My mom had a New Beetle, and the scenario described by drvette is exactly what happened with her car. The soft touch materials looked great when new, but started to wear down very quickly. The door handles started peeling, and the metallic coating on some of the plastic parts also started wearing off. This was all within a three year time frame.

    It all appeared and felt luxurious in the dealer showroom, but after a few years it looked trashed. Her biggest issue with that car though was the myriad of electrical problems that developed. That overall experience turned her off on VWs when it came time to shop for her last car. She now drives a Mazda3 -- the interior doesn't look quite as nice, but at least it wears well -- basically looking much the same now as it did in the showroom three years ago. And she has had zero unscheduled repairs.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Well time will tell in this one; we now have a Mazda3 and a GTI, based upon my previous experience with both marques I'd say the GTI's interior will hold up better. You however seem to say otherwise.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 7,238
    He's speaking from real world experience, but your new VW may have the nicer materials inside. I sat in your car at the dealer last month and really liked it...better than the Jetta I test drove. Have a $25 coupon to test a new Mazda3 and am hoping to use it this Thursday. Interested to see and feel how the interior appointments have changed compared to our '05 3s.

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • deneliusdenelius Member Posts: 1
    I recently hired a rental car and was upgraded to the ford focus which I was really pleased about as this was one of the cars on my list for a possible future purchase …that was until I saw this …http://tinypic.com/r/w8mjjo/5 Please could someone at Ford explain what the thinking was behind this design?
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Never noticed that...I suppose it takes up less space than a traditional handbrake.

    Is your main complaint that there is a handbrake instead of a foot brake in an automatic...or the design of the handbrake?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It is a little awkward but in practice it never goes that high.
  • tim156tim156 Member Posts: 308
    Is this pic from your rental? Based on the gold/beige console trim, if it's a NA Focus, it appears to be an SEL. The hand brake on my SEL does not pull up that way, just the handle itself pulls up, no extension below the console. That may be a generic photo from a European spec Focus. The consoles and placement of the hand brake are slightly different in the S and SE trims versus the SE Sport package, SEL and Titanium trims, but I've never seen one that pulls up like that.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    My daughter's SEL works like that, but you don't have to raise it up that high - only about 1/3 of that height.
  • tim156tim156 Member Posts: 308
    I'll have to take a closer look at mine. That pic looks like it's pulled up 8-10 inches, mine only moves about 3-4 inches before it's tight.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Exactly. But it is the same design.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Is that ebrake in the pic just yanked way up past normal or is there something wrong with it?
  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    I'm pretty late to this game. Anyone know why I only seem to receive email notifications of new postings in this forum for about 1 in 5 postings?

    I have to agree with Ivan and Shipo on this. Even though bpizzuti may technically be correct, it just doesn't make any real-world sense. If a friend asked you to help you car shop beause you are a car guy, and such person said they need to buy an automatic because they can't drive a manual, would you steer that person only to cars that have a torque converter? And then much later, when asked why you didn't mention any DSG cars, go into a half-hour lecture about transmission terminology?

    I think your friend would regret having asked you for help.
  • tim156tim156 Member Posts: 308
    I looked closer and mine is the same design with the curved piece under the console. I wonder if that's a Ford or photo image bank stock generic photo of a mocked up console and there's no cable connected, that's the reason it can be pulled up that far????
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited December 2011
    It's a joke, OK? Maybe it came from a porno site... :P

    Here's som'in more serious.

    "This is the sportiest version of the new Ford Focus yet. The Zetec S has been developed specifically for the UK market...

    Yet despite its performance upgrade, this Focus retains the impressively smooth stop-start system, regenerative braking and active grille shutter of other models, so it emits 139g/km of CO2. And Ford’s engineers have reworked the suspension, giving the car stiffer springs and shocks.

    The ride height is unchanged, however, so the suspension is still supple enough to soak up rough road surfaces with ease and retain its composure at speed – it strikes an excellent balance between body control and ride comfort.

    The well weighted steering delivers positive turn-in and plenty of feel, and there’s lots of grip. Add a slick-shifting six-speed manual box, and it’s hard to fault the driving experience."


    But EVO sez the steering's "lack of feel"... & the lack of "mk1's magic"...

    "With its keener suspension setup, the mk3 Focus feels tauter, cornering with little roll and exuding great balance and body control. The steering is very quick, perhaps more so than you’d like considering its lack of feel (thank the shift from a hydraulic to electric setup), but once you’ve got accustomed to it, you’ll get a real flow going over Britain’s twisty and choppy B-roads. This is helped along by a compliant and well-judged ride that shames most other sporty hatchbacks...

    Those who remember the magic of the mk1 Focus and its unlikely agility will find this mk3 iteration lacks such sparkle, but that doesn’t stop it being dynamically capable."


    evo RATING
    + Keener and faster Ford Focus
    - Still to rediscover the mk1's magic


    Therefore, maybe you're better off finding an mk1 is the used car market :P
    hatch (std, Recaro)
    sedan
  • tim156tim156 Member Posts: 308
    WTF? That's why this 2012 Focus forum is a waste of time. I own one, do you, does anyone posting here own one? What's the point of your last post and why are you quoting something unrelated to the 2012 Focus? Oh, I get it, it's a joke.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    What's the point of your last post and why are you quoting something unrelated to the 2012 Focus?

    Read the posted links again. All the quotes are on the 2012 mk3 Focus'.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Define "manual."
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Define "manual."

    I could...

    A manual garage door is one that you have to get out and open with your hands.

    An automatic garage door opener you just have to click a button; the method in which it performs this automation is irrelevant (as far as classifying it as automatic that is...)

    Same with trannies :shades:
  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    A booklet often provided with a product, containing instructions and specifications for the user.

    Er, was that not useful? I guess I would say a manual in a car is a transmission that requires use of a clutch pedal. I could just as well as said "stickshift" in my original post. I'm guessing that I left myself open to another hypertechnical response?
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Well, by your definition a sequential manual isn't a manual then. So is it an automatic?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Well, by your definition a sequential manual isn't a manual then. So is it an automatic?"

    If a transmission is capable of being put in "D" and left to its own devices, it is an "Automatic".

    If such an "Automatic" has a mode which allows the driver to request +1 or -1 gear changes, then it is an "Automatic with a Semi-Automatic mode".

    If an automated transmission in question must always be told when to shift and whether to shift up or down (i.e. it has no “Drive” mode) then it is a "Semi-Automatic".

    As far as I know, there are exactly zero cars being sold these days with a "Sequential-Manual" transmission; motorcycles are a different story.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I also notice you were very careful to NOT answer the question.

    It's Ok, we all know you're one of those purists who really REALLY wishes for the old days when men were men and clutches were attached to pedals, but one day you to will realize the world of transmissions isn't that simple anymore. :shades:
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