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Except the Probe was Japanese (Mazda) technology.
If the new Focus also got rear leg room, then the other car companies might as well go bankrupt.
And that is a problem for Ford... how? More likely, Ford didn't put more leg room in the Focus so it doesn't steal too many sales from the Fusion, which I expect has higher profit margins.
Initially, when I checked out Fiesta sedan's exterior dimensions that matches my old Focus, I believed its cramp rear seating was done deliberately in order to protect the sales of the more expensive new Focus. Well, more expensive all right :sick:
Except the Probe was Japanese (Mazda) technology.
Japanese or German, at least the Focus is not domestic (read modern-day Pinto, such as the Mustang) :P
Do we know the Focus will be reliable already? Has this car already been sold as is in EU for a few years?
The Mazdaspeed3 is the other alternative for me, and I do love the car but I couldn't stomach the grinning vomitous front end of that thing staring at me each morning when I walk toward the garage.
If you love the car, you could back in instead. Their rear end is very handsome
It is a sight though, and they carried that theme look through a number of their other vehicles too. It does make one wonder; what were they thinking?
Sam
Beats the domestic front ends anything from Chrysler to Chevy to Ford Edge/Fusion... Maybe Mazda's laughing at them!
In other words, the folks at Ford are idiots, with zero engineering smarts? I don't think so. They knew exactly what they were doing: "If you want rear seat room, come buy a Fusion!"
Sam
Sales people say what they are told to say, not what the sales mamanger knows.
I will fix my Dodhe Neon before buying a new small cor!
Why?
1. Supply of Japanese imports has been slightly constrained due to natural disaster, or at least there is the perception of this happening. Supply and demand...perceived (or real) supply shortage, higher prices.
2. Relatively high fuel prices. Fuel efficient cars become hot on the market. Less sense of urgency on the sellers part means less aggressive pricing for the buyer.
3. Season. We were always a little busier during spring and summer than we were in winter. November and December were slow, due to people worried about holiday expenditures, etc. Try to buy a new car during slower times, more haggling power.
4. New vehicle introductions. A lot of really good little efficient cars have just recently had refresh or redesigns hit the market. Cruze, Focus, Elantra, Civic, etc. Never buy a car when it is new, dealer stock is limited, and demand is high. Prices are at their highest, and financing deals typically lowest. You should wait until inventories have built up and the initial demand has slowed down. Better leverage for negotiations. When the new shine of the product launch has died down, you'll do better.
If you could do it, it would probably be smart to wait until late fall to buy.
There might be the occasional deal, like for instance Mazda will probably blow out the old M3s since SkyNet (SkyActiv) is coming out soon. As long as you don't mind getting the old, less efficient car, it might be a buying opportunity soon.
As far as the Focus goes, I wouldn't mind picking one up, but this would be a poor time to do so. Very little negotiating power on the part of the buyer.
But again, did your parents even need to use child seats back then? I don't believe child seats became required by law until the late 70s through mid 80s. I know my dad and mom, aunt and uncle would cram themselves and two toddlers on lap, until their old beetle and go roadtripping back in the day. That certainly wouldn't fly today.
Someone mentioned above about Europeans needing kid's seats and such, and don't they have the same issue. I lived in Munich 7 years and yes they have the same issue, but its mitigated by the fact that most don't expect the car to be a 5 star hotel lobby. Plus in my experience if a German kid kicks the back of his parent's seat more than inadvertently he/she will be promptly and properly disciplined so it doesn't happen again - something many parents in the USA need to learn.
Now if that's the only issue, I'm fine with that. I've got no problem with forcing my kids to be content with less room. But physically not being able to use a child seat / booster seat-- that's a whole other issue.
While I suspect your comment is a bit tongue-in-cheek, the fact remains that unless an adult can sit comfortably in the back seat (i.e. without their knee caps drilling into the back of the front seat) of any given car when the front seat is set for another adult, then the leg room is too limited for my requirements.
Long story short, there is a 3.1" difference in overall legroom between the 2011 Mazda3 and the 2012 Focus, and that is the difference between knee caps being embedded in the back of the front seat and being able to sit comfortably.
The Focus will have to ride much more smoothly and have less road noise or else people will buy the Mazda3 when it comes out with the more efficient engine unless they want all the technology in the Focus. I think many people would prefer the simple buttons in the Mazda3 to the MyFord touch.
So this was intentional? A conspiracy?
I thought I was trying to help Ford to justify why there's no rear leg room -- Only cars that are not good enough to satisfy the driver need to satisfy back-seat drivers (literally) at this price range. When the new roomy Corolla came out about 9 years ago, I was quite shocked & wondering who needs a 4-cyl Camry any more... But there was a catch -- The Corolla's roomy back seat was uncomfortably shaped while the steering wheel was too far away for most drivers.
Again, trying to compare the new Focus to the Elantra, etc. is not making sense at all. A "good steering feel & ride comfort" BMW & a bus may both cost about the same, but that's where the similarity ends :P
You would say the Civic you had probably was close? That's not saying much good about the new Focus' electric steering!
'09 Civic Si:
"That steering drew unanimous scorn¡Xagain. In the past, unkind words such as ¡§video game¡¨ have been uttered in anger to describe the Si¡¦s steering, but in all honesty, the most modern of those games¡¦ wheels probably work better...The steering shortcomings put a serious damper on the fun meter, and they sap driver confidence... Steering keeps secrets from the driver."
& to answer your question about the next Civic...
"Our biggest gripe though, especially for the Si, is that the engineers have also managed to dial out what little road feel through the steering that the car had to begin with. Driver¡¦s may be able to sense what¡¦s happening underneath the Si via the suspension, but don¡¦t expect much communication from this new tiller."
No wonder Honda is now providing big 2.4 displacement hoping to save the new Civic's [non-permissible content removed].
You think the amount of rear leg room in the Focus was an accident? As if Ford spent years developing this car, and then they review the finished product and say, "Wait a minute, look at this! The rear seat room is a lot less than we designed!!" That doesn't seem like a realistic scenario to me.
Again, trying to compare the new Focus to the Elantra, etc. is not making sense at all.
Quick, you'd better alert all the automotive writers out there! They're comparing the Focus to the Elantra!! They must have all taken leave of their senses to do such a thing, eh?
The car is suppose to be a shortened Mondeo/S80, so it's not suppose to be that short. I remember the version I sat in over a year ago actually had a little more rear stretch-out leg room than in the new Mazda3, then the version at the LA Autoshow totally changed. So I believe that this is just the U.S.-spec trying to score higher in the crash tests.
In Europe's comparsion,
the current Golf...
"Sit behind the driver, and there¡¦s barely any less space than in its longer rivals, with generous rear legroom and the most headroom on test."
& the new Focus...
"occupants in the rear get marginally more leg and shoulder room than they¡¦ll find in the Golf."
& despite having no rear leg-room issues, the new Euro-spec Focus (w/ sport suspension) still has a tough time beating the current Golf for overall score.
How come no body is comparing the new Focus to the Golf here? How about asking our HOST to create a new thread "new Focus w/o sport suspension vs the soft-riding Golf 2.5"? I can't wait to collect the results!
And this attempt by Ford to score higher in crash tests was accidental, or do you think just maybe Ford made a conscious decision to do that?
Ford is very lucky VW chose this year to de-content the Jetta. Or it would eat the Focus' lunch. Handling and rear-leg room. What a concept. Even the old Jetta had more rear leg room than the new Focus. And the Golf has much more usable leg room than the Focus hatch.
Keep in mind that had VW not decontented the car, it would likely have been priced significantly higher than an average Focus. The Focus I drove was a smidge under $18k. You would probably not have seen a Jetta anywhere in that price league if they hadn't decontented/repositioned the car.
This being said, I saw a Focus hatch on the lot when I was there for right around $28k. A nice car, but I have to question spending $28k on a Focus, no matter how good, in the US at least. Talk about a depreciation hit when you go to trade or sell that car. The market for a nearly $30k Focus has got to be pretty limited. I'd say anything over low $20's would really be testing the limits of what Americans are going to pay for a car like this. Some folks will pay for the perceived cachet of driving a Jetta, etc. Some of them will buy a $28k Jetta. A $28k Focus, no matter how good, will be a tough sell. The public perception of what a Focus is worth isn't remotely in the $28k range, I don't think.
A VW Golf is really my perfect car in theory. I've owned VW Golfs from 1981 models through the MK4 series, all four generations. I have not owned a MK5 Rabbit/Golf, but have driven them, and owned a MK5 Jetta.
My big problem with the current Golf is two-fold:
First, you can't get a stick shift with the four door. Stupid. If I can buy a 4-door stick GTI, should be able to get a Golf the same way. Major minus to me.
Second, and more importantly, I find it really, really tough to justify buying a new car the size of a Golf these days with such crummy MPG. You're barely cracking 30 highway with a 4 door Golf automatic 2.5. That stinks. Real world MPG is going to be in the 25 range much of the time. I can buy an Elantra, Civic, Focus, etc that gets far better. Yeah, I know, you can get a diesel Golf. I don't want one. This, by the way, is a major downfall of the current Mazda3, as well, but Mazda is handling this if I'm not mistaken, soon.
The Focus hatch suddenly looks way more attractive to this long time VW owner. Likely low to mid 30's average MPG, close to 40 highway, and just as fun to drive as the Golf.
The Golf has a signifcantly nicer interior, and probably a little more usable rear seat. What was decent fuel economy 5 years ago to me has changed these days, though. When you can get a SkyActiv M3 hatch or Focus hatch with nearly 40 mpg on gasoline, I would think the life of the VW Golf in the US would get really tough.
& people still think a Golf can be worth up to $40k?
That's the whole point. This new Euro Ford should not be named Ford Focus in America, where the original lemon already ruined its reputation. Almost a decade ago, the Focus here had an expensive stability-control option nobody bothered with. Ditto the HID projector headlights, etc. Then people whined about decontenting for the U.S.-spec Focus.
Call this superb-dynamic Euro-design car a FWD Jaguar, Aston Martin, etc., then no one will complain about the rear leg room. Oops, too late, Ford already sold these nameplates...
I don't think that is the case. The Focus SEs I saw a week ago didn't have much in the way of equipment and listed for $21-22k. I doubt a similarly-equipped Jetta (non-decontented) would be more than that, based on Golf 4-door prices. A Golf 4-door with moonroof is about the same price as the Focus SE hatch with moonroof that I saw. And a basic Golf 2-door starts at under $19k including destination... very close to that stripped Focus you drove. Based on my inspection of the SE, I'd rather have the Golf if they are in the same price range.
I wouldn't pay $28k for any compact car... unless maybe it came from Bavaria.
And, there is a lot of buzz about the Titanium edition. If Honda can offer loaded Civics with leather for mid $20K, why not Ford? And no one is forcing people to only buy top of the line.
It's not the early 90's where Escorts were all $10499. Remember inflation still exists, so if don't like new car MSRP's, buy used.
And what's the fuss about Focus' reat seat room? This isn't the full sized segment. Checked back seat at Auto Show and it's a compact, get a Taurus or minivan if carrying a family.
Only 2 inches? Maybe, if you're only measuring the knee room.
Despite Golf's narrow rear seating, my slim 5"11" frame can stretch out my legs all the way (yes, both front & back) comfortably when sitting on these high chairs. The new Focus' back seat feels like obsolete.
First, you can't get a stick shift with the four door...
The Focus stick has rear doors, but when will you be using them? LOL
Which car would you rather have? A 2-dr car w/ an useful back seat? Or a 4-dr car w/ an useless back seat?
Aren't you glad that after the recent major facelift, the current Golf 2-dr has added height adjustment for the front passenger seat, which can be raised so you can freely stretch out your legs? Only the discontinuation of optional rear A/C vents is a disadvantage for the 2-dr Golf. Besides, have you ever thought about how enjoyable it is to sit in the back of the 2-dr Golf having unobstructed panoramic peripheral view through the one-piece side glass, along w/ great ride comfort? & which other 2-dr cars got comfy seating in the back?
Stop being a cheapskate. Which other German import will actually end up costing you less $ overall than the reliable 5-cyl Golf?
The only reason I don't own one is b/c its electric steering provides too little feel, so I ended up collecting a manual-steering noisy Mk1 Jetta coupe instead...
Exactly, especially w/ that expensive price tag & expensively built multi-link rear supension in order to optimize the ride/handling compromise not unlike the Mercedes C-Class. Therefore, the rear seating of a "classy" C class shouldn't feel like inside of a penalty box, either! :P
Me thinks your comments are a bit disingenuous. Why? Because there are plenty of cars in class which do offer enough rear seat room to park adults, the Jetta and the Mazda3 chief among them.
The German engineered new Focus does have something in common -- a useless back seat, but that where the similarity ends!
A nice car, but I have to question spending $28k on a Focus, no matter how good, in the US at least.
Since Europe never had a Pinto, it is OK to sell the new Focus at premium price over there I guess.
W/o AC or a CD player...I can't remember the last time I had even been in a car that was just an AM/FM radio, or without AC for that matter. Even Honda has included AC on the DX since 2006 at least.
As has been pointed out, the base Golf is a completely different animal than the Jetta sedan.
(eg. Near mint 1997 Escort wagon with 22,000 miles for $4200.00. Not sexy. Incredibly cheap transport. We now spend our money visiting the Amalfi coast of Positano Italy and eating\drinking the worlds cuisine. Our cup is full)
I say all that to say this. She flat out loves this car. I'm gonna get her one. Yea, the back seat ain't much. We both agreed we would't be sitting back there. lol We are convinced the grandbabies car seat will fit just fine though.
I haven't seen her feel this strongly about a car since her late 80's convertable Mustang. (5.0 without the "wings and stuff" Just like the Highway Patrol drove, but topless, she said)
Anyways, I was impressed with how well done the whole package was. And with fuel prices suddenly remenicient of those in Italy too, I am stunned you can get this kind of economy in a car that offers so much ELECTIVE upscale options. Thank you Ford. I do believe you finally got it!!
I think we will go the SEL with 301A package. Seems like the sweet spot. (for us) All the gizmos that make you forget you are in a C class, short of leather. And still just tickling 23K
Friends and family will be shocked the 2 old fogies bought a brand new car. We don't do that. Goes against our philosophy. It's that nice of a car. Gonna see if we can get 40mpg crossing Texas while listening to our fav tunes from the 80's on that marvelous 10 speaker Sony.
2 problems though.......
First, the ones currently showing up are holding their value so well that they hardly could be considered a steal. Of course this is very good news if you are the purchaser of a new Jetta TDI!
Second, unfortunately, the early new TDI's (post 2006 models) are not exactly earning a reputation of high reliability? Some are having serious issues. (TDI forums are great too) There are signs VWA may be getting a handle on the bigger issues with the latest release. But it will take time to know for sure.
Admittedly the new Focus is likely healing her wounds of dissapointment in not being as excited about a used TDI as she once was. Combine that with 3 different Ford escorts she has had great luck with over the past 30 years, the Ford might be easier for her to trust. (she loves cars. She is too funny)
(I am a Ford Super Duty Redneck. The whole family is. Have been for years. But we have ventured outside the Blue Oval on a few Infinities and Toyotas)
And finally, that Focus that she likes STICKERS at 23K. Likely can be had for closer to 21. Frankly, it was much more FUN equipped so nicely than a 21K Fusion or Accord. And her sister has a loaded Civic that cost even more that she finds uninspiring.
Regardless, I love it when something gets her that jazzed. She is pretty unflappable. The new Focus tickled her fancy. Thank you Ford. You make this easier for me.
Sonata limited: 28.5K
Focus Titanium /w Premium package (leather, etc), parking tech, and nav: 26.75K
So a price difference of around 2k.
Pros of the focus:
Rain sensing whipers
Everything is voice command
Traffic, weather, etc deliveried via voice command
Pandora + Sticher integration
Vehicle health reports
Hatchback (utility)
Paralell parks itself
Sonata pluses:
Bigger back seat
That big, buck toothed grin on the Mazda!!
FWIW, while I much prefer the looks of the Focus over the Mazda3, the fact remains that the Mazda is a far better thought out car (or at least will be when the new SkyActiv engines and transmissions debut). If I had to choose between the two there's little doubt in my mind I'd choose the Mazda in spite of how good the Focus looks.
Nah - looks like they just gave it a mouthguard!!
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2012-mazda3-0/#4074350
That big dumb looking M3 grill looks so...dumb (must be PC here...). They could have had a cool looking car, instead it looks like the lovable idiot (think cletus from the simpsons).
There's something i don't trust about a big permanent smile...
The Focus design looks much more harmonious.
The above said, considering how much less the 2011 Mazda3 costs versus the 2012 Focus (as close to apples to apples as one can get), you can buy a bunch of gas with the difference. I suspect on a cost per mile basis, the two are pretty comparable. That of course will change when SkyActiv becomes a reality.
What really annoys me about all of this is that I was so bent on getting a new Focus (even through Ford discriminates against those of us whom prefer manual transmissions), even to the point of trading in my prefectly good 2009; then I got into the front driver's seat, sit to my liking and then shoehorned my way into the left rear seat. That killed the deal right there.
People expect the Focus to be an inexpensive noisy boom box w/ adult-size rear leg room. The new Focus has none of the above. So therefore should be renamed in order not to confuse consumers.
But Ford is afraid to call it the Ford Probe coupe b/c it's got rear doors? Come on, this is the 21th Century. Coupes can have rear doors. Just check out the more cramped-&-expensive versions of the Mercedes E-class & VW Passat sedans -- the CLS & CC, respectively. & what about the RX-8 sports car?
Do you know that the more expensive CC version of the Passat actually costs less to lease than its roomier sedan version? B/c the more-attractive CC has better resale value due more buyers waiting for it.
Comparing the Sonata to the new roomy Jetta makes more sense.
That's a good question. Is the Mazda3 noisier especially when cruising on the fwy?
About 20 yrs ago, I was comparing the Mazda Protege to its Ford-verision Escort/Tracer, which are also available w/ the Mazda 1.8 DOHC. I really prefer the styling of the Tracer sedan, but I ended up w/ the made-in-Japan Protege for quality reason. Especially when comparing to Escort's std smooth/comfy set up that glides over bumps, the Mazda's suspension tuning has quick rebound which bounces the whole car right afterward just as high as each of the bump it just soaked up. But the solution was to try out different aftermarket shock absorbers & ended up w/ Monroe & Gabriel solving the problem.
Today, Gabriels are too hard. But I'm pretty sure Monroe will solve Mazda3's quick nervous rebound motion. So far, the early Mazda3's are available w/ Monroe shocks.
I prefer the exterior styling of the Rabbit/GTI V over the Golf/GTI VI, but I'm kind of annoyed by the MkV's inside door handle located so far aft for the driver. Ditto the new Focus. Like the old Focus, the new Mazda3 wins in this little detail, just like every '90-91 Protege (1, 2)
Is the Mazda a bit noisy at freeway speeds? Yes, but tolerably so, and as I understand it, the Gen 2 Mazda3 is much improved in that department.