I agree that toyota builds a superior product. I've only put gas and oil - and brake pads in both my camry and 4runner. However rust is taking it's toll. My camry I replaced with a '00 bonneville and have had no problems after two years. Needed bigger car and saved 7,000 over an Avalon. Now looking to replace the 4 runner and 45000 for a Sequoia (that's all I've seen on local lots) vs 30,000, after discounts, for a Tahoe/Yukon seems like an easy choice. I'm willing to put up with some trips to the service dept to save well over 10,000. I don't think it really costs toyota that much more to build their vehicles. I feel they are trying to take advantage of their loyal customers.
My Sequoia listed for $45,371.00, I paid 40,260.00. The Yukons and Tahoes I looked at were right there in price. The 03 Expedition was more and the Envoy XL was $40,000.00. I do not see where Toyota is taking advantage. The Toyota has much higher resale!!! So in the life of the vehicle the Toyota is probably cheaper to buy. You already know it is more more reliable.
I've read up on the Suburban, Expedition, Sequoia , Escalde etc. Is the Surburban piston slap issue a real issue or a group of unlucky consumers ? I checked and their is serious complaints across the board on all these SUV's , what am i to believe? Any advice ?
Correction Suburbans torque rate is 325@4000rpm & Seqouia is 315@3400 , the weight difference is right at 253lbs ,roughly one fat guy. I think they are right about equal .
What serious complaints have you read about the Sequoia? Just wondering, because my reading of the GM boards tells me that they have serious problems while the Sequoia board mainly has inconviences.
If you need the size or towing capacity of a Suburban, then you need a Suburban. The Sequoia can't compete in those respects.
If you want a quality built, highly dependable truck, then you go with the Sequoia. GM can't compete in those respects.
Just my observations after owning several GM trucks and one Toyota truck.
Yes - the repair cost is only for items not covered by the warranty.
Go take a look for yourself - it shows all the details - including insurance, interest & taxes
The thing that is a little bit of a shock - total cost per mile is $.66 for the Sub /$.69 for the Toy - not the $.03 difference - but I never really calculated the total cost per mile - Oh well can't take it with you!
I checked the "Problems & Solutions" on the Sequoia , just skimming but I came across a few on Piston Slap issues with their V8 , and major A/C problems ... I have owned 1st & 2nd generation 4runners, trucks, loved them , 2 camrys wonderful , taurus crap ,saturn crap, and a dodge ram 4x4 loved it . I have a family of four ,a 21ft fishing boat and I'm 6'2" ...Toyota is too small and too expensive. I know several GM owners who have had very few problems with their silverados and suburban . This piston slap thing is new to me , I'm planning on buying used in november (2000 model). I'm with you on the toyota dependability/warranty thing , but I think I need bigger and cheaper . UNLESS I can get a 2001 Sequoia for around 26K ??? Set me straight !
Actually, the "piston slap" on the Sequoia has been determined to be the fuel injectors. They like to make noise when it's cold outside until the engine warms up.
The best I can say is that the GM boards are ripe with MAJOR problems. The transmissions in these trucks seem to just about fall out onto the road. My neighbor lost his at 75k. He said GM gave him a voucher for $2k on his next GM purchase. He's bought several trucks from the same dealer.
As for the A/C problems, I haven't had a problem but others have. Certainly not a fun thing to have happen but it beats the heck out of the tranny problems with the GMs.
I don't know about a 2001 for 26k. But if you find one you won't have to worry about buying it used. It is a Toyota.
Have you looked at the Ford products? A buddy of mine got a great deal on a 4WD F-150 PU a couple of months ago. He had bought a used K1500 in December and had lots of problems. The Ford dealer gave him more than he paid for it and sold the F-150 below invoice to him. Of course, that's his story and I have no way of verifying it. I can only take his word.
I have a work order for replacement of a short block that states piston slap. I was originally told it was injectors. I did not buy that crazy story and had to force the issue.
I went to the Toyota dealer and they started talking about it compared to a Suburban. The sales guy brought ,me over to an article posted on the board. It was a comparison between the Sequoia, Suburban and the Expedition. I was confused and asked why Suburban and not Tahoe? He explained that the Tahoe was smaller than the Sequoia. I guess if you are looking for a certain size (bigger than Tahoe)and do not want to go down in size that makes sense.
I wanted to get the Limited Sequoia but ended up with a Suburban. I couldn't pass up an LT Sub ($42,000 sticker) for $33,000. Best I could do on a $43,000 Sequoia was $39,500.
GM Supplier Discount $5000, $2000 rebate and $2003 GM card. (Had $500 on card and GM added $1503 to make it $2003 in GM card discount)
I know Toyota makes a very good product but feel it is a little over priced!
The Suburbans are a bargain right now....but you have to wonder how they sell'em so cheap? They ain't in the business to lose money on these things so they are still making something...so why is their cost so low??
I agree there are several underlying causes for price differences. I personally think the difference is in engineering and its associated cost to implement better engineered product.
It has now been proven that quality vehicles can be assembled in America. American car builders can screw together a car as good, if not better than any other country's builders.....when a car suffers a premature failure of a component...it is almost always due to inferior engineering or design of a part.
A few years ago I saw an article showing the profit auto makers were making on Cars, trucks and SUV's. Profits from SUV's were more than double. They were averaging profit of like $10,000 per SUV. Maybe GM is willing to sacrifice some of that profit to keep plants going and sales up.
I believe the story of high profit. I remember when Ford came out with the explorer. It was very reasonably priced the first year or two. Then the following year, due to popularity, it's price increased by about 30% and kept going from there. That is why everyone jumped on the SUV bandwagon. Popular vehicle with high profit margin!
I just purchased a Denali XL (previuosly owned an '01 'Burb). While it is probably true that Sequoia's retain a higher percentage of their sticker price, this may be less true as a % of price paid (which is all that is relevant). When you can get $11k plus off sticker for a GMC / Chev, the value retention off the lot is less than 80% of sticker, since that is all you have to pay. But over the years, this number does not depreciate any faster than a Toyota. In fact, probably less. When you can get a totally decked out Denali XL for $41K, it is really hard to justify a Sequoia (less room, less engine/power, fewer amenities...)
I guess we could throw options and prices around all day, but I got a wonderfully equipped Sequoia SR5 2WD with a bunch of options and got out of the dealership at $34,500. I then installed a DVD/VCR entertainment system myself for around $1200. http://www.tundrasolutions.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&- amp;ppuser=5564&thumb=1 I simply couldn't imagine getting anything nicer in this class of vehicle and there's no way I'm throwing $40K at anything. I certainly don't need 4WD and the 4.7 liter is incredibly smooth compared to the competition. Plenty powerful too. I also put a premium on reliability and that's why the domestics were never considered.
I bought one of the first '01 Sequoia's that came out. Sticker was near $40k (I think $39,400). I paid $35,900 + TT&L.
I kept that vehicle exactly two years and traded it with 19,998 miles on the odometer. I received $30,450 on trade for an '03 Seq. I paid just above invoice for the new one so there was no game on the trade.
Hello my name is Peter, from stockholm sweden. Here it´s very hard to find a 00-03 Yukon XL or Suburban or Sequoia (Sec - not one in sweden). And the few that have been imported are redicoulusly expensive. So i might as well do all the work by myself (instead of letting a dealer make a fortune on me.) My question is: I need help to find a searchengine where i can search for cars on the eastcoast in the US. I´ve been looking a bit at www.autotrader.com but i would appriaciate if any of you guys could recommend another one. I have a contact in New Jersey that will take care of the shipping and so on, therefor i would like to find one in that aera. The car i´m looking for is a Yukon XL Denali, say 2002-2004. Or should i go for just a Yukon XL or Suburban? What is really the differens exept for the exteriör? Or shouls i go for the Toyota? We don´t haul things, just need room for me (6´6) wife and one year old kid, and often go for skiing with lots of laguage.
I read with some interest the back and forth on quality of the Sequoia vs. the Suburban. We just traded our 2000 Expedition 4x4 Eddie Bauer for a 2003 Suburban LT Autoride. In terms of quality, we never had any material problems with the Expedition after 70,000 miles - the only thing that ever went wrong was that the driver's heated seat quit heating.
However, we are expecting our fourth child in October, and quite frankly there was no choice to be made - the Suburban is the only vehicle out there (absent a full size van or the semi-like Excursion that I understand is exiting production - yuck) that can comfortably accomodate 6 people and their stuff (strollers, luggage, etc.). We've only had the Burb for a few weeks, so difficult to comment on longevity, but I am EXTREMELY impressed with the build quality. This truck is quiet, smooth and tight. No rattles, no squeeks. Also, my inlaws have a 1999 Suburban and a 2000 Suburban and have had no trouble with either.
I actually came from a "Toyota family" - my father worked in the service department of a Toyota dealership all my life and I was indoctrinated with Toyota's quality superiority over American products. While there still may be a very small "quality gap", there is no question in my mind that the Suburban is an extremely refined automobile and that American quality has risen dramatically in the last 15 years, while Japanese quality has been pretty stagnant to even dipping in certain instances.
But again, at the end of the day, the Suburban (along with its Yukon XL and Escalade ESV counterparts) occupies a place of its own in terms of room for the big family. The Sequoia, Expedition/Navigator, and Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade just aren't in the same class with their dinky little cargo space behind the third row.
I agree, I have a Tahoe and it's great until you need to use the third row and you have cargo. I have three children, my wife and sometimes a nanny. We always have to leave our Siberian Husky behind since there is no cargo space behind the third seat. I use an umbrella stroller because the comfortable expensive stroller for my son doesn't fit behind the third seat. So, before buying the Toyota Seq, take your whole family and some cargo and test it out. Yes, most of the time you don't need this space, but don't you hate that one time you need it and you don't have it.
Downside, Toyota is still higher quality than Chevy/GMC. I don't care what JD Powers or anyone else says.
Peter, buy a Volvo XC90. It should last forever. About me, I lost the hope that my 240 DL wagon would ever give up.
For any american car you won't have neither parts nor knowledgeable mechanics. It would be a financial nightmare for you. Also you won't be able to use it for extended periods of time (when broken).
Did you multiply the European gas price by the Suburban gas consumption ? Take it easy ...
Had the deal wrapped up yesterday w/ the GM dealer in San Diego- 3k below invoice (incl rebate) on a 1sc pkg/safety,security/sun sound/tow. All picked out and everything. Then on the way, we stopped by Toyota just to see "what we were missing". Turned out to be a lot and the got a 2004 Limited for $500 over MSRP (about 500 less than Edmunds TVM price). The quality, the fact the rear bench is theater type seating, and the new instrument/console trim is awesome, and the fitment of the panels not to mention the SMOOTH running engine were deal makers. We had to drive over the the GM dealer and break the bad news. Turned out I got this Limited for the same price as the Yukon, less the great 3k rebate. But as my wife said, "You'll dump 3k in upgrading those ugly wheels on the yukon in a week". She was right, the new 17" Sequoia wheels are similar in appearance to the M5 wheels on the BMW it will live next to. Happy New Year everybody!
Just took a 300 mile roadtrip in the new Sequoia Limited. Here's a few impressions versus the 1998 Yukon we are unloading-
1. Sequioa didn't even break a sweat climbing a mild grade w/ 40kt headwinds. Yukon used to grunt and groan as though it was going to split a nut.
2. Sequoia tracks straight and true in serious winds. Yukon was not nearly as stable, but this could be tire related (pirelli scopions on the Yukon vs 17" wheels/tires on Seq).
3. Ride in Sequoia is better (again, tire related?)
4. Stereo in 40k$ Sequioa sux. Will truly miss the JL package in Yukon.
5. I couldn't find a rattle or creak in the Sequioa, no matter how hard I tried. Don't have to go far in the Yukon to hear something creaking...
6. Third seat in Sequioa keeps 3yr old far enough away that he can't wack the back of my seat when he wants to attempt to intimidate the old man...
The Sequoia can weave thru traffic with the ease of a sedan- the Yukon always felt like it was pulling a trailer and didn't want to get pushed. Totally satisfied.
we are considering trading our suburban in for a sequoia because they have an center shoulder belt. We have 3 young kids and would like to do more carpooling, but are limited to the 4 seats in the suburban with shoulder belts. I hate to give up the extra room of the suburban. Does anyone know if there are aftermarket options for converting the seatbelts in the middle positions to shoulder belts? Or, with regard to the sequoia, is there enough room foer a family of 5, strollers, grogeries, hockey equipment, etc. Anyone owning one care to comment on this? Thanks
Plenty of room, my friend. It's only 15 inches shorter than the Suburban. I have three kids, 13, 12 and 20 mos (w/overly huge car seat). Even with the third row left in place it can be folded or flipped forward. With them in place for sitting we can still fit all the strollers, etc with room to spare. Also, you can split the third row too, so if you have an extra person and still need cargo, that works also. Think of it as a compromise between a Tahoe and a Suburban.
about a week ago took my first test drive of the Sequoia at a local dealer... the salesman tagged along with us.. not nice.. I guess he didn't think my wife's '01 Subn LT 4x4 was worth the collateral.. anyway.. I have a Z71 '01 of my own..
I drove it.. thought I was back in my old '97 Expedition.. sure didn't impress me to the point that the price difference vs Subn/Tahoe was worth it.. was aiming to get the Sequoia Limited for my wife.. maybe my aims were set too high.. I'm sure the Sequoia will be quality having owned a number of Toyotas in the past but not to the point of 3-4K difference in price..
one thing I noted.. gotta remember the salesman is in the back seat on this test drive.. I noticed the tranny 'banging' into second gear upon startup from a stop.. now I'm not talking a fast startup.. just a non-chalant pickup.. same 2-3rd gear 'clank like the Chevys... not all the time.. but noticed it 3 or 4 times on this test...
the interior sure didn't impress us.. thought it would be a lot different and upscale.. to me it wasn't.. and they sure do like to 'knock' Chevy and GM.. but I guess that's salesman boloney...really didn't care..
when he wanted 4-5% over invoice I laughed.. the truck seemed outdated... a fine quality though.. maybe.. only long term would tell .. so far thru the internet, best prices I got was $1K over invoice.. with a few more the same as his.. yikes..
looks like we just got used to a 'bigger truck'.. the Sequoia is off our list.. we were disappointed..
The 04 Sub has a shoulder belt in the 2nd row center seat. We have an 02 Sub and it does not. I just got back from the Chevy dealer. Plan on getting a loaded 04 Sub this month. Also, the LATCH system in the 04 Sub is real easy to use.
After a recent trip to the Auto Show in Motion... I had a chance to drive a Seq right next to a Burb. These vehicles are pounded on during this show. People gun the engine and slam on the brakes. Everyone punches buttons, opens and slams doors. From what I saw and felt, the Seq did not hold up. It rattled, missing buttons, doors did not seem to fit right. The Suburban did not rattle, Had more miles on it than the Seq and it's interior was in better condition. It was obvious that it held up better. Ride quality, I felt like I was in a very capable truck in the burb and in the seq, it felt like a street racer that wanted to be a truck. Someone mentioned in earlier posts that the GM boards are full of gripes and problems. One needs to consider the sheer number of owners of GM versus Toyota Suv's. The ratio of complaints to owners are not as lopsided as some would like to make everyone believe. There is also a fundamental difference in the type of persons owning GM versus Toyota's. GM owners are generally very vocal about complaints. (almost making a mountain out of a molehill) Toyota owners are not vocal and chalk things up to "inconviences" (the proverbial ostrich with his head in the sand). Then there is issues with the various service departments. I have had first hand experiences on both sides of the fence. Toyota... Oil sludge, thats your problem. It takes an act of god for Toyota to admit that there is a problem. GM. Initial responses can be of denial, yet I have seen them go half on the cost of a major component to satisfy a customer. I have never seen that out of a Toyota dealer. Then we can talk ablout TSB's Oh wait, Toyota doesn't have TSB's, that would be a sign of weaknes that is not allowed in their culture. (Yes Toyota does have TSB's) Toyota does fight tooth and nail to keep a potential TSB or recall from ever seeing the light of day. (god forbid someone would see that HUMANS make these vehicles).
GM, walk into a service department with the proper TSB in hand and GM will be happy to perform the repair. (make sure it applies to your situation)
I can hear the arguments already... "If GM has soo many tsb's they must be producing inferior cars" or anything else along those lines. Just remember this, How many of those TSB are mere Service manual updates, Labor operation code updates, Body repair proceedures or upgrades to the vehicles computer code?
I have owned both Toyota and GM, My next vehicle will be a GM in light of the recent trip to the autoshow and experience with friends Toyota's and GM vehicles.
I'm not sure where you come up with some of your assertions and I really don't want to go point for point. But, I'll tell you that Sequoia owners are very picky, most Toyota owners are. People who buy Toyota's do so because they want a quality superior product. When a Toyota has a quality issue (regardless how small) their owners tend to be very vocal. I find GM owners much more accepting of minor issues like rattles, etc but that's just my observation.
As for TSB's, Toyota issues TSB's pretty regularly (I have access to all of them). GM has more because their lines are more diverse and expansive. But overall, Toyota is much better in initial and long-term quality.
You said "I have owned both Toyota and GM, My next vehicle will be a GM in light of the recent trip to the autoshow and experience with friends Toyota's and GM vehicles."
Good luck with your choice. Both the Sequoia and the Suburban are a good choice. For me, reliability plays an important part in my decision making. Here's how I see it. That extra length in the Burb is just enough to cause parking and getting into tighter spaces more than an inconvenience for me. Fit and finish in the Burb is not as good as in Toyota Sequoia. Better reliability goes also to Toyota Sequoia. In the current issue of Consumer Reports regarding reliability you will find many Toyota's including the Toyota Sequoia. What you won't find, however, in that list of CR good bets is the Suburban. I for one would put more stock in Consumer's interpretation of these facts than what two vehicles looked like to someone at an Auto Show after some hard miles. Also,the Suburban with 13 miles per gallon overall in their tests should be considered somewhat dismal by today's standards. Just my 2 cents.
of vehicles from GM vs. Toyota in the Consumer Reports Auto issue with regards to reliability. Black dots bad, red dots good! This is simple data reported back from owners. Oh, that's right the Toyota owners have their head in the sand. Maybe we could look at the average number of problems reported in the 1yr, 3 yr and 5 yr. chart. Yep, still in the sand....please.
I can't believe that when I have been next to numerous Toyotas at a traffic light or anyplace else and listened to the ticking in their motors. I have heard the piston slap that affects the mentioned GM motors and the ticking in Toyota motors is louder and more prevalent.
Consumer reports, again let us look at the demographics as well as personality profiles. Oh wait they do not look at that.
Typical responses I have expected, have come up from the posts I have seen. Reason and rational arguments have not been presented. Sort of a napoleonic response I guess. I am done. Have fun everyone.
Why do people pay more to buy a Toyota? BECAUSE THEY WANT A HIGHER QUALITY VEHICLE! Usually people who pay a premium expect their monies worth. Piston slap in Toyota's has been minimal compared to the huge problem with the GM's. Where GM also had increased oil consumption and other related issues, the Toyota's did not and just slapped when cold. Toyota is not perfect by any means, but to say GM is just as good isn't being very honest.
For those of you who are on the fence and can't decide between the Sequoia and the Suburban here is some factual data to help with your decision making. Side curtain airbags available in Sequoia. No side curtain airbags are available in Suburban. NHTS crash tests indicated Sequoia to be a safer vehicle with 5 stars for Driver and 5 stars for passenger. Suburban on the other hand lists 4 Stars for Driver and 3 stars for passenger. Sequoia has 5 year 60,000 mile power train warranty while Suburban has three year 36,000 mile warranty. JD Power and Associates rated Sequoia third among full size sport utility vehicles in initial quality. The Suburban isn't in the top three. Sequoia has better steering response and tighter handling because it has rack and pinion steering instead of recurculating ball type steering in the Suburban. Sequoia turning circle is 42.3' while Suburban is 44.5' And as mentioned earlier, the Sequoia is one foot 3.4 inches shorter making it easier to handle, maneuver and park in tight spaces.
because I needed to carry 8 people, 4 adults and 3/5/9/12 year old kids, all with shoulder belts (one child safety seat in 3rd row middle with a tether) and luggage on vacation and have all that inside the vehicle. I also needed to stay as close to $30,000 as possible. We paid just under $32,000 for a new 2003 YXL last November using GM and dealer incentives. We did get cloth (my choice in any case), bucket front seats, Bose stereo, etc. So it is far from spartan. Try doing all that in a Sequoia.
If your needs are different, your pockets deeper, your luck and/or shopping skills worse, or biases more entrenched then you may well choose differently. Enjoy what you drive.
Well, my unscientific observation seems to reveal that there are more NBS Suburbans than Sequoias out on the roads...and wasn't the Tahoe the best-selling full-sized SUV--in terms of units sold--last year or the year before? Surely the GM SUVs can't be all that bad if there are that many out there...
You're right they are good trucks, if it wasn't for the 80's interior I would have bought one. However, they are not at the same level of quality as the Toyota. Not yet anyway.
If there was any doubt about what the public likes and reliability issues that were independently put together just read the latest issue of Consumer Reports!!
I've always had a hard time placing any credence in "lifestyle" magazines that can't even get the engine size correct.
"And although the 4.6-liter V-8 is buttery, and shifts from the four-speed automatic are as clean as any in all of truckdom, the motor only knocks out 240hp and 315 ft.-lbs. of torque. "
Comments
Drive a mile, walk the rest !
I heard that GM has another limited time offer !
Buy any GM product and not only get 0% financing for 60 months; act now and receive a free tow truck.
If you need the size or towing capacity of a Suburban, then you need a Suburban. The Sequoia can't compete in those respects.
If you want a quality built, highly dependable truck, then you go with the Sequoia. GM can't compete in those respects.
Just my observations after owning several GM trucks and one Toyota truck.
Some interesting info
The resale of the Surburban (after 5 years) is higher than the Toy - even though the original purchase price is lower.
Overall cost of Surburban (over 5 years and 15K miles per year) is about $2,500 less.
Go take a look for yourself - it shows all the details - including insurance, interest & taxes
The thing that is a little bit of a shock - total cost per mile is $.66 for the Sub /$.69 for the Toy - not the $.03 difference - but I never really calculated the total cost per mile - Oh well can't take it with you!
The best I can say is that the GM boards are ripe with MAJOR problems. The transmissions in these trucks seem to just about fall out onto the road. My neighbor lost his at 75k. He said GM gave him a voucher for $2k on his next GM purchase. He's bought several trucks from the same dealer.
As for the A/C problems, I haven't had a problem but others have. Certainly not a fun thing to have happen but it beats the heck out of the tranny problems with the GMs.
I don't know about a 2001 for 26k. But if you find one you won't have to worry about buying it used. It is a Toyota.
Have you looked at the Ford products? A buddy of mine got a great deal on a 4WD F-150 PU a couple of months ago. He had bought a used K1500 in December and had lots of problems. The Ford dealer gave him more than he paid for it and sold the F-150 below invoice to him. Of course, that's his story and I have no way of verifying it. I can only take his word.
Good luck whatever you do.
I wanted to get the Limited Sequoia but ended up with a Suburban. I couldn't pass up an LT Sub ($42,000 sticker) for $33,000. Best I could do on a $43,000 Sequoia was $39,500.
GM Supplier Discount $5000, $2000 rebate and $2003 GM card. (Had $500 on card and GM added $1503 to make it $2003 in GM card discount)
I know Toyota makes a very good product but feel it is a little over priced!
Maybe they haven't done major changes lately so they've depreciated the cost of the tooling and can afford to sell them cheaper.
How can Toyota sell essentially the same car in Canada for thousands less than the US model?
Ah, the mysteries of life :-)
Steve, Host
It has now been proven that quality vehicles can be assembled in America. American car builders can screw together a car as good, if not better than any other country's builders.....when a car suffers a premature failure of a component...it is almost always due to inferior engineering or design of a part.
I believe the story of high profit. I remember when Ford came out with the explorer. It was very reasonably priced the first year or two. Then the following year, due to popularity, it's price increased by about 30% and kept going from there. That is why everyone jumped on the SUV bandwagon. Popular vehicle with high profit margin!
Just one person's opinion / experience.
I simply couldn't imagine getting anything nicer in this class of vehicle and there's no way I'm throwing $40K at anything. I certainly don't need 4WD and the 4.7 liter is incredibly smooth compared to the competition. Plenty powerful too. I also put a premium on reliability and that's why the domestics were never considered.
I bought one of the first '01 Sequoia's that came out. Sticker was near $40k (I think $39,400). I paid $35,900 + TT&L.
I kept that vehicle exactly two years and traded it with 19,998 miles on the odometer. I received $30,450 on trade for an '03 Seq. I paid just above invoice for the new one so there was no game on the trade.
Basically lost 15% of value over two years.
Here it´s very hard to find a 00-03 Yukon XL or Suburban or Sequoia (Sec - not one in sweden). And the few that have been imported are redicoulusly expensive. So i might as well do all the work by myself (instead of letting a dealer make a fortune on me.)
My question is: I need help to find a searchengine where i can search for cars on the eastcoast in the US. I´ve been looking a bit at www.autotrader.com but i would appriaciate if any of you guys could recommend another one.
I have a contact in New Jersey that will take care of the shipping and so on, therefor i would like to find one in that aera.
The car i´m looking for is a Yukon XL Denali, say 2002-2004. Or should i go for just a Yukon XL or Suburban? What is really the differens exept for the exteriör?
Or shouls i go for the Toyota?
We don´t haul things, just need room for me (6´6) wife and one year old kid, and often go for skiing with lots of laguage.
Thanks
Peter, stockholm
However, we are expecting our fourth child in October, and quite frankly there was no choice to be made - the Suburban is the only vehicle out there (absent a full size van or the semi-like Excursion that I understand is exiting production - yuck) that can comfortably accomodate 6 people and their stuff (strollers, luggage, etc.). We've only had the Burb for a few weeks, so difficult to comment on longevity, but I am EXTREMELY impressed with the build quality. This truck is quiet, smooth and tight. No rattles, no squeeks. Also, my inlaws have a 1999 Suburban and a 2000 Suburban and have had no trouble with either.
I actually came from a "Toyota family" - my father worked in the service department of a Toyota dealership all my life and I was indoctrinated with Toyota's quality superiority over American products. While there still may be a very small "quality gap", there is no question in my mind that the Suburban is an extremely refined automobile and that American quality has risen dramatically in the last 15 years, while Japanese quality has been pretty stagnant to even dipping in certain instances.
But again, at the end of the day, the Suburban (along with its Yukon XL and Escalade ESV counterparts) occupies a place of its own in terms of room for the big family. The Sequoia, Expedition/Navigator, and Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade just aren't in the same class with their dinky little cargo space behind the third row.
Downside, Toyota is still higher quality than Chevy/GMC. I don't care what JD Powers or anyone else says.
For any american car you won't have neither parts nor knowledgeable mechanics. It would be a financial nightmare for you. Also you won't be able to use it for extended periods of time (when broken).
Did you multiply the European gas price by the Suburban gas consumption ? Take it easy ...
Did you mean to say "over invoice?" Without even looking, I'm guessing that Edmund's True Market Value is not more than MSRP! ;-)
1. Sequioa didn't even break a sweat climbing a mild grade w/ 40kt headwinds. Yukon used to grunt and groan as though it was going to split a nut.
2. Sequoia tracks straight and true in serious winds. Yukon was not nearly as stable, but this could be tire related (pirelli scopions on the Yukon vs 17" wheels/tires on Seq).
3. Ride in Sequoia is better (again, tire related?)
4. Stereo in 40k$ Sequioa sux. Will truly miss the JL package in Yukon.
5. I couldn't find a rattle or creak in the Sequioa, no matter how hard I tried. Don't have to go far in the Yukon to hear something creaking...
6. Third seat in Sequioa keeps 3yr old far enough away that he can't wack the back of my seat when he wants to attempt to intimidate the old man...
The Sequoia can weave thru traffic with the ease of a sedan- the Yukon always felt like it was pulling a trailer and didn't want to get pushed. Totally satisfied.
I drove it.. thought I was back in my old '97 Expedition.. sure didn't impress me to the point that the price difference vs Subn/Tahoe was worth it.. was aiming to get the Sequoia Limited for my wife.. maybe my aims were set too high.. I'm sure the Sequoia will be quality having owned a number of Toyotas in the past but not to the point of 3-4K difference in price..
one thing I noted.. gotta remember the salesman is in the back seat on this test drive.. I noticed the tranny 'banging' into second gear upon startup from a stop.. now I'm not talking a fast startup.. just a non-chalant pickup.. same 2-3rd gear 'clank like the Chevys... not all the time.. but noticed it 3 or 4 times on this test...
the interior sure didn't impress us.. thought it would be a lot different and upscale.. to me it wasn't.. and they sure do like to 'knock' Chevy and GM.. but I guess that's salesman boloney...really didn't care..
when he wanted 4-5% over invoice I laughed.. the truck seemed outdated... a fine quality though.. maybe.. only long term would tell .. so far thru the internet, best prices I got was $1K over invoice.. with a few more the same as his.. yikes..
looks like we just got used to a 'bigger truck'..
the Sequoia is off our list.. we were disappointed..
After a recent trip to the Auto Show in Motion...
I had a chance to drive a Seq right next to a Burb.
These vehicles are pounded on during this show. People gun the engine and slam on the brakes. Everyone punches buttons, opens and slams doors.
From what I saw and felt, the Seq did not hold up. It rattled, missing buttons, doors did not seem to fit right. The Suburban did not rattle, Had more miles on it than the Seq and it's interior was in better condition. It was obvious that it held up better.
Ride quality, I felt like I was in a very capable truck in the burb and in the seq, it felt like a street racer that wanted to be a truck.
Someone mentioned in earlier posts that the GM boards are full of gripes and problems.
One needs to consider the sheer number of owners of GM versus Toyota Suv's. The ratio of complaints to owners are not as lopsided as some would like to make everyone believe.
There is also a fundamental difference in the type of persons owning GM versus Toyota's. GM owners are generally very vocal about complaints. (almost making a mountain out of a molehill) Toyota owners are not vocal and chalk things up to "inconviences" (the proverbial ostrich with his head in the sand).
Then there is issues with the various service departments. I have had first hand experiences on both sides of the fence.
Toyota... Oil sludge, thats your problem. It takes an act of god for Toyota to admit that there is a problem.
GM. Initial responses can be of denial, yet I have seen them go half on the cost of a major component to satisfy a customer. I have never seen that out of a Toyota dealer.
Then we can talk ablout TSB's
Oh wait, Toyota doesn't have TSB's, that would be a sign of weaknes that is not allowed in their culture. (Yes Toyota does have TSB's) Toyota does fight tooth and nail to keep a potential TSB or recall from ever seeing the light of day. (god forbid someone would see that HUMANS make these vehicles).
GM, walk into a service department with the proper TSB in hand and GM will be happy to perform the repair. (make sure it applies to your situation)
I can hear the arguments already... "If GM has soo many tsb's they must be producing inferior cars"
or anything else along those lines. Just remember this, How many of those TSB are mere Service manual updates, Labor operation code updates, Body repair proceedures or upgrades to the vehicles computer code?
I have owned both Toyota and GM, My next vehicle will be a GM in light of the recent trip to the autoshow and experience with friends Toyota's and GM vehicles.
As for TSB's, Toyota issues TSB's pretty regularly (I have access to all of them). GM has more because their lines are more diverse and expansive. But overall, Toyota is much better in initial and long-term quality.
Good luck with your choice. Both the Sequoia and the Suburban are a good choice. For me, reliability plays an important part in my decision making. Here's how I see it. That extra length in the Burb is just enough to cause parking and getting into tighter spaces more than an inconvenience for me. Fit and finish in the Burb is not as good as in Toyota Sequoia. Better reliability goes also to Toyota Sequoia. In the current issue of Consumer Reports regarding reliability you will find many Toyota's including the Toyota Sequoia. What you won't find, however, in that list of CR good bets is the Suburban. I for one would put more stock in Consumer's interpretation of these facts than what two vehicles looked like to someone at an Auto Show after some hard miles. Also,the Suburban with 13 miles per gallon overall in their tests should be considered somewhat dismal by today's standards. Just my 2 cents.
I can't believe that when I have been next to numerous Toyotas at a traffic light or anyplace else and listened to the ticking in their motors. I have heard the piston slap that affects the mentioned GM motors and the ticking in Toyota motors is louder and more prevalent.
Consumer reports, again let us look at the demographics as well as personality profiles.
Oh wait they do not look at that.
Typical responses I have expected, have come up from the posts I have seen. Reason and rational arguments have not been presented. Sort of a napoleonic response I guess. I am done. Have fun everyone.
Side curtain airbags available in Sequoia.
No side curtain airbags are available in Suburban. NHTS crash tests indicated Sequoia to be a safer vehicle with 5 stars for Driver and 5 stars for passenger. Suburban on the other hand lists 4 Stars for Driver and 3 stars for passenger. Sequoia has 5 year 60,000 mile power train warranty while Suburban has three year 36,000 mile warranty. JD Power and Associates rated Sequoia third among full size sport utility vehicles in initial quality. The Suburban isn't in the top three. Sequoia has better steering response and tighter handling because it has rack and pinion steering instead of recurculating ball type steering in the Suburban. Sequoia turning circle is 42.3' while Suburban is 44.5' And as mentioned earlier, the Sequoia is one foot 3.4 inches shorter making it easier to handle, maneuver and park in tight spaces.
Or are you just responding to one or two messages?
And that is percieved higher quality...
If your needs are different, your pockets deeper, your luck and/or shopping skills worse, or biases more entrenched then you may well choose differently. Enjoy what you drive.
Sequoia Test Drive (Forbes)
Steve, Host
"And although the 4.6-liter V-8 is buttery, and shifts from the four-speed automatic are as clean as any in all of truckdom, the motor only knocks out 240hp and 315 ft.-lbs. of torque. "