If I were an auto manufacturer, my New Year's resolution would be...

Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092

Can't think of anything on my own, so looking forward to your thoughts on this.


  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    ...my resolution would be improve reliability, improve reliability more, then equal and even surpass Lexus and Acura on reliability, while retaining current attributes.

    My wife's A4 has 57,000 miles. It's been okay since the warranty expired earlier this year, but I'm apprehensive.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...I would bring out a full-size RWD/AWD luxury car in the vein of the classic 1961-65 Continental!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...I'd bring back the cute girl from "Pomplamoose" for the holiday commercials!

    Hyundai Holidays
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,825
    edited December 2011
    I'd produce an affordable compact RWD sedan/coupe combo with a turbo 4-cyl. Think E46 3-series with newer engine technology, starting at $22k. RWD Jetta anyone? RX8 without a rotary? Compact Genesis? All seems pretty easy to me.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Great idea. Maybe the '13 Cadillac ATS will be that car.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,825
    No way Caddy is going to start a car at $22k, though.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    It'll start just under or over 30K (probably over), but the next Camaro reportedly will share the same platform.
  • ehaaseehaase Member Posts: 328
    A poster on another board said that Ford has cancelled plans for a FWD replacement for the MKS. There is hope for a RWD Lincoln sedan in the last half of this decade.
  • drvettedrvette Member Posts: 99
    Some 25+ years back, Smokey Yunick, Engine Designer and Diesel mechanic designed and perfected a radical new engine.

    A IC engine with NO Valves.
    He used an Pontiac Iron-Duke 151 cu/in 4-cyl with one piston removed, now a 3-cyl.

    From a solid block of aluminum, he installed two solid bars, about 2.5" dia or so.
    In those bars he cut large slots, the bars rotated within the top of the cylinder.

    One bar delivered intake/fuel mix the other exhausted the spent mix.

    Big Deal you say ?
    Yup, the limiting factor on combustion temperatures right now is red-hot glowing valves, causing detonation and or pre-ignition.

    The engine had a belt driven supercharger to get it running, then switched over to a turbocharger for mixture feed.

    All this eliminates the drag of valve guides, rocker arms, lifter drag, and the biggie, valve spring resistance.

    There's more, and the most important part.

    He used "air heater baskets" like a power plant uses to recover heat from the exhaust.
    This he fed back into the intake at a whopping 375F !

    So now we have a roughly 113 cu/in engine.
    On the dyno it produced over 300 hp at the flywheel
    The EPA emissions were on the floor, tiny even by today's standards
    The fuel consumption was minimal, almost all the heat was recirculated into the motor, he stated the engine could be run in most climates with NO Radiator.
    Production Costs were low.
    Lifetime was long and trouble free
    He had nearly a million miles on the engine with the Dyno time and ON Road time combined.

    About "78~
    GM then Ford and then Chrysler all marveled at this little engine that could.
    Giddy with excitement, they blew the parking lot. Later, No Calls, No Letters, nothing.

    15+ or so years go by, again the same Big-3 sent Mechanical Engrs and Electrical Engrs
    to review his data, drive the car, insert emission test gear into the pipe, observe Dyno runs, inspect 100k mi+ power-plants disassembled and gain perspective on the little engine.

    The wear was minimal, his data was conclusive, the production costs were profitable, The EPA would be pleased, the owners and manufacturers happy. .
    With thoughts of personal greatness in mind, they each went back to corporate headquarters.

    Never to be heard from again..

    Today, the magazine article cannot be found in any reference material anywhere on the web, nor the engine. The patent office shows NO records of it ever having existed, I suppose this changes hands when the patent is sold..

    During his like Smokey never sold that engine, you can find minimal info on his "hot-air" engine which came prior to the valve-less design..

    Oh, well, I just guess that the Big-3 decided a long life engine that got INCREDIBLE Gas Mileage wasn't worth the effort..

    Or,, was it Big-Oil that bought the patent rights after Smokey died ?

    Much like 84 year old Stan Ovshinsky, who designed the Nicl

    Ovshinsky entrusted GM that his NiMH Vehicle Battery system would be manufactured and used in electric vehicles such as the successor to the EV-1

    Ovshinsky sold Ovonics Battery company and the patent rights to GM who formed "GM Ovonics"
    Gm then sold "GM Ovonics" to Texaco Oil
    Texaco was bought by Chevron. Chevron / owner of "Ovonics" then filed a patent infringement suit against Toyota's battery supplier, Panasonic, that ultimately succeeded in restricting the use of its large format NiMH batteries.

    There's more to the story, here's the bottom Line.

    If it burns too little Crude Oil, it WILL be bought for ANY PRICE,, any price, money or ....

    in the cse of the EV-1 and future electric ccars
    A- the Lead acid battery was too heavy and weak
    B- the LiOn battery is much too expensive and prone to fire
    C- The NiMH battery is inexpensive, not very heavy, not prone to fire and POWERFUL

    The GM EV-1
    Problem; Lead-Acid Battery
    Solution; NiMh Large Format Battery, now owned by;
    1st Texaco Ovonics Battery Systems
    Next, Cobasys, a 50/50 joint venture between Chevron/Texaco and Ovonics

    The patent infringments go on and on.

    Stan Ovshinsky interview with The Economist
    "I think we at ECD made a mistake of having a joint venture with an oil company, frankly speaking. And I think it's not a good idea to go into business with somebody whose strategies would put you out of business, rather than building the business"

    GM promised that any EV-1 vehicles returned to General Motors would be completely recycled or donated to Universities for study.
    Instead, they CRUSHED every one except for 2 or 3 which had the AC inverters removed and now sit in a museum.

    GM EV-1

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batteri- es

    Rusty Wrench
    aka DrVette
  • drvettedrvette Member Posts: 99
    edited December 2011
    Since the "real" MPG engines and methods are bought and stored, let's use some existing hardware. This is all Junk we presently have, in production, with the bugs worked out.

    1- All engines shall have One TBI [Throttle Body Injector per Cylinder
    [IF it's good enough for Formula 1, put it on the road.

    2 - All engines TBI manifolds shall be "tuned" like the Cross Ram Chrysler Wedge Motor
    this builds torque at low rpm, and allows time for the mixture to completely atomize.

    3 - All engines shall have ONE Oxygen Sensor per Cylinder, what's this crap putting a SINGLE O2 sensor on a multi-cylinder engine and getting an "average" air-fuel ratio ?

    4 - Each Cylinder shall have independent timing & Air/Fuel mix controlled by the O2 sensor & ECM/PCM

    5. All engines shall have a"Heat-Riser" valve for back pressure control. at low engine speeds, increased "back-pressure" builds torque,higher RPM and increased throttle demand, they open as necessary, ECM/PCM Controlled .

    6 - All engines shall have insulation on the exhaust manifold to the catalytic converter for faster "Flame-On"

    7. Catalytic converters shall be installed as close to the head as possible, minimizing the "Flame-on" time.

    8 - All engines shall have variable valve timing.

    9 - Engines shall be equipped with an Oil Debris monitor to keep the VVT operative.

    10 - All cars shall be dimpled, like a Golf Ball to decrease drag, see Myth-busters for stats, Clean Car=26.4, 1084 golf ball dimples=29.6 mpg.

    11 - All cars shall be equipped with shaped front air dams to reduce the drag [Cd] and to route airflow away from the front tires.

    12 - All cars shall be made with under-body panels and side skirts to reduce drag.

    13 - All cars shall be made with grill shutters like old diesel trucks and the Cruze ECO

    14 - All cars will use hot air from the exhaust manifold instead of outside air, when ambient temps allow.

    15 - Engines should be made with thicker and Sodium Filled Valves to allow for higher combustion temperatures and run at lower RPM's.

    16 - Outside mirrors should be replaced with mini camera's and inside monitors to reduce drag, as well as "back-up" camera's and waring tones for objects behind the vehicle.

    17 - Overall vehicle weight should be reduced, optional fancy components replaced with stronger A-Pillars and B-Pillars

    18 - Ethanol / Alcohol fuel additives shall be replaced by other chemicals that do NOT require farmer subsidy, giving Monsanto a stronger foot hold on the economy.

    19. Diesel Automobile EPA restrictions shall be relaxed to allow the burning of B-100 Bio-Diesel as long as it comes from sources that are NOT subsidized by the US Govt.
    If the EPA will NOT relax the "too-much, too-soon" standards on Auto diesel engines,
    then a in-tank monitor shall be installed to inform the ECM/PCM of the percentage of Bio-Diesel and perform DPF Burn-Off procedure's accordingly.

    20 - The Last, [aren't you glad] TO THE BIG-3 and Everyone Making Cars.
    We do NOT give a Hoot about 300 Horsepower, 400hp, etc
    Except "performance cars of course.

    We DO care about, torque to get to road speed and mostly, MILES-PER-GALLON

    And quit making those crap transmissions on FWD cars, Please..

    Rusty Wrench
    aka DrVette
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2011
    Makes for a nice conspiracy theory but Yunick did a lot of work on the Chevy small block, so I suspect there's more to the story than the oil companies simply buying him off.

    Plus it sounds like it there were concerns that it have been a rolling bomb, or at less not technically feasible to mass produce. (mpgresearch.com)

    I think I'll try to find a hail damaged new car when I go shopping next. Save a few bucks on gas. :shades:
  • conanrulesconanrules Member Posts: 16
    Fire all union workers. Build plant in right to work states only. Design and build the cars in the US. Without the union intervention and lazy, over paid workers quality will improve and prices will come down opening up competition and creating careers and jobs again in the USA. Unions destroy America.
  • conanrulesconanrules Member Posts: 16
    Build it in a non unionized plant and they can.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    If auto manufacturers didn't treat their workers like garbage back in the day, there never would've been a need for a union in the first place.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited January 2012
    That's true, but I think the type of treatment you're referring to occurred in the '20s and '30s. From what I know the auto companies treated their employees better after WWII. Unlike in Japan (don't know about Germany), there was always an adversrial relationship between the UAW and management. Fortunately, that's less true in recent years.
  • conanrulesconanrules Member Posts: 16
    There is no need for unions today. Workers have legal rights, ever heard of OSHA for one? Unions create lazy, uneducated, people that feel they are entitled to everything without working for it. People need to learn ambition and pride through accomplishments and not being left back by getting handouts from a lobbyist group that meets with the biggest union thug on a weekly basis, Obama. This liberal mentality that everything should be given to you is a disease and has killed the American economy.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,006
    Aha, I knew it would come down to this, low credibility bitter political babble, and from a source that apparently loves cars made in South Korea, by unionized workers in a domestic auto industry that has been subsidized by their federal government to the nth degree. So much for hard work and not having things given to you, eh.

    And to the thread question, two words: add lightness.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Thank you. Anyone else with a resolution or two?

    (Posters can take the political talk to the Obama discussion or the UAW one).
  • drvettedrvette Member Posts: 99
    edited January 2012
    "nice conspiracy theory"
    "I suspect there's more to the story than the oil companies simply buying him off"

    Quite obviously the Big-3 would Not accept Smokey's contract concerning this camless / valveless-engine, that is until his demise, now it's missing in action.
    [Much like the 15 layer Optical HD, POOF, it's gone,I suspect in M1-Abrams and F-22's ] the "Good-ol-Boys"[Vaishyas] at the top will only allow us "the ""untouchables, to have what is Forced upon them to give us

    I've spent over 5 decades in close proximity or working with Both University presidents and upper echelon personnel.

    Private sector is focused on profit, damn the people, damn the environment.

    Military sector is focused on:
    "In the interest of National Security, the health and well-being any single citizen or group of citizens is of no concern. [SSDD]

    If anyone has noticed the news, CAFE Regulations, not increased significantly since 1983.
    Obama has signed into effect new CAFE regs, We will have to wait and see if the next President, if Not Obama, nixes them.

    One reason, Big-Oil and Big-Auto are Buddy-Buddy, scratch my back and I'll scratch yours..

    The responses to so many threads from non-ME, or non-Mechanical Technician types makes me think of the "Stepford-Wives" or perhaps the proverbial Ostrich with his head in the sand.

    "Accept what they give us to drive, ask NO Questions"

    Go along with Montsanto's GM Products
    Think that Ethanol in gasoline is the best alternative to MTBE
    BELIEVE the lies regarding Bio Diesel.
    Bio*Diesel causes Less hunger in the world than the usage of Corn for Ethanol, check the production rates below.

    How can we "Reduce Foreign Dependence on oil if Ethanol uses 3.5-4~BTU's per BTU of Alcohol/Ethanol produced ?
    That and the fact Ethanol has 76K BTU/GL, while Gasoline has 115K BTU/GL

    Shall we not forget the fuel consumption INCREASE that Ethanol causes.
    Both items works well for Big Oil don't you think?

    MTBE was a flop, we know that,
    There are Other and cheaper was to oxygenate fuel, naphthalene is one of the many.

    Why did the EPA jump on diesel autos, demanding a particulate count equal to gasoline cars?
    The fact that for each BTU used producing Bio Diesel = 4~BTU's Fuel.
    Big-Oil surely won't like that, and we MUST keep them happy.

    This argument reminds me of the Tobacco CEO's testifying to Congress.
    Each one saying "Tobacco is NOT Addictive"

    Someone in power is saying "Using 4-BTU's to manufacture One-BTU of Ethanol is Good For America"
    [or good for their "Golden Parachutes]

    Which side do YOU believe.
    BTW, do you Know who owns the News Corporations ?

    If you want news that is Not influenced by Big-Wall-Street types, check out
    FSTV and LinkTV

    Rusty Wrench
    aka DrVette
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2012
    I found all kinds of stuff about Smokey's engine in a brief net search, including some patent links. It was a nice idea but it go boom. :D

    Occam's razor.

    Don't forget that Smokey had quite the reputation of being a cheater, as well as a master mechanic.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    No more bailouts. If we can't make it on our own, we deserve to fail & should not be supported by taxpayers. Win or dissolve. ;)
  • drvettedrvette Member Posts: 99
    edited January 2012
    I find offense regarding your statement about Smokey Yunick being a cheater, as though cheating was his "way-of-life, removing any credibility to his patents etc .
    IN Racing, ALL competitors "bend" the rules AND Yes cheat as much as possible..

    Remember Dale Earnhardt and his illegal rear springs, allowing the car to drop down out of the slip-stream and pull away like he had an extra 50hp.

    And #24, Jeff Gordon, got caught with Ceramic Brake Rotors when one broke.

    #48 Jimmy Johnson with his illegal steering

    The list of NASCAR infractions is endless.

    Drag-Racing, Pro-Stock's most successful FAMILY, the Gliddens,,
    Rusty Glidden, son of Bob Glidden, stated ON-CAMERA,
    "They never found our Nitrous System, it was in the Hood Scoop"
    Instantly FIRED by ol Dad Bob.
    Team Glidden never dominated Pro-Stock again.

    NASCAR has always had a wink-and-nod relationship with cheaters in its ranks. Last year, NASCAR handed down 62 penalties for technical infractions at its 36 races.
    Many of those were considered inadvertent "mistakes"
    That's NASCARese for cheating.

    Historically, the rule of this road is that if you're not cheating you're not trying. .
    ALL RACE TEAMS "Bend" the Rules "Cheat" whatever the term you like.
    It is the Nature of the Beast, in all forms of motor racing.

    Do NOT single out the late Smokey Yunick as a "cheater" in General.
    In his dealings at his Diesel Engine shop and Chevrolet Engine design site in Daytona Beach Fla, Smokey was reputed as a honorable and trustworthy businessman..

    IMHO, he's a developer who should be in the ranks of the following,

    Felix Wankel
    Rudolph Diesel
    Nikolaus Otto [who "used' Lenoir's idea, so why is it called the Otto Cycle]
    Jean Joseph Etienne Lenoir.

    If not for Corporate Americas Hold on our bank accts, a Yunick engine would occupy your vehicle's engine compartment right now.

    Regarding Smokey's "Boom", all inventors have incidents,
    Edison had almost 10,000 failed experiments with the storage battery,
    Marconi was credited for the Radio, this was corrected in 1943, patent rights to Nikola Tesla.

    In the case of Nikola Tesla, he had no will, the US Govt confiscated all his documents, one of the most odd, his "Earthquake Machine
    link title
    Tesla, unlike Edison, was a true scientist.
    link title

    Nikola Tesla, Smokey Yunkick and others, worked long and hard discovering methods, inventions, and patents that will never see the light of day.
    Many purchased and locked up by Corporate USA.
    Or confiscated, "in the interest of National Security"

    Many inventors of fuel-saving devices have "vanished" one in the Western USA, of the many others to mysteriously disappear, was Rudolph Diesel.
    His engine was designed and intended to run on a version of Bio-Diesel, not Crude-Oil refined Diesel.

    To the Big-3 and Big-Oil, Smokey Yunick was of the most dangerous men in the world.

    Rusty Wrench
    aka DrVette
  • drvettedrvette Member Posts: 99
    Re; a Full Size RWD vehicle.

    The 1991-1995 Caprice with the 305 TBI engine, had a "Real-World MPG" of truly astonishing rates.

    Our 91, would get in combined driving, some 24-26 mpg, far better than my Dad's cousins cars from Japan with FWD, 6-cyl engines, far less room and comfort.

    OK, I admit the Caprice would pull a 0.4g on the skid pad, but this is not the point.

    A 4-week trip to Hollywood Fla and 2 full tanks consumed, yielded 30.~ and 31.2 mpg, from a "Full-Frame" RWD vehicle with a Cast Iron Headed and Block vehicle.

    Why did GM kill the Roadmaster, Caprice and the other "B"bodies.
    Simple, the assembly line was the same to make pickup trucks.
    A p/u truck's bottom line MARKUP is much more than the lowly automobiles.

    This and the fact of the lack of TSB's and a bullet-proof driveline in the B Body units.

    Check AutoTrader, these "old" 91-95 cars still command a premium compared to the FWD siblings with the typical FWD Transmission woes, not to mention the lack of durability of the FWD's powerplant.
  • drvettedrvette Member Posts: 99
    edited January 2012
    I totally agree, compact, simple, easy to service, easy to build.

    A platform for the masses, to replace the "Smart-for-two" and other Micro Cars,
    bring back the Datsun 1200, with modern TBI and computer controls, plus multiple overdrive manual transmissions.

    http://jalopnik.com/389398/1971-datsun-1200link title

    I worked at Datsun/Nissan for 4.5 yrs as a wrench, these vehicles were trouble free, ran perfect and wrecked well, for the day that is.

    My 1972 could get 48mpg on the highway "Without" Hypermiling !
    In 1973, the Datsun 1200 was the car with the highest fuel economy sold in the USA. [lower compression than 72]

    The 1200 had a
    "Push-Rod" engine,
    a Cast Iron Block
    aluminum head.
    No cam chain or belt to fail.

    It had NO engine vibration, slick and smooth, would pull to 7000rpm and had good torque off-the-line.

    They looked almost like the Mazda RX-2 with the Rotary Engine, this made the Mazda feel like it had 400 hp !

    The replacement for the 1200 was the B-210, an overweight, sluggish, pig of a car.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2012
    IN Racing, ALL competitors "bend" the rules AND Yes cheat as much as possible

    That was Smokey's excuse. Doesn't make it right. And it casts a big shadow about his claims about his miracle engine.

    My favorite cheat of his was putting in the correct size gas tank in one of his cars, and then making a ~11' long, 2" tubing size gas line to the engine so he could stuff another 5 gallons of gas in the car. :D

    (like the way I edited the post title? ;) )
  • monti2000monti2000 Member Posts: 13
    Hello Rusty Wrench,

    You seem to have alot of information here. I have worked in the oil industry, and I sold directly to all major industrial sectors including the automotive industry & the related feeder industries.

    Do the oil industries and the petroleum industries work hand in hand?
    Based on historical analysis of automotive design and performance - I conclude that the answer is yes.

    Don't forget what happened to delorean and his experience with GMC.
    It is worth reviewing his story.

    We should also include a 3rd party in this, and that would be government.

    The automotive and petroleum sectors are major tax collectors for governments.

    There is alot of lip service regarding customer service, but customer service has been deteriorating for many years.

    Now what I am discovering is that the automotive manufacturers are giving a lot of lip service to design, performance, and environmental considerations; however, they are simply experimenting with cutting costs and cutting quality to increase their profit margins.

    I agree with another poster here, that most cars are junk even if you go to high end brands. Engines are burning out at 20,000 km, - 70,000 km.

    Are these engines being produced in China?
  • drvettedrvette Member Posts: 99
    edited January 2012
    "Do the oil industries and the petroleum industries work hand in hand?"

    A - "ALL" of the big corporations are in each others pockets.
    IMO, the Big-Oil tells the Big-3 how to design the vehicles to operate poorly, mpg, fuel used etc.
    Vehicle designs that last "too-long" {GM's TBI for example} are soon retrofitted with designs that may not be cheaper, but most certainly wear out sooner.
    For Example, In 1994 or 93 GM replaced the 4.3L TBI with the awful CPI [Central Port Injection] which was not only problematic, but did Not meet the CARB requirements.
    So all the 4.3L GM's sold outside" Ca were called the "W" motor with the CPI.
    Inside CA, they HAD to use the "OLD" 4.3L TBI "Z" motors to meet the stringent CARB standards.

    "Delorean and his experience with GMC,

    A - Sorta like the "Tucker" automobile, the Big-3 made sure his attempt was unsuccessful.
    Don't forget Stan Ovshinsky, who designed the NiMH Vehicle Battery system. Ovshinsky entrusted GM that his NiMH Vehicle Battery system would be manufactured and used in electric vehicles such as the successor to the EV-1.
    This was the final hurdle to the true "Electric Car"
    WRONG, GM sold it to Texaco.
    Read my post no. 10 on the 1st page of this thread.
    Now we're stuck with environmentally unfriendly LiON batteries that are Way Too Expensive and Prone to Fire.

    "We should also include a 3rd party in this, and that would be government"

    A - The US is no longer a Democracy but now a Plutonomy. The Government is run by the Corporations. Ever hear of the "Revolving Door" in Washington ?
    Leaders who were 'Public servants" are instantly VP's at some large Corp and should it fall, they most surely get a "Golden Parachute"

    "automotive manufacturers are giving lip service to design, performance, and environmental considerations;
    they are simply experimenting with cutting costs and cutting quality to increase their profit margins."

    A - I cannot put my hand on it right now, but somewhere in The Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) , "corporations" are now considered as "living entities" and as such, fall under the US Constitution with regard to rights.

    A - Also, somewhere deep in the CFR, is the legal "Mandate" that corporations "primary" or First responsibility is to the stockholders.
    AFTER that, comes the responsibility to the employee, the economy and the environment.

    "Engines are burning out at 20,000 km, - 70,000 km.

    A - I've heard that some, including the Nissan Vista have short lifespan, however I cannot verify the validity of those stories.
    May be lack of proper "hot-tanking" which is the usage of high PH and high Temperature cleaner to remove machining grit and debris.
    I do know that 1988 and up GM full size trucks will easily run well over 300, 000 miles if you keep the intake gasket from leaking and change the oil.">link title

    Another issue regarding Ethanol, there are cheaper methods of inducing Oxygen agents into fuel. Ethanol is the "preferred" method by Big Oil cause it takes 3.5-4 BTU's to manufacture One BTU of Ethanol.
    Looks good to Big-Oil don't it.

    Fuel Oxygenates
    1 - MTBE - Super Nasty to the Environment, ugg
    2 - Ethanol - 4 BTU's to make 1- BTU of Ethanol, just who does that "benefit

    Ethanol makes the fuel burn cleaner but mainly in Cold Weather.
    So bring back the old style "Manifold Heat" to the intake in cold weather ?
    Thermostatically controlled.

    3. Ether
    4. Many others exist, some work, some work but have consequences, check the EU link for what they say.

    A link to the European Union on fuel additives

    Sorry for the lengthy post
    Rusty Wrench
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2012
    Big-Oil tells the Big-3 how to design the vehicles

    BP and Ashland aren't too happy with GM and their Dexos-1 requirements. They have filed comments with the FTC complaining about it. I guess only some oil companies got into GM's pockets. :)
  • drvettedrvette Member Posts: 99
    edited January 2012
    WOW, it seems like every week I find some new data that is surprising.

    I "thought' you were referring to DexCool, until I googled it.

    Here's GM's official List of
    Dexos-1 Gasoline Approved Oils
    Dexos-2 Diesel Approved Oils

    licensed GM Dexos™ products

    Quote From GM
    "Specifically designed to meet the needs of GM gasoline engines, dexos1™:

    * has improved viscometric properties, creating less friction in the engine which contributes to improved fuel economy.
    * resists aeration, which enables fuel-saving devices, such as Variable Valve Timing, to work optimally
    * offers improved oxidation and deposit-forming tendencies allowing emission systems to operate longer and optimally
    * resists degradation between oil changes, extending the time and mileage interval between oil changes"
    end quote

    I knew Ford had mandated change intervals at a frequent rate for the VVT assembly to stay free and working, GM added some "Legalese" to the wording to "help [Confuse] us

    As far as Ashland Oil and BP, "we" the untouchables will never be included in the upper echelon scum that knows who is or who isn't in "The Group"
    Maybe that BP is excluded from the "Good-ol-Boys" group due to their corp hdqrs are in the "Motherland.
    Ashland Oil is based in KY, maybe they were bought out like so many companies lately by the Chinese [j/k, but really WHO knows for sure]

    Rusty Wrench"
  • drvettedrvette Member Posts: 99
    Here's Ashland Oil's "partial" Comment;

    "Valvoline already meets all the requirements of the dexosTM2 specification with our SynPower MST 5W-30 . Valvoline began introducing oils meeting the dexosTM1 specification in October 2010

    SN and ILSAC GF-5.
    . GM is taking the unusual step of charging a very significant fee for licensing, an unwarranted cost increase to owners of GM vehicles. Valvoline has decided that we do not want to be a part of this."

    PS, this quote was edited for brevity.
    valvoline, a division of ashland inc.
    RE: GM dexos specification
  • drvettedrvette Member Posts: 99
    Duh, forgot to put the linkage in the previous post.

    [url=http://www.valvoline.com/promos/dexos.jsp]"Valvoline and the GM dexos Specification
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2012
    We're having a similar discussion over in Right To Repair - A Hot Issue or Big Problem with another auto tech; you should check it out. I think you'd enjoy Thecardoc3's point of view (certainly more than mine, lol).
  • drvettedrvette Member Posts: 99
    edited January 2012
    fintail, what else did you expect?

    Ignorance begets ignorance

    This thread begged for:

    A - Posters with NO mechanical experience or knowledge
    B - Others with the viewpoint on Labor Unions formed by watching the Evening News
    [who is owned by Corporate America, remember what happened t Dan Rather ?]
    C - Opinions of OSHA thinking they are there for protection of the workers ?
    D - Statements about the Auto Industry "Bail-Out" with absolutely NO idea of the results, "downstream" jobs lost and failed businesses and millions of workers out of a job, YES including the Mexican, Canadian and Asian workers.
    E - Commentary on the "cute girl" are a bit OT, but still in good taste, IMO.

    Rusty Wrench
  • eharri3eharri3 Member Posts: 640
    edited January 2012
    To build great cars and let the bottom line take care of itself rather than to start with the bottom line and build cars around it.

    To break the tradition that says small, inexpensive, economical vehicles cannot look interesting and be attactive.

    To stop shipping vehicles to the United States, shut down all my factories, and fire all my American workers if the media tries to create a sudden unitended accelaration controversy with one of my models just one more time.

    To save money by not designing 3 times as many cupholders into a vehicle as the number of people it can hold, and to devote all those savings to designing awesome seats.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited January 2012
    To build great cars and let the bottom line take care of itself rather than to start with the bottom line and build cars around it.

    I like that first one. Build them and they will come. Provide a good product and the profits will follow.
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