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Help Me Select a Wagon



  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    Hi Folks - Here is a new discussion that some of you may find interesting: Malibu Maxx vs VW Jetta vs Subaru Forester vs. Mazda 6.

    Thanks for your participation!

    Host of Hatchbacks & Wagons
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    That seems to be a rather odd grouping?

  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    Hi rsholland - Edmunds' Vehicle Guide says the Malibu Maxx, Subaru Forester, Taurus/Sable and VW Jetta Wagon are competing vehicles. We were getting a lot of Mazda6 posts in our Malibu Maxx discussion, which is why I created the new discussion. Come share your thoughts about them in our new discussion! ;-)

    Host of Hatchbacks & Wagons
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    I would never have included the Forester in that grouping, and would never cross-shop those other brands against the Forester; maybe the Legacy and Outback, but not the Forester.

  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    "Moving a bit beyond the aloof socialite market, and further into the family segment, Jaguar introduces its first ever station wagon, the X-Type Estate."

    Read the full story here. Also, come share your thoughts in our new 2004 Jaguar X-Type Estate discussion. Thanks for your participation! ;-)

    Host of Hatchbacks & Wagons
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    saturn LW300?
  • Good morning,
    For about the last year I have been looking for a new car. I have always owned VW Jettas and am looking for something new--not because they are a bad car, just don't want to be the smallest car on the road any longer.

    For years I have loved Volvos, especially the wagons. My husband thinks I am crazy to want a wagon since we don't have children and we are young--but can't get it out of my system.

    I have looked at the Passat and Jetta wagons, which are very decent cars, but again--still in love with the Volvo. Both VW models are cheapier then the Volvo V70, which appeals to me, but I don't want to base my decision souly on that.
    I have been researching cars, test driving, asking questions--and still can't make up my mind what I want. Any suggestions? Especially from Volvo owners. Do you love your car?

    Thanks for any insight you can provide,
  • wpbharrywpbharry Posts: 399
    The point of Revka's new discussion is not to limit the actual vehicles discussed (as long as they're wagons or "sort of" wagons). The main focus of it is the upcoming Chevy Malibu Maxx, however. Compare it to whatever you want.
  • Nothing wrong with wagons. Most SUVs are really wagons (the body) and they are very popular today.

    Volvo makes a nice vehicle. Mine was fine for about 80,000 miles before it began requiring a lot of repairs. Repairs and maintenance were somewhat expensive, but not excessive. One Volvo is enough for for me.

    There aren't many car type wagons so it should be easy to drive them all and pick the one you like the best.
  • Danielle,

    I think Volvos (apart from the <2004 Mitsubishi/ Ford V40) are great cars. However, I don't care much about their interior layout, and I like more nimble cars. For the type of money you are suggesting, I would also look at the Audi A4, S4, and A6 wagons. I would also seriously suggest the Forester XT for a fast and save 'wagon'. Or the VW W8, which can be had with a manual (if you like that) and is greatly discounted, these days.

    - D.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    You want a bigger car and you're enamored by the Volvo, so I say go for it. Look into the European delivery program, have fun while saving money.

  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    have you tried the V40? I know that it'll be redesigned, but if you don't mind you can snag a bargain on the left overs in Summer 2004, right before the V50s arrive. If the V40 doesn't appeal to you, wait for the V50 or jump up into the V70. Either way, you're still buying a decent car.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The V50 looks to be a vast improvement, so I'd at least wait to see it before diving into a V40.

  • I know there has been some discussion on this topic before, but I haven't really found answers to my questions. Basically, I'm in the market for a wagon. Safety, reliability, and comfort are important. I also want a fair amount of storage capacity, which is why I am looking at the Outback and the V70 and that's it. I like both cars, but I can't decide if the additional features in he Volvo (side curtain airbags, supposedly better seats) are worth all the extra money. I'm looking at a L.L. Bean and a loaded V70 AWD (or maybe an XC70) and the price is definitely not the same. What else is really not the same about these two cars...that really matters?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The Subaru uses an H6 engine, vs. the turbo-5 in the Volvo. Most prefer a 6, but it's your call, try both.

    Volvo gives you a 5 speed auto tranny, I believe. A little bit extra room, too. The seats are great, but big headrests blocked my visibility somewhat. Built-in child boosters are my favorite feature.

    The LL Bean has lots of features standard, which is nice. AWD, ABS, 6 cylinder power, heated two-tone leather and real wood steering wheel, metallic paint, 6CD changer, double moonroof, etc. Some of those cost extra with Volvo.

    In crash tests both have done very well. In a side impact the curtains will help Volvo earn the edge, but keep in mind the 2005 Legacy will offer them.

    Which gets to my point - my choice would be to wait for the 2005 Legacy. It'll get 250hp, side curtain air bags, more space, more luxury, basically everything you want.

    Volvo uses better materials, but Subaru has the edge in long-term reliability.

    Each has its pros and cons, drive both and see which gives you bigger grins.

  • Thanks for the advice. I'd love to wait for the '05, but I don't think I will have that luxury. My wife is expecting in January, so I'd like to get the second car as the primary means for getting to the hospital should it snow when she goes into labor. More importantly, this is also intended to be the all around family car. Our current car will not suffice and will soon be little more than a commuting car for me to get back and forth to work. I just don't think we could wait for the '05 models to become available, which is a shame. Unless they are showing up in January...

    For us, the Subaru fits because it seems like the most practical and useful family car. The Volvo seems safer and more comfortable, but the V70 just seems a little pretentious. While I'm not crazy about spending 35K or more for a stationwagon, affordability isn't really an issue.

    We are torn, but I am hoping that test driving each will make the decision easier.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Maybe April, but not January, no.

    The Legacy platform did get a "Best Pick" score from IIHS' offset crash tests, the industry's toughest.

    So Volvo doesn't quite have a patent on safety. ;-)

  • I see from your profile you have an 03 Prius. I just drove an 04 Prius today. Wow, what a difference. Much bigger inside, nice ride, very quiet, and with the hatch back design might be roomy enough too.

    If cost is not a problem, the Volvo is hard to pass on. Keep in mind the operating costs for the Volvo will probably be substantially higher if you plan on keeping the car a long time.

    For the price of the Volvo you are close to the price of several very nice SUVs. The MDX is an example and so is the Volvo XC90. Even the RX330, if you don't need a third row, isn't far away in price.

    BTW, we carry high school kids in the third row of our MDX, so an agile full size person can sit there for short rides.
  • We are about to become a two-car family, having paired ourselves down to one because we lived in the city. With a move to the suburbs and a child on the way, a larger car just seems to be a necessary thing to do. I'd love to get the '04 Prius, but having only put 12,000 on the '03, I can't justify a trade-in. And, while it is roomier, this second car really needs to be able to handle the car seats, the strollers, the luggage, and all the hauling I plan to be doing from Home Depot. I just don't see the Prius being able to handle all that stuff.

    My wife and I are dead set against buying an SUV. I've never been a fan of the way they handle, the gas mileage is poor, and I'm not convinced that they ultimately give you more room than a large stationwagon, like the Volvo. These are also the reasons that we aren't looking at minivans. I think they drive even more poorly than most SUVs. I've read a number of comparisons and reviews, many of which include both the Volvo XC70 and the MDX, and Volvo always seems to rate higher.

    I spent almost 6 years zipping around in a VW Golf, which was usually just a dream to drive. The interior was falling apart and the engine started to give us problems, but it gave the driver a load of feedback, cornered very well, and took off in a flash for a four cylinder. And, the hatchback allowed us to stuff a loveseat in the car. The Prius is obviously not the same driving experience, but it does have some similar characteristics. At this point, I just do not like driving vehicles that have a "duller" ride. Sure, I want comfort and a quiet cabin, but I still need to feel the road in order to be happy with the driving experience. So, in trying to balance my driving preferences, cost, roominess, durability, and the fact that this car will get slobbered and pooped on by our progeny and possibly pets, I keep coming back to the Outback and the Volvo wagons. If there is something else out there, I'd love to hear about it.

    I'm sure an MDX has a number of features that an Outback doesn't. I guess the fundamental issue for us is whether we need all the room of a V70/XC70 style wagon or if the Outback will be roomy enough.

    You do bring up a good point about the long term costs of the Volvo. Having never owned a Volvo, I don't know what to expect. Part of the attraction for us is that Volvos seem to last a long time. If we get a Volvo wagon, our expectation would be to keep it at least 5-7 years, but I would hope to get much more out of it. If the costs of upkeep rise dramatically towards the end of that timeframe, then it may not be worth getting into a Volvo.
  • I have another couple of suggestions that may work. I know you're against SUV's, but I'm wondering if you're open to crossovers? If so, the Nissan Murano w/ AWD might be a good choice. Based on a car platform so I would think handling would be OK, but would require a test drive. Also in that same category, the Honda Pilot and Toyota Highlander (probably not an exciting drive though). Also, what about a VW Passat 4-motion wagon? I'm thinking you're open to VW since you've had one before. Just some other ideas to think about, although the Subie & Volvo are also very good choices. Also, from what I've heard (various sources), the new Legacy could be released as early as late winter 2003, but more likely spring 2004. It would be worth the wait if that would work for you.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    RX330 is supposed to get a 3rd row, even.

    You'd be surprised, Outback LL Beans come extremely well equipped. Full-time AWD, 4 channel ABS, 2 moonroofs, heated two-tone leather, real wood steering wheel, alloy wheels, 6CD changer in dash. There's not much missing.

    Even Acura uses 3 channel ABS (except on some Type S models, like the TL and CL) and VTM-4 disables completely above 19 mph.

    You may even consider the Murano, Endeavor, Highlander, and Pilot. All are cars underneath.

  • Yeah, I seriously considered the Passat wagon variants, but decided against it in part because of my previous experience with VW. I liked the Passat we test drove a while back, but I was really disappointed at the breakdown of the interior materials in my Golf. The seats fell apart, the adjustments knobs kept breaking off, the lights on the dash would only work intermittently, the console and the components between the seats separated and never fit properly back together, etc. Maybe we just had a unique experience. I know other Golf owners who never had this happen to them. But, I also know other VW owners who have seen similar problems with their Passats and Jettas, including the newest models. And, while I might be open to giving VW one more shot at my business, my wife has basically decreed that we will not buy another VW.

    As for crossover vehicles, I have taken a look at those as well. None of them really do it for me.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Stick to your original picks, then.

    You can sometimes find a base model V70 with cloth seats. They even offer built-in booster seats for the kids. I saw one a while back for under $30k, cloth and with the non-turbo (168hp) engine. They do exist. :o)

    A similar base Outback runs just over $20 grand and has 165hp, though I'd at least step up to a cloth H6 model (about $24k). The LL Bean gives you leather and the moonroofs for about $26-27 or so.

    So a loaded Outback can be close to a base Volvo's price. Drive both and choose whether you want the features or the extra space.

  • Yeah, I seriously considered the Passat wagon variants, but decided against it in part because of my previous experience with VW. I liked the Passat we test drove a while back, but I was really disappointed at the breakdown of the interior materials in my Golf. The seats fell apart, the adjustments knobs kept breaking off, the lights on the dash would only work intermittently, the console and the components between the seats separated and never fit properly back together, etc. Maybe we just had a unique experience. I know other Golf owners who never had this happen to them. But, I also know other VW owners who have seen similar problems with their Passats and Jettas, including the newest models. And, while I might be open to giving VW one more shot at my business, my wife has basically decreed that we will not buy another VW.

    As for crossover vehicles, I have taken a look at those as well. None of them really do it for me.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Cross it off the list. If you don't feel like you can rely on it, it doesn't even matter if it's reliable or not - you will never feel at ease.

  • mikenkmikenk Posts: 281
    I sold a 94 Volvo and bought a 2001 Outback VDC. My experience with Volvo was very high cost of ownership: leaks, steering column failure, ac problems, seat wear, power seat failures, motor mounts - there was always something.

    So far (3 years) no such hint of problems with Outback. Knock on wood.

    I also will not own an SUV; I want something that looks like a car and drives like a car.

  • Like mikenk (post 439), my Volvo proved to be expensive in the long run, but it was okay for the first 70,000 miles.

    We found that as the kids grew, and school activities required car pooling, having the extra space came in handy. We are frequently one of the drivers in school activities because we have the time.

    Having the space for several bikes as well as a few kids was a big thing for elementary school. For middle school, just being able to carry kids and or projects was needed. Now, for high school, it is marching band, with space for instruments.

    Having extra length for the home project materials has come in handy many times. My old 1984 Toyota Van even held 4x8s inside with the tailgate closed and all of the seats still in place. Today's wagons can't hold a 4x8 completely inside. Interestingly, our tiny PT Cruiser can carry longer and taller objects than our MDX.

    I'm sorry you are so against an SUV. I was too, until a couple of years ago. Same reasons you state. My old Toyota Van was just slightly larger than your Prius on the outside, but could seat seven full size people and take all of their luggage at the same time. Two years ago I drove some SUVs. I like the high seating position and the utility of the station wagon body. Today, many are as quiet as a car and ride as well. Normal handling is every bit as good too. Some are even peppy to drive. A few even handle better at the extremes than many cars. Fuel economy isn't that bad either, depending on what to compare to.

    To be sure, anything will be bad fuel economy compared to your Prius. But my MDX averages essentially the same mpg as my PT Cruiser (one mpg less), which is almost exactly the same as the Jag S-Type V8 the Cruiser replaced. Unless you drive a lot of miles each year, the yearly cost for gasoline for something like an MDX compared to a XC/VC-70 should not be excessive.

    For the 5-7 years you mentioned I still feel the Volvo will be fine. It is solid, and has at least as many safety features as other wagons. Don't count on a good resale, but that could change, as it can with any car.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Actually, if you want to consider american cars the PT Cruiser now comes in a light pressure turbo model. Also, the Dodge Magnum looks interesting, and the Chrysler Pacifica.

  • Have a PT GT. Prices are very low now. My local dealer is advertising $5000 discounts from msrp. Love our PT, but resale is very poor and so is fuel economy. The PT is short on safety items and falls short in other areas as well when compared to the Subaru and Volvo.
  • I've started thinking that I'm going to look for a slightly used car. A car is just a depreciable asset, a highly useful one, but its still just going to be worth less and less. And, everyone knows that the moment you drive off the lot, the money starts flowing down the drain. So, I'm thinking maybe a 2001-2002 V70 variant. I'm not sure, but I think I can get the booster seats and the third row seats without too much trouble, plus I've heard that these options can be purchased from the dealer. Of course, I am also considering used Outback wagons. There seem to be a number of them in my area, all decked out, and with low miles. A few of them were loaners or demo cars...should I be concerned about that?

    I loved the PT Cruiser when it first came out, but I'm not excited by the styling anymore. I recognize that a Volvo isn't exactly the most exciting car on the road, but I appreciate the timeless look that Volvo wagons seem to have.

    In the end, I don't really know which direction we will go. We need to test drive a few cars, figure out if we can really get what we want in a used car, decide if the extras we might get in a Volvo are worth it, and decide if we are willing to deal with the higher cost of maintenance with the Volvo.

    Yet another issue is that I hate buying a car when it is about to be redesigned. When the new Outback comes out, our Subaru will look "old" and that drives me crazy.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Any used car is a risk, even certified, because you can't possibly know a car's history. If you have some warranty left over, that might give you piece of mind, though.

    Do drive a few, if you go to a place like CarMax they may even have both brands so you can sample them back to back.

    Buy a car you love, then a new model or whatever else won't change that.

  • ncvolncvol Posts: 196
    I'm in the same boat with you. 2 kids, two dogs, and an aversion to getting a(nother) SUV. The wagons are the obvious choice, and I've been looking at the Subaru Outback VDC, and the Saab 9-5 wagon. I've also been checking out used Mercedes E320 wagons. You are taking a risk with repairs somewhat, but it handles great and has a ton of storage room (44 cubic feet!).

    The Infiniti FX35 has also recently come up on my radar. From what I can tell, it is about the most "carlike" SUV out there, to the point where calling it an SUV seems wrong. Storage space is small, however, which is an issue I'm wrestling with.

    After researching for about the last 10 months, my best advice to you is to narrow it down to a couple that seem the best on paper, then test drive them all. There probably won't be a "perfect" choice, and you will do better bargaining if you have some options rather than being locked in on one vehicle.

    Good Luck!
  • The FX rides a bit hard for me, but it handles very well. The E320 is a nice wagon. So is a BMW 5 series wagon.

    Essentially, SUVs are wagons in body, but not in chassis. I've had several wagons through the years and found they are a good compromise between car and van. They still ride and handle like a car, but you can haul more. I've also had hatch back cars that could nearly match the utilitiy of a wagon.

    One of the reasons I have an MDX is the need to occasionally seat seven and still have the vehicle fit in my garage. I have no need for four wheel drive or off road capability. The wagons didn't have a third row in most cases and those that did were too tight. We find we also like the high seating position of the MDX along with its car like ride and car like normal handling. A side benefit has been the separate rear climate control.

    Our PT Cruiser GT has more utility than the MDX for carrying things, but can't match the people carrying of the MDX.

    I have several friends that buy only used vehicles. They make sure the cars have either a manufacturer warranty left or they purchase a warranty for the car. The one that bought a used four year old Mercedes a couple of years ago had transmission and engine problems, but these were covered by the warranty the Mercedes dealer had offered with the car. So far that is the only car out of about a dozen my friends have bought used that has needed anything major.
  • ncvolncvol Posts: 196
    My mother has an MDX and I've driven it often. A very competent vehicle that does everything well, if you need the third row seats, it's about as "sporty" as you can get. I've just never been a fan of Acura's styling, exterior or interior. Of course, that's terribly subjective, I don't think I've seen a review that didn't think highly of the MDX.
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    When we went to our second dog (pre-kids) I decided we needed to get a wagon (1 dog in a sedan or coupe is fine, 2 is not). We were lucky and bought a 1991 Volvo 940 wagon (this was in 1998) that had been owned by a Volvo mechanic whose wife wanted a big SUV.

    Once we got to two kids, we went with a minivan - but still kept the wagon. We drive it all the time. The dogs have the space in the back, kids in the middle and the drive is great.

    Unfortunately, the Volvo is now approaching rather high mileage and little problems are starting to happen - electrical mainly. We really don't want to get rid of the wagon - we love it (and having no car payments...). However, I did start test driving some wagon replacements. IMO - you won't go wrong with either the Volvo or the Subaru. For us, it will probably be a Volvo as the roof pitch in the rear allows us to put two dog crates (size 500) where the Subaru will not (just misses).

    Good luck!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That's why I love squared off backs. FWIW, the Forester might fit them, it's very square.

  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    Thanks juice, when the time comes I will check out the Forester. The dealers die when I drive in with the two big dog crates in the back wanting to see if they will fit. Measurements alone usually don't cut it.
  • I love it. Someone that actually brings what needs to fit. Common sense!

    I do something similar for back seats of vehicles. If I don't fit comfortably with the front seat where I would have it when I drive I don't want the car. It doesn't matter how well the car looks or drives.

    Looks can deceive, The trunk in our S-Type Jag looked big, and measured out the same as our Avalon's trunk in floor square inches. However, we could only get about half of what would fit in the Avalon trunk into the Jag's trunk.

    A lot of people do not test drive a vehicle under similar conditions to their normal driving. I drove an MDX about 35 miles before we decided to buy. Drove several Jags even more. Even the PT GT test drive was about 20 miles. I used to hear lemon law cases where the buyer was complaining about something that was generic to the model and would have shown up had a lengthy test drive been done instead of the short drive near the dealer a lot of dealers still use.

    My first drive in a 2004 Prius was of the short around the dealer area type. Didn't tell me anything about how the car would do under my normal driving conditions. Other dealers in the area are more accommodating.
  • hpulley4hpulley4 Posts: 591
    With wagons especially, interior room figures can be deceiving. Depending on the rear suspension design the strut towers affect what you can actually carry. In addition roof angles and rear door size and shape may intrude significantly to affect what you can carry. Cubic feet are great when you're packing pillows but not for bulky items. Only bringing a 30" TV box and trying to fit it in the back will tell you if it will really fit.

    Bring all your baby seats, strollers, high chairs, pet crates and golf/hockey bags with you for the test drive. Make sure it all fits and as you say, adjust the driver seat for yourself and then get in the back seat 'behind yourself' to make sure you're comfortable. Ask the salesperson so sit in the outside seat while you sit in the middle to see if the middle seat is worth anything or just a place for a 'permanent' fold-down armrest/cupholder.

    A 20-minute test drive often isn't enough to know if the seats are comfortable either. If you have a 45-minute commute then if you can't drive it for that long, at least sit in one for that long (bring a book if the salesperson won't let you drive it that long). GM's recent 24-hour test drives are a good idea and hopefully it will force others to follow suit.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Test fitting is just a good idea, plain and simple.

    We test drove a CR-V for my wife. She liked it, but our stroller took up the whole floor. You could stack things, I guess, in fact that's why the EPA numbers are so good.

    We bought a Legacy. While it has less measured space, we could fit the stroller with room to spare, in fact we routinely use that space to do a quick diaper change.

    The angled rear window doesn't allow it to carry boxy items, there the CR-V would be better, but we already own a Forester and it handles those jobs admirably.

    Try before you buy!

  • altair4altair4 Posts: 1,469
    Exactly what we did! We had the Outback competing against the Passat wagon. Our "measuring stick" was our stroller - it had to fit in the back sitting on its side edge when completely folded. In the Subie, it touched the glass, although the hatch would still close if you forced it a tiny bit. On the Passat, there was a little room to spare without it touching. It knocked the Outback out of the running (I wasn't going to kill the rear defroster grid). Plus my wife just didn't warm up to the interior or the the two tone plastic cladding on the exterior.

    Our "measuring stick" knocked a lot of other vehicles out of the running, including the Honda CRV (like Juice's experience).

    That's why there's a VW in our driveway now.
  • ncvolncvol Posts: 196
    Speaking of rear cargo space, I went to check out the FX35 at the Infiniti dealer tonight to see the rear space up close. Those who need a squared off back will be disappointed, but others with luggage/cargo that doesn't go higher than the back seats might like it. The dealer had gotten the cargo mat from a Lexus RX330 (with a cargo area of about 10 cubic ft more than the FX) and it laid down on the floor of the FX with room to spare. Apparently the footprint of the cargo hold is just as big in the FX as many of its competitors, although tall, bulky items probably won't make it unless you put down the 2nd row seats.

    The seating felt great, btw, can't wait to test drive one.
  • subah6subah6 Posts: 34
    I went to the Sydney motor show and have also driven the new spec Outback H6 with the 240hp motor and 5 speed sport shift auto. It is now available here in Oz. This car is a real blast to drive. Plenty of power and the sport shift gives instantanious power, no dithering between gears like the current H6 4 speed auto.

    With the new 17" rims and tyres it handles very well and steering feel is excellent.

    If anyone is considering the Outback H6 wagon and can wait till its available in the US then do so. I believe its worth the wait.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The FX has major blind spots, though. At least when I sat in the driver's seat. And forget tall stuff.

    It's more hatchback shaped than wagon shaped. Kind of a shame, actually, 'cause I'd really need more cargo space and it looks to be perhaps the sportiest of the car-based SUVs.

  • In 0ctober 2002 I purchased a new 2003 Jetta Wagon / TDI / GL / 5-speed. Over a year
    later I have about 28,000 miles on it. My overall average has been 55.3 MPG. I have highs
    as 61 MPG and the low of 44 MPG on the very first tank of diesel.

    I am quite pleased so far and would recommend this car to a couple who would like
    the advantage of folding down the rear seat for a remarkable amount of room for camping
    etc. There is not very much leg room for rear seat passengers but still adequate.

    So far no problems. I change oil and filters every 10,000 miles after the initial 5,000 mile
    change. I use Mobil Delvac 5-40 100% synthetic motor oil and Original Equiment oil
    filter. No oil use between changes.

    Power is more than adequate and mountain passes this year on our westen vacation was
    never a problem. Cruising at 75 MPH was effortless even on up hill grades.

    I know there are many choices out there but not many choices would give you 55MPG and
    everything else I mentioned.

    Alster 2
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Not too shabby. Range must be excellent, also.

  • The new 2.0l TDI engine, as currently available in the 7-seater Touran in Europe, manages 136hp (240 ft-lbs @1750rpm) at the usual 40-55mpg. I want that here and now in a Jetta AWD wagon.

    Enough said,

    - D.
  • hpulley4hpulley4 Posts: 591
    Getting a bit off topic but here goes: Does that 2.0 TDI need the new low-sulphur diesel or will it run on the rotten egg muck currently on sale in north america? I look forward to when both gas and diesel have lower sulphur content.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'm sure it does.

    The 1.9TDI does already have good torque, 150 lb-ft I believe. But yeah, for more mainstream acceptance that 2.0 would go a long way.

  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
This discussion has been closed.