Mazda Protege5

bobinwi1

Sporin
Do your tires sing between like 35 & 70 MPH? I put new ones on last weekend & it sounds like a cross between a whistle & a jet engine from outside the car. Noticed it even in the rain tonight. I'm hoping its the tires. Do you get this?

cbmorton

That's a well-known Arctic Alpin characteristic. I had them on a previous car and they sang on wet pavement, but overall they were an excellent winter tire.

Sporin

Yup, they sing in that exact speed range and have since new. It's loudest when he roads are wet.

cdnp5

I just got back from my trip down to California and places in between over the last month. I'm now almost at the 100,000km mark so I just had the timing belt changed, ouch!

Most of the time I would have the cruise set at 130kph (80mph) when on the freeway. I also had my snow tires on during this trip as I didn't want to take any chances while going through the mountains which was the right decision.

Here are the short details about my mileage.
High 6.89L/100 or 34.42 mpg
Low 9.11L/100 or 25.97 mpg
Avg 7.96L/100 or 29.87 mpg

Highest elevation 11,500 feet
Lowest elevation -200 feet

The weather was great and I had to only deal with one snow storm on the highway not counting crossing a mountain pass in Colorado.

This car is so much fun to drive!

dinu01

Did you get it done in Canada?

How much? Mine's at 68-69K...

Thanks,
Dinu

cdnp5

Yes I did get it done in Canada. I live in London and get my car serviced in Stratford. I find their prices better than London and their level of service is much higher also. Plus they did my rear brakes under warranty where London wouldn't. For the full 96,000km service it cost me $550 (ouch is right). I'm sure there are a few things you could have omitted to save some money. If you want to know everything they did, let me know and I will dig up my receipt. I usually keep my cars for as long as I can so I didn't mind spending the money, well actually I did but the car is worth it. I also got it proffesionally detailed (not at the dealer) as it really needed that also (paint chips, waxing). Now the car looks and feels like new.

dinu01

I was just curious what budget I have to set for myself.

Like you, I plan on keeping it for a while and I'm pretty obsessive about the car's maintenance

Dinu

bluong1

11000 km trip, that's a lot! The longest for me is ... about 3500 km!

bobinwi1

Well, I'm glad thats all it is but its like driving a canary.

sevenseas

Have 850 miles on this car and have been very happy with the driving experience. Theres something about this car that makes me feel more connected than my Mazda6. Don't get me wrong, my drive to Las Vegas last month with the M6 was a pleasure, heated seats, smooth ride, power of the V6. Would never consider trading it in. But with the M6 design comes a more isolated ride compared to the Pro5. I like the fact that going 65 mph with the Pro5 feels like you're going fast due to the noise and firm ride generated by the cars design. And driving the car in the city has that go-kart driving experience. Many people have compared the Mazda3 with the Pro5 but I suggest comparing the Pro5 to the Mini since my guess is the driving experience is similar.

bluong1

Ahhh, I can feel that you are an true enthusiasm driver, who appreciates cars such as the Pro5 and Mini.

Good point about Mazda3 vs Pro5. I agree that the Go-Kart character of the Pro5 is lost with the Mazda3. The Mazda3 is very capable, better performed than the Pro5 in every single department, though it's now become a civilize, well-mannered, much more refined than the Pro5. The Pro5 is closer in character to the Miata, and the Mazda3 is closer to the Mazda6. I still great fun with my Pro5.

ginto

Hi all.
Well it finally snowed last week in Toronto, and as promised I can give some feedback on my Eskimo snow tires. These are 195/55-15H, and were swapped out from the original Dunlops & rims.

In a word, great! Sunday I was tooling around east of Toronto on Hwy 401, and going 100km/hr was passing everyone. Grip was fine. Once onto side roads there was a bit of slip where the plows hadn't been, but I was far more worried about someone sliding into me than I was of skidding into them or immobile objects. I saw lots of trucks and cars doing the side-slip shuffle as they tried to accelerate. No problems going extra-wide around them.

A side benefit of these tires is wet traction. The Dunlops have always been a handful in the wet, and these snows could also be termed "rains" by their wet traction. I really can't remember how well the Dunlops performed new (it's been 2 1/2 years now), but I don't think they were the equal of the Eskimos.

George

protojason

If I recall, the 2003.5's come minus one roof rack, but add a sub in the spare tire compartment.

I've a 2003 (dont have the roof rack installed), and this car has turned me into a 'car guy.' I really dont know too much about car audio, but am interested in any specs you folks are able to provide about that amp, (sub?) and how you like it.

I'm considering aftermarket options and want to make sure I at least get something comparable.
By specs, I mean dimensions, watts, brands etc.

Or just a website detailing this feature of the 2003.5's would suffice.

Thanks folks.

Jason

bluong1

well, I'm pretty sure virtual everything aftermarket will be better than the stock sub.

The wire harness is Metra: 70-7903, 71-7903 into factory radio
Scosche: MA03, MA03R into factory radio NO DIMMER OR ILLUMINATION

The dash kit is Metra: 88-00-9000 or 98-7599
Scosche: MA1537
Best Kits BKMA1573B

Don't forget the speakers, they are the weakest link and deserved to be upgraded first. The total speaker wattage is 100 W.

Speakers dimensions:
Front 6x8" / 5x7" @ 2.75"
Front seperate tweeters by mirrors.
Rear 6" @ 4.25", 6" speakers fit the best and 6 1/2" can fit by cutting the rain guard.

pciskowski

I too thought the speakers were the weakest link. However, after replacing the head unit I have decided to keep the speakers because they don't sound bad. If I spent ~$500 for speakers I don't think I would notice that much difference. I have a 2002, so I don't have the sub. Even with the stock speakers the bass is pretty good. That was a nice surprise. I won't win any contests, but it is way better than the stock head unit.

Phil

bluong1

It's may be misleading to use the term "weakest".

What I meant was the stock speakers sound rather muddy, and lack of clarity. I'm happy with the power of the amp, because I don't listen at high volume.

boggse

You don't have to spend $500 for a good set of speakers. Get the speakers from the MS Protege for about $250 from Mazdastuff or Trussville Mazda. Here are the part numbers:

0000-81-C04A Front Speaker Kit
0000-81-C32 Rear Speaker Kit

They are Kenwood eXcelon KFC-X688C and KFC-Xr601 respectively. They go for about $320 on Crutchfield, and, with a new head unit, they make all the difference in the world. They help a good bit even with the OEM head unit.

ashutoshsm

... (Kenwood eXcelons) from somewhere where the prices are not incredibly inflated (like ebay, unlike Crutchfield).

In fact, the only time a large-online-store deal is a good one is when you can use one of the multitude of discount coupons floating around the internet (especially) for package deals & sometimes $-off coupons, through them

sevenseas

boggse,
I also have been interested in replacing my Pro5 front and rear speakers but want to keep the stock cd player unit.

Are you sure the speakers offered by Trussville Mazda, part numbers 0000-81-C04A Front Speaker Kit and 0000-81-C32 Rear Speaker Kit, are the Kenwood eXcelon KFC-X688C and KFC-Xr601 speakers?

boggse

Yes, they are what I got from Mazda. You can call them and ask for confirmation if you like.

dagpotter

OK, I have to get new tires. Should I try the Toya Proxes TR-4's or stick with the Dunlops? The price is about the same, and I have 36K miles on my Dunlops, so they seem to last alright. Any advice?

boggse

WOW! 36k on Dunlops? You must do a lot of highway driving. Personally, if the price is about the same, I would go with the Toyos because the brand has such a good reputation.

Ted

meinrad

If you got 36k out of the Dunlops, than I'd say go with them unless you know you'll like the Toyo's.

At this poing the Dunlops are a known quantity and unless you don't like them for some reason than why change?

Mine only lasted 20K and were really only good tires for 15k. I had to nurse my way through the last 5k. But, when they were new, I thought they were great.

If I had gotten 36k out of them, I probably wouldn't have switched.

dagpotter

Most of my driving is interstate back and forth to work. Stop and go. OK, I will go with the Dunlops.

Thanks...

bluong1

I believe the cheap OEM Dunlops SP 5000 are not the same as after market homonym tires. There is even an unidirectional SP 5000 out there.

boggse

Yes, the OEM tire is the SP Sport 5000m as opposed to the SP Sport 5000.

Here is the Dunlop OE Catalog:

http://www.dunloptire.com/origequip_fitments/2003OE.pdf

AFAIK, the 5000 doesn't come in 195/50R16, so it shouldn't be possible to get the wrong tire.

dagpotter

I ordered Dunlop SP 5000M from tirerack. If I can get 25000 out of them then that will be fine. My yearly mileage is dropping slowly as I seem to be carpooling more to work. Maybe next year I will get snowtires and that will make them last even longer.

cogs25

I recognize that this is just an intellectual exercise, but could the 2004 2.3 engine be put into a P5 as a straight swap?

boggse

No, for one thing, the intake and exhaust on the 2.3L are reversed from the old 2.0L. You would have to manufacture a custom intake and exhaust, and that is assuming the engine mounts match up, which I doubt. If you are looking for more power, I suggest getting a 2.0L JDM engine from a Familia. These can be had through Corksport. 170HP for around $1950 (plus installation). Of course, you could also, turbocharge your P5 for around $3595 from FlyinMiata.

Ted

protojason

Welp, left work for lunch today, walk around back of my car and discovered that somebody decided to pry off my 'm' for mazda on the back of my hatch.

Nothing there now but two holes and left over adhesive.

I thought it was a bit odd....this sort of thing happen to anyone else? Anyone know off hand how much one of those cost?

Havent had much luck searching online, just havent contacted a dealership yet.

anywho....

Jason

ps love the new roof rack for my bike.

mazdafun

Punks start stealing emblems from them. I wish they'd just buy the parts from a dealership.

cdnp5

Today my P5 just hit 100,000 kms. It only took 2 years and 3 month to achieve, LOL. I have a picture of it but I don't know how to paste it into this message. I actually kept the camera in the car waiting for this to happen.
Still love the car but I can't wait for spring so I can put back on the summer tires and the warmer weather so I can open the roof again.

Happy Motoring

andrewk

I recall reading the '03 Protege5 brochure that made some mention of a morning commute in the car might very well replace your morning coffee. When I first read that I thought the Mazda marketing folks were really reaching and having problems coming up with ideas.

Today was the first time that I drove my wife's car to work since I bought my P5 (about 3 weeks ago.) Her car is a very nice '03 Subaru Legacy SE wagon with a 5 speed; nice car, very smooth, very comfortable. However, it does not have the "zoom-zoom" that my P5 has! The Subie almost felt sedate.

I don't think the P5 will ever replace my morning java, but it is definitely a morning rush!!!

iamz

To start this post let me state that for the last 20 years I've replaced brakes, belts, water pumps, batteries, alternators and the like on all my cars. I do all the routine maintenance like oil & filter, air filter and spark plugs. So, you get the picture, I'm not a serious mechanic but I'll do the more mundane "can't screw it up too bad" kind of stuff. This little history brings me to yesterday. Up until yesterday I thought spark plugs were in the above category. Again, until yesterday.

Apparently, when my car hit 30K and I replaced my plugs, I didn't quite torque down one of the plugs enough. It felt snug at the time. It felt as snug as every other plug of the dozens of plugs I've replaced over the years. I should have used a torque wrench but I'm not sure that would have made a difference. Maybe. Maybe not.

This simple error on my part resulted in the spark plug working itself loose enough that with every compressive stroke on that cylinder the plug worked itself up and down, again and again, up and down, gradually wearing down the threads on the aluminum head. It did this for 29,300 miles without a hint, audible or otherwise, that something was amiss. And again, until yesterday.

Ahhh yes, sweet wonderful yesterday when finally the compression stroke won, and the threads gave out, and the plug blew out of the engine.

The reason this is a bad thing (other than being stranded on the road side) is that there needs to be some aluminum left if one wants to tap new threads into the cylinder head. If one cannot tap new threads, the head is dead. Useless. Junk. Garbage. Trash. Of no more use than an empty aluminum Coke can heading for the recycle bin.

I'm looking at $2700 - $3000 of parts and labor.

This is a very expensive little lesson. I'll continue doing most of the "can't screw up too bad" work on my cars with one exception. I'll let the real mechanics do my plugs from now on.

It makes you kind of want to grab your torque wrench or go out and buy one and check those plugs doesn't it?

Really though, please do check. I know a lot of you folks here are college students or raising families and are on a limited budget and this is an expense you do not need.

Later,

jmcknight2

- Thanks for sharing your experience and possibly saving some of us a lot of money. I didn't realize torque was so important on aluminum heads, but it makes sense. They recommend re-torquing lug nuts on alloy wheels after a couple hundred miles. Of course, there's no guarantee every mechanic is going to properly torque plugs, but if they mess up, it'll be their liability, hopefully.

mazdafun

I'll check my Pro tonight. I've never had an issue with my '89 323, but better safe than sorry.

I think I should get a second, smaller torque wrench for this. I like leaving my large one "locked in" the right range for the lug nuts. Torque wrenches cost a lot less than a new valve cover (I'm sure the hood gets a good whack too).

autohound1

Does anyone know what I should expect to pay for a new Protoge5? Assume base, 5-speed manual, with no extra options. I negotiated a price of $14,500 out the door (7%tax, tag, title included) for a base model. I believe that translated into a purchase price of about $13,000 plus the obligatory addons. Is that considered a good deal with all the incentives available now? Or should I expect to do better? Thanks.

the_big_h

does that include the incentives or no?

andrewk

autohound1, that sounds high to me. I bought an '03 at the end of January. It was a 5 speed with the only option being was the ABS/side airbag safety package. It stickered at $17.8 and I got it for $5100 off (inclusive of incentives) which put it at $12.7; plus a $100 BS doc fee and sales tax. I think you need to look at your net cost (taxes, title, excluded.) I found several dealers willing to go $5000 or so off, which I think would have put a base at $12.2 or so. I probably could have gotten a better deal than what I did had I waited (they are having big inventory tax sales now here Indiana) but then there was the risk of not getting the exact car that I wanted. These P5s are definitely selling!!

I absolutely love the car that I bought and very happy with the deal also.

autohound1

The car was base, 5sp manual, no extra options at all. 600+ miles on odometer (not titled). Price quoted was $13,000 + 1,440 tax/tag/title for a total of $14,440. That included all incentives, price reductions and so forth. So the $14.4k was "out the door"....no extras to add on (unless there is some "doc fee" they didn't tell me about yet).

Andrewk: It sounds like you did get a good deal on yours. I was actually trying to negotiate down to $12,000+/- ,,,plus tax, tag, title on top of that. They wouldn't do it though. I'm not sure what it's like elsewhere, but it's impossible to buy a "used" 2003 P-5 w/ a years worth of miles for less than $13,000 (or even more). The 2002's are mostly asking around $11.5 to $12.5 with 30k-50k miles on them. Edmunds shows true value (private party at least) to be closer to $10k. What gives? Is Edmunds crazy or are these used prices inflated where I live?

andrewk

autohound1:

I don't think Edmunds is crazy, but I think there are greater deals out there if you are willing to put forth the extra effort.

In the beginning, I test drove a P5 for the first time from a local dealer. He was high on his first offer, came back at me a second time high, then with his third offer he said it was his best price -couldn't possibly do any better. Two weeks later, I bought it from him for $500 less!

I searched the inventories through MazdaUSA.com, found acceptable cars option-wise and then requested eqoutes. Most all of the dealers come back high. I would respond politely essentially saying thanks but not thanks and then tell what there competition is doing. Work with several dealers this way and becomes a bidding wars of sorts.

After I got my best deal, I called my local dealer and said "I am going to buy a P5 today at $5100 off sticker" and gave him an opportunity to match it, which he did.

After doing this for a week or two, I developed quite a dialogue with 3 different dealers. They really sharpen their pencils and open up when they realize there is competition. When it was all over, I got a very good deal, but it did take some work.

What part of the country are you in?

autohound1

Thanks for those tips. I'm in the metro-Atlanta area. I used one on-line service to get a local dealer quote on a P5. The dealer response came back with no price, but told me to look at their web site and call them. All they had there was 1 P5, an automatic. My orignal request stated I wasn't even interested in an automatic though.

I may try skipping the "online" services and just asking directly for the e-quotes like you did. I appreciate your sharing those ideas. Though I actually prefer the Mazda3 (or a 6 hatch or wagon), the P-5 seems like a real bargain for $5,000+ off sticker. Hard to pass that up!

pciskowski

"Though I actually prefer the Mazda3 (or a 6 hatch or wagon), the P-5 seems like a real bargain for $5,000+ off sticker. Hard to pass that up!" In my experience, a great deal on a car you don't want is not really a great deal.

That being said, considering what you are getting, a new base P5 in 12 to 13K range is almost like stealing. Except for the payments...

I personally prefer the looks of the P5 over the 3 hatchback. It gives me a bad "Vibe".

p5calgal

New owner here...Hello to everyone and thanks for all the great info this board provided while I was shopping for my new P5 (not my first Mazda, but my first brand new car).

I got my new 2003 5-speed P5 in early February for $13,700 after rebate (plus TTL) equipped with ABS/side airbag package, autodim mirror, roof rack, cargo tray, bumper guard, cargo net and wheel locks. The car had 22 miles on it. MSRP was $18545. Maybe not the absolute best deal out there, but after a lot of effort, I'm happy to have gotten a car I love at a very fair price.

Autohound1: Like you, starting out I was looking for a P5 with few options (the must-haves for me were roof rack, 5-speed, vivid yellow) somewhere in the $12-$12.5K range. Here in Northern California the dealers had sold out of what I was interested in, so I did a pretty extensive search in various parts of the country, including Atlanta, Chicago, Mid-Atlantic states and Ohio, as well as Southern Cal and the Pacific Northwest.

I used a similar approach to andrewk's - requested quotes directly from dealers via e-mail after identifying specific vehicles in inventory on mazdausa.com, then e-mailed back telling dealers when their initial pricing seemed high and shared with them some of the other prices I'd gotten. Some dealers weren't very responsive and others came down substantially ($800+) from their first quotes.

Could only get a couple of quotes within the price range I was hoping for, unfortunately one of those was from a dealer in Maryland that didn't seem very professional and I didn't really trust, and the other was from a great dealer in Ohio but the car didn't have the roof rack I wanted.

The next lowest price came from one of the dealers located near you in the Atlanta area. The dealership, John Thornton Mazda, was very responsive and I was seriously leaning towards buying my car there if I hadn't found one much closer by in Southern California (decided to spend more on the car since I had lower road trip costs getting the car back home). The car in Atlanta was an early '03 with a roof rack rather than the subwoofer, cassette player add-on, wheel locks and cargo net; second round quote was $12784 saving $4636 off the sticker. According to mazdausa.com, the dealer still has a few 5-speeds available, so you might want to check them out.

One caveat: Dealer pricing will change depending upon the manufacturer-to-dealer cash incentives available at any point in time in a given region. Since Edmunds no longer lists the P5 in the "new car" category, it's hard to tell what Mazda's current "marketing support" incentives are, but that could be a factor if you can't get similar pricing.

Good luck with your negotiating - let us know if you decide to go with the P5 and how it turns out.

(Did I mention I love my new car?!)

urbanek

Cannot a helicoil insert be done to replace the destroyed thread. Helicoil insert is a process by which a slightly larger thread is tapped into the metal. The coil has a tang at the base and a tool simply cranks it in and re-establishes the original thread major diameter, minor diameter and pitch. I did not investigate the OEM to determine if one is offered for this application.

urbanek

Like my 5 very much, done in the blue and the engine auto trans does hills very well, and I've got hills to contend with!

At 15,000 mi developed intermittant squeal from passenger rear caliper. Had it looked at by my mechanic, Mazda, my mechanic and again Mazda. Finally fixed. There was corrosion between the pad and caliper so the pad did not retract and rested against the rotor making the squeal. Mazda disassembled, cleaned and coated the area with an antiseize compound. That did it in Aug03 and the problem has not returned.

With 25,000mi my maint $ have been for only a few oil changes and that one minor problem........

Again I like the sports car feel of the vehicle...and it is a wagon type body.

autohound1

First of all I want to thank everyone here who has helped me in trying to purchase a new P5. After following much of your collective advice, I have finally negotiated a deal on a new P5. It's red, 5sp, moonroof/6-cd, autodim/compass mirror, subwoofer, cargo net, and wheel locks. It doesn't have ABS/SAB (which I really wanted), but it was nearly impossible to find one with ABS/SAB plus 5sp and sunroof. It was a concession I was willing to make though.

I'm ending up having to purchase out-of-state because nothing around here available in colors/options I wanted. Actual price was $4,827 off MSRP (My total = $13,573 / MSRP = $18,400). So, I didn't get quite the deal that some of you have gotten, but it still appears to be a good deal for a great car right when I really need it (my current car has 192,000 miles and is starting to nickel/dime me....time to go!).

Like some of you, I found the "dealer quote request" process from Mazdausa.com worked very well. Most dealers were very responsive. Some willing to deal, while others were not. Some sounded a bit shady, while others were up-front/honest about things. All-in-all, I found it to be a very productive process for buying a new car.

In general, most dealers quoted me prices fairly close to each other, with some notable exceptions. Some were open to throwing in extras as well. Also, I used S-plan pricing. Some dealers said it cost more to use S-plan (one of those "shady" ones I mentioned before), others said it didn't apply, and others accepted it and lowered their price because of it. I don't even know what the real deal on that is, but I did use the S-plan on this particular deal.

The place I'm buying from has even agreed to bring the car to me for $150 if I choose. However, I may want to do my own "break-in" miles and might just pick it up myself (6 hour drive each way). I've never bought a car like this before (sight unseen; out-of-state) and will report back on how the whole transaction goes. Thanks again to everyone for your help.

andrewk

Congrats autohound1, you have purchased a great car and won't be disappointed.

I had many of the same concerns and reservations you did. Getting the right discount on the right car. I pulled the tigger on mine when I did because I saw that the inventories were shrinking.

I found there were all sorts of dealers out there. Some were very upfront and upright, others I wouldn't trust with... well... I wouldn't trust them with anything. A couple were practically insulting the crap they were feeding me.

I too had reservations about purchasing a car unseen and having it delivered from out of state. The dealer said he had a couple retired guys that did that sort of driving. I expressed my concerns to the dealer about the retiree putting the car in cruise for 2.5 hours, which he responded that there wasn't a break-in period anymore, WRONG there is one.

When it was all over and done with, I found it to be one of the most satisfying purchases I have ever made. I put a lot of research into selecting the P5 and a lot of work into getting the deal I got on the car I wanted. A great car at a great price just as you have done.

Good luck!

autohound1

My new P5 was just delivered at noon today. It was supposed to arrive earlier but a freak snowstorm in the south delayed me by two days (I bought it out-of-state). However, I'm happy to report it was worth the wait. It came to me covered in road crud....dirt, salt, etc. At first I thought,,,,"Did I pick the right color?" because it looked down right cruddy (it's red, by the way). But I took her immediately to a car wash and she came out looking absolutely outstanding and I knew I made the right purchase. I'm coming from an old Honda Oddessey and I have to admit that I wasn't used to the second looks people give this car. It's really quite a head-turner for such a modest car.

I really love the car...more than I even thought I would. I've driven it around all day and am constantly looking for another excuse to drive somewhere. Today, I even went for a test drive in a new Mazda3 because my $35 gift certificate was set to expire after tonight. I came away from the test drive appreciating the refinement of the new 3, the smoothness & pull of its 2.3 engine, and the classy interior. It feels like a bigger car than the P5, but I don't think it is in reality.

That being said, I preferred the openness, simplicity, and "fun" factor of the P5 ... It seems to involve you more in the driving. She's like the wild/fun sister compared to the 3 which is the more refined sister who seems to do everything right, but she just doesn't have the same spunk or attitude as the P5. Weird analagy, I'm sure, but I hope it makes sense. To sum it up, I'm glad I got the P-5 for it's character, price, and relative exclusivity since it only had a 2 year run.

Anyhow, the out-of-state transaction went just fine. Not one "issue" encountered, though I haven't registered & tagged it yet in my state. The dealership was great to deal with. And the retiree's who drove it to me were very courteous.

I know some people complain about the road & engine noise and the power of the engine, but frankly, none of that bothers me a bit. Then again, most people probably didn't come from the old style Honda Oddessey, which is far noiser (engine & road noise), and far slower. I know, two totally differnt cars, but while the Honda can be relied upon and gets me from point A to B, the P5 excites me each time I approach it or even think of driving it. And as I walk away from it, I frequently take a double-take, just to admire her classy lines. I expect a relatively trouble-free ownership period with the car and look forward to many more days with her. Thanks again everyone for helping me to make this decision and allowing me to get what I consider a great deal on this car.

mazdafun

I much prefer it to the 3 also. It's more direct and I find the interior more comfortable and controls easier to use. I also find outward visibility in the 3 is much worse than in the P5 forwards and especially rear-wards. But I sit pretty tall in both cars (I can actually fit in the rear seat of the P5, but not at all in the 3, even in the hatch version), so the sloping roofline of the 3 affects me a lot.

I love my Pro LX, but I'm always happy to find a reason to borrow my wife's P5!