Mazda Protege5

crikey

Thanks, sharonf. Although, I was looking into whether the manual mode of the sport tranny would allow shifting at (or even just before ?) the tach reaches redline.

See, most manumatics that I have tried does not allow this. And for good reason -- to prevent damage to the engine. But, newer cars, the Infiniti G35 for example, allows the tranny to get to redline (6600 rpm) before it intervenes. This ensures that the driver is able to extract the full power of the engine. For the MP5, the peak horsepower of 130 is achieved at 6000 rpm. Would the sport tranny allow the tach to reach, at least 6000 rpm before intervening (and shift for you)?

crikey

I think maltb is correct.

bluong1

you and me, we both have the same notion of redline shifting, i.e., shift when the tach just reach the red line at 6500 rpm. I never let the engine stay in the red line zone. To be honest, I only brought my P5 only 2 or 3 times to the red line. Other than that, shifting at 5000-5500 rpm gives already solid acceleration.

Stupid question: do automatic cars really need a tachometer?

Bruno

protege_fan

Isn't the start of redline at 6500 rpm?

crikey

...redline at 6500 rpm. i must have gotten him confused with getting 130hp@6000rpm

So, does the sport AT manumatic allow the tach to go between 6000 and 6500 rpm before the computer shifts for the driver?

bluong1

bluong1

My guess is it should depend on the load among other things. So it may be hard to answer your question by a simple yes/no crikey. But hey, please don't listen to me, I don't know much about automatic. ;-)

Bruno

Sporin

Can someone give me the link to a picture of the new ('03) shift knob? Mine ('02) is already starting to lose the numbers (sweaty palms?) and I'd like to replace it with an all-leather one.

I read above that ther is a picture on Edmunds but I can't find it.

Thanks

maltb

Stupid question: do automatic cars really need a tachometer?

Does any car need a tachometer? Most every car out there peaks before redline. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to go to far past the peak, so hopefully, you would shift before you hit redline anyway.

The only car I have driven that I repeatedly went past redline was on a '95 RX-7. It happens so quick, that it seems like you just shifted and already you are hearing a warning beep telling you that you are in the red.

protege_fan

Do you keep your hand on the shifter knob when you're driving?

silver_bullet

Like Nissan and others, I believe the Mazda wheel locks are actually made by McGard. They are essentially a set of four keyed lugnuts. You can buy them from your dealer's parts dept., or order them from a vendor like the Tire Rack. They cost about $20-$30 per set either way, and only take a few minutes to install. Don't lose that key!

Sporin

Not at all... I make a point not to in fact. I'm starting to lose the 2, 4, R.

protege_fan

Oh....that's weird! Is that top piece a sticker or is there more to it then that?

Sporin

It looks like black ink, printed or silk-screened onto either aluminum, or aluminum-looking plastic. Then there is a clear coat over the whole thing.

protege_fan

I wonder if you can just replace the sticker then, or just the whole knob? I'm guessing you can do the knob fairly easily.

jas9297

For some reason, the new leather knob is shown, but in the pre-refresh model (note the cup-holder cover).

Try: http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/mazda/protege5/4drwagon20l4cyl5m/photos.html?id=lin0002

Maybe you can ask your dealer for a freebee.

chicagopro

Was it here in TH or somewhere else, where somebody posted about what the tach was able to tell him regarding loss of traction?

Driver noticed that his tach was going crazy, but he had very little acceleration. He pulled over and realized that the road was covered in black ice...

Actually, same thing happened to me in very rainy weather a couple of weeks ago...light turned green, tried to accelerate, tach went up, car went nowhere for a couple of seconds.

Dang...sorry I can't find the original post...I'm falling down on the job as TH secretary

maltb

well, in our noisy, buzzy Mazdas, you can feel it without looking at the tach. Maybe in a Benz you might not notice it.

chicagopro

who can hear the engine when you have the tunes cranked?

maltb

...FEEL...

;-)

dsm6

Does the manual pro have a rev limiter? Been thinking of that as I prepare to teach the wife to drive a manual. Doh! :-(

bluong1

it makes perfect sense, but I think most people may notice the loss of the traction without even watching the tachometer.

My earlier objection about the tachometer on automatic cars is: as the shifting moment is decided anyway by an electronic circuitry, why conductor needs to watch the tach? I think tachometer is just there for cosmetic purpose mainly and it's not really a useful device, at least not in the extend when it's on the manual car. Now I'm sure I'll get bitten for this remark. ;-)

Bruno

bluong1

how it works anyway? Let's assume the car is cruising in fifth at 80mph, its driver try to downshift directly to the second (a scenario that I hope dsm6's wife will never be in). Is that means that the rev limiter is intelligent enough to predict the rpm (after shifting) and will never allow the second to be engaged in such situation? Hard for me to believe.

Bruno

dsm6

and engine breaking, that's how it would work. Let's hope we don't find out. :-)

Actually, I'm thinking the sychros might not let you get it in gear, that is if they managed to survive the stunt.

Truth be told, I hope never to know the answer.

protege_fan

From 5th to 2nd going 80 mph?? LMAO!! I really hope nobody has done that to their Pro!

Like dsm6 said, I'm not sure the synchros would let you do it all that easily.
Even if you did, I'd bet the rev limiter would do it's job and not let your engine explode...at least I would hope so. The needle would probably be bouncing off of the rev limiter like crazy while you were giving yourself whiplash!

chicagopro

'Noisy' and 'buzzy' were perhaps a little misleading, Mr. Smarty Pants.

But you're right, I should have paid attention to all the words.

And me a reading teacher, too. Shame on me.



--Dale

bluong1

I think synchros now a days is much better than it used to be. I think the rev limiter is just a simple gas shutdown device like Sharon described this morning but it can't prevent the engine turning too fast when it's pull physically by the car inertia.

Bruno

mazdafun

If you have the tunes up, it can be hard to feel the engine, never mind hear it. Get some REAL speakers into the front doors and you'll "see" what I mean.

dsm6

I'm actually more worried about what might happen when the car is in neutral or the clutch disengaged.

From past experience, it seems to me that folks who have driven nothing but autos don't really have a feel for how an engine responds to the throttle while not in gear, because an automatic transmission equipped car is almost always in gear, and how often do you rev an auto while in neutral?. So they aren't used to the engine racing quickly to the red line as it does when you press the accelerator with the clutch disengaged.

Whatever. No worries. So we bounce of the rev limiter a few times, so what. Besides, she's a smart lady. She won't have any problems. and burning clutch smells good. ;-)

silver_bullet

... won't prevent damage from an overrev occuring during a missed shift. A friend managed a 5-2 downshift in his E36 M3, and the bent valves and dinged piston tops he got are proof of that As pointed out by others, the "rev limiter" is actually programming in the ECU that interrupts fuel flow as the RPMs approach redline.

protege_fan

That sounds terrible! I can't imagine the sound that would have made!!

mazdafun

I think they are anyway. I know the one in my '89 is, and I think the Mazda-designed ones are.

Honda engines are interference type, I believe. You DO NOT want to miss changing your timing belt.

Interfering = valves and piston occupy the same space, but hopefully at different times. Bad timing equals bent valves etc. (just as silver bullet's friend experienced). Ouch.

Non-interfering = valves and piston do not occupy the same space, unless something has gone horribly, horribly wrong, in which case your valves getting dinged is probably the least of your worries (such as that tree trunk intruding upon your knees). So a busted timing belt isn't going to cause that much damage. Still, your engine won't run... not very far anyway.

Gee, I get punchy this late in the work day. Gotta take my breaks though.

sharonf

Boy is this conversation above my head! Think I'll go clean the poop from what must've been a very large bird that landed on my freshly washed P5 today...GRRRRRRR...
lATERS....

alternator

(who make timing belts) says that all Protege 1.5L & 1.8L engines are non-interference, but that the 2.0L engine is an interference type! Click on "timing belt replacement guide" (which covers almost every make and model) at:

 http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=981&location_id=524

bluong1

A question though: do broken-timing-bell and engine overrev imply both the same trouble of valve/piston positions? I guess not: (i) in the first case the valves, free of any active forces, will be located at a stable position controlled by the balance of the return springs; (ii) the second case, the valves, still moving, but simply cannot follow the intended synchronization at a too high engine revolution and, interference or not, it will get hit by the piston anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong.

We need to find an owner of a Protege 1.5 or 1.8l engine for the experience Any volunteer? ;-)

Bruno

mustang87

uhm, i wanted to add my three cents to a few topics but now i forgot what they were since i had to read so many posts to catch up. it seems in the past couple of months this board has exploded with people and posts. i can't keep up. however, please do not stop posting

as far as i know interference engines are more "productive" : burn off more gas, less exhaust, more power...
but as somebody mentioned, you do not want to miss out on timing belt replacement. a couple of years ago my mom was on vocation and i drove her 87 cutlass ciera gt. one day i decided to go to pep boys to look around. (car parts stores rule
I got there fine. when i came out the car wouldn't start, i kept trying but it just made strange sounds i have never heard of before. now i am glad it didn't break while i was driving it but the damage was still at more than $600.

if you are deciding on old auto or new one, i would go with a new one. not only do you get a cool toy, but possibly also more power and slightly better mpg. plus, those manual/auto cars have a cool gear display to the left of the temp and fuel gauges. that should be enough reasons to go with the auto stick. i wish i had it.

insurance, our new policy just started and i have to pay $2k a year. i am 22 with a spotless record in five years, since i started driving. live in a good neighborhood, parents own a house, and i go to college. Yeah, its expensive. and i was eyeing a mustang gt before i bought the 5. life is tough my mom's 2002 rav4 (bought in march) only costs $600 for the same coverage with one no fault accident. RIP 87 cutlass ciera gt.

i think that's it for now. oh yeah, also remember the $400 graduate rebate and if you are a citibank drivers edge card holder you get money back on car purchases. i saved an additional $800 with those two "features".

was it maltb that said the dealer cannot charge document/processing fee? i bought on s-plan and also paid $250 in those fees. can you give me more info on this so i can get that money back if possible.

also does the mp5 have a timing belt or a timing chain?

bluong1

protege_fan

sharonf

Think I finally got my insurance sorted out...they're telling me $900/yr. This is w/AAA...I'm in Cali(Bay area), 34, f, not married, good driver discount, condo owner discount, multiple car discount.....seems like w/all these discounts it should be less!! But then again....when I read mustang 87's post...I guess I shouldn't complain!!
Sharon

silver_bullet

If the timing belt (or chain for that matter) breaks, the camshaft(s) stop rotating and the valvetrain stops moving - so any valves being held open by cam lobes stay open. Meanwhile, if the crankshaft is turning, the pistons are still moving up and down in their bores. If the engine is an interference design, those moving pistons will get nicked by the now stationary open valves. My dad's old Volvo 240 wagon had a non-interference engine. When the belt broke one day on the highway, the engine just died and he coasted off to the side of the road. Replacing the belt was fairly inexpensive (but the tow back to town wasn't!), and no other harm was done.

dsm6

From an email from Mazda USA:

"With regard to your inquiry, the 2.0L DOHC 16-valve 4-cylinder engine
equipped in your 2002 Mazda Protegé is a non-interfering engine."

Sporin

Thanks for the link. Looks nice. My nearest Mazda dealer is an hour and a half away. Unless it is outrageously expensive, it's "cheaper" for me just to buy it.

I'm going to check out some aftermarket ones too (MOMO etc). I want it to look like it's part of the car though, not some flashy add-on.

crikey

...or has tried to see whether the Sport AT in manumatic mode would allow the tach to go between 6000 and 6500 rpm before system intervention. I guess I'm gonna have to try it out myself.

dsm6

I hear Greddy makes one that adds 10 hp.

vilainefemme

My boyfriend's Honda Prelude has a similar shifter. Sometimes you forget that you're in 'manual' mode and we've never had it shift for us or anything. Granted, we've probably never redlined it, at least not that I can remember or would swear to in public.

I'd never buy a car with an automatic transmission, but if I had to suffer with one, the manu-matic is the way to go.

Jess

maltb

was it maltb that said the dealer cannot charge document/processing fee? i bought on s-plan and also paid $250 in those fees. can you give me more info on this so i can get that money back if possible.

How did you get S-plan? Whoever the administrator of the plan is should have that info. If it was through the Ford Partner Recognition Program (1-877-XPLAN-00), they should be able to help you out with that.

jas9297

maltb is correct. I finally got an S-plan brochure faxed to me. Prices are nonnegotiable and no proc. fee allowed! I called Mazda at 1-800-222-5500 and pressed 4, and asked for a fax of the plan. I can e-mail it to you if you write me at js24642@hotmail.com. Hopefully they will refund, but they may try to argue that the contract is signed. I'm still going to demand a refund - the argument is that they violated the plan!

crikey

I'd never buy a car with an automatic transmission, but if I had to suffer with one, the manu-matic is the way to go.

That's the situation I am in -- the wifey needs to drive the car also and refuses the 3 pedal exercise. Ahh...compromise is the key to marriage.

bluong1

Pardon for my old post, it's so obscure when I reread it. English is not my native language, and I even never learn it in school, so please go easy with me. I think I was saying exactly the same than you:

1) broken belt: no harm for the engine as the valves is stationary (but piston moving)

2) But my point is overrev is a different phenomenon: valves and pistons move in an unsynchronized and uncontrolled way. Collision between valves and piston can still happen in a non-interference engine.

Bruno

bluong1