Mazda Protege5

dagpotter

Pretty neat...you caused his website to receive so many hits it used up its bandwidth quota. I don't know, it just doesn't look the same without the rails. Anyone tried using their roof rack yet?

shrique

Does anyone know what the major mechanical difference is between a Protege ES and a Protege5. I know the strut tower bar but I was curious if there was anything else. LIke is the suspension a bit tighter etc.

the_big_h

except the hatch and the inherent structural stiffness difference between the P5 and the ES. Rear spring rates may also be different since the P5's rear is heavier.

but I'm just guessing, maltb or jerry would have the best answer. Or you can always call Mazda USA and ask

protege_fan

I've read the P5 doesn't have rear sway bars b/c of the hatch back. Look it up though as I'm not 100% sure.

shrique

Really? I figured it would from the way it feels. I Own a P5 but I haven't really looked into the ins and outs of an ES suspension. I pretty much just went right to the P5. The last Protege I drove was an 99 ES. I wasn't incredibly impresses with the engine (although it was a slushbox).

subyaudidude

the P5 does have a rear stabilizer bar.

protege_fan

Like I said, do a search. I read it once or twice, but I'm not too sure

I am NOT trying to post misinformation here!!!!

newcar31

The P5 does have a rear stabilizer bar. What it doesn't have is the rear strut towers braced like the sedan. Theorhetically, if you put a front strut tower bar on the sedan, it will handle better than the P5 because the structure is inherently stiffer and it is lighter.

protege_fan

Thanks for straightening that out. I thought there was something that the P5 didn't have because of the hatch.

maltb

I think it's the rear bracing that you are referring to. To keep the cargo area versatile, the P5's rear strut towers are a bit more free to flex. Bracing is rather simple to make for someone so inclined.

edit- damn I'm slow...

mudflat

The front and rear roll centers are supposed to be diferent on the P5.

silver_bullet

I've owned cars with and without ABS, and I can take it or leave it, but I won't pay extra for it if the manufacturer forces me to buy other totally non-related options I don't want - like a sunroof, for example. I find this sort of marketing ploy to be very offensive, and I'm sorry to see Mazda playing these sorts of games.

protege_fan

I don't think it's just Mazda doing it. Are there any other cars in the same class that offer ABS standard across all trim levels? I don't think so.

Mazda HAS to try to be competitive in the market. It is terrible that it is being done at the expense of safety, but welcome to the Free Market economy.

shrique

I don't think anyone is as bad as Toyota when it comes to the options games. Man! Try to price out a lower end toyota Tacoma some time with a couple of good options. I mean to get something like a sunroof you have to buy an extra $1500 in options on junk I don't want. (before anyone yells at me that's an estimate as I havn't priced one for a while)

protege_fan

I agree...Option A, B, or c? Bite me! Just let ME pick the dang options I want!

vilainefemme

Well, you do realize that it's easier (and cheaper) for manufacturers to create option packages instead of customizing every single car. I'm sure they try to group them into reasonable packages, but they can't read your minds on what you specifically would like on a vehicle.

protege_fan

but it's very limiting and frustrating to the consumer too.

silver_bullet

I never said Mazda was alone in this practice - I'd bet the Toyota folks are worse... I won't even consider one of their cars due to the obnoxious practices of Gulf States Toyota, the group that doles out cars in my part of the country. My only point is you shouldn't have to buy a frivolous item (sunroof) to be able to order a safety item (ABS).

shrique

Your right, I was just stating that even thought it's really irritating that they do it at all, mazda's practice is nothing compared to other companies. In my case I happened to want both ABS and sunroof so I was just fine with it. (GRIN)

dsm6

Nissan is also really bad about that.

shrique

At one time I was thinking about buying a small pickup. The only ones worth my time were the Tacoma and the Frontier. both of which are impossible to pick and choose options on.

You know what happened to automation enabling us to customize our lives like shoes that are fit to our feet or jeans cut to our size. I thought that stuff was right around the corner? I know that at one time auto companies were talking about being able to custom build a car to whatever the customer wanted with a minimum of expense. I guess they were just blowing steam out of their $$$'s

dsm6

It seems that auto makers have taken a step backwards on this. For example, once upon a time you could order certain makes in any color that was in the manufacturers palette.

silver_bullet

Assuming you are willing to wait, you can order a MINI Cooper with just about any option combo you desire. They do have packaged options, but all of the items in the packages are available individually if you want to "have it your way".

dsm6

I saw my first street going new-Mini today : a Mini Cooper S. Now there's a hip hatch that can handle. It made me wish I could be that impractical. Not I, though; I'm a family man. ;-)

jstandefer

Unfortunately, only an extremely small percentage of car buyers are willing to wait 8-10 weeks for a custom ordered vehicle. Since the Protege5 is built in Japan, this wait could easily be 3 or 4 months. Are you willing to wait that long? Most people are not, and even though someone may place a deposit and order a vehicle, many times they will cancel their order leaving the dealership with a vehicle with sometimes strange options.

The domestic manufacturers still allow custom ordering on many vehicles, particularly trucks. However, allowing custom orders really kills the efficiency of a production line and the vehicles become more expensive because less of them are being built per day. Almost every Japanese make and model cannot be custom ordered, but this allows the Japanese production lines to be much more efficient and the customer benefits from cheaper costs.

The manufacturers conduct massive (and expensive) demographic campaigns to determine what option packages to group together. With Mazda, they have found that the majority of people who want ABS (concerned about safety) also want the side airbags. Hence, the ABS & Side Airbag group. They apparently have also found most people willing to pay for this option also want the moonroof. They should just package all three together along with floor mats into a Premium Package like they do with the sedans.

protege_fan

I wanted a 5-speed, a/c, ABS, and power locks in black mica, all in an LX. That EXACT car was on the lot when I made the deal. Guess I got lucky

alternator

The much maligned (I believe unfairly) 2002 Chevrolet Cavalier has ABS braking standard in all trims.

protege_fan

Ugh...I stand somewhat corrected then. I should have said, "show me a GOOD car in the same class." My bad

Sorry...I'm not a fan of the Crapalier <----Thanks Meade!!

mazdafun

Ha ha.

My 2 cents: I wish I could get the ABS w/ side air bags w/o having to get the moonroof. I just don't fit into a Pro or P5 (or most cars) with a moonroof. As it is, I'll forgo the ABS so I can avoid back and neck problems from scrunching down to avoid bumping my head.

shrique

hehehe, I like that. (chuckle) I hate the Crapalier myself. I think "unrefined" is the word to use. "you know those hubcabs are really unrefined" It just fits the crapalier so well. I just wish they wouldn't have pushed the replacement out to the 2004+ model year. I'm anxious to see if GM will rise to the occasion and make a worthy competitor to other small cars in the market.

audia8q

2003 info...

I got some basic info on the 2003 P5...

1 new color...laser blue (same as MP3)

The power moonroof package will include a 6 disc in-dash changer. All automatics will have the sport-shift trans.
Polished alloy's will require the moonroof and cd package. Most accessories will return.

This is all the info I have right now...

Rich

shrique

I like that Blue. Hate the tie-ins with options though. Man! AT least they could TRY and tie together things that might be related. Wheels and CD changers arent remotely close.

protege_fan

I love that blue colour too!! It's really close to the Rally blue of the WRX...Too bad my gf HATES that colour

mazdafun

I like that blue a lot too. Might be my first non-bright-red car.

Didn't want the polished alloys anyway...shows scratches so easily.

subyaudidude

One thing I noticed on the P5 is that most of the standard equipment (16" alloys, fog lights, keyless entry, rear spoiler) should be options, while some of the options (ABS/side airbags) should be standard equipment. I think, though maybe I'm wrong, that more people might prefer a P5 w/ 15" alloys and ABS/side airbags than a P5 w/ 16" alloys and no ABS/SAB. Just a thought.

protege_fan

I would prefer you option package "B"

Seriously...I would take ABS/side air bags over 16" alloys any day.

sunbyrne

While I agree that Mazda should "unbundle" those options, I'm actually glad they did it, because otherwise I wouldn't have gotten the moonroof, and I *love* my moonroof. But yes, in principle, they should be separate options.

Sporin

I think it's perfect the way it is, but Side Airbags, ABS, and Moonroof shoudl be SEPERATE add-ons, not bundles.

riopelle

i like that there are few options on this car. 16" wheels and fogs maximize it's sporty potential, so you have just one sporty car with ABS optional for the safety concerned and a moonroof for open air lovers. It's much preferable than the matrix or even pro sedan multi - levels, imho.

Bet there are more levels on the next gen though.

subyaudidude

The problem is, the safety concerned must become open air lovers, or vice-versa. While I like the fact that there are few options to some degree, I just think some options should've been standard and some standard equipment should've been options.

riopelle

Valid point. I guess it's also a matter of Mazda being a small co. relative to the toyotas and VW's of the world. Is your outback the redesign with the round headlights? Nice car.

[Deleted User]

Any idea how much extra the 6-disc changer will add to the moonroof price?

audia8q

No word on pricing for the 03 yet...

My guess, and its only speculation, they will do a package price discount....similar to the moonroof and alloy wheels package on the Protege4 LX. Maybe not as aggressive but similar. I will keep everyone updated on the 2003 info as I get it...

Rich

kizeh

I bought my P5 last fall, when they were still quite a bit more expensive than now ;-) Anyhow, at that time the dealer claimed that to get side impact airbags, I'd have to pick ABS and a moonroof as well, which added several thousand dollars to the price. I personally would really like side impact air bags, and wouldn't mind ABS, but don't care for the moonroof. Similarly, I'd love an engine immobilizer, but am not interested in the full alarm system. In total the price of options was way too high.

That being said, here are a few other points. First, I really liked what came standard with the car. All the driveability enhancements are fairly expensive add-ons with competitors. Too bad security wasn't quite as high on the list.

Second, as I plan to keep this car for a while, both ABS and side air bags--as much as they do add to safety--are also big-ticket items to fix when they break. I feel more comfortable knowing that I can use the money I'd have used for fixing them or getting a long extended warranty on something else. Like gas or rubber to zoom-zoom some more!

protege_fan

You would sacrifice safety for money????? Maybe it's just me, but I don't care how much it costs to get fixed...if it adds safety, I'll take it.

What if you get into an accident? Would you then be glad that you didn't have to pay for that side air bag going off and would have saved your head from slamming into the door??

Safety features are like insurance, BUT they work actively to save your life whereas insurance only covers your butt after something happens.

Sorry for the rant and I'm not trying to flame you. Maybe I even misunderstood your post...but I just find it unbelieveable.

meinrad

sacrifice safety for money within reason. I didn't want to pay for side airbags and abs, but since I wanted a sunroof, I got them too. Therefore paying more than I wanted. Now I think I'll always pay for brakes, hard to stop without them. But unless it's pushed on me by packages or because it's standard equipment, I will never pay extra for more airbags, abs, parachute, or whatever else someone deems safer.

protege_fan

Fair enough. We can agree to disagree

BTW, I'd be ALL over that parachute! Hahahaha!

subyaudidude

but only if it were color-keyed like the bumpers.

tincup47

Side Airbags/ABS and Moonroof was an $800.00 MSRP option when I bought mine last November. Not "several thousand dollars" as you were told. I thought it was quite a bargain myself, although at first I didn't think I wanted the moonroof. I have no headroom issues even at 6'2".

dsm6

That $800 would just be for the abs/side air bags. Another $700 MSRP would be added for the moonroof bringing the total to $1500 MSRP. Yes, the prices are listed separately even though they are packaged together.