Mazda Protege5

noeleon

Yes, everything's included. I am from Sacramento, CA area.

noeleon

A dealer in the Bay Area is advertising a PR5 for $2,500.00 under MSRP. I talked to the Fleet Manager about the car and he mentioned something that the car is a loss leader, any idea? It has 6 miles on it and manufactured 05/01.

sunbyrne

Well, I'm not sure what the term "loss leader" means in this context, but manufactured 05/2001? That means it's been sitting for quite a while...

sharonf

thanks maltb...think I'll just settle for what I get.....not too much wanting that 7-8? hr drive to Oregon!
Thanks for the info too Suby....I'm sure the auto does decrease the mpg...and seeing that yours is about 3-4mpg more makes sense.

wjk57

Hi Everyone. I bought my BRAND NEW PR5 about a month ago. Last week I took it into the dealership to check my gas mileage. While the car was there, one of their mechanics backed another car into mine smashing the RF headlight, denting the RF fender and scraping the front bumper. They said they would fix it ASAP. Well, a week later they told me it was ready and when I went to pick it up, there was still some slight damage to the vehicle. I was so aggravated, disappointed, frustrated, and stressed out over all this. I wrote a letter to the GM of the dealership. They keep saying there goal is to make me satisfied and happy, but I've seen very little of it. I feel they owe me some type of "goodwill" or "We're Sorry this happened" compensation for all the crap I've gone through for the past week. They called me this evening and told me that they could put me in a new vehicle -- different color,but same options. They would take my car back as a trade-in and give me this new PR5 FOR AN ADDITIONAL $2800!!!!!! THEY DAMAGED MY CAR, BUT NOW THEY'LL TAKE IT BACK AND GIVE ME ANOTHER OF THE SAME STICKED PRICE IF I GIVE THEM MORE MONEY! ANYONE OUT THERE WHO HAS ANY OPINIONS ON THIS? AM I EXPECTING TOO MUCH FOR THEM TO OFFER ME A FEW FREEBIES IN EXCHANGE FOR THE HELL I'VE GONE THROUGH WITH MY brand new car? BILL

silver_bullet

Have an attorney write them a simple demand letter outlining your concerns and stating what you want in the way of restitution. I would suggest not confusing the issue by asking for "freebies" in exchange for the damage they did - stay focused on your car and the damage they did to it. Dealerships have to carry insurance for this kind of thing, and that is ultimately the pocket you are going after. Once they see you are going to play hardball, they should be more willing to make you happy. Good luck.

mazdafun

Creasing sheetmetal can seriously degrade its resistance to corrosion since the anti-corrosion layers have been cracked. This may not be that obvious from the back side since it's hidden.

meinrad

is your car fixed properly. If they want to throw you a bone, thats up to them, but they are in no way required to do so.

What if you run into someone and scratch their car? You'd be willing to pay for the damage, but would you be willing to pay for anthing else? No way. So why should the dealer be giving you "freebies"?

Make them fix your car, make them give you a rental, but that's it. It stinks, but thats what's right.

subyaudidude

Essentially, all you "deserve" is to be back in the same position you were in prior to them damaging your car. This can be done one of two ways. First, they can repair your car, and give you a free loaner car in the meantime. Or, they can give you a new car at no cost to you. It's not really cost-effective for them to do the latter, so they should just fix your car.

That said, a dealership should, IMHO, perhaps give you a little something extra. Maybe a free accessory ... maybe some free maintenance coupons. My guess is the loaner car is nowhere near a P5 (probably a Pro DX/LX). Thus, you are "damaged" in that you had to drive a lesser car for the period of time it took them to fix your car.

If the dealer is unwilling to work with you on this, I'd find myself another dealer if I were you.

protege_fan

What I can't believe is that they offered to give you a new car IF you paid them $2800!!

I'm curious though....if the dealership repairs the car to "like new", it's still not new, is it? They would have to file an insurance claim against that VIN right?

If you went to sell the car, a potential buyer would then see that the car was in an accident and may balk at the chance to buy the car because of that.

If that's the case, shouldn't they give you a new car?

silver_bullet

That is what you are describing here. It is true that they don't have an obligation to "better" his previous position -- he came in with a "used" car, and giving him a new car as a replacement without expecting him to pay isn't right from their perspective. They could give you a new car, but they'd expect compensation for the use and depreciation of the damaged car. Having said that, it can be argued that their damage has diminished the value of your car, especially if you try to sell it, because it now has a damage history and will likely be worth less to a buyer. All of this needs to be considered, and a deal needs to be struck with the offending service department/dealership.

Sporin

A few years back, I had a dealership back a tow hitched truck into the front bumper of my Civic while I was test drivng another car. I already had some dings and scrratches in it (urethane bumper).

They repainted it beautifully and quickly... your shop should do the same.

I wonder why they are futzing around? It doesn't make sense.

the_big_h

here are pictures I took at the DC Grand Prix that took place last weekend. Check out those racing Protege, especially that black/green P5!!!



more pictures at:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291580451

wjk57

but I have to take it back again because there are a few minor flaws that need to be corrected. I guess my big beef is that my car was ONLY 3 WEEKS OLD when this damage occurred. MY NEW CAR has already been in an accident, and it was at the hands of the dealership! For all the inconvenience, the temporary loss of use of my vehicle, and the tremendous amount of frustration, aggravation, and grief this incident has caused, makes me feel that some type of "goodwill" compensation is warranted. Yes, they did provide a rental car for me (a Nissan Sentra from a local car rental business), but THAT and the repairs are what the dealership is obligated, and possibly legally responsible, to do! They have continually told me from the inception of the sale, that their goal is to do whatever thay can to make me happy. Well, I've seen very little of that so far. I guess they are only serious about making me happy if it doesn't cost them a dime in the process.

sharonf

I totally feel that you should be compensated in some other way in addition to the repairs being done - and DO NOT settle for repairs that are not up to the quality you expect. I really can understand your frustration....having the new car....which...if you're like many of us....you were probably babying and trying to be as safe as possible w/in terms of dings/scratches etc.
You bring your car to the dealer...and one would think that they would exercise a certain degree of care and professionalism...and this has not been your experience.
Then....you are w/out your new car for all the time it's in the shop...and the rental does not compare. I know...cuz I had to bring mine in within the first couple weeks due to a small scratch in the leather I discovered the first night. I was soooo sad leaving the P5 there! And they were giving me crap too....but ultimately switched out my whole seat with one from another car.
To charge you $2800 for the new one is ridiculous....they already profited when you bought the 1st one for sure....and due to no fault of your own they want to charge you another $2800 for the new car? Some...most? of these dealers are a real piece of work(no offense Maltb!)

tincup47

to get some goodwill, and probably good business, it is not a legal right. The dealerships legal obligation is the same as any other individual or company, to fix your car.Your vehicle could have just as easily been backed into by any other vehicle. If it had been a commercial delivery truck it would have been the same, they would have had to pay to fix your car and your rental bill, that is all. You would have no claim to diminished value or mental anguish, especially in a fender bender.

subyaudidude

that the dealership is legally responsible to offer anything above fixing the vehicle and giving him a rental car. Obviously that's not the case. But I think most people on this board would say that the dealership should offer something above and beyond just putting him back into square one. As you said, tincup, it's probably good business. If my dealership didn't offer me something, I think I would probably take my business elsewhere, especially if the repairs were done in a shoddy/incomplete manner the first time. Of course, I'm pretty confident that my dealership would crash my car in the first place.

protege_fan

Did you mean this?
"Of course, I'm pretty confident that my dealership would crash my car in the first place.

subyaudidude

That should read:
"Of course, I'm pretty confident that my dealership would NOT crash my car in the first place."

DOH!

vocus

The car got messed up at the dealership? That has never happend to me, but I am sure it does. A shame they would not replace your car, because it's now a car that was in an accident and that will cause it to lose some value. My 2001 Protege was scraped on the left front when it was 3 weeks old, out front of my house. They had to remove the fender to paint it. I took the car to get appraised for trade at Carmax, and they told me I lost $2000 instantly when they turned those fender bolts to repaint the fender. I would bring this up to the car dealership, and would also get a lawyer.

subyaudidude

is that it's too speculative to determine how much the value of the vehicle has gone down. The law works, for the most part, in probabilities and certainties, not possibilities. Proving how much of a dimunition in value was caused by the accident would be too difficult. Let's say his car was hit by Joe Schmo on Main Street. He probably wouldn't be able to recover for dimunition in value in that case and he probably can't in this case.

subyaudidude

"You may be entitled to a diminished-value claim in some states Diminished value is based on the idea that any car that has been in an accident, regardless of how well the repairs are done, is worth less than the exact same car that hasn't been in an accident.

What you can do: In 14 states, it's allowable for you to file a claim for that lost value. Thirty-six states and Washington, D.C., do allow insurance companies to exclude payments for diminished value, so if you live in one of those states, you won't get to claim the loss. But in Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Kansas, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, North Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Virginia, Washington and West Virginia, you have a chance of getting a diminished value payment. Successful cases are also generally made against the at-fault driver's insurance by a third party."

dwryter

If your state permits you to seek damages for diminished value and you want to do so, proceed. If not, you are much more likely to receive some goodwill gesture if you figure out what you want, and write a letter to the owner of the dealership asking for it. Your request must, of course, be something the dealership would considerable reasonable. I might ask for one of the following: A 5-year warranty against fading or peeling of the repainted portions of the car (if the repair shop doesn't already offer this); complementary services (oil changes, etc.) for one year; or a free detail job six months or one year down the road.

Be courteous in your letter, describing just how painful the experience has been, acknowledging that the dealership isn't required to do this, but that you believe it to be a fair request. Remember, it's up to them whether to grant it. Say in the letter that you'd like to continue thinking of the dealership as your mechanic, the place you feel free to recommend, and where you'll feel comfortable buying your next car. But you feel you deserve this extra gesture due to the time, effort, and upset the adventure has cost you. If you write a good, persuasive, even-tempered letter, I think you have an excellent chance of getting what you ask for. Best of luck.

subyaudidude

Very well put.

sharonf

I'm not agreeing to the theory that this situation is the same as some guy/woman hitting your car on the street.
Your car was in the hands/care of the mazda dealer from which you recently bought a $19000? car. For that reason, I feel they, as supposed professionals, should be held to a little higher standard/consequence than joe schmo on the street.

alternator

You are so absolutely right on this issue!

eleets00

have found my next vehicle!!! I test drove a Pro5... WOW!!! I must be crazy, but I like the Pro5 better than my 2000 Grand Prix GT. Oh, yeah I pretty much figured because this will be my only car (& kinda clumsy w/ankles, sprained left one this afternoon) I'm gonna go w/the auto sport shift. That's the one I drove today. Loved it. Good acceleration & handling, stereo could be better & will be. The only thing is the dealership & I are way off on price/payments. Trying to have me pay $450-$500/mo because of my negative equity. They're really trying to screw me there. I have 0% on the Grand Prix, & owe retail value. They are really low balling me. This car is a want, not a necessesity. Any suggestions, tips, etc to get them to eat most of the negative equity? Or should I wait til the end of September when I know they're gonna want the 02's off the lot? (Sorry for the novel)

tincup47

You may feel this way, alot of people on these boards may. But actually there is no difference. Is the sense of loss any different? There may be more of a sense of indignance, but the actual loss and degree of damages suffered is the same. I wonder if you had been parked picking up a freind at an auto dealership that you did not buy the car from and one of their employees hit your car, would you feel they had any more or less obligation to do more than repair your auto?

subyaudidude

There is a slight difference. When you drop your car off at a dealership, you are entrusting them with your car. They have presented themselves to you as someone to trust, and in crashing your car they broke that trust. One does not have that same "feeling" with Joe Schmoe, or with another random dealership. True, legally, there is no difference, but how you process it may be different because of that "trust" factor.

tincup47

I agree with you on that, but accidents happen everywhere. I just have a problem with all the moral outrage over this issue, and the sense that the person had some special entitlement to a new car or some other special perks over and above what anyone else would be responsible for. If the person was unhappy with the repair, they can have it sent to a neutral shop and have them fix it to their satisfaction, then bill the dealer. The dealer's insurance does have the same obligation to repair the vehicle and recompence the owner for rental bills as any other insurance carrier. The dealer should go further to make it right, but it has to be proportionate to compensate for the actual loss. Getting a new car for a fender bender is really a bit much.

sharonf

To answer your question....subyaudidude somewhat answered for me.......NO...I wouldn't feel the same in the situation you put forth because I did not just shell out nearly $20K for a new car from that place. In the actual situation....he did...and a month later....due to negligence on the part of the employee of that very dealership...he no longer has a new car. I never said he should get a brand new car.....and possibly legally you are right that repair to prior condition is the only thing warranted....but ethically....I definitely think they should do more.

sharonf

Appreciate the support....things can get a lil fiesty on here sometimes!

mro

Hello everyone. I've been reading your posts for a few weeks while i decided which car to buy, and i'm happy to say that i took delivery of my new Protege5 this morning. I got a silver P5 with manual transmission, leather interior, sunroof, and auto-dimming rearview mirror. The rearview mirror seems unnecessary, but i couldn't find a P5 with leather without it. Kudos to Tom Wood Mazda in Indianapolis. I called them Wednesday and told them i wanted a silver or blue P5 with leather interior and manual tranny. They located one 210 miles away in Ohio, traded with the dealer, and had it ready for delivery this morning.
I love this car! Sure, it could use 170 hp, but it's certainly not slow. The leather is a bargain at $490. It brings the P5 upscale a notch or two. The handling's terrific, the seats are wonderfully comfortable, and the miles slipped by on my way home from Indy this morning very quietly. None of these qualities could be used to describe the Jeep Cherokee that I drove for the last three years.
Throw in 0.0% financing for 48 months and no payments until January, and this deal was hard to pass up. I'm glad I went with the P5.

bmclaughlin1

This past Monday we took delivery of our new P5.
It is the refresh model, 5 speed, moonroof, no ABS. We had the dealer install a 6 disc changer, moonroof deflector, and compass/temp self dimming mirror. It is red and had 2 miles on it. My wife has had the car mostly, though I was able to pry it away from her today. It is wonderful so far.
By the way, our family has 2 other Proteges, an 01 ES, 5 Speed, and an 01 LX Automatic. While the 5 speeds are a blast to drive, the automatic is really nice also. We average 28-32 mpg with the 01's and have had absolutely no problems with either of them in the first year of ownership.

Bill

sharonf

to Mro and bmclaughlin1! Isn't it exciting I've had mine almost 3 months now....and love it!

mustang87

meinrad, i am sorry but i tottaly disagree with you. When you take your car to a dealership you expect them to return it to you in a good condition, not all messed up. He deserves to receive damages, his BRAND NEW car lost value allready. Get a lawyer, write to mazda and don't give up. in my opinion there is no such thing as "it'll be like new" after the car has been in an accident, any type. and when somebody scratches my car even accidentally, i wish they suffer till the end of their miserable life.

BTW, welcome to all the new people who bought P5's or other proteges. Hope you are a regular here from now on.
Does anybody else live in North Caroline near Blue Ridge Parkway? My club is planning on making a trip up there in september. It would be nice to know what is there to do, where we can stop at a cheap but good hotels/motels, or safe campsites where to sleep.
Thanks.

xeones

HEY I WAVE TO OTHER Protege5 Drivers and I hope you do to. I use to sell Mazdas and it is absolutely true that Mazda people are a little different. I wouldn't take me more then a minute or two of talking to someone to figure out if the "get" Mazda, as in get excited over things like optimized suspension and steering system. NOT MAZDA PEOPLE want to know where the "auto-lock" door feature is and why an automatic tranny is extra.

So if you are ever in Camdemn County NJ and you see a red 2002 P5 on the road, give a wave.

Windjamr

mustang87

unfortunately as more and more people buy p5's, I find less and less people who wave back to me or flash their lights back. I could be in yellow p5 at light next to them and they either completely ignore me, or don't see me. Oh well, I am glad I am in a club and we get together and have fun even though other people are stuck up.

wjk57

to everyone whoi has given me advice on the topic of my damaged car. BUT, let me set the record straight... I DID NOT expect them to replace my 3-week old car with a new one. I DID expect them to offer some type of compensation -- over and above repairing my car and providing a rental until mine was repaired -- because they were careless and they created a situation which greatly added to the depreciation of my car. Also, my VIN now has an accident report attached to it, negatively affecting the resale value. Are they OBLIGATED to do so? NO. As good business and to show that they value their customers, YES. I DID write a polite letter explaining my concerns and grief over this situation. The Dealership replied that they were only offeing a replacement for my car IF I traded in my new/damaged vehicle plus $2800. That's the only option they would consider - no free extended warranty. No free car washes or oil changes. Nothing to appease my feelings of frustration and aggravation. Therefore, I will take my car elsewhere for service and not reccommend them to anyone i know who is looking to buy a new car. I have also filed a complaint with the CEO and National Sales Directors of Mazda N.A. Operations, as well as with the BBB. It may not get me anywhere, but i feel better.

OK, NO MORE ON THE SUBJECT!! I'm sure other people have horror stories about poor treatment from dealers as well. I just needed to vent. Thanks.

barresa62

Not to drag on with your unpleasant experience but I just wanted to add that your expectations or hopes were/are reasonable with the dealer. Additionally, you've done what you can do to take control of the situation. The dealer has lost not only your future business (service and possibly new purchases), but also that of others I'm sure. You mentioned that the dealer wanted to make the situation "right". IMO,they failed considerably and really need a refresher course in Business101. Good luck going forward.

Stephen :-)

mnkyboy

Let the dealer replace your car, and you pay him $2,800 bucks. AS LONG AS, the dealer pays your car note off. Then you would only be paying $2,800 for your Protege.

coastcruiser

I test drove the Focus 5dr, Matrix, and Protege5; looked at but didn't drive the Elantra GT. I surf, windsurf, mtnbike and cart around an Australian Shepherd almost everywhere I go, so I wanted SPACE (traded a Minivan-spoiled me for lotsa room!). Matrix had the room with those nifty fold-flat seats (the extra front folding helped for surfboards), but like others, I found the handling only so-so. Kinda liked the looks of the Matrix even if they're strange. The P5 on the other hand...OH MY GAWD! Truly had tears in my eyes driving 200 miles home from the dealer it was so sweet! Crisp, sporty, safe, tight, plenty of power for me, divine seats, great interior layout and ergonomics - the "feel"!! You do hafta drive one to see for yourself. The test drives were great, but that nice long ride up the coast - Whoo boy! It outstripped the competition for me, even with my need for space. There's enough room for my wife and I to go windsurf with 2 boards on top (that handy rack), quiver of 5 sails, 2 booms, 2 masts, misc. gear, wetsuits, helmets, etc. - and the DOG! Alone, I can get my 8'9" board inside (front pass.seat folded fully backwards). It's not the minivan, but it is SOOOOoooo much fun to tool around in, I don't miss it. The rack and hatch make for a very useable rig. Ok, we cant do 5 weeks in Baja so easily as in the minivan, but hey... As langiappe, it's great looking. I couldn't be happier with my choice. I am one tickled coast cruiser... Mazda, you've created a monster (me ;}

coastcruiser

When I test-drove the P5 I finally bought, it had dealer-added $1700 wheels and tires (too 20-something for my 60-something tastes), but I had to keep them on till the next day - and my experience was that these made the ride SOOO harsh compared to the stock Dunlops I swapped to the next day. I wonder if those (including professional reviewers) who felt the ride was rough had different (ultra low provile?)tires. It made a huge difference. I was willling to live with it, but it was an unexpected negative. Imagine my relif (OH MY GAWD!)on the ride home next day...I am truly impressed at Mazda for what they've accomplished in a small pkg.
Question: Anybody know if you can buy the leather shift knob of the mid-cycle refresh at the dealers?

silver_bullet

If it has a part number, you can most likely order anything you want from the parts dept. - just add money!

bluong1

the leather one is:

1) more comfortable?
2) easier to shift?
3) both 1 and 2?
4) none of the above?

Comments please.

Bruno

bluong1

It's actually nice to see someone who does all kind of sport appreciates P5 driving spirit. This car is so selfish, only the driver can fully enjoy.

Zoom-zoom

Bruno

subyaudidude

I test drove both a pre-refresh and a refresh and I preferred the leather shift knob. I like the "joystick" style of the leather shifter better than the "golf ball" style of the pre-refresh shifter. I also found that it was easier to shift, but that's because of how I like to hold my stick in my hand. I prefer to hold the shaft in my hand with my thumb atop or wrapped around the top of the stick. That's just not possible with the pre-refresh shift knob.

And everyone get your minds out of the gutter!!

vilainefemme

I've found that the aluminum(?) of the pre-refresh shifter gets very hot after sitting in the sun for a long time. Ouch! But I like the look of it better than the leather version.

Jess

wayde

I too prefer the look of the golf ball style shifter - which I have I like the feel of it too. It's rare for me to like the older style of anything more than the newer. (Oh, except for my old GS-R, like the looks better than RSX ... but like the drive of the RSX-S better.)

bluong1

Thanks for the comments Actually my previous concern with the new leather shift knob is because it seems like the round shift knob allows more holding positions (it's round, i.e., similar from any angle). So I'm surprise when you say:

"...That's just not possible with the pre-refresh shift knob."

Btw, isn't those red low cars called Ferrari have a round shift knob?

Bruno