2005 Subaru Legacy
sube555lgt
Member Posts: 78
The rumor mill is starting to really ramp up. Now I won't give away all details, but I am hearing a 2.5GT with 250hp and plenty of torque. It is also said to very potentially carry a 6MT (probably for less warranty claims because of driver carelessness) as well as the 5EAT.
The word on the street is that they are still researching potential pricing on this matter. I would like to know where everyone sits on this. Now, I do know that everyone would like these for free, but try to be reasonable.
My ideas:
-BASE includes: Cloth Interior, Manually-Adjusting Seats, No Sunroof, Manual Transmission, 6-Disc CD Changer w/ current premium sound (NOT Macintosh.)
*BASE Sedan GT: 25,595-25,995
*BASE Wagon GT: 25,995-26,395
Limited or Premium Packages include: Power Leather Seating, Sunroof, Macintosh Audio
*Sedan GT: 26,995-27,495
*Wagon GT: 27,395-27,995
That would price these VERY competitively and rather reasonable. Taking away the luxury amenities (leather, power seats, etc.) for those that just want the sport and room should allow the Legacy to drop right into the given slots with the major upgrades and the cost difference. I would like to say I would love a base wagon in Silver but can't really afford to go above $26,000. I would settle for a sedan if need be. Anything significantly higher and I think they would be marketing themselves out of their price range. At this pricing, I think these vehicles would sell like hotcakes. Even if the BASE-type model was available only by order only, it would be well worth it for Subaru in my opinion.
Any thoughts?
The word on the street is that they are still researching potential pricing on this matter. I would like to know where everyone sits on this. Now, I do know that everyone would like these for free, but try to be reasonable.
My ideas:
-BASE includes: Cloth Interior, Manually-Adjusting Seats, No Sunroof, Manual Transmission, 6-Disc CD Changer w/ current premium sound (NOT Macintosh.)
*BASE Sedan GT: 25,595-25,995
*BASE Wagon GT: 25,995-26,395
Limited or Premium Packages include: Power Leather Seating, Sunroof, Macintosh Audio
*Sedan GT: 26,995-27,495
*Wagon GT: 27,395-27,995
That would price these VERY competitively and rather reasonable. Taking away the luxury amenities (leather, power seats, etc.) for those that just want the sport and room should allow the Legacy to drop right into the given slots with the major upgrades and the cost difference. I would like to say I would love a base wagon in Silver but can't really afford to go above $26,000. I would settle for a sedan if need be. Anything significantly higher and I think they would be marketing themselves out of their price range. At this pricing, I think these vehicles would sell like hotcakes. Even if the BASE-type model was available only by order only, it would be well worth it for Subaru in my opinion.
Any thoughts?
0
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Comments
Basically, I think that a loaded Legacy needs to come in at the base price of a G35. If we're talking a G35 AWD, that will probably be about $32,000. Premium (sunroof, Bose, seat memory, power passenger, reclining rear seat, dual zone climate, etc.) is another $3200. If the Legacy doesn't hit this price, I may have a really hard time justifying the Subaru over an Infiniti.
L: delete moonroof, but keep the price the same with a slight boost in power, bigger interior, and a few extra niceties
GT: 2.5 turbo engine substitute heated leather seats, keep pricing close to current car, maybe $500 higher. That's what I would want.
GT Limited: equipped like the current 2.5GT, just $2000 more for the turbo.
The current 2.5GT doesn't sell in significant volumes largely due to the price/performance. Meanwhile the L/SE is HOT and sells well, as a great value.
-juice
I don't think the pricing I have up there is too far out on a limb. They used to market two varieties, a GT and GT Limited as Ateixeira mentioned. But I do see room in that line-up for yet another model. 6 models (assuming wagon and sedans of each trim) would be about minimal, right now the Outbacks are finally down to 8 (10 in 2003) models. (I just happened to look at the Subaru site which must have been updated for 2004 Legacy and Outback models with the Legacy now bearing 2 models each in Sedan/Wagon. I also notice the color selection has been updated too. Just looking over the 2004 selection, looks like they're moving in the right direction. I can see what they mean by upscale, doesn't look too significant, but none-the-less, a good change.
Back to models, as looking at the current GT Sedan and Wagon priced at 25,095 and 25,995 respectively, there is some room to play with. I don't know how many people over here frequent NASIOC and here, but on NASIOC a couple of months back there was a huge debate brewing, many want the option of opting out of leather and power seats to make way for a better price and that is something many enthusiasts don't want. We've been crying for such a car. Making those components (cloth interior, perhaps manual adjusting seats if some of us are lucky), as an optional order-only delete Premium Seating would work fine. This wouldn't be a significant amount of work for SOA and would constitute for a small number of sales, none-the-less still sales. Other contries can have their GT this way, why can't the largest market on the planet as well? With the currently over-inflated GT pricing, loss of leather, the GT with turbo and performance upgrades over current could fall into the prcing slot perfectly. The GT Wagon may go above the pricing slot by a marginal amount though.
Here is how I see the models:
Legacy S Sedan (signify 'Sport') similar to L Anniv. - $20,995
Legacy S Wagon (signify 'Sport') similar to L Anniv. - $21,895
Legacy ST Sedan ('Sport Touring') using 04 GT Brakes/ Rear LSD/ 2.5L AVCS engine w/ 200/200 and sporty suspension - $22,495
Legacy ST Wagon ('Sport Touring') using 04 GT Brakes/ Rear LSD/ 2.5L AVCS engine w/ 200/200 and sporty suspension - $23,395
Legacy GT Sedan ('Grand Touring') with as mentioned but in cloth, manual seats - $25,595-25,995
Legacy GT Wagon ('Grand Touring') with as mentioned but in cloth, manual seats - $25,995-26,395
Legacy GT Limited models include: Power Leather Heated Seats, Macintosh Audio, Security Pack - $add 1,500-2,000
As looking at current line-up, moonroofs are standard and good for the up-scale image. I don't think this increadibly unreasonable. Making a line of performance suspension, brake, drivetrain, and performance parts available that STi makes available in Japan would make these models still affordable if optioned out further for performance enhancements if Subaru would decide to. Also, being the competition of V6 models to the GT being slightly priced below those levels would make these models rather available and a worthy alternative to those 'Plain Jane' models. I really don't think this is too large a line-up.
PPower, I think we can leave the $30k+ range for a future STi model. Pricing these models in this range would make them sell like hotcakes. In this market, it's all about affordability and value, pricing in the $30k range bar STi models and top of the line Outback models is rediculous IMHO. You're not adding that significant a package to raise the price $5,000. The current GT I would value at $1,500 less than it really costs, that's about halfway priced between a L Anniversary model and a GT, that's about how much better a GT is than an L Anniv. BTW, the Forester XT in semi comparable form to what I'd be looking for in the interior with the chassis changes and slightly upgrade engine comes in $1,000 below my suggested base Legacy GT pricing. That's just some food for thought.
Anyone think my suggested ST model is well placed and a good idea? I find it a good alternative to a GT for those who can't quite afford the turbo or don't want one.
Okay, fire away.
DaveM
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Maybe a moonroof could be a stand-alone option. Leather too.
Things like HIDs and Navigation could be SPT parts.
-juice
New Standard:
-One-touch all windows down (not just drivers door), or selectable in single, double or 4 windows via a toggle like the power mirror toggle
-60/40 split-folding rear seat on ALL sedans and wagons
-Good, solid silky-smooth short throw shifter for all MT sport models
-Standard Security Package Upgrade on turbo/H6 models
Options:
-Delete option for power-leather seats to manually-adjusting cloth seats (option of STi bucket seats)
http://www.japanparts.com/Pic/pic003/027-015.jpg
-Single fully operable moonroof (both sedan and wagon) stand-alone or available in package
-Cold weather package (heated seats and mirrors)
-HID Headlamps
-Navigation System
-Auto-Dimming Mirror
-Factory Window Tint
STi/SPT Options:
-STi Sports Package: Silicone Intercooler Hoses, Sports ECU (~$300-500) good for maybe 280hp up from 250hp
-STi Brake Package: Stainless Steel Brake Lines, Upgraded Pads (~$500)
-SPT Handling Package: Rear Sway Bar Upgrade, Upgraded Springs, Adjustable Dampeners, Associating Bushings
(~$1500)
-STi Front LSD (~$750?)
The biggest thing, make the parts affordable. People will buy them. I've heard Subaru was disgusted when they saw Subaru fans with their WRX's and non-Subaru parts on the cars. It's inevitable, people want a chance to customize their performance vehicles. Subaru can get in on this too, but that have to offer some reasonable parts at reasonable prices. Comfort is one thing, that's easy to offer those options, but catering to enthusiasts is something else. They will always look for areas to improve a car, they just have to know what we're looking for and listen to the customers. That is why SPT/STi parts haven't sold too well over here so far. Not everyone bases their decisions on luxury options.
But I do agree, it should be an option unless packaged with other worthwhile options like navigation, 10 way power seats (as opposed to 8 way)....
Just throwing some things out there just for understanding before I get flamed....
BTW, the Forester XT is turbocharged, not supercharged.
Bob
Oh and yes, I want a new turbo Leg BAD! Bob, you know this.
While it does serve a marketing purpose, in that the hood scoop makes it easy to ID the turbos from other Subies, that's more of a byproduct than anything else.
Bob
Also as noted, some of the earlier Subarus 97-99 Legacy(96?) GT and OB models, 98-01 Impreza RS and OBS had hood scoops for the performance image. Now we're finally starting to get past the image deal and into function! Yippee!
FWIW, at Summit Point there was an EVO and the guy was having a problem with the plumbing on his front-mounted intercooler. Access was horrible, he was showing me. He actually left the track twice and never really got any track time.
-juice
-Brian
The L/SE model was successful, the current 2.5GT was not. The L/SE did a lot of volume, not quite matching the Outback, but contributing significantly to Subaru's bottom line.
-juice
Legacy costs less, looks less garish (no cladding), handles better (lower to the ground)especially in GT form, rides better.
The Outback has more ground clearance so it is better for real deep snow, or rough trails. The main difference is the "rugged" image that some people like.
I am anxiously awaiting the '05 Legacy L. If it is available without a sunroof, and the mileage improves (as it did for the Japanese model) then I may consider one. I have given up on the Mazda 6 wagon. Only available with a V-6 - which uses as much gas as some SUV's.
Secondly the Legacy Wagon issue: I don't know too many people that would see it the same. They fit 2 different images for 2 different crowds. I know many people that love the Legacy Wagon but would NEVER want an Outback or have to pay for all the extra stuff it has which they would never use. My dad is one of them as well as several Legacy people I know. Therefore 2 completely different markets.
Personally I'm torn between a Legacy GT turbo Wagon and Sedan. The sedan will be a little faster, but the sleeper is a hair less. Both look excellent and can perform very well. I can tell you though considering I am driven for performance and handling beyond stock, an Outback isn't even remotely an option.
That doesn't necessarily mean that it will be available that way in the US or Canada, but it is in Britain.
-juice
Where did you find out that's it's 5.5?
Is the 250hp v4 turbo or v6 w/out?
Just gets better everytime I read about the Legacy.
Subaru's use boxer or H4/H6 engines. The new GT is a turbocharged 2.5 liter H4.
http://www.need-desire.com/main.html
-Ian
That was for the Turbo. The 2.5i model gets 168hp and the same 166 lb-ft from the current engine, but with significant weight loss (including aluminum hoods on all models) it'll still be quicker, maybe high 7s with a manual.
-juice
Other than the drivetrain for the most part I'm really happy with the rest of the package.
Mark
the new 05'Legacy sedan and Wagon GT will carry the Euopean version of the STI motor and it will have hp and 250ft/t .Better chasis and better brakes will standard. If you want more info go to subaru.net or go to the international auto show web site to see more pics and specs.
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http://www.need-desire.com/main.html
Not too worried about the 5-speed manual. With the bleeder valve on the WRXs, this has been great on my car. Plenty of spirited driving, no issues.
Read in C&D over a year ago that the new Legacy would also try to steer WRX owners who need want a bigger vehicle / more luxury oriented vehicle. I think the new GT does this.
With Subaru still a small player, I would be surprised if the GT limited was priced above an Accord EX V6, even if it is faster and better handling. That would make the GT limited around $28K or less.
Visited a Sub dealer yesterday to look at the WRX, good performance /value but too small for me. The rep told me about the upcoming legacy turbo but had little information hence my arrival here.
I currently have an Acura TL type S that will be returned off lease at the end of April so the expected arrival of the legacy in June is a stretch but would be worth it if the performance was good enough. I read earlier of a 0-60 of 5.5, has this been confirmed ? was this from a road test or calculated ? also does anyone know data for 0-100 and quarter mile ?
For a price comparable to something you'd get in an Audi or a Volvo, it'll set you back 500 to 1,000.
- No official performance data is out yet on the Legacy. The 5.5 is from Subaru and is for the manual (though, who knows, the auto might come close). Considering that the engine is very similiar to the one in the Forester XT, and that the car should weigh about the same as the Forester XT (might be even a little less), the 5.5 secs. for the manual sounds conservative. Would expect the car to do 0-60 in around 5.1-5.3 secs. Especially since the reported power numbers on the GT are higher than the Forester, and the car has to be more aerodynamic!
Would also expect the 1/4 mile to be impressive as well.
- Usually Subaru is conservative with their acceleration numbers. They originally posted the WRX of doing 0-60 in 6.4 secs. In actuallity, the average for the WRX has been 5.7 secs.
A 2 month gap is a long time, do you have a beater you could use in the interim?
The Forester XT was clocked at 5.3 seconds to 60, 1/4 mile in 13.8 IIRC. The new Legacy turbo will have 40 more horses and only weighs slightly more, so do the math.
-juice
- No idea, but did see the 5.5 secs on the site two weeks ago. They were advertising the WRX at 6.4 secs, even though it was uncertain the Auto could do it (still not sure if the auto can).
- The Auto for the GT might hit the 6 sec. mark for 0-60 though. More low-end torque vs. the WRX.
I think that was SoC.
-juice
I took a pic of this, lemme see if I can find it:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288069365&p=4194565477- &idx=47
It's picture 47 in that album, I think you may have to register at Imagestation.com.
I'm 6' and the rear head room leaves plenty of space above my head even with the moonroof on the sedan. The wagon is even better.
-juice