Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

oldsman01

I know what you mean about the difference between how the CTS and STS drive and being only 27 one would think I'd pick the CTS easily, but there is something about the sharp, almost stealthy shape of the STS(especially in dark colors) with those two exhuast pipes coming out the rear that makes me want one. And then there is the interior which is just pure luxury. The fact that I see Y2K STSs with reasonable mileage being advertised for less than what a loaded Toyota Camry V6 runs makes it that much more tempting. I could just see myself in a black STS with the chrome wheels and a dark grey interior. Of coarse I could say the same of a CTS as well, although my first choice in CTS colors is the blue onyx with the two-tone grey interior.

richm4, the new GP looks to have a better interior than previous models, but it still lacks in the luxury department. The CTS doesn't have the pure luxury look and feel of the STS or Lexus LS430/ES300 or even an Oldsmobile Aurora, but the materials do seem to be of good quality and it seems Cadillac spent the money on whats beneath the surface. For a sport sedan, that is a good thing.

oldsman01

While we are on the topic of feature availabilty on the CTS, does anyone know why one must get the navigation system to get XM radio? This is nuts as even a low end Chevy Cavalier can add the option of XM radio. I have an aftermarket XM radio in my Intrigue and would love to have a fully integrated system in my next car. The CTS is the ONLY GM car to require the navigation system to get XM. While I'm not knocking the Navi system(it actually looks pretty cool in the dash) I don't care to spend over 2 grand just to get XM when in reality, I would have very little use for the Navi system. Anyone know of XM will be available without the navi system for 04?

richm4

I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on a silver Lux CTS with sunroof, bun warmers and auto-trans that lists for nearly $36K.

Usually I prefer to pay cash and have never considered leasing because there seems to be too much leeway for the dealers to sneak in extra charges, plus I usually keep my cars 4 or 5 years. However the 36 month lease price I was quoted today sounds very tempting.

After my $7500 trade and various rebates such as GMS discount, GM loyalty, GM Card rebate, and after adding in taxes, I can either purchase the car out the door for $23,300 or lease it for a one-time payment of $6300.

It seems like a no-brainer to lease for the one time cost of $6300, save the $17K and then just buy a different car in 3 years, which is perhaps 1 year earlier than I would normally buy a new car. Unless perhaps I am missing something, never having leased before.

I would appreciate some opinions on which route is the best to take.

Thanks.

sonjaab

IS that $6300 and your trade ? If WITHOUT your
trade in......$175 bucks a month for 36 months
sounds good !.......................geo

BTW: My local Caddy dealer is adv. a new CTS
for $299 month, 36 mth., $2900 down

oldsman01

Remember, in 3 years the CTS-V should be available. If I do a CTS, it will more than likely be a lease primarily because I don't want to put a large amount down. And in three years, I can walk away from the car.

sonjaab, thats not a bad lease deal although I'd rather pay less up front and have a higher monthly payment. I assume that is based on a base model CTS. Speaking of, the local dealer has more CTSs in stock than they have ever had. I counted about 8 when I drove by there last night There were all either Sterling, White, or cashmere though.

regfootball

keep it shut. i have had 3 manuals now and my next car will be a manual tranny also. not quite sure where you are forming your impressions of what i drive from, but one thing i do know is at least others besides you will look at makes besides GM and not just gush over anything with a GM badge on it, regardless of how mediocre it is.

tvdirec

Looking for help! Has anyone tried to install an XM antenna on the back of their CTS. I can't for the life of me find an opening to feed the antenna cable through the trunk to the front of the car. Any suggestions?? This car seems to have been built pretty tight. Thanks in advance.

richm4

Sonjaab,

It's a one time payment of $6300 for 3 years plus my $7500 trade-in. They would be willing extend it to 4 years for an extra $3000, but then the deal averages $193 per month instead of $175 per month. I figure that driving a Caddy for $175 per month seems like a pretty good deal.

I don't know if this makes a difference, but I usually only put about 4000 or 5000 miles on my car each year (thanks to public transportation to work).

One of my fears is that there may not be another car that I really want to buy in 3 years when I have to give up the CTS.

By the way, it seemed that the CTS gauges were very dim in the dealer garage. Are they fairly bright at night, or is there a brightness control somewhere?

logic1

Most likely, GM expects the CTSv will absorb those CTS buyers who want the manual.

The other cars currently slated to use the new 3.6 would not be likely manual vehicles.

So figure Cadillac sells around 48k CTS per year. 10% of that is 4.8k. There will be around 5k CTSvs available. If half of those looking at CTS with the V6 jumped over to the CTSv, that leaves only 2.4k manual sales. That is not a lot of people to absorb 10s of millions needed to design a manual.

One real problem with gasoline engines and manuals is that Europe is going diesel even in the higher end vehicles. GM cannot expect many Opel 3.6 sales. That means even less of a market to absorb gasoline engine manual development costs.

bingoman

That payment of $6300 plus the value of your trade-in of $7500 gives you a monthly payment of $383.33, although it may be slightly lower if the tax and license fees are included in the payment of $6300. That does not sound like a great deal to me.

Better check the figures and some other dealers. If you do go with it and you can't find another car you fall in love with in three years you can always buy the car for the predetermined exit value. That's what I did with my '97 Catera while waiting for the CTS. If you only drive 5 to 6 thousand miles a year you may be able to negotiate an even better deal as most leases expect 12 thousand miles per year.

The console light dimmer and the interior light switch are the slider in the front of the overhead console. I had a hell of a time finding it when I took my first test drive, but is really convenient once you get used to it.

regfootball

getrag more than likely makes manual transmissions that are 'off the shelf' and ready to be put into particular models.

Fords SVT Focus sells 5000 units and yet is still under 20k price, yet still has a unique manual transmission.

So if Ford can do it on an economy model, how is it tough for the general to bolt one into a 3.6 CTS, especially when they might either want to market a REFINED manual tranny CTS in Europe in the future or if Opel already has a need for same said parts?

BTW, no one considering a base CTS is necessarily going to think its an easy reach to go from a 30,000 dollar base CTS to a 50,000 CTSv.

jemiller

Bear in mind the SVT Focus is the Euro-market Focus ST170 and the SVT Focus would not exist if Ford had to develop the car specifically for the US market. I won't go into how the ST170 is near-beer and Ford won't give us the Focus RS...but then that's why there's the Scooby STi and the Mitsubishi Evo.

The reason the Lincoln LS got a manual transmission at all was that the car was intended to replace the Euro-market Ford Scorpio/Granada. There's a lot that was done right in the LS (suspension, aluminum nose sheetmetal, trunk-mounted battery) that I don't think would have been done if the car had been designed only for the US market.

I'd bet the Getrag transmission in the CTS is an off-the-shelf piece, probably identical (or nearly so) to that in the Opel Omega, various BMWs, etc.

How many CTSes are actually selling for $30K? Would a $50K CTSv be any bigger stretch than going from a $40-something-K 525i to a $72K M5?

carguy58

in New York City. I didn't even know they made a limo version of the CTS. It was white. It was good looking for a limo.

logic1

If the rumors are true (and the reliable sources have yet to pick up on them) it appears the Base CTS will have the 3.2.

The Focus engine and manual are used in other markets, including Europe as mentioned above.

Opel is making a big push to diesel, even in the higher end. I do not know whether the 3.6 will even find its way into an Opel. If it does, a manual will definitely find its way into a 3.6 CTS (if one is not already).

Australia is another source of hope. I imagine they will want the 3.6 there. If it can wean the sporting Aussies off the V8s they like so well, you might see a manual out of that also.

b4z

Which is it? 2004 order guide says 260 hp. GM has been saying 255hp.

Also the most interesting spec on this engine is the fact that it will have 252 ft lbs of torque at only 2800 rpms!!!

This car will have excellent around town torque
and I imagine with it's efficient transmission it will be quicker than the G35 auto.

This engine will completely transform the car.

2004 order guide:

http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/proddesc.jsp?year=2004&- amp;butID=1&regionID=1&divisionID=5&vehicleID=328&amp- ;type=0#

b4z

According to the order guide the auto tranny is not available with the 3.2L. Does that mean the 3.2L is a 5 speed only?
Did I miss something here?

sonjaab

Please don't feed the TROLL......
Hes pretty spiteful since he got slapped down in the Impala and Malibu threads.....
Maybe he will leave us alone. I thought parents
were supposed to supervise children when using the
net?

sonjaab

YEA...Its a base stick....Local dealer has 1 stick
and 2 autos.

mannytranny

Looks like you can get an auto with the 3.2 engine but the the luxury performance package is not available only the sport package and luxury package.
Still can't figure out why the memory seats are excluded from a manual 3.2 engine.

bigdaddycoats

I agree that it looks like you can not get the memory pkg with the manual - strange? I do not see that you can get a auto with the 3.2 for 04, unless I am missing something. And it looks as though the lux performance pkg is only available with the manual.

richm4

Perhaps they were trying to snow me, but they couldn't give me a clear value of the purchase price of the CTS at the end of the lease because the car is in the first model year and it's depreciation is undetermined.

Now I'm starting to realize why I never believed in leasing in the first place. At least when I'm paying cash for a car, I know exactly how much everything is costing me.

regfootball

whatever, as long
as i get my
BIG
PENSION
CHECKS!!!!

richm4

After thinking about it some more, I am actually putting down more than just $7500 for my trade in, plus $6300 for the lease payment. The lease payment was supposed to be $9200 for 3 years, but my GM Card rebate is $2900, so that was subtracted from $9200 giving $6300.

$9200 plus $7500 for trade equals $16,700, which comes to $464 per month. Now that seems terrible compared to the $175 I thought it was costing me.

Do you think the dealer is trying to screw me?

sonjaab

If you get GM family discount and have GM card bonus points you better hurry !
Starting Aug 1. GM is sending us a GM extended family card (in
july) and cutting and converting our 5% to 1 % when used to purchase on GMS plans !
OUCH!

dindak

Ya. I know, he's everywhere slamming everything.

GM actually cut Canadian cards to 3% for everyone this year (but with no annual limit). It's still a a good card, just not as good as it used to be.

richm4

Sonjaab, Yeah, I know I want to definitely do something by July 31st. The 5% GM Card rebate plus the GMS pricing was a very good deal while it lasted.

Another reason I'm trying to make a decision by tomorrow about the CTS is that $1500 of rebates I'm eligible for towards the CTS expires tomorrow.

missouri2

does anyone know if k&n or holly has a filter for the cts yet and has anyone went with dual exhaust, if so did it help. love my cts one great car

b4z

I have always read that you shouldn't put anything down on a lease because you will not own the car and it is too easy for the dealer to hide any downpayment.

If you have the trade in and the GM card earnings then why not buy it.

If you are borrowing 20K then I think your payment would be less than $400 over 5 years.
Don'tnow what the multiplier is with the interest rates changing so much.

If you give us the amount borrowed, term and interest rate we can figure what your monthly payment is on a purchase and compare it to the lease payment.

b4z

If you go to the 2004 ordering guide after getting to the ordering info it will say at the bottom of the page:
"M82" automatic transmission requires 3.6L VVT V6 engine.
Nowhere does it say you can get the 3.2L and the auto.
The 3.2L is available only on the 1SA package.

mannytranny

When you're right, you're right. I guess that the 3.2L will be the only way to get a manual trans. and only a manual trans in a 2004 CTS no auto here. Looks like Cadillac wants a model style that will one day vanish in the CTS.

b4z

Seems kind of strange to me.
Almost as if they don't want to sell the 3.2L.
I guess they want to have a cheap version of the car, just to say they have it.
Maybe I was correct in a previous post "that the cost of shipping the 3.2L from Europe negates the extra cost of the 3.6L VVT motor."

b4z

Its been a while but I noticed that we were the #3 thread yesterday, with 18 posts.
Seems like old times.

richm4

I was planning on paying $23K cash plus my trade for the CTS, but then the dealer started pushing the lease, saying that it would save me $17K in up front money to provide me "flexibility" in case I want to invest it. Truthfully, it's sitting in the bank getting less than 1% in a money market.

Now, I can see that the dealer is probably making much more due to the hidden costs in a lease, as opposed to me simply paying in cash.

This type of potential trickery is one reason why I never considered leasing before. Although, I have to "compliment" the dealers on their smooth-talking.

I appreciate all who have provided me their opinions, and would welcome any other suggestions or opinions.

bingoman

Either your salesman doesn't know what he is doing or he is trying to manipulate you. In either case I would not trust him or do business with him.

The price to buy the car at the end of the lease has nothing to do with depreciation. It is the difference between the price of the car new, less the lease payments plus the interest on the lease payments. The depreciation should only affect the lease payment calculation to determine the monthly payments. The more you pay in lease payments the less the care should be worth at the end of the lease. Your salesman seems to be trying to maximize your costs at both ends. Personally I would look elsewhere for the car or buy it for cash from the dealer and get a loan from a bank, or find an independent lease company.

b4z

If you borrowed 23K then your monthly payment should be $444 over 60 months. With as much as you are putting down I doubt if you would ever be upside down, and you should be able to sell the car at anytime during ownership. Something you can't do with the lease (at least easily).

Sounds like your dealer might be playing games.
It is hard to tell with a lease.
You might want to check around to see if he is nailing you on the trade in.

As far as what the car is worth at the end of the lease(residual), that is easy. It is usually a percentage.
My Intrigue was 50% but it was subordinated by GM. I have seen some Hondas be higher.

If you are dealing with a 23K base cost and the car has a residual of 15k then you are in effect financing 8K. 8K divided by 36 = $222 monthly.
If the car is worth 18K then you are financing
5K for a monthly payment of $138.
I haven't factored in a interest rate on those calculations.

As you can see to finance 1k on a lease is quite expensive.

Oftentimes they will not give incentives for lease cars. So the acquisition cost is higher.

I leased my Intrigue in '99 and luckily got out of it do to an incentive. I will never lease again due to mileage.

Just messing with your log in name, since bingoman called you richm5.

richm4

Thanks b5z ;-)

b4z

LOL.
When I got my Intrigue I did a lot of homework and
talked with a friend of mine who worked for Chryser Financial. He helped with cap cost, cap rate, residual, etc.
I had the whole thing figured out.

Olds was offering a special $299mo. deal on an Intrigue GX with a MSRP of $21,500.
The car I wanted was $23,000 so I negotiated a price of about $21,XXX and figured I would get the $299 mo deal.
My deal was actually $327 mo.
I also financed the tax and tags plus the $400 acquisition fee.
I asked them to show me why.

It turns out the $299 mo deal was calculated on a discounted GX. One with a sales price of 93.75%
of MSRP.
In other words dealers would have to discount their cars to participate in this $299 mo special.

No where in the advertising did it say the dealer was participating in any way in this special. I was also the one who made them aware of it. They had no clue that it was being offered.

My deal was also about 93.75% of MSRP. So the dealer made about $579 on the car plus the 3% holdback ($660).

ezaircon4jc

The residual is the value the leasing company (whether the manufacturer or a bank) puts on the vehicle at the end of the lease. Depreciation IS a factor. The lease payment is the difference between the vehicle "selling" cost and the residual, plus any taxes or fees. In a lease, you're just renting a portion of the cars value. There are incentives that skew the numbers, but that is basically how it works.

necros

Results from yesterday: http://www.rmsolo.org/results/03/0330full.txt
Crappy day. I drove poorly. Bleh. :P

missouri2, you reminded me that I need to give Borla a call to find out what their procedure is for becoming one of their dealers. My normal distributor doesn't carry Borla products, so I may have to set something up "especial". How many people on this list are interested in a Borla cat-back dual exhaust? Normal proce seems to be about $1000. I should probably be able to get it for $800 or less.

Got that steering nut fixed. Don't know if mine was loose or not. Also put on my new tires and got the first Mobil 1 oil change put in. The new tires are so much better it's incredible. The car should have come with these stock (although poor weather performance is non-existent).

toystwo

I haven't seen any comments on the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of the Bose Noise Compensation technology that is on the top line Bose sound system. I think this is newer feature that was introduced at the same time as the DVD based Nav? For those that have this feature how well does it work? Does it reduce objectionable road/wind noise?

Thanks

rwisem

In an article in the Detroit paper today, Jim Frederico, chief engineer for luxury autos at GM says "in 2005, the 3.2 will be dropped and the 3.6 will be available with a 6-speed manual"

b4z

According to Jim Frederico at Cadillac the 3.2L will be dropped in 2005 and the 3.6L V6 will be available with a 6 speed manual transmission.

b4z

We were #2 yesterday with 28 posts.

mannytranny

Where is the article on line? I want to read it.
I just became a happy camper! I hope this is for real!

tyler80

I want to read it too. Also please tell about the Bose Noise Compensation stuff. How does that work for everyone who has it?

rwisem

I re-checked and the article is from today's Automotive News. You need to be a subscriber to read it. I'm sure some on this board have a copy, perhaps we have already herard form them.

eaton53

"Also please tell about the Bose Noise Compensation stuff. How does that work for everyone who has it?"

Now that would be news... Bose making something that works.

bigdaddycoats

http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=43081

tyler80

Do you have bad luck with Bose products? toystwo brought up the Bose Noise Compensation thing and I've always wondered how that worked out for people with the Bose system in their CTS.

b4z

I read it on cadillacforums I think.
It was either in the "news" section or the "cts" section