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Hyundai Sonata 6 cylinders or 4?
Retired..... City/highway driving is 50-50..... Only about 5000 miles/year.
Am seriously considering buying an '07 Sonata. And believe the 4 cyc. should give me enough power.
Can anyone give me a good reason why I should really consider the 6 cyc. over the 4.
Cost is not a problem.
Am seriously considering buying an '07 Sonata. And believe the 4 cyc. should give me enough power.
Can anyone give me a good reason why I should really consider the 6 cyc. over the 4.
Cost is not a problem.
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Comments
The 6 Cyl models cost less than the 4 cyl models after rebate. The resale value is higher. The growl of the 235 Horsepower (234 for 07) engine is awesome
Cost is not a problem.
*6cyl is jet-smooth, and has good power
*6 should have a little better resale value
*Gas mileage is only 2-3mpg better on the 4
*Car prices are about the same for the 4 and 6
At 5000 miles per year, you won't be using enough gas--even if gas were $3 per gallon--to make a meaningful gas price difference.
Besides V6's generally being smoother and having more reserve power, you'll get more features in the SE or Limited than are in the GLS for model year '07.
My '05 V6 has 170 HP, only 8HP more than the current I4 and it has plenty of power for me in hilly New England. So the I4 should have have adequate power. I would focus on creature comforts available in the different trim levels if I were you and if I understand your situation correctly.
Was pretty much leaning towards the SE V6.
Just a little annoyed...no, make that quite annoyed...that with Honda I can't get a grey interior with a black exterior...
decisions ? decisions?
Is Honda going to force me into a Hyundai Sonata???
However, there is one area that the I4 is superior to the V6, and that's maintenance costs. A number of routine, and not so routine, maintenance items are much easier - read less costly - to work on with the I4 than with any V6. For example, I personally know that some V6 engines never get their rear bank of spark plugs changed simply because it's almost impossible to do so. Mechanics hate to change the rear 3 plugs on a transverse V6. And, should you have to re-shim the valves to adjust valve clearance in the V6, be prepared to spend in excess of $1,000. The V6, and the I4, for that matter do not use hydraulic valve lifters - surprise, surprise - they're solid lifters with adjustment shims.
The Lambda V6 is a nice engine, but long-term maintenace costs are a factor vs. the Lambda I4.
And when do the V6 owners need to re-shim the valves?. The Car has a 10 year Warranty. Whether Hydraulic or solid valve lifters... there is no data to back up your assessment on the new 3.3L power plant? :confuse:
Yes, with the 10 year warranty - I "do" own a Hyundai - and the long life of the plugs, there's no doubt one really doesn't have to worry, since the average person doesn't keep a car for 10 years and/or 100K miles. The engine does have mechanical lifters, as does the I4, and the Beta Elantra engine as well. No big deal. When something should go wrong after the warranty period, I would rather be facing the repair charges on an I4.
It is indisputable fact that "any" V6 is costlier, and harder, to maintain in the long term than a well-designed I4. I know, as I work on the darn things daily! Not Hyundais, but SAABs, both the SOHC and DOHC I4 and the Opel-built OHC V6. I'll take working on an inline 4 anytime over a V6 - or, any "V" engine for that matter.
I'm not saying that the Lamba V6 is bad - on the contrary, as I intend to buy a new Sonata Limited soon. However, it's a simple fact of life with V-designs - they're more costly to repair than inline engines, primarily because of the labor costs. And, parts costs tend to be higher, as there is two head gaskets, two sets of DOHC systems, etc., rather than the simpler design of an inline engine. This is one of the reasons why BMW still uses primarily an I6 design.
The simple answer to you question is: when the valve lash is greater than the maximum spec! When will that happen, possibly never, but don't count on it. In solid lifter design wear is natural, and this is the primarily reason most designs today use hydraulic lifters, including direct actuating bucket tappet DOHC designs, which automatically take up the valve lash.
Remember, I'm a Hyundai supporter, but it doesn't change the fact that long-term maintenance costs (out of warranty) on the Lamba V6 will be higher than on the Lamba I4.
I believe Consumer Reports found the 4 cylinder model's braking distance to be about 7 or 8 feet shorter than the V6 (126 or so feet versus around 133 on a dry surface from 60 mph).
As for mileage with the 4 cylinder, I'm getting around 18-20 in the city (a little better than what I got in my last car, an Elantra) and 28-30 on the highway. Overall I'm getting 23-24 mpg, which isn't bad considering how large the car is.
It's worse than that with the new lambda V6 engine series engines used in Sonatas and Azeras. (I haven't dove into the situation with the I4.) Shims are not used for adjustment according to the shop manual. Instead, after measuring the clearances for the 24 valves, the affected camshaft(s) have to be removed for access (after removing the timing chain at the front of the engine) and the out of spec original "MLA"s (mechanical lash adjusters?) removed and replaced with service MLAs of the proper lengths - there are 41 individual service replacement lengths. Once the affected tappets are replaced, then everything has to be buttoned up on each bank and the timing chain re-installed. Given the labor intensity, I don't doubt this service will exceed $1,000.00 and I wish I understood what Hyundai was thinking in abandoning largely reliable and maintenance-free hydraulic tappets. (Yeah - they can fail, but given reasonable oil change intervals, they're more often good for the life of the motor.)
The lifters are hydrolic, but if you have to do any work on the heads the shimming will be needed. Just hope you never do any work there. No other valce adjustments needed.
Ed_G
ed_g, your understanding of what the service tech explained to you (or his understanding of what's in the shop manual) is incorrect. These new V6 Hyundai engines do NOT use hydraulic valve lifters (which, by the way, are self-adjusting by definition...). The previous generation of Hyundai-designed V6 engines DID use hydraulic valve lifters. The lifters in the new lambda (Hyundai's internal designation) V6 engines are solid machined chunks of steel. When (not if) lash wears beyond factory specified clearances, the lifter(s) has/have to be replaced outright. (Shimming is NOT an option in the new Hyundai design unless the factory makes a running engineering alteration later.) Service replacement lifters are available in 41 lengths to accomodate wear severity. Hyundai calls for measuring valve lash every 60,000 miles. That procedure is relatively easy - probably a couple hundred bucks. Should any valves measure out of design clearance, the fun begins. The front cover will have to be removed, the timing chain removed, and the affected camshaft(s) (there are four of them) will have to be removed for access to the affected lifter(s). While it's arguable whether this involved procedure will actually be necessary at every measurement cycle, rest assured that when it is, it will be expensive. Expect $700.00 or more because of the considerable labor time involved. If the chain has stretched beyond service tolerance or the chain tensioner is out of tolerance, add those items to the parts count during re-assembly. (Suddenly timing belts and hydraulic tappets look attractive, again. ) If you're interested in reading up on what eventually awaits you, you can access the 2006 and 2007 Sonata shop manuals at HMAService.com. While intended for dealership service personnel, free site registration is open to anyone.
*According to the shop manual, these are designated as "MLA"s (manual lash adjusters?). My initial interpretation from the diagrams in the shop manual was that these were shallow, but full tappets. But on further reflection, perhaps "MLA" is Hyundai-speak for shims? Dunno - I'll leave it to a Hyundai dealership tech to settle the question.
"While it's arguable whether this involved procedure will actually be necessary at every measurement cycle, rest assured that when it is, it will be expensive. Expect $700.00 or more because of the considerable labor time involved. If the chain has stretched beyond service tolerance or the chain tensioner is out of tolerance, add those items to the parts count during re-assembly. (Suddenly timing belts and hydraulic tappets look attractive, again. ) If you're interested in reading up on what eventually awaits you, you can access the 2006 and 2007 Sonata shop manuals at HMAService.com. While intended for dealership service personnel, free site registration is open to anyone".
"WHAT IS NOT COVERED (taken from my '03 Sonata's warranty supplement booklet on page 17)
* Normal maintenance services (yada-yada-yada)
* Normal maintenance items (yada-yada-yada)
* Normal deterioration or wear of any [emphasis mine] part (yada-yada-yada - my personal favorite, catch-all gotcha )
Not saying you're wrong - just don't make automatic assumptions that an owner would have the automaker by the short hairs.
What Hyundai marketing giveth, Hyundai legal may taketh away if it'th tho inclined. Just because Hyundai advertises it has "America's best warranty" Hyundai didn't spell out for whom it's best...
I have no idea why the system sometimes does that to me, eh I mean to him :P
MiamiXT
It's not your problem, and I am told a fix is in the works. Sorry 'bout that.
*When chains wear and stretch, they also cause excessive sprocket wear.
The more I study and mull-over the Lamba V6 design, and the new 2.4L I4 design for that matter, I start thinking about possibly not buying a Sonata. Maintenance on this design "could" become quite expensive over time, and I keep my cars for a long time.
Hmmm . . . easy spark plug replacement and long-term, and relatively cheap lifter replacement, makes me want to consider a longitudinal domestic V6 design with good-old hydraulic lifters - if there are any left. I guess I'd have to consider a RWD vehicle! Not many choices there! Of course, there will be those who point out that the spark plugs commonly used today with the HEI ignitions typically last 100K, but still . . . I know what you mean trying to change plugs in a transverse V6.
This was the basis for my posting so, as we all do, live and learn and never take as gospel what is said to you by a car dealer
If the salesperson you worked with was relatively new, he or she may still have been on "the learning curve." As customers, we generally are very informed on the specific vehicle we're considering, but the sales staff must know the specifics on all of the vehicles they sell, and this is not necessarily an easy task, especially for a new salesperson and with new models appearing on the lot. Their knowledge, or lack thereof, is totally dependent upon the dealership's training program. However, they should "check their data" before giving you the info.
Interestingly, the Service Manager and Service Advisor at our local Hyundai dealership also recommends the V6 over the 4. It begs the question if their recommendation is based upon fuel mileage differentials, reliability and/or overall satisfaction, or the benefits "they" may receive on increased service costs over the long-term. I don't know, as only time will tell.
Should i be concerned. what other mid size vehicles use the hydraulic type lifters. Thanks in advance for your replies
I ended up with the 4-cylinder AT because I felt the clutch on the 06 was too heavy, and didn't like the feel of the manual with the 06 seat (too soft). If you do get the 5-speed, they have a package now with 17" wheels, firmer power seat and moonroof all for an MSRP of $19,600...the same MSRP of my 06 automatic. Just make sure you test drive the car fully. And plan on winter tires if you live in the snow belt, as the 17's are useless in winter. The alternative is the base 5-speed with 16" wheels and all- season tires. The ride is better, and these tires are OK in winter. Again, test drive fully as this seat is not power.
I bought an 07 V6 and it's smooth with a ton of power! Getting combined mileage around 25
When maintenance is required, it will cost much more on the V6, as any transverse V6 is simply much harder to work on than a transverse Inline 4. I will use a non-Hyundai situation as an example. Our 1994 Dodge Grand Caravan ES 3.3L V6 with 160K miles recently developed a head gasket leak. The quote for repair was $2,500. I personally completed the repair with all OEM parts, and some machine shop work on the heads, for a total cost of less than $250. How many hours did I spending doing this - too many to count - and, not including the scratches and bloody knuckles! Plus, this was on a pushrod V6, one of the easier transverse V6 engine installations to work on. Transverse V6's, especially the DOHC variety on the Sonata, are not known for their labor-friendliness. Try changing the rear plugs on a transverse V6, and you will understand what I mean.
If you trade cars often, buy the V6. But, if you keep your car a long time, seriously consider the Inline 4. For me personally, I love the Lambda V6's smoothness and power, but I won't buy one. Rather, I will go with the Inline 4. No more transverse V6 engines for me . . .
I find the four to be better than the Optima six, which is the last gen. Sonata 2.7 engine. Plus you get a five speed rather than four speed transmission.
If I was going with a V-6 I definitely would have taken the Sonata.
The Edmunds maintenance page has a 105,000 mile change for the timing belt. I'm a bit confused about the 60K change and the discussion about timing chains on this engine.
BTW-- The Hyundai/Kia four seems a lot smoother than the Chrysler version of the same (almost) engine. To me it also seems smoother than the 2.7 liter V-6 but not the new, improved Sonata model.
True of the lower end, only. The heads (where kickapoo joy juice is converted to git-up-'n-go) have been completely revised and now include CVVT technology - good for an additional 15 hp. (185 vs. 170 - that's the motor the previous generation Sonata really needed all along for its V6 option, along with the 5-sp automatic. [sigh]). As to the discussion about "chains on this engine", which engine? If you're referring to the KIA's 2.7L mu V6 with CVVT heads, it still uses a timing belt from the crankshaft up to the heads just as Hyundai's prior generation 2.7L delta V6 did. And, being a belt, it must be replaced periodically since these motors are "interference"* designs. (The latest generation Hyundai 3.3L and 3.8L lambda V6 engines use a roller-link chain from the crankshaft up to the heads.)
*"interference" designates that the pistons will occupy the same space as open valves - but hopefully not simultaneously. All bets are off, though, if the timing belt breaks. (An engine is a terrible thing to waste...)
2. Some cars match EPA levels better than others. My Malibu Maxx hits about 22-23 around town and a bit over 30 on the highway. As good or better than the EPA estimates. I note that the new 08 'Bu is listed as 26 highway. Whether this is the new improved EPA cycle, or the new improved replacement for the ancient ohv v-6 or a combination or both, I don't know.
3. Agree about the tightness of Hyundai engines based on the 2001 Elantra I owned. Continued to improve in gas mileage for about the first five thousand miles.
(I hope note)
My brother says his '07 with V-6 is much faster than he needs.
In my opinion, the sonata is just too big a car for a 4 cyl. That's why the mpg is not much better on the 4 than the 6. I would go so far as to say that some people might get better mileage with the v6,
I wound up with the v6, only paid $500 more than the 4. The v6 has adequate power and seems to deliver decent mileage. I have only had it 2 weeks but I am getting about 23 mpg.
I would have liked to see Hyundai offer a manual transmission with the v6. This is only the second automatic I have ever owned. My old 97 maxima with a manual would get well over 30 mpg on the highway. I dont think i will see that with the sonata.
In any case I am happy with my purchase... and very glad that I didn't buy the 4 cyl. If you must get a 4, for the the elantra with a 5 speed stick. Its not much smaller, will get much better mileage and costs less.
Any advice would be appreciated.
I would get the V6 without question. The 4cyl is really week and quite noisy. I found that just leaving a stoplight and keeping up with traffic was a strain. And forget about passing power. I thought I should get out and push.
Unless you drive very leisurely I suspect you would see very little MPG benefit from the 4cyl.
My '05 Sonata GLS SV is a V6, rated at 170 HP. The new 4 cyl is rated 175 HP.
I've always been light on the gas, more so in the last year. I do practicaly no highway driving, drive under 3 miles to work with hills (we're talking elevation changes of 200 ft), 2 stop signs ( I actually stop) and 4 traffic lights.
My '05 is rated 19/27. Year round I average about 19 mpg for local driving. Better in the spring & fall when the auto A/C doesn't kick on and a bit worse in summer with the A/C and worse when the temps drop below 50 and even worse when the temps are in the teens. Yet, year round, I average right about 19 mpg. If I drive 60 highway miles during a tank of gas, the mpg improvement is 1 to 2 mpg.
With my type of driving (short haul), I can't complain about about the MPG.