Lexus LS 460/LS 460L: First Drives

landi

Is the SWB a good deal or the LWB is a rip-off? I compared the price and features of the two fully loaded versions. The following is the extra equipment the $85,947loaded LWB had over the $68,482 loaded SWB:
Pre-Collision and Dynamic Cruise $2,850
Advanced Parking System $700
Air Suspension and VGRS $2,120
Lexus Link $900
Upgraded Leather and headliner (not individually priced)
Rear Seat Upgrade $1,625
If you total all these extra features, you get $8,200 but the price difference between the two cars is $17,500. So for $9,300 I get extra leg room and upgraded leather. Am I missing something or did Lexus mess up the pricing?

ljflx

Your doing something wrong in your calculations if you have a $17K price differential. A fully loaded SWB car that is comparable to a fully loaded LWB car (excluding the $11K executive 4 seat pckge) will run you to near $77K, not $68K. You need to add that $8200 to the $68,482 to get the difference. The same $10K price difference at the base level continues to exist. In fact it may actually become a tad less, maybe that $9300 you've shown. Go to Edmunds and configure the cars rather than Lexus.com. The latter doesn't have all the features yet or at least it didn't last night when I checked. I haven't checked all that closely on standard features or nit for nit option packages so there is also a possibility that the LWB car has something not available or included on the SWB car.

In the long run the value of the choice you make will matter more if you buy than if you lease - IMO. I think over time you will see Lexus make more and more LWB cars and less and less SWB cars. The market will move on you in the future. So if you buy, than the chance is greater that the LWB LS car will hold it's value as a percentage of MSRP at a higher percentage rate than a SWB car. If you lease then the risk is on Lexus or the bank so you don't care. If you are leasing you'll only pay about 40% of that $9300-10,000 difference over three years.

Beyond all that it's a matter of taste. The LWB car will ride better and have the added space and a higher luxury feel than a SWB car. The car also looks better to my eyes in LWB trim.

BTW - I would say the SWB car fully loaded is a great deal vs the expiring LS430 ultra. Add pre collision to that ultra and your near $75K vs $77K for this very updated car with 102 more horses + all the other goodies that it has over the LS430. The big difference is in reality though as that car would have been discounted a lot in the past two years and this one will not be discounted at all at first and then at a lot lower levels in the future.

ljflx

How about renaming the other 2007 LS board as 2007 pre-release date discussuion and this one as just the 2007 LS 460 and 460L board now that the car is finally here. The board that is the current LS board probably should be renamed 2001-2006 LS so that whoever has that car can discuss it without dealing with the remodelled car. I think the names as they are now will be confusing to new folks and people will post all over the place rather than on one pre-defined board for the 2007 car. As this 2007 car goes to market this week there'll be lots of discussions and possibly new posters on it once people start to drive and experience the car.

Kirstie_H

OK - thanks for the info. I've re-titled existing discussions to make more sense. Feel free to start new '07 LS-related discussions that you think might be interesting!

landi

You are right, the Edmond.com pricing for the $68,500 car on the Lexus site is about $3,500 more. Why do you think the Lexus site is not correct? Also in my example, I shouldn’t have called the $68,500 SWB loaded but in my zip code it is as high as I could go on the Lexus site. My guess is the lease payment on the $86,000 car would be about $1,250 and for the $68,500 car would be about $1,000 so you are right might as well get the LWB. But how much more is the 600 at about $100,000 the lease payment would be about $1,450. I love leasing it makes poor guys look like rich guys!

barryns

Lexus dealer called me today to tell me had had two cars that had just come off the truck. Were still not detailed and cleaned up but available to look at. Went out there and he had 460 and 460L both fully loaded except for the executive package. Needless to say they were very nice. But the reason I wrote this note was to give some hope that cars would be available. He told me he had 15 deposits and no definate known cars coming in except those that had been ordered for specfic customers. However these two were available because they didn't match the color combinations ordered. He said others could still come in that are not accounted for. Also felt a special order could be filled in 6-8 weeks. Unveiling at this shop will be on the 27th after which I'll be able to sign out the car and drive it.

barryns

I spent hours doing a direct comparison with the Lexus site and Edmunds. Even though they present the information differently, the prices came out exactly the same.

ljflx

Barry - The only option packages on Lexus.com when you build the car are two lux package variants. I hope they fix that to include all the option choices soon as otherwise you need to go to the price and options tab and build the car manually on paper. Given the build site then links to payment estimator the whole process is so much better automated, People will be going there instead of the price and options tab and will miss all of the variations Lexus now allows. The payment estimator tab is good but it tends to be high vs prices I've gotten - even if you put in an estimated down payment to compensate for a discount you think you can negotiate.

Landi - If I were buying the LS460L I'd configure the car with pre collison, luxury, ML, air sus, lux rear , and the park assist sensors for $84,120. My guess is that's a $1350-1375 lease (zero down) now and about $100-125 cheaper 7-8 months from now. The other way I'd go is the touring package with ML, pre collision, and the park assist sensors and that's $80,580. Why you can't get rear lux with that is beyond me. I'd like the rear shades as I'd likely opt for a rear headrest DVD system for $1600 or so locally. Since Lexus doesn't change headrests you can put that DVD system in your next leased LS if you stay loyal. My guess on that car is $1250-1275 now and possibly $50-75 cheaper later as I have a feeling this car will stay at or vey close to MSRP for a long time to come. If you option out an LS460 to $72-73K my guess is you are at $1125 or so now and $1050 or so later. My thought is that Lexus and financial institutions will residualize the LWB car at better rates than the SWB car. Just a feeling.

A fully optioned LS460L reaches $97K wuth the executive class limo package. But that's a special order car. At my dealership there are already a number of them spoken for though - so people aren't balking at mid 90K prices. I'd have to say that the LS600HL will likely top out in the $112K range with that option included and probably starts out at that $90K pricetag we were thinking earlier.

Last issue is the $2850 pre-collision option. Will Lexus tend to ship cars pretty much with it or without it. I'd think that with the investment they put into it they'll tend to bring more cars with it than without it to dealer lots - particularly on LWB models. I'm also quite surprised that the self parking feature is only an added $700. So it may be more standardized into shipped cars also.

cyclone4

Yes Len. I was very much surprised that what seems to be a rather sophisticated option is only $700.

By the way, it seems to me like this will now be the most popular board to discuss the new LS.

barryns

I think it is a mistake to split apart the forums related to the 2007 LS460 Series. I think that all those that are here are interested in any subject related including style, drive, defects, recalls, problems, How to's, etc. etc. The value of any one forum will decrease significantly. I doubt that anybody is here only to focus on one subect such as first drive, etc. That is too limited. In order to see what is going on with this car, everybody is going to have to jump from forum to forum to get all the information. And what about the posts that are put on the wrong forum. With such limited breadth of subject, the moderators will be kept increasingly busy switching posts from one forumn to another

ljflx

I also think there should be just one ongoing forum or maybe two if there's a need to keep the LS600 hybrid discussion apart. I was wondering what happened to the posts of landi and I the other day and then saw that new board created with the posts moved. I can see closure of the old 2007 LS board as a read only board but only because it was filled with speculation about prices and other things prior to release info and now we are in real time mode with the release info and the car arriving in dealer lots. That type of move differentiates better the pre release and post release LS news and opinions for new readers. But it's not a necessity.

barryns

Not a problem having too much information on the forum. Posts will always be current. Won't be any new posts on price speculation so subject will go away by itself. Users will read and search out what interests them.

Just to reiterate, I think there should be one forum for the 2007- ? 460 until the model is updated. Concur that the LS 600H might need a separate forum as a lot of the info will not be useable by the 460 group.

Kirstie_H

This conversation has been ongoing in the Forums Software discussion. Instead of spreading it out, please take any organizational questions there. Thanks!

cyclone4

I had the same complaints yesterday but I was told it was no-no.

excelsior88

Well any new info? The TV teaser ads are airing now...

ljflx

Well the two things left to figure out are when AWD comes available and what that LS600HL will price at. I'm on it. Unfortunately I'm travelling on business and am missing the debut at my dealership this week.

hartmonstr

Here's an apples-to-apples (well, almost) comparison between the SWB and LWB from the Lexus site:

SWB base $61000
Comfort Plus pkg $3620
Nav system/ML audio pkg $5645
Power door & trunk closers $395
TOTAL $70660

LWB base $71000
ML audio $2530
Luxury pkg $2780
TOTAL $76310

These two configurations are as close to the same car as you can get. The $5650 difference buys you 4.8 inches plus premium interior leather and headliner.

tagman

Of course, ALL the LS models can always be discussed on the HELM forum, and they can be compared to other vehicles as well.

TagMan

cyclone4

Wouldn't you also get a better overall ride with the LWB as well?

hartmonstr

"Wouldn't you also get a better overall ride with the LWB as well?"

If you were to drive the cars one right after the other on certain road conditions you may be able to discern a slight ride difference. But I doubt it will be the main reason people will buy one over a SWB, just as the 1 MPG better fuel rating will not chase many people from the LWB to the SWB.

We buy with our heart, but we justify with our head.

rennybosch

..."We buy with our heart, but we justify with our head."

and in that order.

barryns

What's not to like about driving in a brand new car with less than 10 miles. I put about 50 miles on a Mercury Metallic LS460L this afternoon. I'm not a professional evaluator but The car was extremely quiet, very responsive pickup. It seemed to be very stable on the road and took curves without difficulty or the feeling that I had to slow down. Definately much better than a prevous 2005 LS 430 I owned for short period of time. On the straightaway I was up to 90 for a short distance on a fairly busy highway but best I can say is that I didn't know I was going over 60. The Voice response system is very accurate compared to my current vehicle which understands me less than some of my relatives. The Brake Hold switch is a nice feature and prevents the car from creeping forward without having to keep foot on the brake. My aren't we getting lazy. I suppose it also would hold the car from going backwards on Lombard street in SF.......I'll wait for somebody else to try that. I guess I could go on and on.....but did end up putting a deposit on the car which will be available after the 'champagne inaugral'...Hope the car makes it thru the party.

pearl

Several people were waiting so I only spent about 20 minutes in the car, with a lot of traffic around, so couldn't really put it through its paces. Overall, my positive comments are similar to those reported by others: very quiet, turbine smooth, and reasonable handling (but not great). Steering felt a little light to me, but turning circle was good. Brakes were OK, not grabby, but did not seem overly "powerful". OK, here are a few negatives, or at least areas that this drive and examination brought to my attention: trunk - small for a car this size (seemingly no larger than my BMW 528)and this was the SWB without any rear A/C intrusions; back seat room - same comment as for the trunk; and, driver's side footwell room. I felt that the left side encroached on the driver's foot area, moreso than I would have expected for such a large car. Also, the left vertical side of the footwell is carpeted, protrudes into the foot area and seems guaranteed to get soiled quickly. None of these are show stoppers, and make no mistake, this is a nice car; however, the lack of overall room surprised me for such a big car.

jd14

The legroom is supposed to be 1.8 inches more in the rear than on the previous LS. But since you have actually sat in the back, how would you say it compares to the 430 in terms of leg space? Also, since you seem concerned about the space in the car, you should probably opt for a LWB, if the extra $$$ isn't a problem.

pearl

I think the SWB has enough room - leg, head, hip, front, back, etc - just not as much as I expected. The trunk definitely is small for a car this size, no other way to describe it. I looked at a Merc E class right after this and its trunk was noticeably bigger - and has an optional fold down rear seat. My biggest "complaint" was the relatively small driver's side footwell - I doubt that the LWB is any different. It is not bad, but less than even my much smaller 528. Many won't care, but some won't buy it because of this, I predict. My 528 only has 153K on the clock, so I will keep it for awhile yet.

hartmonstr

I drove both the LWB and the SWB on Friday, and sat in all the seats. I'm average height (5'8") and even in the SWB my knees were six inches from the back of the front seat, which was adjusted to accommodate a driver of my height. In the LWB, my knees were, well, 10.8" from the back of the front seat. (Not that I'll spend any time in my back seat anyway, but it's nice to know even tall passengers will be comfortable.) I've driven midsize MBs since 1981, and the SWB has much more legroom than any car I've ever owned. The LWB is downright cavernous, at least from my POV. Sure, if you're 6'6" and will be driven by a tall chauffeur, then by all means spring for the L. Keep in mind that the extra rear legroom also translates into extra long rear doors, which will require extra care exiting the back seat in parking lots and tight garages - something to think about if you have kids or clods for passengers. (BTW, the power door closers are really trick - the ultimate luxury you don't need but once you use them you wonder how you got along without them...)

jd14

Much appreciated. I'm glad to know that you had tons of room to spare in both cars. However, do you think that it would still be overly roomy for someone at 6'5''? In other words, would someone over 6'3'' be able to recline a rear seat fully and still have another person at 6'3'' sit in front of them?

hartmonstr

I honestly don't think that two six-plus footers would be cramped sitting one in front of the other in the SWB - certainly, if I was that tall and knew I had to have a tall person sitting behind me a lot, I would consider the L. Or if I was a realtor and did a lot of chauffeuring, the L would definitely be my choice. However, if you are considering all options and you have a short front passenger, put your occasional tall guy (or girl) in the #4 spot where the front seat will be pulled up a bit. I'm going to our local unveiling tomorrow night (Tuesday) and will see if I can get some tall people to test the room situation.

In the end, it's your $5650, so you'll have to decide whether your back seat passengers are worth it ;-)

pearl

My issue is NOT with overall leg room. While I think that the LS460 SWB has less room than most people would think by looking at its overall size, I was able to find a comfortable driving position and then get into the back seat with enough room (I am 6'0"). It is not cavernous, but adequate - just a little surprising that it is not larger for such a big car. My main concern was the relatively small driver's footwell area. Again, it is not a huge issue, but was instantly noticeable for me (and my car is a 97 BMW 528 - a much smaller car but with a much better room to move my feet around - a useful feature on a long drive. I am glad that you had plenty of room, but as others have noted, they did not. Not everyone wants, or can, buy the L model, and it seems ridiculous to spend close to 70K and not have enough interior room when you can buy any number of econoboxes that do.

ljflx

I think everyone who thinks of the 460L as just a few inches of rear seat space is missing the point of what that car is all about. It's really the driving force of this new LS design and is the "made to perfection" car. The SWB was made to fit that cars engineering and to hold onto the existing customer base and lower prices. The L was made for conquest sales and holding customers that Lexus would/could have lost.

Watch the reviews - they will be a lot stronger for the LS460L than for the LS460. The ones I've read to date are already indicative of that. I'd expect that everyone that reviews this car will prefer the LS460L, and some by miles over the LS460. Over time the LS460L will become the car that becomes dominant for Lexus in the category.

I'm anxious to drive both cars later this week.

BTW - the LS430 had plenty of space for 6 foot plus folks in the rear and I drive with my seat all the way back. I'm a hair under 6' and have plenty of space with the seat pushed fully back. I'd have a hard time believing Lexus would make the LS460 SWB model cramped when they've gone out of their way to maximize interior space on past models.

mikeivan

I believe the front seat dimensions for the LS460 and the LS 460L are identical. BTW, the LS 460 WB is 1.7" longer than the LS 430. I assume that extra length goes in the back seat leg room, which is tight for my family in the LS 430.

hartmonstr

I agree that the L is not all about legroom. Buyers in this segment want the total package: speed, prestige, engineering, size, comfort, value, techno-bragging rights, to name a few. Since no car wins all the categories, buyers justify their choices based on their wants and needs.

I drove both versions, and each demo had the same trim level. The handling was not discernably different between the two. Because they were outfitted the same, the only difference was the extra rear legroom and the nicer leather/headliner (which I didn't actually notice while driving). So in that instance, that's what the extra money bought. Of course, you can outfit an L well beyond the standard car, and those who do will probably enjoy a higher automotive experience.

Certainly if I were a reviewer who wasn't plunking down my own money, I would prefer a decked out L over the SWB model. But even Lexus expects 65%-70% of its 460 sales to be for the standard version. Since much of the extra cost of a fully optioned L is south of the front seat, that's not surprising.

dennykrane

Pearl,

I'm glad to hear that someone else thinks the drivers side footwell area is smaller than previous years.I thought it was and I planned to get a tape and measure it.
Could you figure what might of made it smaller? It first I thought it might be the automatic brake but they should be able to do that without using floor space. How about the extra speakers? I'm use to a GS300 and I think the footwell is even smaller than that.

Go figure bigger car, smaller footwell.
My wife even think the seat width is less.

DK

pearl

dennyk....I need to stress that I like the 460 (a lot); however, after climbing out of my 10 year old BMW 528 and finally getting to sit in the 460, I had an instant thought that the footwell was somewhat restricted and certainly smaller than I would have expected. I don't think that this is a showstopper in whether or not I might buy the car, but it was clearly noticeable to me. Along the same lines, I thought that the trunk was not especially large and that the back seat, while adequate, was not huge by any stretch. Again, these were not showstoppers for me, but upon leaving the dealership and driving home, I thought about all the great features on the 460, but also that this car is definitely smaller on the inside than one would expect from looking at the outside. Apparently a great car, but one in which Toyota/Lexus does not appear to take advantage of the large size to open up the interior dimensions.
Probably some folks won't notice or care, but others will.

oac

however, after climbing out of my 10 year old BMW 528 and finally getting to sit in the 460, I had an instant thought that the footwell was somewhat restricted and certainly smaller than I would have expected...

This statement has been repeated ad nauseum already... Anything else to add besides the footwell issue ?

nvbanker

I'm glad to hear that someone else thinks the drivers side footwell area is smaller than previous years.

This could be a problem. I actually don't even like a dead pedal - but I tolerate it. With less room for my size 12 shoes, this isn't going to be good.

hpowders

Sounds like the same problem I found driving the GS last year. Couldn't get comfortable with the left foot.

Sounds like Lexus is regressing. One guy here who drove the car says the LS 430 has a better foot well than the LS 460 and Car and Driver has found the braking stopping distances better for the LS 430 than the LS460 from 70mph by 30 feet.

nvbanker

Also have heard the trunk is smaller on the 460. Well, tomorrow, I'll be checking it out for myself. Not the braking, but the footwell and trunk for sure. :shades:

jd14

A guy over at clublexus who claims to be 6'7'' said that room is overly generous in all places, and didn't even mention the footwell. At his height, this means a lot. He has the 460L though, so apparently the added wheelbase room makes a BIG difference.
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244805
He also has a Phaeton and compares them frequently throughout his review, and states that the Phaeton, a huge car by any standards, is inferior in all interior dimensions except cabin width.

oac

Sounds like the same problem I found driving the GS last year. Couldn't get comfortable with the left foot.

Sounds like Lexus is regressing. One guy here who drove the car says the LS 430 has a better foot well than the LS 460 and Car and Driver has found the braking stopping distances better for the LS 430 than the LS460 from 70mph by 30 feet.

Could you find anything positive... anything at all... to say about the LS ??? This constant negative chant is getting real tiresome.... Have at it, but credibility is certainly lacking when its such a one-way street concept you harp on all the time...

hpowders

Sure. I wish I had that ML 19 speaker sound system.
I'm sure it's fabulous.
And I hear the driver's seat is much better. And the adaptive suspension should be nice. And I read the new LS handles better than the outgoing model.
And of course the new look is a tremendous improvement.

I will be attending a Lexus Taste in a few weeks myself and am looking forward to driving the new LS as well as the LS 400 flagship beater, the ES350.

I knock my car's ridiculous iDrive every chance I get, on Edmund's threads.
I could make a fairly long list of other negative stuff about my vehicle too. It's not exclusively a Lexus thing.

I think for this kind of cash, some of this stuff shouldn't even be talked about. It just shouldn't be.

When you purchase a car for $60k or "better", the vehicle should be flawless, IMO.
Shouldn't read about the foot well or the brakes or an iDrive controller that most people find frustrating.

hpowders

Everybody's different. Before I checked out the GS, a guy my height told me my head would practically be touching the sunroof, but for me, my head didn't come close to hitting it.

You have to drive it yourself and see if it "fits."

One incredible aside: Lexus claims the new ES350 is more advanced and powerful in every measureable way than the initial Lexus LS400 flagship.
Now that's what I call progress!

drfill

I will be driving the New LS460/L at A Taste Of Lexus this Sunday! :shades:

My battle plan is to drive the S-Class first, than 750, than LS460L, to see how it stacks up.

Eye sore a 750 recently on the street and they really cleaned up the rear! Very nicely updated.

Wish they could do the same with the S :sick:

I'd like a 335i to match against the IS350.

I'll let you know how it went after the Giants game!

DrFill

nvbanker

I attended the Taste of Lexus tonight. I have very little to say that isn't glowing about the car. The driving position is pretty much unchanged from my 05. The steering is like butter, folks, and I love butter. It's so quiet and smooth, you can barely tell you're on the road.
The dash is similar in layout, but way enhanced, and styled beautifully. The trunk is fine, I noticed no difference in the dead pedal or driving position at all. The engine is great. I can't think of a downside except the price....
I'm gonna want one of these. :P

cyclone4

I agree with everything you say except that the trunk with the rear seat upgrade is a bit small (not a deal breaker though). I test drove it last Friday. I have a huge dilemma. I was planning to purchase the LS600HL in April. However, that horror story I hear about the minuscule trunk has likely turned me away from the 600HL. I don't want to spend 100K and then be unhappy because of the damn trunk space. What are we suppose to do if my wife and I take a trip with a couple friends?

Meanwhile, I would pull the trigger and go for the LS460L immediately. However, there is one thing holding me back. It does not come with AWD. Living in snow country, I really feel that AWD is a must. I drive a 2004 LS430 now, but I do get tired of changing to snow tires for winter driving. I want the security of AWD. I am hoping against hope that the LS460L will have the option of AWD next year. Have you folks heard anything new on this front? My dealer told me just the other day that they have heard nothing of the sort. They do not think AWD will be available even next year. But, what do they know?

chicago5

Classification correctionThe new Lexus LS460 is regular wheel base and long wheel base. RWB and LWB. The regular wheel base is by no means short

guest

Your in a tough spot! :mad:

It could show up in time for next winter, since Lexus made that mandate about all their cars having AWD. And I'm sure every Detroit/Chicago/Boston/NY dealer is in lexus' ear about that issue.

If demand is as strong as I think, they may just wait until the the mid-gen update in 2009, when everyone's 3-year lease is up from the launch this year.

Personally, I would wait more than two years.

BMW doesn't offer it on their 7, do they.

DrFill

guest

What competitive models did they have from Germany to drive?

DrFill

ljflx

Ok - I also drove both cars (LWB and regular)and they are spectacular. Handling is definitely crisper and cars are very luxurious in and out. Trunk is fine, footwell nonsense is nothing but bunk and seats are very comfortable. Brakes were excellent. The LWB car was the looker and the better ride but it had air suspension vs the base suspension so the comoparo is not an even one. Car looks spectacular in the smokey granite mica and that's the color of the SWB model I drove. Heck it's a beautifully designed car and should look great in any color. I'd say the SWB car (the one I drove stickered at $68k) is a great upgrade of the existing LS430, with sportier handling, a firmer ride yet one that sacrifices nothing in smoothness, has more luxury and a lot more power and great styling. Everything about the LWB is perfect. The car I drove stickered at $83K and change. The ML is unbelievable with the 19 speakers. The car just exudes luxury, confidence and has excellent performance particularly in sport mode. This car is like a bank vault. Can't wait till it's in my garage. I didn't even care about AWD when I left, I just knew I wanted the car yesterday.

Now the LS600HL is going to blow us all away, I just see that coming. If you can afford it you may not be able to pass it up unless the trunk really is small and is a deal breaker. But that car is going to have so many deal winners.

Bottom line is Lexus built versions of this car that meet a variety of economic demographics and will hit each demograpic perfectly.

Some news I got - AWD is a definite but when is unknown - likely in the spring (what timing!). At my dealership the demand is high on the LWB model and people are writing checks and buying those cars and tending to lease the SWB model. Anyone who thought Lexus would have a hard time selling cars at $90K better rethink that one real fast. Car is red hot and not easy to get but we all knew that would be the case.

excelsior88

The first 100 LS 600h L vehicles will offer unique traits such as Truffle Mica exterior paint coupled with Alabaster leather and black trim interior, special alloy wheels, a commemorative interior badge, and a custom-made, three-piece Italian luggage set in coordinating Alabaster leather with black trim.

From a post at CL, quoting an article
http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/708278/lexus_and_cedarssinai_continue_on_the- _road_to_a_cure/index.html?source=r_health

oac

I'd say the SWB car (the one I drove stickered at $68k) is a great upgrade of the existing LS430, with sportier handling, a firmer ride yet one that sacrifices nothing in smoothness, has more luxury and a lot more power and great styling..

Len, can you lay out what features were on this car ? BTW, your description of your test drives was crisp and matter-of-factly... the way I like it... Thanks. Are you taking home that LWB next March or are you going to get in early before your lease ends ?

And on the $80K+ LS selling briskly, what would those who have knocked Lexus as a cheap alternative to the pricier German brands now say, eh ? Seems the LS is now priced even higher than the 7 and A8, and is a whisker off the S550 price. Good for Lexus.... They have achieved the prestige and status, and are showing it off in their new 460 twins. So when a $100K 600hL arrives, that'd just be a cinch for the arrival of Lexus in the upper tier of luxury brand...