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Ford Edge Too Heavy? How's the Handling?
coldcranker
Member Posts: 877
A Freestyle is 200 lbs lighter than the Edge, while the Freestyle is a foot longer! This Edge is overweight. Thats a technology leap? Newer vehicles are supposed to retain stiffness and strength while getting lighter, not heavier. My Freestyle SE, FWD '05 model has more cargo room in the back (3rd seat, too) while its about the same roominess up front, all in a Volvo-derived chassis. Those thinking about an Edge should get a Freestyle and get better MPG as well (Freestyle gets 27 mpg highway, while the Edge gets 25 mpg highway). Sure the Edge has the edge with the new V6, but the old Duratec has evolved into a nice 203 hp / 205 ft-lb sweet machine in the Freestyle.
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If they put the 3.5l V6 in the Freestyle, we're there!
The newer technologies incorporated into the Edge will be a considerable leap over the Freestyle.
The Volvo frame in the Freestyle, for me, has too stiff a ride.
The small 203 hp Duratec has a hard enough time lugging around 5 passengers in the Ford 500/Montego..now, it's being taxed more with the extra weight of 2 more passengers!
The extra 2 mpg in the Freestyle is a non-issue for people considering the Edge, as is that tiny, hard to get in and out of, 3rd row! (More for children than adults)
That's not the market Ford is after!
The Toyato Sienna, which is in direct competition with the Freestyle, is heads and shoulders above it in every way, as will the Edge!
Ford has finally realized, that to compete in a world class market, the Edge has to be world class.
Something the Freestyle, IMHO, does not achieve!
However, buyers will be the judge.
Ford is betting the ranch on the Edge!!!!
The billions spent on R&D, upgrading the plant where it's built and hiring the head of QC away from Toyota, is a barometer of how commited Ford is to making a vehicle that will truly be a winner!!
VB
Have you even been in the Freestyle's rear seat? It's probably the largest/ most accessible 3rd row of any car in that segment. Sure, it's not quite as funtional as say, the rear seat in a Honda Odessey or Toyota Sienna, but those are minivans after all.
"The Toyato Sienna, which is in direct competition with the Freestyle, is heads and shoulders above it in every way, as will the Edge! "
While some people may cross shop these two vehicles, they are not really in direct compeition. One is a crossover and one is a minivan. The Sienna does smoke the Ford FreeSTAR minivan, but that's another issue.
I think it's smart for now for Ford to have both the Edge and the Freestyle on their lots. One is 5 passenger and one is 7; they are dynamically different and have significantly different styling. With all the specialization going on in this segment they're going to have to have some overlap in these vehicles; there's no way around it. If the Edge ends up stealing all the Freestyle sales, it would probably not be a big issue to add a third row to the Edge, or update and differentialte the Freestyle in the next revision. With Fords larger "Fairlane" people mover on the horizon, it seems there might not be room for the Edge, Freestyle, Escape, Explorer, and Fairlane all in the same lineup though.
5 seats - Escape / Mariner / Tribute
5 seats - CX-7
5 seats - Edge
6 or 7 seats - Freestyle
5, 6 or 7 seats - Explorer / Mountaineer
7 seats - CX-9
5, 6 or 7 seats - Expedition / Navigator
I received the electronic copy of the December Car & Driver issue yesterday, and it contains a full test of the Edge (plus the magazine has a totally new format).
The newer technologies incorporated into the Edge will be a considerable leap over the Freestyle."
Not going to happen, since the Edge is a bloated Ford Fusion chassis. Its incredibly heavy for its dimensions (by about 400 lbs or so), making it less than a sports car. Its high center of gravity won't help either. I just don't see how the Edge will be highly rated by consumers, and Car and Driver, Road and Track, Motor Trend... we'll see. I'm hoping I'm wrong about it since Ford needs a winner.
Compared to what? From various sources:
A BMW X3 curb weight is 4,012 - with a 3l engine.
A Subaru Tribeca is 4,210 - with a 3l engine.
A Honda Pilot weighs 4,453 - with a 3.5l engine.
A BMW X5 weighs 4,696 lbs - with a 3l engine.
A Volkswagon Taureg weighs 5,086 lbs - with a 3.2l V6.
Depending on who you believe, the Edge weighs between 4,098 and 4,282 lbs - with larger dimensions and a 3.5l engine and more horsepower than most of the above. They're all piggies.
The reviews I've read on the Edge thus far have been extremely favorable - even some of the non-mainstream guys that were prepared to hate it for all the reasons you describe. But, they don't - they like it.
Seriously, do you know anyone who is considering a sports car but might buy a CUV after reading a review in Motor Trend? Those zany guys who in 2006 named, as "Truck of the Year" the Honda Ridgeline?
The rumor from a reliable Ford employee who frequents these forums is that the Freestyle and Five Hundred will be getting the Duratec35, along with a Fusion/Edge-like facelift, for an early MY2008 run. IIRC you'll see the new versions of them sometime in the Spring of 2007 as '08 models. Edmunds has posted some spy shots of the Freestyle with the Fusion/Edge grille as well.
I agree the weights are high. (Especially the Taureg.) The Edge doesn't look bad against those, but the Murano is 3,800 lbs (FWD version), at the same size as the Edge. The Freestyle is bigger and comes in at about 3,900 lbs. I think its because Volvo (Freestyle) and Nissan optimized the heck out of their bodies, still getting high crash test ratings at relatively light weight. At that weight, the Edge had better get a good crash test rating, for that extra mass. After all, what good is extra mass if it doesn't improve crash test ratings? It just wastes gasoline.
Remember the 203hp/205ft-lb 3.0L Duratec V6 is a 24-valve, 60 degree, steel-chain, all-aluminum V6, and has improvements from 1995. The Edge will have a new 3.5L engine, with all the first and second year bugs in it for a while. While the 3.0L Duratec isn't the best V6 of all makers out there, its not bad at all. I like mine. Nissan's VQ engines are best, probably. And who thinks the Edge's 6-speed is better than the Freestyle's and Murano's CVT (infinite gear ratios)? Also, the Edge will probably do 0-60 in 8.2 seconds compared to the Freestyle's current 9.0 seconds, not a big deal when you consider you lose MPG in the Edge, a smaller vehicle.
Note the complaints about weight (4600 lbs), which ruins braking and turning. (You're fine as long as you don't turn in that thing.) On the plus side, the Edge/MKX does get good MPG for its weight, 25 MPG in FWD form. The MKX goes 0-60 mph in 8.1 seconds, and a FWD Edge should do that in about 7.9 seconds. CarAndDriver clocked an AWD Freestyle at 8.2 seconds, meaning the "anemic" V6 in the Freestyle is only one tenth of a second slower to 60 mph than the Lincoln MKX (Edge clone)! How does the Freestyle equal the more powerful Edge in acceleration. 1. The Freestyle is several hundred pounds lighter. and, 2. The Freestyle's CVT is good at putting the power to the ground. Instead of the "good" Edge, I'd get the great Murano, CX-9, or Freestyle (bigger).
And who says the Murano is great? The Edge supposedly kicks it's butt performance wise according to the testing team that used the Murano as their benchmark.
An exceprt taken from the same article that you posted a link too:
"In the handling department, the MKX delivers a very SUV-like 0.75 g on the skidpad. But the ride is nicely isolated from the road while still keeping body roll under reasonable control."
I found no where in the article that said anything about the cornering or braking being bad. It is just SUV like and many many people are confortable with that. Also, on the contrary in another article, I read that the braking was actually very good. I'd provide the link but you know how Edmunds is about linking to other auto sites. Suffice to say, it won't be a quick search since not that many have tested the Edge.
Here we go again! The Murano does not, I will repeat, DOES NOT "NEED" premium gas, it runs perfectly fine on regular gas without any pinging, I know 'cause I owned one and only used regular. But I do agree with you on the cornering issue, who does this in a suv? So all the people who are going to screem about better performance from the premium gas, who cares, these aren't sports cars!!!
Yes we have been over this, and it does NEED premium to get the power you paid for. You NEED to let this go and understand that 99% of us are assuming that it NEEDS premium because 99% of us would want all of the power we paid for. Nissan recommends premium and the vast majority of Murano owners are using it I'm sure. I would even venture to guess that the number of Edge owners who will use the non-recommended premium fuel in their copy (for no apparent reason) will be about the same as the number of Murano owners who use the non-recommended regular 87 in theirs. Probably less than 5% IMO.
You my friend, are an exception to the rule. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
I don't think the line about "very SUV-like on the skidpad" was a complement on the Edge/MKX. Note the braking suffers, as the Freestyle does 70-0 in 192 ft, while the MKX, with wider tires than the Freestyle, does 70-0 in 197 ft. Thats the consequence of high weight: Turning, braking, acceleration, and gas mileage are all adversely affected. Some new cars will sell because they simply "look real good" and are shiny, but buyers should look at performance above looks. The Edge/MKX have too many negatives for me. The Murano is faster, brakes better, handles better, has a better V6, and gets better gas mileage than the Edge/MKX, yet people will buy the Edge/MKX, just not in great numbers. Ford needs to do better. Freestyles are bigger and more efficient, and the Murano is a better performer, so the Edge/MKX are not cutting it.
Exactly. Thank you akirby.
Pretty much any vehicle built in the last few years where the manufacturer recommends premium, because it needs it for full power, will run on regular without damage. You're losing out when you do that IMO. Also, if anyone wants to compare the Murano to the Edge fairly, HP to HP, then the Murano NEEDS premium fuel. That's the bottom line regardless of what 1% of the owners put in the fuel tank to save a few dollars.
The MAZDASPEED6 will run on 87 as well (same engine as the CX-7) FWIW. Dealers have been notoriously filling them with it and mucking up the test drives because of it. They should all be hung I say!!!!
"What it lacks in cubic footage, the 2007 Ford Edge makes up for in horsepower. Instead of the tired Duratec V6 used in countless other Fords, this SUV has an all-new 3.5-liter V6 rated at 265 horsepower at 6250 rpm and 250 pound-feet of torque at 4500 rpm. Fitted with variable intake valve timing, the 3.5-liter doesn't blow you away with its low-end response, but once it revs up a bit, the Edge feels pretty quick.
The six-speed automatic works well with the V6, delivering smooth upshifts and well-timed downshifts."
"Ford says the Edge will accelerate to 60 mph in "under 8 seconds" with either drivetrain configuration, which makes it one of the quicker sport-utes in its class. The Murano, for example, takes 8.2 seconds to reach 60, while a Hyundai Santa Fe needs 9.4 seconds."
Edmunds on handling:
"Ford's engineers are fans of the Murano's dynamics, so we weren't surprised by the Edge's agility on winding roads. It isn't tuned to be a serious athlete like the CX-9, but its reflexes are nonetheless impressive for a 4300-pound vehicle. Body roll is predictable, and the steering feels right whether you're blasting down the highway or entering a tight turn. Plus, the brake pedal has a nice, linear progression."
Seems like the Edge is not only pretty quick but does a decent handling job. Also its weight is right in with everybody else. If you want performance, get a CX-7. Now that performs. For a basic CUV, get an Edge.
Everybody except the Murano and Freestyle. The Murano is almost exactly the same size, yet weighs 400 lbs less, and the Freestyle is bigger than either and weighs about the same. Also note that the Edmunds review said "..for a 4300 lb vehicle." The Edge is a step backwards. Don't get me wrong, the Edge isn't bad, it just is not as good as a Murano, which came out almost 4 years earlier! And there are other better or as-good choices out there. Remember the Murano gets 0.81 g's on the skidpad to the Edge's 0.75, and the Murano gets sub-8second 0-60 times, beating the Edge again.
"Ford says the Edge will accelerate to 60 mph in "under 8 seconds" with either drivetrain configuration, which makes it one of the quicker sport-utes in its class. The Murano, for example, takes 8.2 seconds to reach 60, while a Hyundai Santa Fe needs 9.4 seconds."
Sure the Murano came out almost four years ago but what about the new RAV4, the CRV, the Santa Fe, the CX-7, the Mitsu Endeavor.
"The Edge is a step backwards."
I just don't see how. The Edge goes faster, is probably quieter due to all the sound deadening, is cheaper, and uses premium fuel to deliver its 265hp.
By saying this you're comparing a performance test from another source which isn't apples to apples. Edmund's numbers don't really tell us anything either since their Murano was tested a while ago. Wait for MT or C&D to do a comparo between the two and then you can see which one is faster and which one handles better because they will be tested under the same conditions by the same tester.
Pulling numbers out of a hat just because they may look more impressive is useless.
By comparison, I own an '05 F150 2WD short-bed, and it is 4615 lbs empty. That F150 is the latest version, and its beefy, so the smaller edge approaching that is incredible. And, an engineering degree helps a lot. I've got two, and I can tell you its usefull to be accurate in describing the way the world really works. Many Car & Driver staff members have one, and they use it. Edmunds.com people are not dummies, but its hard to compete with Car&Driver with all their superior experience.
No it's not! Where do they get this stuff? Here are the curb weights directly from the Ford website:
Curb weight
FWD 4073
AWD 4282
And I don't know for sure whether the Murano is quicker, but I do know you can't use test results from a different test 3 weeks ago, much less 3 years ago. Until they're tested at the same time by the same people it's not a valid comparison.
The extra weight comes from the huge vista roof, an option that not everyone will get. We'll just have to wait for a head to head comparison to answer the question. Right now you're just speculating (or hoping and praying).
Weight affects performance, obviously. You are right, though, that some buyers may be ignorant. One need only look at fuel economy, acceleration, braking, and turning (skidpad, agility) to get the picture. Some people buy a car because it comes in their favorite color. Others are more analytical. By the way, the Lincoln MKX (Edge clone) AWD version is 4616 lbs (Car&Driver), exactly 1 lb heavier than my F150. The Edge may be ~100 lbs less than an MKX, putting it at about 4500 lbs or so.
"Driving dynamics should be considered a strong point for the Edge. It has standard Ford steering, meaning accurate and communicative, and the ride/handling balance is about perfect for the target customer (I'd personally prefer a bit stiffer suspension settings, but most buyers will like the tuning). Acceleration is also strong, if not class leading."
We've seen the following weight comparison:
A BMW X3 curb weight is 4,012 - with a 3l engine.
A Subaru Tribeca is 4,210 - with a 3l engine.
A Honda Pilot weighs 4,453 - with a 3.5l engine.
A BMW X5 weighs 4,696 lbs - with a 3l engine.
A Volkswagon Taureg weighs 5,086 lbs - with a 3.2l V6.
We've heard that it out accelerates and handles just like a Murano. So tell me, concretely, why do you care about the weight. If the vehicle is faster than its compeition and handles just like them, do you really care? Can't we find something else to try and bash this vehicle about because this is ridiculous. A Merc S-Class is a maybe 4,000 - 5,000 pound vehicle that beats everything that is relavant 0-60 and handles with the best of them. I have yet to hear about its weight being an issue. This is what we call a non-issue.
I do find it interesting that every other review on the Edge seems different than the MT review. That has to tell you something.
I'm not saying it's not heavy - it is. But the question is how does it perform, and we haven't seen a thorough test yet. Wait and see. If it doesn't perform adequately for it's class then you can complain.
From the article at Edmunds:
"Driving dynamics should be considered a strong point for the Edge. It has standard Ford steering, meaning accurate and communicative, and the ride/handling balance is about perfect for the target customer (I'd personally prefer a bit stiffer suspension settings, but most buyers will like the tuning). Acceleration is also strong, if not class leading."
So what in the world are you talking about? Several publications have shown that the acceleration is quite brisk. The other Edmunds review said that acceleration should be in the high 7s which is near the front of CUVs. Also said that the Edge handles like the Murano. THE ONLY REVIEW, that has said something starkly different is from MT. And as I have said before are they God now where though they say something different to everyone else, they should be listened to and everyone else rejected?
CarandDriver only got 15-16mpg in its Edge test (sole driver, full gas tank). Real-world mileage (with passengers and cargo) will likely be worse.
You've got that backwards. MANY MANY MANY reviewers even state in their test drives that fuel mileage improves in the real world because in the real world, people aren't seeing how fast the car can accelerate 0 - 60, over and over again. Or seeing what it feels like and sounds like at excessive speeds. These things decrease mpg and the real world should be much better.
People buying the Freestyle are those who have a real need for carrying people in the 3rd row...more an alternative to a minivan, while those who are looking for a 5 passenger CUV are looking for something roomy and practical but sporty. The fact that the Edge is pretty big for a 5 passenger CUV doesn't matter as long as the performance, safety, handling and MPG are all competitive.
Csaba is right. He is saying what I've tried. The Edge is not quite great engineering. Engineering goals:
1. Minimize weight.
2. Maximize stiffness and crash protection.
3. Maximize fuel economy.
4. Maximize ride comfort.
5. Maximize roll stiffness (handling, skidpad values).
6. Minimize noise.
7. Maximize acceleration.
8. Maximize roominess.
When you shop for vehicles, rank each of the 8 for every vehicle compared. Then, reflect your own interests by weighting each as "I care" or "I don't care", a number from 1 to 10, you get the idea, since, for example, some people don't care a hoot about fuel economy.
A great vehicle body will show structural optimization by beating the competition in #1 and #2 above. Thats why the Edge is suspect, as its heavy without benefit.
The question is how it handles and rides and the fuel economy and we need more testing to really figure that out.