Honda Civic GX Fueling Problems

mattodmattod Member Posts: 5
in Honda
I recently bought a 99 civic gx on ebay and when I tried to fill it, it would not take any cng. I thought it might be because it had difficulty going into park, I had the cable repaired at s.f. honda but they said it would need a new regulator for over $700 installed and they are not even sure if this would fix the problem, they said it may need a new tank for several thousand $$$$. Has anyone experienced a problem where no gas would go in at a fast fill station. Also, the repair guys seemed clueless even though it was the dealership, is there any place in nor cal that works on these issues with mechanics that are experienced?
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Comments

  • thatdeonguythatdeonguy Member Posts: 52
    YIKES!
    Can you return the car and get your money back?
    You are right the mechanics sound clueless.
    What happens when you try to fast fill it.
    Does it sound like any gas is entering the car at all?
    Maybe the refueling receptacle isn't letting any cng into the tank. The pressure regulator would NOT effect filling the tank.
    Yes replacement CNG tanks are very expensive!
    Sorry I couldn't be more help. Please let us know here on the forum what happens!
  • rstrst Member Posts: 73
    If you are trying to fill the tank when the gauge shows above 3/4 it will sometimes not take any more gas because of the delivery pressure at the pumping station. I do not think there is any part beyond the receiving quick disconnect that would stop the inflow of gas. I can not even imagine needing a new tank for a 7yr old car.
  • mattodmattod Member Posts: 5
    the gas light is on and the tank is near empty. When I attach the nozzle and turn it pressurizes like normal but no gas will go in. I had a station technician there and he tried several different things and said it had to be a problem with the car.
  • mattodmattod Member Posts: 5
    they are saying to replace the recpticle first...is this a common repair issue? I had a dodge ram van 96 cng with 150,000 miles and no cng problems, I got rid of it to get a more fuel efficient gx, maybe that was the wrong decision.
  • thatdeonguythatdeonguy Member Posts: 52
    The refueling receptacle can go bad. The receptacle in my 2001 GX was changed out by the dealer during warranty because the original owner complained of smelling gas. Your's is the first I've heard of not allowing the tank to fill. Keep us advised.
  • londnrlondnr Member Posts: 55
    There is a company in the Bay area that converts new vehicles to CNG - maybe you could give them a call, if they can't help with your problem then maybe they know someone (other than the dealer) that can.

    http://www.baytechcorp.com/
  • alterecoaltereco Member Posts: 8
    Sounds like the tank valve is closed.
    maybe because it had a fill valve leak...
    Could it be that simple?
  • rogerbohlrogerbohl Member Posts: 34
    Try Daytech, in Fairfield, who claims to be certified to work on CNG cars. You can find them on the Internet, or call me for details. Labor rate is $125, but appears highly skilled. They solved one leak for me (''99 GX) but another remains, and I'll need another trip.

    R. Bohl
    415-751-3447
    rhbohl@aol.com
    San Francisco/Danville
  • rogerbohlrogerbohl Member Posts: 34
    Our recently purchased 1999 Honda GX has a very slight gas odor when left overnight in a closed garage. When left outside, there is no odor present, perhaps because a breeze flows through the ventilation system, purging the slight amount of gas inside. Is this phenomenon common? Normal?

    The car had been "certified" recently by a qualified CNG installer, and another leak detected and repaired, but the slight odor persists.
  • mattodmattod Member Posts: 5
    They installed a new recepticle but it did not fill, now they say it needs a new tank $6000 plus the cost of installation!!!!! Any suggestions????
  • tigercngtigercng Member Posts: 4
    Yes !!!
    Please open manual tank valve.
    It's placed directly on your CNG tank.
    I don't know what exactly Honda has, but
    there is an examples of manual tank valves:
    http://www.tulsagastech.com/formman.html (pic. 5, 13, 26)
    http://www.autogasitalia.it/db/prodotto.asp?lan=eng&id=923
  • tigercngtigercng Member Posts: 4
    Another one:
    http://www.teleflexgfi.com/cng_manual_cylinder_valve.php
    http://www.valvulashoffmann.com/prod01_eng.html
  • thatdeonguythatdeonguy Member Posts: 52
    I have been looking at the Honda GX supplemental manual regarding the fuel system and your problem not being able to refuel your car. My manual covers 2001-2004 GX not your 1999 GX. The only manual shutoff on the GX isolates the tank from the engine. There is NO shutoff on the tank itself. The fuel goes into the refueling receptacle and then into the "Fuel Joint Block". The "Fuel Joint Block" sits right in front of the tank (behind the rear seat) and has several sensors in it "Fuel tank pressure" "Fuel tank temperature" but NO Valves. From the "Fuel Joint Block" the fuel is piped to the cng tank. There is a "Fuel Tank Internal Solenoid valve" inside the tank. That valve supply's the car with fuel when you turn on the ignition on. I didn't think it could keep the tank from being fueled because your ignition is off when refueling. But fixing the "Fuel Tank Internal Solenoid valve" means replacing the tank. $$$ OUCH
  • rogerbohlrogerbohl Member Posts: 34
    I believe the solenoid is closed whenever the ignition is off. Since one can fill a tank with the ignition off, I don't see how even a failed solenoid could have prevented filling a tank. I suggest the chap with the problem call Daytech, before he runs out of fuel and has to be towed.
  • londnrlondnr Member Posts: 55
    Do you mean "Baytech" or Daytech?
  • rogerbohlrogerbohl Member Posts: 34
    Daytech. Daytech Automotive Towing & Auto Parts
    707-422-1660
    Fairfield CA 94533

    or Google: Daytech Fairfield
  • thatdeonguythatdeonguy Member Posts: 52
    I just had a minor service at the dealership and they suggested I change the CNG Fuel Filter B(low pressure)(every 10,000 miles). I declined the filter service thinking that the fuel that PHILL makes must be cleaner than what Honda engineer's figured that the GX would accumulate at fast-fill commercial CNG pumps. Any other PHILL users with similar experience?
  • nostrom0nostrom0 Member Posts: 44
    I change my low-pressure fuel filter every oil change (10,000 miles). What makes you think the Phill provides a cleaner gas? I have not seen data that demonstrates that conclusion.
    Honda has increased the frequency that they recommend the filter to be changed over the years as they've examined older fleet vehicles. Look at it this way: It's an inexpensive part that prevents major damage to your engine.
    I buy the filter's from Majestic Honda online for $87 each, and then the 10k mile service with the oil change is about $125.

    Bud Raymond.
  • rogerbohlrogerbohl Member Posts: 34
    Thanks for the lead. But when I went to Majestic's website, the apparently appropriate filter was P/N 25216, "CNG Filter Element Assembly" and only (?)$47. My car is a 1999 model. Did you get your 10,000 mile service at a Honda dealer? I assume you put the filter in yourself???
  • mattodmattod Member Posts: 5
    SF Honda is going to cover the cost of replacing the tank even though it is not under warranty.....I cant tell you how happy I am with honda right now!!!
  • thatdeonguythatdeonguy Member Posts: 52
    WOW Honda is going to replace your tank. Make sure you let us know how that goes. Can you find out what failed? How much a replacement tank costs.
  • nostrom0nostrom0 Member Posts: 44
    The low-pressure fuel filter is part #16230-PMS-A03. I have it changed when I take it in for the 10k mile service. Unfortunately the dealer's aren't always up to speed about what's supposed to be done, so be sure you hand them the filter and ask them to change it.
  • fbaldwinfbaldwin Member Posts: 34
    You should follow the Honda Maintenance schedule that indicates that filter B (near engine) is to be replaced every 10,000 miles. I paid $122.00 at the parts counter.

    Filter A (near rear of car) is to be drained every 10,000 and replaced every 30,000 miles. I paid $51.72 at the parts counter.

    The service manual indicates to replace the O rings every time filter A is drained but the dealer in Monrovia did not have the rings in stock.

    I think that the service sales staff do not understand the GX maintenance schedule. I was offered some other services at 15,000 (with my free engine oil change) but the service advisor did not know anything about the filter replacement schedule.
  • bank1avpbank1avp Member Posts: 78
    Did you ever get this problem repaired. The only 3 reasons I can think of why CNG won't go into the tank are:

    1. Tank is already full
    2. Fuel station pressure problem
    3. Manual shut off valve under the car in off position

    Replacing the tank would definately not do anything for you except lighten up your wallet. Even if the tank valve was malfunctioning it would still allow a fill up

    Murphy
  • hondagxsaleshondagxsales Member Posts: 33
    I believe that this year model has a manual shut off valve located in front of the drivers side rear tire. Look underneath the car and identify this valve. It may still be red. Make sure that it wasn't turned off for shipping purposes.
  • azcivicgxazcivicgx Member Posts: 2
    On the 2006 and newer Civic GX, the low pressure CNG filter is much more expensive, $253.80 at Majestic Honda which is 30% off retail price. I'm not sure why a fuel filter cost so much, but changing it every 10-15k miles will eat up a lot of the maintenance savings typically afforded by natural gas combustion. FYI- part number 16905-RNE-A00.

    Does anyone know what the cost of the high pressure CNG filter is on the 2006 GX, or what the part number is? Hopefully it is not outrageous!
  • tsmith5tsmith5 Member Posts: 5
    Does anyone know anything about the fuel guage? Where is the sensor located that gives the reading? I fill the car between 120 and 180 miles depending on the pressure of the last fill. I have never seen the low fuel warning light come on but it is probably part of the fuel gauge problem. Also I have heard conflicting info on temp. causing lower fills. I heard high temp cause less and cold weather would cause less. Which is true and if both are true how?
  • epnfrnepnfrn Member Posts: 87
    the fuel gauge is a pressure sensing device, and that's about all i know about it. as for the physics of a fill, i highly recommend hitting Wiki (look up 'ideal gas law' pV=nRT) ... in basic terms (i'm a biochemist, not physicist!); pressure, temp, volume are all related to eachother. this is why you see differences depending on temp. you absolutely can squeeze a whole lot more of the good stuff in when it is cold, even though on two different temp days you hit the same pressure. that said, theoretically that same temperature is important with how low 'empty' really is.

    similarly, this is why you'll find a much 'fuller' tank at max pressure if you use a slower-filling device ... fast fills actually generate heat in the tank as the gas particles collide at higher velocities, reducing the number of good stuff (moles) you can squeeze in at max pressure.

    i believe the owner's manual states that the gas gauge takes temp into acct when determining how much you have left (aka, when that light does come on, it should be temperature independant) and you should be able to make it the same distance (more/less) regardless of temperature.

    if someone knows more, or any part of my understanding is incorrect, please chime in!

    epi
  • tsmith5tsmith5 Member Posts: 5
    Thats more than I expected and more proof that you learn something new everyday. Thanks for the info. Still hoping for something on what i need to replace to get a working fuel gauge.
  • lakewood90712lakewood90712 Member Posts: 108
    If the fuel tank temp sensor or fuel tank press sensor goes open or shorted, the low fuel indicator will blink. The 01 / 02 GX service supplement manual has troubleshooting info.

    The manual is available from Helm , or you can find them on e-bay for about $20.

    The temp sensor is about $35 and the pressure sensor is about $250. Small chance that it is a pcm or software problem.
    This is on the high pressure side and not a do it yourself project. You are looking at $250 - $ 500 , most of that is labor.

    Sometimes honda will cover repairs out of warranty on things that just should not fail under normal use. It doesn't hurt to ask at the service dept.
  • vicjonvicjon Member Posts: 2
    Hi, I'm new to this web site and seems like this site has lots good info for Honda GX cng.
    I'm going to try replace low pressure fuel filter when it comes to replacing the filter but I'm looking for more info before I try to attempt it. need your help.

    Did any of you guys tried to replace the filter for newer Honda GX 06 or 07 ?

    For the 06 and 07 low pressure filter is located in the back of the car not like last model it was located in the front of the car next to engin.

    Here is good web site for great price for honda parts
    www.thehondapartsstore.com

    16905-S1G-003 ELEMENT ASSY., CNG FILTER $22.65

    Vic
  • tsmith5tsmith5 Member Posts: 5
    my 01 gx stopped running with a fuel problem and is at the service facility. The good news is that they did all the recall work for free including fixing the shudder in the cvt. However, the problem in the fuel delivery is the fuel pressure regulator shut valve. It must be made of gold because it is a 1500.00 part plus diagnostic and install. Along with the fuel filter replacement thought to be the problem but didnt fix i will have 2500. invested. Im glad cng is 91 cents in Ok. Anyone else had this problem cost comparable and any warranty or recall possibilities?
  • tvcoll84tvcoll84 Member Posts: 1
    I just purchased a 2001 cng honda. Ran great for a few days. Now the tank is full but the gas gauge reads empty and the lights is flashing. The car will not start. Dealer is telling me I need a high pressure regulator for $2600. He doesn't seem to be too knowledgeable. I am skeptical. Anyone have any suggestions?
  • freedmlfreedml Member Posts: 43
    Pull the HPR and send it to a good regulator repair shop. They should be able to either find a diaphragm for it or make one.
  • tlclimo1tlclimo1 Member Posts: 1
    On my 98 Contour, there are two metal hangers for the tank that clip in the rear and have a bolt holding each of the two from from the front. I do not want to take the other side out for fear it'll lose a possible free nut under a rear seat. My luck. What size are these bolts? They look like they may be metal screws. Tried two sizes from the local hardware store. One too large and other too small. Anyone know exact bolt size for these hangers?
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Since we don't have a lot of Contour discussions, your best bet would be to post in the Got a Quick, Technical Question? discussion. The folks who hang out there should be able to help you with the info you need.
  • danamandanaman Member Posts: 5
    Hey Matt. I have the same problem with my Civic GX and I want to have it taken to the dealership, but don't know if they will replace the tank like yours did. Please let me know any of the contact info. you have on the dealership that replaced the tank so I can contact them.

    Thanks
  • danamandanaman Member Posts: 5
    Recently my 1999 Civic GX would not start at a filling station after a fill-up. My family was stranded and had to have the car towed. We took it to the dealership only to find out that the part (an internal solenoid in the tank) was shorting out. I feel pretty weary about a short in my natural gas tank. Honda has said they don't feel it important to investigate but I know at least 2 others have had the same issue. Not only is it a possible safety issue but a $7000 repair bill. The part is unserviceable and the dealership said there was no preventative maintenance to prevent it. Please respond if you have similar problems with your CNG Honda so we can make sure that this problem can be taken care of.
  • freedmlfreedml Member Posts: 43
    Solenoids go bad. They open and close whenever you turn the key on, so after 10 years that happens. It isn't a safety issue -- the part of the solenoid with electricity is far away from the gas. Even if there were a spark in the tank, 100% Methane can't explode as there is no Oxygen. So, not a safety issue.

    Now, to the repair. Honda has a policy of not reinstalling a CNG tank even if they were just going to remove it to replace a solenoid. But, if you find a CNG-knowledgeable machanic, he can probably pull the tank, change the solenoid and put it back in for a few hundred bucks.
  • danamandanaman Member Posts: 5
    Does anyone know why Honda has a part that fails that they will not replace? I will look into other possibilities to get the car functional again.
  • brian144brian144 Member Posts: 1
    Where would I find a repair shop that would do the rebuild on a CNG fuel pressure regulator for a 2001 Honda Civic GX?
    Or even find a used regulator?
  • mrmongomrmongo Member Posts: 1
    I had the exact same problem with my 99 Civic GX. After being strung on by North America Honda for about a year about the possibility of Honda deploying a repair kit that would cost less than a full R&R of the fuel tank, they informed me that the kit would only extend back to 2000 models and later... Grrrr!

    I'm a chemical and materials engineer and can't believe that any competent engineer would bury the valve solenoid *inside* a fiberglass wrapped tank.

    As far as a shorting solenoid causing any explosions, not going to happen as the solenoid is in a pure methane atmosphere... need both CNG and oxygen in the right amounts to cause explosion hazard.

    It is a problem that should be taken care of, but my sense is that Honda got their money out of us and are leaving us out to dry.

    At this point, my only idea is to sell the car for parts. Does anyone have any ideas about where to sell such a car so I can net more than $500 from the used car shyster down the block?
  • freedmlfreedml Member Posts: 43
    I feel your pain. The same sort of thing happens with any of the major CNG-only parts on these cars (tank, regulator, gas gauge sender). After the warranty expires, which is mandated to be 15 years/150k miles for 2001 and newer in California, you're stuck with replacement parts that sometimes cost more than the car is worth. They're not going to engineer special repair kits for a handful of failures in low production models like the GX especially when they're more than 10 years old.
  • genegenregenegenre Member Posts: 2
    The low pressure filter at least for my 2012 cng civic was $67 purchased at the dealership. The high pressure was only $35.
  • darklighthbdarklighthb Member Posts: 1
    I have had the same problem with my 2012 Civic GX. The dealership is now stating that you must have the key completely removed from the ignition, otherwise, if the key is in the ACC position, the system may think there is a leak and shut down for a while. For most of my incidents, I did not have the key in the ignition.

    Solutions:
    1) I was able to reach under the car and turn off the emergency shutoff valve and then start the car until it stalled again, and then return the shutoff valve back to on and everything would run fine. This solution worked for about a year.
    2) Wait for about 30-40 minutes and turn the key to ACC to see if the fuel gauge starts to climb from empty. (The car starts just before the towing company arrives.)
    3) Dealership recommends removing the negative battery terminal for 15 seconds to reset the system. (Haven't tried this yet but I will buy an extra 10mm wrench for the glovebox.)
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