Well, I should've written that it's highly unlikely that it will happen. Several auto magazines (and one German automotive TV show) have written about this already and have said that it's not likely for the reasons I mentioned above. If you place the 3.2L V6 in it, it will no doubt canablise some sales from the CLK320 and MB will not want that to happen. Placing a larger engine in it would also bump up the price above the target market that MB wants to capture.
You mentioned BMW, however, if you look at the BMW (the 3-series compact/hatchback) that the MB C230K coupe is competing with, the C230K is already very well matched with it. The C230K is not a direct competitor to the BMW 3-series CI...that's what the CLK-class is for. We will most likely not get the 3-series compact in N.America, because the last generation 318ti failed to get many sales here.
I will say this though...MotorVision has mentioned that an AMG variant of the C-class coupe is already being planned, if not in the works already.
Good luck, Drew Host Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
"A larger engine would make it compete with the CLK-class" ... I'm undecided on this. The CLK320 at $41,950 includes leather, power seats, and auto trans. A similarly-equipped C-Coupe runs $28,885. If the V6 costs another $5k (the difference between the SLK230 and SLK320) that puts the C-Coupe at $33,885, which is still an $8,065 difference, or 24% more for the CLK. The E320 sedan runs 29% more than the C320 sedan...does the C320 cannibalize E320 sales?
"Placing a larger engine in it would bump up the price above the target market that MB wants to capture." ... So do the panorama roof, leather, telematics, auto trans, etc. But these are all options that you can take or not. A V6 would just be another option. I'd rather have it in lieu of the aforementioned options ;-)
"A larger engine would make it compete with the...C320 sedan" ... Someone who wants a 3-door hatch does not want a 4-door sedan. :-)
Sorry, but I have to agree with Drew; don't hold your breath waiting for the 3.2 engine in this car [except as part of a super-premium AMG deal]. If you have enough patience, I would not be surprised by a V6 alternative as part of the new engine program that will revamp all of the sixes and eights starting in 2003-4...something along the lines of a 2.8 with roughly the same HP or a little bump, say as high as 200hp...the plan is to put new heads on all of the current modular engine family, going back to 4-valves and using gasoline direct injection. This will happen gradually over a two-three year period, depending on the model and engine. At that point, I wouldn't be surprised to see them drop any 4 cyl cars for the NA market, as they have sometimes done in the past. Until then, what you see is probably what you will get...
"The CLK320 at $41,950 includes leather, power seats, and auto trans. A similarly-equipped C-Coupe runs $28,885."
That's looking at competition from a consumer's perspective. "Oh yay! I can buy it for cheaper." From Mercedes-Benz's perspective, that would be offering a similar product for less profit. "Oh yay, I am selling it for cheaper!?" Now, if you were Mercedes-Benz, would you want that kind of competition? Just as I thought...
"It", when comparing a C-Coupe and a CLK, aren't the same thing; even with the same options on paper, the CLK is gonna be a much nicer car. That's why it's a CLK class. Besides, the C-Coupe has a hatch and the CLK doesn't, which seems to be a BIG difference in the mind of U.S. consumers (note all the reviews saying Americans think of hatchbacks as "cheap cars").
Each class in the Mercedes line represents an increase in some combination of content, quality, sophistication, size and (perhaps most importantly) snob appeal :-) Each class has a price range that some group of consumers can afford. Especially with a marque like Mercedes, those with the cash are gonna opt for the pricier class because it's a status symbol.
Using your argument, the C320 sedan and E320 sedan shouldn't be allowed either?
New question: if they offered a true C-class coupe (2 doors and a trunk, just like the BMW 3-series coupe) would that deserve a V6?
That MB wants to be nice, and is not out to make as much profit as possible.
I just don't see them doing much more with the ccoupe. I agree that a v6 option would be great, but don't think that they'd want that. Same theory as the McD supersize; MB wants you to step up a size instead of being content with a smaller car with maxed out options.
I also think that MB wants the ccoupe to be just an entry-level car to whet people's appetites for the bigger cars, so that they grow into the larger models with time. If the ccoupe were as nice as a clk, then there would be no reason to step up to it.
I think that there enough differences in the c and e classes for MB to be happy with both of them in the lineup.
On to your next question: a true c class coupe would probably not fare as well, as most people in the mid-$20s market are more interested in a sporty 3-door than true 2-door. I think that the engine's fine in the c230. The more stuff that you pour into the "entry-level" car, the higher the price, and the people who are going to buy the ccoupe will be much more price-sensitive than other MB potential buyers.
I understand that the new CLK to be released at the end of next year is to move upmarket, probably with none of the current 4 cylinder engines making it to the new car (In Europe we can specify the CLK with a 2.0 and 2.3litre Kompressor.)
I'd think it's likely that a 6 cyl engine will be available for the C-Sport, but not until Mercedes have manouvered the CLK out of it's perceived competetive territory.
Fantastic car! Exceeds my expectation. The fit, finish, and quality are 100% Mercedes. The C230 has so many extra touches of class and interest. They may be typical for Mercedes, but coming from an Audi A4/TT, I am impressed!
As I promised late last week, here are my impressions after the first weekend. The comparison cars are my Audi TT and previous Audi A4.
The C230 is definitely a sport coupe in comparison to the Audi TT. Very sporty feeling but also very comfortable with many more luxury touches. The C230 handles very well around the curvy roads up in the mountains north of Scottsdale. Much quieter interior with less road noise than the TT. The Bose stereo is more enjoyable since it is not competing with engine/exhaust noise as in the TT. The manual transmission on the C230 is very smooth and easy to use. Acceleration felt smoother but maybe a little slower (did not want to stress the new engine) even though the official ratings are 7.3 secs for the C230 and 7.5 secs for the TT. There were no rattles or squeaks detectable whether the sunroof was open or closed, even when going over bumpy roads. On the way to the office this morning I averaged 32-33 mpg over about 21 miles of rural/suburban roads (non-freeway.) Even with the Arizona heat (110 degrees this weekend), the C230 AC was able to keep the interior comfortable. The sunroof tinting was not dark enough to have the rolling screen open during midday, but the rolling screen blocked virtually all the radiant heat when closed. Having the moonroof over the back seat and front is a unique and enjoyable before 10 AM and after 4 PM. My son enjoys watching the stars overhead at night.
The dash layout on the C230 is nice. I like the 3-hump cowling with the center being larger than the two sides. I shift by sound and feel rather than by tachometer readout, so I do not need it to be so big as to compete with the speedometer for attention. When needed it is easy to see and read.
Regarding the parking brake on the floor rather than in the center console, I like the C230 layout better. I normally do not park on steep hills and normally just leave the car in gear rather than use the parking brake. Most of the time, having the parking brake in the center console uses up too much valuable space. The primary downside of the on-the-floor layout is that there is no angled footrest for the left foot between clutch usage.
The leather seats are very firm and supportive. The perforated leather on the main seating surface is much cooler than solid leather. As compared to the sedans, the leather in the doors is taut rather than loose with folds. In my opinion, the taut leather gives a sportier look rather than pure luxury. It is interesting that the perforated leather is also used on the door panels. The aluminum interior trim goes very nicely with the Oyster color and tauter upholstery. Wood probably would have looked out of place in this car.
I think that the black exterior door handles look fine with the Magma red. There is also black trim around the rear spoiler and on the door pillars, so the black handles complement the overall look very well. Maybe with some other color body-colored door handles might be preferable, but I prefer the black handles with the red.
The lower insert in the rear does have distortions in it like people have noted. Again, it is low enough to be below the line of site for normal driving. When backing up, the distortions are not a problem. Besides, the right exterior rearview mirror automatically tilts down when in reverse to provide a good curb view.
The TT has more of a sports car feel and sound, as I would expect. The TT rides stiffer and grips the curves better (probably an unfair comparison since the TT is quattro.) The TT’s engine has more of a guttural roar, again a combination of design and smaller turbocharged engine (1.8 liter turbo, 180 hp, 173 ft-lbs.) The C230 seems to have better low-end pull in the middle gears than the TT. I do like the AC control on the TT a little better, but the C230’s AC is more versatile. The C230 has dual climate control with vents in the rear. The C230 temperature is analog controlled. The TT has a single digital temperature setting. Of course, my C230 only has the standard AC, not the premium automatic AC that would have provided the digital temperature setting.
Styling is very subjective, but my take is that while very nice and clean, the C230 styling is not overly unique in comparison to the TT. I mean that, when viewed in a parking lot from a few hundred feet away, the TT is distinctly a TT from any angle. The C230 is somewhat generic from a side view, looks like a Mercedes from the front, and looks somewhat Renault-like from the rear. This does not make one better than the other, just different. The TT is designed to stand out. The C230 seems designed to be classic and to blend nicely with the Mercedes family.
I wish that the C230 could be set to provide an audible alert when the alarm is armed and disarmed. In the bright sun, it can be difficult to see the lights flash. I would also like to be able to crack open slightly the sunroof without having the rolling screen open. Based on the manual, it appears that the sunroof is interlocked to not operate unless the sunscreen is open. Being able to crack the sunroof when parked in the hot sun would be a definite plus in the Arizona sun. Of course, a sunroof is not even an option on the TT.
In some areas, the C230 instruction manual is less than clear. For example, it states that the dial between the two center dashboard vents is to mix outside air with the AC or heater air flowing through the dashboard vents. However, it is not clear whether the dial should be in the position with the blue dots to allow air inflow or in the position without blue dots. It is hard to tell since I cannot detect any difference with the AC running.
I have only noticed one minor item that apparently is normal for Mercedes. The steering wheel is not aligned perfectly. The tire alignment is fine but the wheel is rotated off-center by about 5 degrees when traveling down a straight road. Like I said, very minor, but surprising that it is normal.
Someone had asked about fuel tank capacity. It is 16.4 gallons, giving a range of 400 to 500 miles.
Some of the extras that we were not expecting are: automatic glare-reducing rearview mirror; built-in garage door opener; memory seats linked to each key in addition to the 3 memory settings; exterior rearview mirror and steering wheel tilt/extension linked to seat memory position; motorized headrest linked to seat memory; automatically retracting headrest when the seat back is tilted forward for entry into the back seats; seat bottom tilts forward in addition to seat back allowing a very large clearance for rear seat entry; two separate sets of average mph/mpg/distance/time settings (allows monitoring both since last fuel fill-up and since start of specific leg of trip simultaneously); air-conditioned lower storage compartment in center armrest; adjustable center armrest in front; automatic right rearview mirror tilt-down when in reverse.
Some things that would have been nice to have: cupholder(s) and/or center armrest in rear seat; ability to crack open the sunroof without having the sunshade open; pockets on seatbacks of front seats;
I must also mention that the buying experience for the Mercedes was far superior to anything I have ever experienced before, even when compared to the two different Audi dealers I have bought from. Derek Holton at Schumacher European in Scottsdale was exemplary throughout the whole process from placing the pre-order in March, through the build order in April, and on through delivery last week. He kept us informed about the progress along the way and even shared articles about the car that he located in the press. We were treated like people interested in buying a fine car with no pre-judgments. He neither pressured us to act quickly nor to buy something more expensive.
We had considered a BMW coupe, but when we went to the dealer, they either treated us like just another number, like we could not afford their product, or like they did not have time for us if all we were interested in was a 3-Series. Their attitude was as if there was a line of people behind us waiting for the chance to do business with them. At Schumacher, I feel that we were treated with the same respect as if we were buying an S-Class sedan. I am looking forward to a long and rewarding experience with Schumacher European.
I keep asking myself how Mercedes can pack so much into such a comparatively low price for this segment. I must admit that I never even looked at any of the cars that Mercedes lists as competition for the C230 (Integra, Prelude, Celica, Solara, and Eclipse.) There is more to a car than off-the-line speed. In my mind, the competition based on features, quality, and reputation currently includes the BMW 3-Series coupe and the Audi A4. While others built fine cars, my preference is for the firm feel and tautness characteristic of German cars.
Was very good to hear that you're happy; makes me more sure of my upcoming order.
How annoying is the location of the power window switches for you? On my test drive, I really could not believe their positioning.
You might want to check with the service dept. at your dealer to see if there's any programming that they can do to give you an audible signal on alarm arming. I know that some other cars have the option, and the dealers can able/disable it.
I was also surprised by a couple of the standard things on the car for the price. The two-part armrest was such a nice feature.
I was really impressed with the rear room, once you pull the seat bottom forward, and put down the back.
I never thought I'd use value and Mercedes Benz in a sentence, but the more I see of the car, the more impressed I get with the standard features.
Went and test drove the C230 yesterday. Got out of the car and wrote a check. I could not believe the feature content for the price. Plus that SERVICE who can go wrong? I had to order mine so it will not be in until the end of September but I keep reading over the specs and giggling like a kid. I just cannot believe it. I am getting black and it is going to be my NEW baby!!!!
Anyone heard anything about the Evolution and the Evolution AMG packages? when/if they are going to be made available in the states? Only info I've found is on the German specs... Evolution Evolution AMG
No I was not able to get any package discounts but my sister works for Mercedes so I got a nice discount.
I got a black one, with the rain-sensing wipers and panorama roof, the power seats, cd changer, automatic (sticks suck in our southern CA gridlocked freeways. On my way now to the dealer for another drive. Will fill you all in on the details.
Besides the rattling panarama moonroof, gaudy seat fabric, steering wheels tilted to one side, clunky clutch and distorted rear plexi glass, what else have new owners found less than perfect? I suppose it will take a few weeks or months of ownership for some issues to become apparent.
It's Option C7, "Wheel Package". The title really gets the blood boiling, doesn't it?
Great price, though. I went back to the dealer and priced out my car at $30,530 total (includes NJ bribe of 6%). Just waiting on preapproval for loan from the bank (just in case there's something that I don't know of on the old credit report), then it's to the ordering process, then the agonizing 3 month wait.
Since I am in no hurry to buy a new car, if I were to decide on a C230, I might wait until the next time I want to fly to Germany to buy it. What type of discount goes with the European Delivery Program? The disadvantage would be that I would need to keep two car loans until the C230 was shipped back to the US. If I were to order one instead of taking whatever they have available in stock, I would need to wait 3 months for them to build and deliver it anyway.
Since several people are pondering whether to place a C230K on order, I would like to offer for consideration my impressions of my C230KMT after a road trip. In a previous post (07/17/01), I had shared my first impressions after driving around town the first weekend of ownership. This last weekend my wife and I took the C230 to Tucson from Scottsdale, putting on a little over 300 miles, two-thirds of it interstate freeway.
The stats: The gas mileage averaged 30.2 mpg on the interstate with an average speed of 73 mph. With the 16.4-gallon fuel tank, that would give a respectable 492 range to empty. As expected, the fuel economy was a little lower than I had achieved in my daily commute to work, which was 32 to 33 mpg at 45 to 50 mph.
The feel: Extremely stable at high speeds. The automobile felt very solid, the engine noise was not intrusive even when cruising at 75+ mph. I was amazed at the virtual absence of wind noise at the same speed. There were no squeaks or rattles detectable at any speed even over somewhat rough surfaces.
The C230KMT had plenty of power to enter traffic from the on ramps. Passing acceleration was good when at speed (even from 6th gear although a few times I had to drop to 5th to increase acceleration.) I can see how this is an automobile that would be quite at home on the Autobahn.
The seats were extremely comfortable throughout the trip. After sitting for almost 2 hours straight there was absolutely no seat fatigue.
I had mentioned in an earlier post that I would recommend keeping the rolling sunshade closed during midday in Arizona. However, when not stopping and getting in and out, I found that the level of tinting in the sunroof glass combined with the AC system was sufficient to keep the interior comfortable with the rolling shades open while driving down the interstate. With the size of the sunroof glass, it was almost like a convertible, yet without the wind and at a comfortable 73 degrees (versus 107 degrees outside.)
I appreciate the overall size of the C230K. I have driven my share of "land-yachts" and never liked how hard they were to maneuver in tight spaces. The C230K is large enough to accommodate my family and extremely maneuverable in tight situations.
I am still finding little touches of good ergonomic design. The latest is that the turn signal is designed such that if you pull it up or push it down to signal a lane change without fully engaging the turn signal, the electronics will take over and blink the signal 2 or 3 more times after you let go of the signal. In other words, instead of a single "blink" created by just moving the turn signal stalk, the other drivers receive no less than 2 blinks, increasing the likelihood that they will see your signal. Sometimes small things can make the difference. I have never experienced this design on any other car. Another nice convenience feature is a single button on the side of the rear seat headrests that flips them down so that they do not interfere with folding the rear seat flat. The height-adjustable center armrest was a nice touch when my wife and I alternated driving. It is a nice touch that the cover behind the rear seat has two humps trailing behind the rear seat headrests.
The dual trip computer really was nice on a trip like this. The "From Reset" screen could keep track of progress and fuel economy since the last fill-up (or the beginning of the trip) while the "From Start" screen could track just the latest leg of the trip.
I must also put a plug in for the relatively new ceramic-based Hüperoptik tinting. This is the tinting that my dealer, Schumacher European Ltd., used on my car when I asked for tinting to be added. At first I was concerned because it was not as dark as previous metal-based tinting I had used. I was told that the technology was relatively new and that the lighter Hüperoptik film blocked as much or more of the UV and IR wavelengths as metal-based film without being overly dark or shiny. After driving for hours on the interstate with the sun coming in the side and rear windows, I must admit that it seems that they were right. The lighter film blocked more heat than my previous films on other cars. According to Hüperoptik's web-site (www.huperoptik.com), their film does not use dye so will not be prone to fading or discoloring (haven't we all seen purple-tinted windows.) It is too early to validate that claim, but it is nice to not be driving around in the dark in the middle of the day.
Someone had asked if the rear windows opened. No they do not, but I have never wanted to open the rear windows in any previous coupé, so that was not a concern for me.
I must be fair and note the not-so-positive aspects of the automobile during the trip. 1) While there are numerous storage spaces inside the cabin (both doors, glove-box, two in center console), none of them are extremely large and so are unable to store out of sight (yet accessible) some of the larger items that are often taken on road-trips, like map and guide books. While there are two cup holders for the front seat, only one of them is able to handle a large drink from a fast-food chain. 2) I am tall but not with an overly large frame (a diplomatic way of saying not portly, yet), so I quickly found the Easy-Entry feature more of an annoyance than a help. Since you must depress the clutch to start the engine, with the Easy-Entry feature having slid the drivers' seat all the way back, it was tricky reaching the clutch to start the engine. Then the seat starts moving forward while you are engaging the starter. For me, there is more than ample room to enter and exit without moving the seat back and the steering wheel out of the way, so I disengaged that feature. 3) I was a little disappointed that it took a full 5 minutes before someone answered the TeleAid call when I pressed the information button to ask a question about the operation of the alarm system. I did find out that it is not possible to set the MB alarm to give an audible signal when enabled or disabled. It is unfair to extrapolate from one data point, but my one experience with OnStar was that within a few seconds I was greeted by name by the OnStar operator. It may be that TeleAid routes the calls based on the type (e.g., information calls get lower priority than SOS or mechanical help) whereas OnStar has a single call button and it is up to the operator to route the call after greeting the caller. Luckily I have not had to use the SOS or the mechanical help buttons and I do not want to abuse it by trying it just to see the response time.
My wife's biggest complaint about the automobile is that I always park far away from the entrance to wherever we are going so that no one parks next to us. (I do try to be a gentleman and let her off at the door.) I admit it does seem a bit ironic that I park my C-Class way out in the lot and then pass large late-model Mercedes crammed into tight spaces on our way to the door. Oh well, she does not complain when we sell our automobiles and they command top-dollar largely because of the pristine condition they are in. I normally let up some on my fastidiousness after a few months, but not too much.
Overall, the quality, ride, security, stability, and features of my C230KMT more than make up for any minor shortfalls (I know of no automobile that is perfect in every category.) The C230KMT made for an enjoyable weekend trip and we are looking forward to taking it next week on a drive along the southern California coast. I do not expect any new impressions, but if I have any that I think might help someone make the decision on whether or not to order a C230, I will post them when we return.
PS: I admit that I am one of the new MB owners that MB hoped to attract with the C230, although not an exact match to the target demographics as I understand them. My experience base is primarily with Audi, with one Alfa-Romeo Spyder added for some Italian fun. If anyone can point me to a location that explains the logic behind the current MB designations, I would be most appreciative. From what I have garnered: C sometimes designates coupé, sometimes C-Class; K sometimes designates convertible, sometimes Kompressor; S might designate Saloon (a passenger sedan in Europe); descending rank in order of maximum price in class is CL, SL, S, CLK, E, SLK, C; and the 3-digit numerals refer to the engine size. I have no guess as to L or E, although I seem to recall that E stood for gasoline-engine in German on the earlier 300D/300E. The MT that I have used in designating my C230KMT comes from the invoice and stands for Manual Transmission.
Great first impressions. I enjoyed reading your above two posts. So tell me, has anyone gone up to you to ask about your vehicle yet?
Regarding the turn signal stalk, if you tap it without pushing down completely, it will blink 3 times. My only complaint is that sometimes I inadvertantly knock the turn signal lever and there is no way to cancel the 3 blinks, so the people at the back must think that I'm a completely idiot ;-). Tapping the stalk in the other direction in the middle of the 3 blinks will cancel, but will start the blinkers in the other direction!
Hope you can join us in tomorrow evening's MB Tuesday chat at 6-7pm Pacific! Drew Host Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
MB used to give something like a 7% discount, but now just charges msrp on Euro. delivery. What you do get: free tour of facility, free meal there, 2 free stays at hotels of your choice. It's all detailed pretty well on the website at www.mbusa.com. Also, there's a very good description of the process at www.curtrich.com - he's a TX salesguy. He's also got some thoughts on the ccoupe on the July newsletter.
-The only difference between US and EU deliv pricing is that the destination charge [whatever it currently is...$600+] is waived for EU delivery customers. As pointed out above, now that US margins are so tight, there is otherwise no difference between MSRP here or there for NA customers.
-Actually, in the context of the naming conventions, the K in CLK and SLK is "kurz", or "short", to distinguish these C-class-chassis-based cars from the SL [in the old days, its own chassis, but will be E-class based starting with the next one] or CL [which is S-class based]. Fundamentally, there are or will be 4 basic chassis used: A [front drive, to be sold here when redesigned in 2004], C, E, and S. All of the coupe / roadster variants are spinoffs from the sedan chassis, or will be with the next SL. Like BMW, there has been a habit of fudging the engine size suffix, usually for obscure marketing reasons that seen sensible in Germany, but sound bemusing to NA customers...thus a C240 actually has a 2.6 engine, while a C320 does indeed have a 3.2 engine...there are numerous other inconsistencies on this front that would take to long too document or explain.
Well, because I wanted the leather package I cannot get my new car until late october. I guess you can not use mad cow skin to make leather. I almost got the cloth so I could take delivery sooner however i think i can wait.
i did get the bose system and the cd changer, the leather package, the cool roof, power seats and the automatic tranny (which you can shift manually if you want).
i came in under 30 which was the limit on what i wanted to spend on my next car so overall i am pleased. i have decided to buy not lease and am afraid that now that i am on the road to a mercedes and i experience that kind of ownership i will never be able to own anything less......
Actually, quite a number of folks have come up to the car, asking about it, and looking all around it. Two funny stories in that context:
My wife took delivery of her VW Beetle the week after I took delivery of my C230K (she has wanted the New Beetle as her fun car ever since they came out.) Her sales rep felt sorry for her because when we went out for him to show her all the features and functions, it was parked right next to my C230K. Several bystanders were looking and asking about the C230K, including some of the other VW sales reps. Unfortunately, it took some of the thunder away from my wife's new purchase.
While driving to Tucson, I saw a BMW X5 come racing up from behind, probably going close to 100 mph. As they passed us in our C230K they put their brakes on and slowed down, allowing us to move just ahead of them as they stared out their windows trying to see what this new Mercedes was. After maybe 30 or 45 seconds they resumed their high speed and disappeared in the distance. Just goes to show that the C230K was able to catch the eye of a BMW driver even at 100 mph (I was only going the speed limit at the time, 25 mph slower.)
I have a question about the "Oyster" color leather interior. (I think someone (maybe billytt) said they had this color).
I've only seen the sample color on mb's site, and it seems to vary depending on what model car you look at. Would you say the color is beige, light gray, or cream?
Also, what color is the carpeting (I assume a slightly darker beige?)
I would concur with jrct9454, basically a light gray. The carpet is a very slightly darker shade of the same color except for the black insert in front of the driver where your heel would normally rest (in front of the clutch, brake, and accelerator.)
I have driven a 6 speed C230 three times now (at three different dealers of course!). While I am very impressed by the vehicle there is one trait that may deter me from buying. I am 53 years old and have been driving manual trans. cars for 30 years. I have driven chevys, hondas, nissans, toyotas, VW etc and most would say I am pretty proficient (you will just have to trust me on this). I have not been able to smoothy downshift the C230 yet. At first I thought I just was not tuned into the clutch characteristics but after the 3rd test drive I think I have it figured out. The shift linkage is smooth and the clutch nice and light but the the clutch engages over a very short travel. Like an on/off switch. It grabs the engine's flywheel quickly with a vice-like grip and the sudden engine drag causes the car to lurch (remember downshifting here). Its almost impossible for me to match revs and make a smooth shift. My 5 speed Celica GT is much more forgiving. I can smoothly downshift every time. I can only guess that relatively speaking the engine drag (braking) occurs more gradually as the clutch engages over a longer travel of the clutch pedal. The C230 is most annoying in this respect. I assume such a clutch makes for faster shifts and better 0-60 times which I could care less about. I want a smooth shifting sport touring car. I expected more refinement from MB. Anyone else notice this? Billytt; I enjoyed your review and would like to hear your comments on this. And yes I do give the throttle some depression when downshifting to try a match RPM to the new engine speed but there is zero margin for error here.
Thanks for the quick response! "Java" (available on the C sedans and other MB cars) would be my first choice, but since it's not, I think I'll have to see the Oyster in person to make a decision.
Joe, although a lot of people prefer smooth up-and down-shifts, that is not really good for the clutch disk because it is getting shaved (warn) much more than when it “grabs” the disk. Of course, it may not be pleasant for you, especially if you do not drive dynamically, but when one considers the price of a clutch assembly, I guess, it would be quite OK to get a little bit jerked as opposed to paying big bucks for a clutch replacement. My 99 Bimmer 323i has a short clutch as well, however, after some time it started to let me achieve smooth engagement either in up- or down-shifting. It may be the same on a Benz, i.e., after the clutch learns your preferences, it may let you do it - I believe that both Bimmers and Benzes have transmissions that adapt to one's driving style. Or, this could be a result of a clutch disk being already shaven by the driver, i.e., becoming a little bit smoother itself...
If you go to the mbworld.com C-Class forum, there is a photo posted of the interior of my C230K with Oyster leather (in response to a request for pictures.)
I am glad that you enjoyed my review and hope that it gave some worthwhile insight. Regarding your experience with downshifting, I must admit that I never quite got the hang of routinely downshifting smoothly on any previous automobiles, so I have not tried that on the C230K other than to downshift from 6th to 5th for added acceleration. At highway speeds there was a little jerkiness, but I had attributed that more to my inexperience. Based on your experience, the design might have also contributed. I understand that once mastered, the technique can add to the enjoyment of a manual transmission.
Thanks for the replys Mr. Skobola and billytt. However I must disagree with Mr. Skobola on a few points. I have owned 6 manual transmission cars since I was 16 and all downshifted smoothly and I have never had to replaced a clutch. When I downshift I do not slowly engage the clutch with a lot of slippage on my celica (or my nissan). It ocurrs quickly and smoothly in a fraction of a second. I believe that the wear I am incurring on the clutch is negligible. However you may be right that the clutch plate face becomes less grabby with time (and a little bit of wear) which smooths out downshifts. But by the way a manual transmission cannot learn driving habits. The human control center (driver) controls the movement of the transmission linkage and the clutch pedal (the only variables). But again I ask are there any other C230 drivers out there that have experienced lurching downshifts. And finally; billytt I like your oyster leather. But tell me is it solid or perforated?
I agree with tommyp13, the location of the window controls leaves something to be desired. So far, though, it has not been an issue since I rarely roll the windows down while driving in the summer, only after parking in order to leave a small opening for hot air to escape.
The leather is perforated on the seating surfaces as well as on the door insert. The only reason I can see for the perforated door insert is for visual interest rather than continuous textured solid leather. Unlike the sedan, the leather insert in the doors is taut.
I took about a 15-minute testdrive last week, and don't remember any thoughts on downshifting being a problem. I autox my crx, and it's got a short shift kit on it, so I'm used to somewhat rough downshifts. I didn't push the c230 on the testdrive too much, but thought that the tranny was pretty smooth overall. I'm going to take a longer testdrive tonight, just to make sure, before placing my order. I'll make sure to test the downshifting, and post my thoughts.
I looked at the placement of the power window switches again this morning. While they may not be placed optimally for ease of access by everyone while driving (low and forward), from my driving position (low and mid-way forward) I do not have any difficulty reaching them. I can see the possible aesthetic reason for their placement. Visually, they are out of the way. There are already a number of switches located in the “traditional” location just in front of the door handle (the power seat and steering wheel controls along with the memory settings.) Behind the door handle might force an awkward bending of the arm and would be less visually clean. As it is, the doors are very visually clean since the window controls are low and forward out-of-sight and the seat adjustments are far forward in front of the handle.
I like the positioning of the seat adjustments on the door that mimic the orientation of the driver’s seat and steering wheel relative to each other…very intuitive. Given that those are located there, I think that the only visually appealing location for the window switches on the door is where they are located. It might have presented a sportier look if they had simply placed them in the center console near the gearshift. Of course, then you run the risk of spillage into the switch or accidentally engaging it when placing an item on the center console.
I have probably given too much thought to such a small item already.
Drew, I would have liked to join the Tuesday chat but I do not normally make it home in time (Arizona does not switch to Daylight Savings time, so Pacific time is also Arizona time in the summer.)
the ccoupe pretty much dominated the discussion for the hour. I think that they post the transcript of the chat, though.
I never knew that AZ didn't switch over. I knew about a portion of Saskatchewan that doesn't do the switch, but didn't know that one of our own didn't. Is because it would be too confusing to the senior citizens?
By the way, I won't be getting the power seats, so the window switches are still in a bad position. If that's my biggest gripe, though, I should be very happy with the car.
There are three places I know of that do not use daylight savings time (DST) in the US: the northeast corner of Indiana (so that they have the same time as Chicago part of the year), Hawaii and Arizona (which don't need it). As far as I know, the purpose of DST is to make more daylight hours available during the summer. As it is, the sun doesn't go down here until around 8:00, why would we need the sun to stay up until 9:00? I have always lived here, and I always thought that it was silly that the rest of the country had to change their clocks twice a year.
As for the crack about the senior citizens, I would think that they would be more confused by the lack of the time switch since most of them come from out of state.
The entire state of Indiana does not go on DST with the exception of a few counties in NW and SW Indiana and possibly over by Cincy. The farmers have too much lobbying power.
Anyway, I'm interested in the C230, but was holding off judgment until I saw the rear-end in person. It seemed like many of the publicity photos didn't have a clear shot of the rear, so I was worried. But after finally seeing one, I didn't think it was that bad, so it is definitely on my list of possibilities.
Well, I took my second testdrive tonight. Made a couple of 4 to 2 downshifts, as well as a 4 to 3 downshift on a sweeping turn. The shifts were not hard, neither was releasing the clutch. While it wasn't Honda-smooth, it was pretty nice. So, I had them transfer over my deposit on a Mini to one for the ccoupe. I should be a proud owner before Halloween, I hope. Car will be: orion blue with charcoal cloth interior, Bose stereo upgrade (was a substantial difference, and don't feel like ripping out entire system), panorama roof and rain sensor, and the C7 package (17" rims and trim stuff). Also got a discounted cd shuttle thrown in.
Can't wait, especially since the CRX's a/c just died on me, so I'll be sweating the rest of the summer.
It seemed like it took forever but my silver c230 is in the garage. I have had to live through Billytt's driving experience to make it through the day!(Great job Billytt!) I saw pictures of your magma red c-230 on the MBworld site. My dream car is silver, with the bose upgrade, sunroof and manual transmission. Liken Mercedes of Ohio, did a fantastic job from start to finish. My saleswoman, Mary Sabol was very knowledgeable and professional(Rare traits these days). The car handles great and looks awesome. The amount of features and initial overall quality of the vehicle is very impressive. The only option that I miss from my previous vehicle is the Xenon (H.I.D.) lights. In my opinion Mercedes hit the mark on this one! Happy Motoring!
I posted some test drive opinions about a UK sequential manual a few weeks ago (amongst other points, I compained about the Sunroof) - a couple of days ago I had a crack at an auto:-
Very slick shifting, much, much quicker than my current BMW328ia on 'takeoff' - it's impossible to get the wheels losing traction on the BM due to the stodgy BMW slush-box, but the Merc could be forced into using it's traction contol fairly easily by using a fairly heavy right foot (this is NOT a complaint!). No-one builds automatic transmissions as good as Mercedes.
The sunroof was squeak and rattle free (so I guess my earlier cars problems must have been down to early build quality).
Whilst the auto is very good, I'm torn between the Sequentronic box and a manual - though reading the very thorough reports in this group (thanks to all of you!), I'm now far more inclined to go for the conventional 6 speed manual.
Comments
You mentioned BMW, however, if you look at the BMW (the 3-series compact/hatchback) that the MB C230K coupe is competing with, the C230K is already very well matched with it. The C230K is not a direct competitor to the BMW 3-series CI...that's what the CLK-class is for. We will most likely not get the 3-series compact in N.America, because the last generation 318ti failed to get many sales here.
I will say this though...MotorVision has mentioned that an AMG variant of the C-class coupe is already being planned, if not in the works already.
Good luck,
Drew
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"A larger engine would make it compete with the CLK-class" ... I'm undecided on this. The CLK320 at $41,950 includes leather, power seats, and auto trans. A similarly-equipped C-Coupe runs $28,885. If the V6 costs another $5k (the difference between the SLK230 and SLK320) that puts the C-Coupe at $33,885, which is still an $8,065 difference, or 24% more for the CLK. The E320 sedan runs 29% more than the C320 sedan...does the C320 cannibalize E320 sales?
"Placing a larger engine in it would bump up the price above the target market that MB wants to capture." ... So do the panorama roof, leather, telematics, auto trans, etc. But these are all options that you can take or not. A V6 would just be another option. I'd rather have it in lieu of the aforementioned options ;-)
"A larger engine would make it compete with the...C320 sedan" ... Someone who wants a 3-door hatch does not want a 4-door sedan. :-)
That's looking at competition from a consumer's perspective. "Oh yay! I can buy it for cheaper." From Mercedes-Benz's perspective, that would be offering a similar product for less profit. "Oh yay, I am selling it for cheaper!?" Now, if you were Mercedes-Benz, would you want that kind of competition? Just as I thought...
Each class in the Mercedes line represents an increase in some combination of content, quality, sophistication, size and (perhaps most importantly) snob appeal :-) Each class has a price range that some group of consumers can afford. Especially with a marque like Mercedes, those with the cash are gonna opt for the pricier class because it's a status symbol.
Using your argument, the C320 sedan and E320 sedan shouldn't be allowed either?
New question: if they offered a true C-class coupe (2 doors and a trunk, just like the BMW 3-series coupe) would that deserve a V6?
I just don't see them doing much more with the ccoupe. I agree that a v6 option would be great, but don't think that they'd want that. Same theory as the McD supersize; MB wants you to step up a size instead of being content with a smaller car with maxed out options.
I also think that MB wants the ccoupe to be just an entry-level car to whet people's appetites for the bigger cars, so that they grow into the larger models with time. If the ccoupe were as nice as a clk, then there would be no reason to step up to it.
I think that there enough differences in the c and e classes for MB to be happy with both of them in the lineup.
On to your next question: a true c class coupe would probably not fare as well, as most people in the mid-$20s market are more interested in a sporty 3-door than true 2-door. I think that the engine's fine in the c230. The more stuff that you pour into the "entry-level" car, the higher the price, and the people who are going to buy the ccoupe will be much more price-sensitive than other MB potential buyers.
I'd think it's likely that a 6 cyl engine will be available for the C-Sport, but not until Mercedes have manouvered the CLK out of it's perceived competetive territory.
Regards, JohnB.
As I promised late last week, here are my impressions after the first weekend. The comparison cars are my Audi TT and previous Audi A4.
The C230 is definitely a sport coupe in comparison to the Audi TT. Very sporty feeling but also very comfortable with many more luxury touches. The C230 handles very well around the curvy roads up in the mountains north of Scottsdale. Much quieter interior with less road noise than the TT. The Bose stereo is more enjoyable since it is not competing with engine/exhaust noise as in the TT. The manual transmission on the C230 is very smooth and easy to use. Acceleration felt smoother but maybe a little slower (did not want to stress the new engine) even though the official ratings are 7.3 secs for the C230 and 7.5 secs for the TT. There were no rattles or squeaks detectable whether the sunroof was open or closed, even when going over bumpy roads. On the way to the office this morning I averaged 32-33 mpg over about 21 miles of rural/suburban roads (non-freeway.) Even with the Arizona heat (110 degrees this weekend), the C230 AC was able to keep the interior comfortable. The sunroof tinting was not dark enough to have the rolling screen open during midday, but the rolling screen blocked virtually all the radiant heat when closed. Having the moonroof over the back seat and front is a unique and enjoyable before 10 AM and after 4 PM. My son enjoys watching the stars overhead at night.
The dash layout on the C230 is nice. I like the 3-hump cowling with the center being larger than the two sides. I shift by sound and feel rather than by tachometer readout, so I do not need it to be so big as to compete with the speedometer for attention. When needed it is easy to see and read.
Regarding the parking brake on the floor rather than in the center console, I like the C230 layout better. I normally do not park on steep hills and normally just leave the car in gear rather than use the parking brake. Most of the time, having the parking brake in the center console uses up too much valuable space. The primary downside of the on-the-floor layout is that there is no angled footrest for the left foot between clutch usage.
The leather seats are very firm and supportive. The perforated leather on the main seating surface is much cooler than solid leather. As compared to the sedans, the leather in the doors is taut rather than loose with folds. In my opinion, the taut leather gives a sportier look rather than pure luxury. It is interesting that the perforated leather is also used on the door panels. The aluminum interior trim goes very nicely with the Oyster color and tauter upholstery. Wood probably would have looked out of place in this car.
I think that the black exterior door handles look fine with the Magma red. There is also black trim around the rear spoiler and on the door pillars, so the black handles complement the overall look very well. Maybe with some other color body-colored door handles might be preferable, but I prefer the black handles with the red.
The lower insert in the rear does have distortions in it like people have noted. Again, it is low enough to be below the line of site for normal driving. When backing up, the distortions are not a problem. Besides, the right exterior rearview mirror automatically tilts down when in reverse to provide a good curb view.
The TT has more of a sports car feel and sound, as I would expect. The TT rides stiffer and grips the curves better (probably an unfair comparison since the TT is quattro.) The TT’s engine has more of a guttural roar, again a combination of design and smaller turbocharged engine (1.8 liter turbo, 180 hp, 173 ft-lbs.) The C230 seems to have better low-end pull in the middle gears than the TT. I do like the AC control on the TT a little better, but the C230’s AC is more versatile. The C230 has dual climate control with vents in the rear. The C230 temperature is analog controlled. The TT has a single digital temperature setting. Of course, my C230 only has the standard AC, not the premium automatic AC that would have provided the digital temperature setting.
Styling is very subjective, but my take is that while very nice and clean, the C230 styling is not overly unique in comparison to the TT. I mean that, when viewed in a parking lot from a few hundred feet away, the TT is distinctly a TT from any angle. The C230 is somewhat generic from a side view, looks like a Mercedes from the front, and looks somewhat Renault-like from the rear. This does not make one better than the other, just different. The TT is designed to stand out. The C230 seems designed to be classic and to blend nicely with the Mercedes family.
I wish that the C230 could be set to provide an audible alert when the alarm is armed and disarmed. In the bright sun, it can be difficult to see the lights flash. I would also like to be able to crack open slightly the sunroof without having the rolling screen open. Based on the manual, it appears that the sunroof is interlocked to not operate unless the sunscreen is open. Being able to crack the sunroof when parked in the hot sun would be a definite plus in the Arizona sun. Of course, a sunroof is not even an option on the TT.
In some areas, the C230 instruction manual is less than clear. For example, it states that the dial between the two center dashboard vents is to mix outside air with the AC or heater air flowing through the dashboard vents. However, it is not clear whether the dial should be in the position with the blue dots to allow air inflow or in the position without blue dots. It is hard to tell since I cannot detect any difference with the AC running.
I have only noticed one minor item that apparently is normal for Mercedes. The steering wheel is not aligned perfectly. The tire alignment is fine but the wheel is rotated off-center by about 5 degrees when traveling down a straight road. Like I said, very minor, but surprising that it is normal.
Someone had asked about fuel tank capacity. It is 16.4 gallons, giving a range of 400 to 500 miles.
Some things that would have been nice to have: cupholder(s) and/or center armrest in rear seat; ability to crack open the sunroof without having the sunshade open; pockets on seatbacks of front seats;
I must also mention that the buying experience for the Mercedes was far superior to anything I have ever experienced before, even when compared to the two different Audi dealers I have bought from. Derek Holton at Schumacher European in Scottsdale was exemplary throughout the whole process from placing the pre-order in March, through the build order in April, and on through delivery last week. He kept us informed about the progress along the way and even shared articles about the car that he located in the press. We were treated like people interested in buying a fine car with no pre-judgments. He neither pressured us to act quickly nor to buy something more expensive.
We had considered a BMW coupe, but when we went to the dealer, they either treated us like just another number, like we could not afford their product, or like they did not have time for us if all we were interested in was a 3-Series. Their attitude was as if there was a line of people behind us waiting for the chance to do business with them. At Schumacher, I feel that we were treated with the same respect as if we were buying an S-Class sedan. I am looking forward to a long and rewarding experience with Schumacher European.
I keep asking myself how Mercedes can pack so much into such a comparatively low price for this segment. I must admit that I never even looked at any of the cars that Mercedes lists as competition for the C230 (Integra, Prelude, Celica, Solara, and Eclipse.) There is more to a car than off-the-line speed. In my mind, the competition based on features, quality, and reputation currently includes the BMW 3-Series coupe and the Audi A4. While others built fine cars, my preference is for the firm feel and tautness characteristic of German cars.
How annoying is the location of the power window switches for you? On my test drive, I really could not believe their positioning.
You might want to check with the service dept. at your dealer to see if there's any programming that they can do to give you an audible signal on alarm arming. I know that some other cars have the option, and the dealers can able/disable it.
I was also surprised by a couple of the standard things on the car for the price. The two-part armrest was such a nice feature.
I was really impressed with the rear room, once you pull the seat bottom forward, and put down the back.
I never thought I'd use value and Mercedes Benz in a sentence, but the more I see of the car, the more impressed I get with the standard features.
Drew
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Went and test drove the C230 yesterday. Got out of the car and wrote a check. I could not believe the feature content for the price. Plus that SERVICE who can go wrong? I had to order mine so it will not be in until the end of September but I keep reading over the specs and giggling like a kid. I just cannot believe it. I am getting black and it is going to be my NEW baby!!!!
I'll probably be putting my order in this week, once I decide: Bose upgrade vs. waiting and ripping out the entire system.
Tom - Go Bose, put the mods in the CRX
Anyone heard anything about the Evolution and the Evolution AMG packages? when/if they are going to be made available in the states?
Only info I've found is on the German specs...
Evolution
Evolution AMG
Xenons are not an option for the European C-class coupe either, so I guess they're just not offered anywhere!
Drew
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No I was not able to get any package discounts but my sister works for Mercedes so I got a nice discount.
I got a black one, with the rain-sensing wipers and panorama roof, the power seats, cd changer, automatic (sticks suck in our southern CA gridlocked freeways. On my way now to the dealer for another drive. Will fill you all in on the details.
Later
I suppose it will take a few weeks or months of ownership for some issues to become apparent.
Great price, though. I went back to the dealer and priced out my car at $30,530 total (includes NJ bribe of 6%). Just waiting on preapproval for loan from the bank (just in case there's something that I don't know of on the old credit report), then it's to the ordering process, then the agonizing 3 month wait.
What type of discount goes with the European Delivery Program?
The disadvantage would be that I would need to keep two car loans until the C230 was shipped back to the US.
If I were to order one instead of taking whatever they have available in stock, I would need to wait 3 months for them to build and deliver it anyway.
The stats: The gas mileage averaged 30.2 mpg on the interstate with an average speed of 73 mph. With the 16.4-gallon fuel tank, that would give a respectable 492 range to empty. As expected, the fuel economy was a little lower than I had achieved in my daily commute to work, which was 32 to 33 mpg at 45 to 50 mph.
The feel: Extremely stable at high speeds. The automobile felt very solid, the engine noise was not intrusive even when cruising at 75+ mph. I was amazed at the virtual absence of wind noise at the same speed. There were no squeaks or rattles detectable at any speed even over somewhat rough surfaces.
The C230KMT had plenty of power to enter traffic from the on ramps. Passing acceleration was good when at speed (even from 6th gear although a few times I had to drop to 5th to increase acceleration.) I can see how this is an automobile that would be quite at home on the Autobahn.
The seats were extremely comfortable throughout the trip. After sitting for almost 2 hours straight there was absolutely no seat fatigue.
I had mentioned in an earlier post that I would recommend keeping the rolling sunshade closed during midday in Arizona. However, when not stopping and getting in and out, I found that the level of tinting in the sunroof glass combined with the AC system was sufficient to keep the interior comfortable with the rolling shades open while driving down the interstate. With the size of the sunroof glass, it was almost like a convertible, yet without the wind and at a comfortable 73 degrees (versus 107 degrees outside.)
I appreciate the overall size of the C230K. I have driven my share of "land-yachts" and never liked how hard they were to maneuver in tight spaces. The C230K is large enough to accommodate my family and extremely maneuverable in tight situations.
I am still finding little touches of good ergonomic design. The latest is that the turn signal is designed such that if you pull it up or push it down to signal a lane change without fully engaging the turn signal, the electronics will take over and blink the signal 2 or 3 more times after you let go of the signal. In other words, instead of a single "blink" created by just moving the turn signal stalk, the other drivers receive no less than 2 blinks, increasing the likelihood that they will see your signal. Sometimes small things can make the difference. I have never experienced this design on any other car. Another nice convenience feature is a single button on the side of the rear seat headrests that flips them down so that they do not interfere with folding the rear seat flat. The height-adjustable center armrest was a nice touch when my wife and I alternated driving. It is a nice touch that the cover behind the rear seat has two humps trailing behind the rear seat headrests.
The dual trip computer really was nice on a trip like this. The "From Reset" screen could keep track of progress and fuel economy since the last fill-up (or the beginning of the trip) while the "From Start" screen could track just the latest leg of the trip.
I must also put a plug in for the relatively new ceramic-based Hüperoptik tinting. This is the tinting that my dealer, Schumacher European Ltd., used on my car when I asked for tinting to be added. At first I was concerned because it was not as dark as previous metal-based tinting I had used. I was told that the technology was relatively new and that the lighter Hüperoptik film blocked as much or more of the UV and IR wavelengths as metal-based film without being overly dark or shiny. After driving for hours on the interstate with the sun coming in the side and rear windows, I must admit that it seems that they were right. The lighter film blocked more heat than my previous films on other cars. According to Hüperoptik's web-site (www.huperoptik.com), their film does not use dye so will not be prone to fading or discoloring (haven't we all seen purple-tinted windows.) It is too early to validate that claim, but it is nice to not be driving around in the dark in the middle of the day.
Someone had asked if the rear windows opened. No they do not, but I have never wanted to open the rear windows in any previous coupé, so that was not a concern for me.
I must be fair and note the not-so-positive aspects of the automobile during the trip. 1) While there are numerous storage spaces inside the cabin (both doors, glove-box, two in center console), none of them are extremely large and so are unable to store out of sight (yet accessible) some of the larger items that are often taken on road-trips, like map and guide books. While there are two cup holders for the front seat, only one of them is able to handle a large drink from a fast-food chain. 2) I am tall but not with an overly large frame (a diplomatic way of saying not portly, yet), so I quickly found the Easy-Entry feature more of an annoyance than a help. Since you must depress the clutch to start the engine, with the Easy-Entry feature having slid the drivers' seat all the way back, it was tricky reaching the clutch to start the engine. Then the seat starts moving forward while you are engaging the starter. For me, there is more than ample room to enter and exit without moving the seat back and the steering wheel out of the way, so I disengaged that feature. 3) I was a little disappointed that it took a full 5 minutes before someone answered the TeleAid call when I pressed the information button to ask a question about the operation of the alarm system. I did find out that it is not possible to set the MB alarm to give an audible signal when enabled or disabled. It is unfair to extrapolate from one data point, but my one experience with OnStar was that within a few seconds I was greeted by name by the OnStar operator. It may be that TeleAid routes the calls based on the type (e.g., information calls get lower priority than SOS or mechanical help) whereas OnStar has a single call button and it is up to the operator to route the call after greeting the caller. Luckily I have not had to use the SOS or the mechanical help buttons and I do not want to abuse it by trying it just to see the response time.
Overall, the quality, ride, security, stability, and features of my C230KMT more than make up for any minor shortfalls (I know of no automobile that is perfect in every category.) The C230KMT made for an enjoyable weekend trip and we are looking forward to taking it next week on a drive along the southern California coast. I do not expect any new impressions, but if I have any that I think might help someone make the decision on whether or not to order a C230, I will post them when we return.
PS: I admit that I am one of the new MB owners that MB hoped to attract with the C230, although not an exact match to the target demographics as I understand them. My experience base is primarily with Audi, with one Alfa-Romeo Spyder added for some Italian fun. If anyone can point me to a location that explains the logic behind the current MB designations, I would be most appreciative. From what I have garnered: C sometimes designates coupé, sometimes C-Class; K sometimes designates convertible, sometimes Kompressor; S might designate Saloon (a passenger sedan in Europe); descending rank in order of maximum price in class is CL, SL, S, CLK, E, SLK, C; and the 3-digit numerals refer to the engine size. I have no guess as to L or E, although I seem to recall that E stood for gasoline-engine in German on the earlier 300D/300E. The MT that I have used in designating my C230KMT comes from the invoice and stands for Manual Transmission.
Regarding the turn signal stalk, if you tap it without pushing down completely, it will blink 3 times. My only complaint is that sometimes I inadvertantly knock the turn signal lever and there is no way to cancel the 3 blinks, so the people at the back must think that I'm a completely idiot ;-). Tapping the stalk in the other direction in the middle of the 3 blinks will cancel, but will start the blinkers in the other direction!
Hope you can join us in tomorrow evening's MB Tuesday chat at 6-7pm Pacific!
Drew
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-Actually, in the context of the naming conventions, the K in CLK and SLK is "kurz", or "short", to distinguish these C-class-chassis-based cars from the SL [in the old days, its own chassis, but will be E-class based starting with the next one] or CL [which is S-class based].
Fundamentally, there are or will be 4 basic chassis used: A [front drive, to be sold here when redesigned in 2004], C, E, and S. All of the coupe / roadster variants are spinoffs from the sedan chassis, or will be with the next SL. Like BMW, there has been a habit of fudging the engine size suffix, usually for obscure marketing reasons that seen sensible in Germany, but sound bemusing to NA customers...thus a C240 actually has a 2.6 engine, while a C320 does indeed have a 3.2 engine...there are numerous other inconsistencies on this front that would take to long too document or explain.
i did get the bose system and the cd changer, the leather package, the cool roof, power seats and the automatic tranny (which you can shift manually if you want).
i came in under 30 which was the limit on what i wanted to spend on my next car so overall i am pleased. i have decided to buy not lease and am afraid that now that i am on the road to a mercedes and i experience that kind of ownership i will never be able to own anything less......
Actually, quite a number of folks have come up to the car, asking about it, and looking all around it. Two funny stories in that context:
My wife took delivery of her VW Beetle the week after I took delivery of my C230K (she has wanted the New Beetle as her fun car ever since they came out.) Her sales rep felt sorry for her because when we went out for him to show her all the features and functions, it was parked right next to my C230K. Several bystanders were looking and asking about the C230K, including some of the other VW sales reps. Unfortunately, it took some of the thunder away from my wife's new purchase.
While driving to Tucson, I saw a BMW X5 come racing up from behind, probably going close to 100 mph. As they passed us in our C230K they put their brakes on and slowed down, allowing us to move just ahead of them as they stared out their windows trying to see what this new Mercedes was. After maybe 30 or 45 seconds they resumed their high speed and disappeared in the distance. Just goes to show that the C230K was able to catch the eye of a BMW driver even at 100 mph (I was only going the speed limit at the time, 25 mph slower.)
I have a question about the "Oyster" color leather interior. (I think someone (maybe billytt) said they had this color).
I've only seen the sample color on mb's site, and it seems to vary depending on what model car you look at. Would you say the color is beige, light gray, or cream?
Also, what color is the carpeting (I assume a slightly darker beige?)
Thanks!
Just a reminder that the MB chat is on tonight (6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern). Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/mercedeschat.html
Topic: July 24th: "What is the stupidest thing you've seen someone do while driving?"
Joe
Thanks for the quick response! "Java" (available on the C sedans and other MB cars) would be my first choice, but since it's not, I think I'll have to see the Oyster in person to make a decision.
TysAlpha.
If you go to the mbworld.com C-Class forum, there is a photo posted of the interior of my C230K with Oyster leather (in response to a request for pictures.)
http://www.mbworld.org/forum/w203/board/messages/7098.html
But again I ask are there any other C230 drivers out there that have experienced lurching downshifts. And finally; billytt I like your oyster leather. But tell me is it solid or perforated?
The leather is perforated on the seating surfaces as well as on the door insert. The only reason I can see for the perforated door insert is for visual interest rather than continuous textured solid leather. Unlike the sedan, the leather insert in the doors is taut.
I'm going to take a longer testdrive tonight, just to make sure, before placing my order. I'll make sure to test the downshifting, and post my thoughts.
I like the positioning of the seat adjustments on the door that mimic the orientation of the driver’s seat and steering wheel relative to each other…very intuitive. Given that those are located there, I think that the only visually appealing location for the window switches on the door is where they are located. It might have presented a sportier look if they had simply placed them in the center console near the gearshift. Of course, then you run the risk of spillage into the switch or accidentally engaging it when placing an item on the center console.
I have probably given too much thought to such a small item already.
Drew,
I would have liked to join the Tuesday chat but I do not normally make it home in time (Arizona does not switch to Daylight Savings time, so Pacific time is also Arizona time in the summer.)
I never knew that AZ didn't switch over. I knew about a portion of Saskatchewan that doesn't do the switch, but didn't know that one of our own didn't. Is because it would be too confusing to the senior citizens?
By the way, I won't be getting the power seats, so the window switches are still in a bad position. If that's my biggest gripe, though, I should be very happy with the car.
As for the crack about the senior citizens, I would think that they would be more confused by the lack of the time switch since most of them come from out of state.
Tom
Anyway, I'm interested in the C230, but was holding off judgment until I saw the rear-end in person. It seemed like many of the publicity photos didn't have a clear shot of the rear, so I was worried. But after finally seeing one, I didn't think it was that bad, so it is definitely on my list of possibilities.
So, I had them transfer over my deposit on a Mini to one for the ccoupe. I should be a proud owner before Halloween, I hope.
Car will be: orion blue with charcoal cloth interior, Bose stereo upgrade (was a substantial difference, and don't feel like ripping out entire system), panorama roof and rain sensor, and the C7 package (17" rims and trim stuff). Also got a discounted cd shuttle thrown in.
Can't wait, especially since the CRX's a/c just died on me, so I'll be sweating the rest of the summer.
My saleswoman, Mary Sabol was very knowledgeable and professional(Rare traits these days). The car handles great and looks awesome. The amount of features and initial overall quality of the vehicle is very impressive. The only option that I miss from my previous vehicle is the Xenon (H.I.D.) lights. In my opinion Mercedes hit the mark on this one! Happy Motoring!
Very slick shifting, much, much quicker than my current BMW328ia on 'takeoff' - it's impossible to get the wheels losing traction on the BM due to the stodgy BMW slush-box, but the Merc could be forced into using it's traction contol fairly easily by using a fairly heavy right foot (this is NOT a complaint!). No-one builds automatic transmissions as good as Mercedes.
The sunroof was squeak and rattle free (so I guess my earlier cars problems must have been down to early build quality).
Whilst the auto is very good, I'm torn between the Sequentronic box and a manual - though reading the very thorough reports in this group (thanks to all of you!), I'm now far more inclined to go for the conventional 6 speed manual.
Regards, John