is working feverishly with Chery Motors of China on a Dodge Hornet subcompact. The Chery A1 was rumoured for a bit to be a new Dodge and it is for other markets, not sure if the A1 will come to the U.S. But Chrysler is painfully aware of the deficit and is working on bringing a competent subcompact to market ASAP.
The thing I find so difficult to understand is how, after the '73-'74 and '79-'80 oil shocks, the domestic manufacturers weren't better prepared, from a product standpoint, to confront the current challenge. The factors causing the current fuel price increases have been quite clear for some time. Detroit's lack of contingency plans, while sad, is inexcusable.
I agree completely with you. I switched from Ford to Kia in May of '99 and haven't looked to the domestics since. If any of the Big 2 and a half had something more like, oh, I don't know, a real car than the Escort in the late 90's I may still have a domestic in my driveway. I have no real allegiance to the Big Domestics to have to buy domestic, and I like the most bang for my buck, so I switched. Glad I did, too!
I am driving a '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS and, I gotta tell ya, this is a pretty nice car. And it was just a pitch over $20,000. I know, not dirt cheap, but the car has a 10 year, 100, 000 mile Warranty similar to Hyundai/Kia's(because CEO Finbarr O'Neill left Hyundai for Mitsubishi in the early 2000's and took the generous Warranty with him).
This Lancer looks fantastic and rides and handles like a fine European sport sedan, only looks much more appetizing.
Ford will bring the Verve in 2010 and that car smells of some hope for Ford and their "Way Forward" look. I don't know what Chevy is gonna bring to the table as far as a competent subcompact. They have threatened to bring some new designs that I've read about in car mags of late, but, haven't decided to go to production yet with them. If you can think of one do chime in with it. The Cobalt is actually too big and cumbersome with too short of mpg for Chevy to contend with it. The Chevy Aveo doesn't have a top reputation but works for some people. Still, Chev needs to bring more to the table.
If Dodge and Chery can manage to build the Hornet with some competent safety cage material, meet all of the U.S./N.A. homogolation requirements and price the little sting-bee fairly, it would really help Chrysler's survival chances. And if they can outfit it with an all-electric powertain, all the more slim, trim, green and tasty for them. Now, doesn't that just get you hungry for dinner? :P
Hey, maybe by 2010 we will be able to buy a car with a Chery badge at a Chrysler dealership! What an exciting opportunity to sample China's high-tech wares! :sick:
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
let me just sum up the past few posts, in my humble opinion.
Things don't look well for Chrysler. AAMOF, things don't look well for a lot of the general carmakers, with this over $4.00/gal for RUG thing going on as it is.
The impetus now should be on bringing to the U.S. market many competent all-EV's. Mitsubishi's i-MIEV is a top-go-getter for me, as well as one that probably has more obstacles getting here, the BYD e6, from China.
Lest we miss something, though, we would be sorely remiss to thumb our noses at the Chinese carriage-builders and their U.S. invasion. It's not if it's when. They'll make their way here and eventually make a decent size cannonball splash dive in to the U.S. automotive market. We need lower pricing for the masses, for one thing.
Judging by the present state of Chinese home market cars in general, I don't think they can be ready to sell their cars in the U.S. in 2010. Now whether they try to anyway or not, is not something I can adequately predict. I strongly suspect Chrysler will provide them with an avenue to do so, if they want to take their shot.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Dutch talks about Chrysler being down nearly 30% in June, referring only to this month, but from what I've noticed along the way they have to be down well over 20% for the first six months of this year. How long can it continue? He makes the point that the domestics are now burning through in excess of $1 billion per MONTH of their cash reserves. In the case of Chrysler, they didn't have much in the bank before it all started...
He mentions that in all likelehood the domestics will have to share maybe 40%, maybe even just 30% of the U.S. market in the future. Where does Chrysler fit into that picture, with GM and Ford still doing what they do?
He goes on to speculate that in the "next 6 to 9 months", some car companies will merge, some will bankrupt, and some will "just wither away", and at this point I am seriously thinking Chrysler will be one of these companies...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
"Chrysler LLC plans to idle its St. Louis South minivan plant, possibly as early as December, according to a report today on The Wall Street Journal Web site.......For the first five months, sales of the Chrysler Town & Country have fallen 13.4 percent and the Dodge Grand Caravan 34.6 percent. Sales of minivans have been hit hard by high gasoline prices........According to The Detroit News, Chrysler also is planning extended shutdowns at its Jefferson Avenue assembly plant in Detroit, which makes the Jeep Grand Cherokee and Commander. The newspaper also reported plans of an extended summer shutdown for the Toledo North assembly plant in Ohio, which makes the Dodge Nitro and Jeep Liberty."
Is there anything at Chrysler that IS doing well? I known it isn't the Ram, nor the new Avenger. I do see Calibers here and there, when I get out of town...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
results are in, and no company has done worse in 2008 than Chrysler, down 23%. No company did worse in June either: Chrysler was down 36% for the month.
""The June results reflect the industrywide impact of U.S. consumer confidence being at its lowest point since 1992," Jim Press, Chrysler's co-president, said in a statement.
Among the worst performances in the lineup for June: the Jeep Commander was down 68 percent to 1,961 vehicles, the Dodge Durango plummeted 67 percent to 1,723 vehicles, and the Chrysler Aspen fell 49 percent to 944 units sold."
It's a good thing they are considering dropping the Aspen and Commander, I think. But dropping them will not solve Chrysler's problem: almost no vehicles people want.
I think the press release is a bit duplicitous too - it mainly blames historically low consumer confidence and sales, but Chrysler's drop this year is more than twice the overall market drop, and the June-only drop is even worse.
And then the PR says "Chrysler's Let's Refuel America $2.99 Gas Guarantee Plus Cash program has been extended through July 31. The program continues to help improve showroom traffic and drive sales of the company's most fuel-efficient vehicles"
This, after just a few days ago they announced this program had not helped at all, and were calling it a failure. I think they just had to say SOMETHING because GM's 0% incentive program was such a huge success, that they are extending it through the end of the month also.
The earliest Chrysler will have genuinely new models on the market is at least 18-24 months out. I don't think it is going to make it that long without taking drastic steps. Maybe it could mortgage everything for a jumbo line of credit, like Ford did.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
How about the Ford Focus and the Chevy Malibu? How about the Ford Fusion and the Merc Milan? All nice and fairly economical cars if you go with the 4 cylinder version.
It's a radical concept,that I know,but how about if they drop all of their SUVs, and muscle cars and concentrate on small economical 4 cylinder models.Keep a downsized SUV like the Caliber and maybe a short version of their mini-vans,but at least offer a 4 cylinder version as they used to.I'm sure they could get the MPG up to 30 if they made a real effort.I was a MOPAR guy for decades,but now they have nothing to offer me.
Seems to me that chrysler should be working on getting the diesels that they offer on the cars the sell in Europe (which in their case are exactly the same as the ones they sell in the states besides the engine) over to North America ASAP, they really can't afford to be the company with the most fuel inefficient cars and trucks in the business. I personally don't think the Caliber is as bad as it is made out to be (test drove one with a friend and found it to be quite nice) The problem was at that time at least they were unwilling to come down far enough in price so my friend wound up buying a focus 5 door instead (even though she didn't like it as much) In any case Chrysler needs to be doing things now instead of 2010 etc, they need to be working hard at changes to improve the desirability of the offerings in anyway they can, I think much of the problem did come with the mercedes ownership, the product introduced in that time frame did not show the same innovation in styling etc. as chrysler used to get out of the k-car era, and get to respectable profit and product again (which was why Mercedes bought them in the first place) It just seems like under mercedes they lost the plot (the only product that was good from that point was the 300 and even it is cheapened out in the interior (probably to stop it from competing to well with the mercedes line up).
Having driven both I will say that the Focus's notable advantages over the Caliber are interior materials and handling/ride. To me the Focus is the clear winner, I don't need the Focus to also be less expensive but that is a nice bonus. ;-)
The Focus also has better fuel economy. If Chrysler could quickly get a couple of European diesels into everything they offer, it might help, but really they are so far behind the curve on figuring out where the market has been going the last four years, I'm not even sure they really deserve the chance. Instead, they could become a manufacturing conglomerate building cars for other carmakers, like the Fiat and Chinese deals in the works, as well as the deal they already have to build vans for VW.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
> If Chrysler could quickly get a couple of European diesels into everything they offer
I think the caliber and the Sebring are already sold with the 2.0 VW Injector pump diesel in Europe. It is not the latest common-rail technology so not as smooth as the newer versions, but those powertrains help them car getting acceptable fuel mileage.
Now that the 2009 Jetta 2.0 TDI ought to be sold on all 50 states, There would be a point for Chrysler to install this powertrain in their smaller models. Would be great if could add the DSG box, but it is unlikely as the European versions are manuals only.
I like the SW version of the 300C (sold as 300C SW in Europe) With the 3.0 MB Diesel, it is selling decently in Europe. It can easily edge 25 mpg on the highway.
of talks, denied officially of course, between Chrysler and Nissan to sell Altimas as Chryslers. I guess Chrysler is tired of having a midsize sedan whose retail sales are "few to none", eh?
Pretty soon Chrysler will be a hodge-podge of cars manufactured for other automakers and rebadged models from other manufacturers, sold as Dodges and Chryslers. It is hard to tell if that will ultimately help them to survive.
It was significant that Chrysler, whose sales performance was the worst of all carmakers in the most recent quarter, relied on heavy fleet sales of Caliber and Avenger even to get to the weak numbers it DID post.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
"Is It Time for Chrysler and Nissan to Think About Merging?"
To wit, Chrysler sold 6500 Sebrings and Avengers among 3700 dealers in the month of July. The JUST REDESIGNED Sebring and Avenger. Meanwhile, Altima is a very strong third place in midsize sedan sales. Chrysler could glue its own nose on the Altima and maybe sell quite a few, especially with their 100K warranty on the powertrain...
And the author's ultimate answer to the question posed in the title is that Nissan should wait until Chrysler's value drops even further and then snap them up on the cheap.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
>And the author's ultimate answer to the question posed in the title is that Nissan should wait until Chrysler's value drops even further and then snap them up on the cheap.
I think Chrysler is going to be more and more a fab-less brand, just concentrating on car design, marketing and distribution.
This seems to work for quite a few brands in China, as many (Nissan, PSA, Honda...) are being manufactured in Dongfeng factories.
Should it be the way Chrysler want to go, they will have to pay fortunes to get rid of their current production tool.
The problem lies with the quality of their products. Looking at the long term blog of the Chrysler Voyager, it could be a fair product, but sabotaged by penny-pinching and lack of development /QC issues.
The other problem is I don't see what they could bring to Nissan. All their products are gas guzzling and only correspond to a US market demand that is past or dying.
At this point, I agree with the author that it is better for Nissan to wait for the fruit to be ripe enough that it will fall in their hands.
Thanks for posting that nippon. Very interesting article. I see a merger happening in the very near future, like in October. Nissan Chrysler sounds like a good name. I see a relationship similar to the current Ford and Mercury relationship.
My Mazda3 is in the shop getting some minor bodywork done, and for now I'm renting a Dodge Caliber -- and I see why Chrysler is in trouble. The Dodge and my Mazda are theoretically comparable: Both are smallish, 5-door wagonoid hatchbacks of roughly comparable size and price (not counting rebates). But oh lordy, are these 2 cars different.
My Mazda is quick and feels athletic and light on it's feet. The interior, while not posh, is pretty nice for a fairly inexpensive car. The Dodge drives like a bigger, heavier car, with that slushy, wallowing feel all Detroit cars used to have. And it's slow. REALLY slow. (Granted, this is an automatic while my Mazda is a 5-speed, but still). And the Dodge's interior practically defines "cheap." There is not a surface anywhere that isn't hard, cheap-looking plastic, except for the cheap-looking cloth on the seats.
I now see why the Caliber is one of the few small cars whose sales haven't increased this year, and why Chrysler is in deep doo-doo.
Exactly my impressions of a Caliber I was unfortunate enough to rent earlier this year. This thing is the cheapest of the cheap, and drives like crap, and I can't understand why the press was crowing about this car when it was first released. It was completely non-competitive even then. Was it just because it was an improvement from the godawful Neon, perhaps the worst domestic car in the last decade, even taking the Cavalier into account?
Now go and try out an "Avenger" some time. I'm not sure what it is avenging, but it aint pretty. It's no surprise at all that this model, still only a year old (?) is the latest Chrysler rental fleet fave, along with its Sebring twin.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I know this is a bit off subject,but I drove a 2003 Neon with a 5 speed and loved it.It was really fun to drive and had great pick up and handling. Of course,I have no idea how good it really is long term,but for a test drive it was pretty nice.
In October my wife and I rented a Caliber (we selected from the "compact" category and happened to get a Caliber with the cvt automatic), and we thought it was fine. The interior would have benefited from more refinement, and I understand its been improved for '09, but we had nothing to criticize in terms of performance, handling, utility and fuel economy. The engine was somewhat loud on hard acceleration, which we didn't mind but others might, but I understand that this has been worked on too.
I've driven the '07 Civic, Rabbit, MINI and Focus, plus Neon, Cavalier, and previous generation (2.0) Jetta, and would probably choose one of those over a Caliber. If I were in the market for an '09 compact, I'd probably include a new Caliber in my comparison shopping before deciding, and take pricing into consideration, because with the mentioned improvements the Caliber might be competitive. In other words, I wouldn't want to prejudge. That may in part be because at parity, I'd like to favor the domestic brands. I'd like for the Detroit three to survive, and hope the domestic brands regain the competitiveness they enjoyed in the decades of the '20s-'60s. I know it looks like a long shot now, but desperation can sometimes cause companies to do great things. After all, in a sense it could be argues that the nascent Japanese auto industry was desperate in the '50s, '60s and '70s, and look what they did.
One compact that really impressed me, in terms of driving dynamics, is the Rabbit. I found it to be more satisfying to drive than the Civic. Ditto for the previous generation Jetta. The Focus also drives well, but the Civic (and Corolla) are tops in fuel economy. I value fuel economy, but assign a higher priority on how a car drives and rides.
I'm intrigued: you would choose both a Neon and a Cavalier over the Caliber if you had to buy one? Yet you start out by saying there is very little wrong with the Caliber. It's fairly damning to choose a Neon or a Cavalier over just about anything....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Good catch. I stand corrected. I didn't express myself correctly. Based on my experience with the rented Caliber, I place it ahead of the Neon and Cavalier, but behind the Civic, Rabbit/Jetta, and Focus. However, before choosing an '09, I'd try to put biases aside and give the Caliber another chance.
The Cavalier and Neon were sub par in many respects, but the substitution of a 4-speed automatic in place of the earlier 3-speed was an notable improvement. What I will say for the domestic compacts - and this is faint praise, of course - is that they can provide excellent value as used cars.
Anyway, thanks for giving me a chance to clarify my thoughts, nippononly.
I have also rented the Caliber a few times from Enterprise (common theme here). without going into a long post, I have told the folks at Enterprise (which I rent a few times a month) to not put me into a Caliber again. It feels like it's powered by a rubber band.
The problem is this car is also worst then the Elantra (talk about great value), Mazda 3, Sentra, Corrolla, Astra, etc. to name a few. Based on my experiences with the Caliber, not sure why in the world I would consider a '09 esp. since I don't think Chrysler will be around by the end of the year, at least not in its current form.
"Hedge funds could be among the next problem areas. Many rely on borrowed money to amplify their returns. With banks under pressure, many hedge funds are less able to borrow this money now, pressuring returns."
Cerebus Capital, owner of Chrysler, is a big hedge fund, although some think it's become more of a buyout firm. There are plenty of distressed properties to buy at the moment.
of talks, denied officially of course, between Chrysler and Nissan to sell Altimas as Chryslers. I guess Chrysler is tired of having a midsize sedan whose retail sales are "few to none", eh?
At one time, I heard that Nissan was also going to start selling Dodge Rams badged as Nissan trucks, so maybe this was part of the same deal. I'm actually intrigued at the idea of an Altima badge-engineered into a Chrysler or Dodge. Heck, I'd buy one before I'd buy a current Avenger or Sebring!
Pretty soon Chrysler will be a hodge-podge of cars manufactured for other automakers and rebadged models from other manufacturers, sold as Dodges and Chryslers. It is hard to tell if that will ultimately help them to survive.
That actually happened before, in the late 1970's. Plymouth in particular had to depend on foreign cars to pad their lineup. In 1979 for example, they only had two domestic-built models: the subcompact Horizon and the compact Volare. The size classes were shifting just enough with downsizing though, that the distinction between compact and intermediate was starting to blur, so it sort of filled both markets. On top of that though, they had the Arrow and Sapporo coupes, both sourced from Mitsubishi. They also had the Colt and the Champ, also from Mitsubishi, but I can't remember now if those cars were out at the same time, or if one came after the other? At one point in the 70's, they were also badging Dodge pickups, vans, and the Ramcharger SUV as Plymouths, to give the illusion of a broad lineup.
In some ways, I hate seeing Mopar have to depend on someone else to stay afloat, but hey, since I already like the Altima, and I've been a Mopar fan for ages, maybe a Mopar-badged Altima would be just the ticket for me! :surprise:
At one time, I heard that Nissan was also going to start selling Dodge Rams badged as Nissan trucks,
Oh that part is definitely going ahead, I just heard about that again recently. Of course, the Titan gave Nissan a black eye for reliability and whatnot, and sales are close to zero because of big trucks' gas-guzzling nature, so I wouldn't expect to see a ton of sales even when it is a rebadged Ram.
I saw a headline recently that seemed to imply that Chrysler was at work developing a better replacement for the Sebring and Avenger early. So I don't know about the Altima rebadging idea, it may be on hold.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I also read recently that Chrysler is looking to Nissan for their small cars. I guess the cars from Chery are "Not Ready for Primetime". You may see a re-badged Versa in Chrysler's lineup soon.
" saw a headline recently that seemed to imply that Chrysler was at work developing a better replacement for the Sebring and Avenger early. So I don't know about the Altima rebadging idea, it may be on hold."
From what I understand, improvements, including a better interior, will be made to the Avenger and Sebring before the next generation is introduced. Insofar as the next generation is concerned, it's not yet clear whether it (or they) will be a rebadged a Altima - a dangerous, albeit expeditious strategy for the long-term - or a new Chrysler platform. The news bulletins are conflicting.
Your opinion, or can you produce statistical evidence of this? Also, how does the safety of the Versa compare with that of its competitors, the Aveo, Fit, Yaris, etc.? I don't know, but your statement seems highly exaggerated. Do you know?
"Of course you have Infinity for the people that are stupid enough to pay thousands of dollars extra for a Nissan with a different grill and taillamps."
Wrong! Just plain wrong. Nissans and Infinitis use entirely different platforms. Except for the Nissan Z350, all Nissans are front wheel drive, while all Infinities are rear wheel drive.
Sorry for your experience with Toyotas and Hondas, but your experiences seem to cloud your objectivity.
I would take that post with a boulder-size grain of salt. .
As for Chrysler - I've heard that Chrysler is exploring at least two ways to address problems with the Sebring and Avenger. Only problem is that, given industry lead times, I would imagine that if the WAY to revamp these cars is still being debated, then the actual revamps are a few years down the road.
Chrysler does not have that much time, given that even GM and Ford are moving faster to bring better products to the marketplace (and Honda, Toyota and Nissan aren't easing off the accelerator pedal). I really get the impression that Cereberus got in over its head when it purchased Chrysler, and is now receiving a crash course in just how tough the automobile business really is.
...just do a MASSIVE upgrade of the interiors of both the Sebring and Avenger. A Cavalier's interior seems like that of a Lexus in comparison to these Mopar twins.
An interior upgrade would help these cars, but I think the problem runs deeper than that. IMO at least, their styling is just really awkward. The Sebring looks sort of like a bloated Corolla, and the whole thing is just a mess from every angle. I think the Avenger looks better, although the front-end is sort of blocky, in an early 80's Fairmont or K-car sort of way. And the way they tried to graft some Charger cues into the C-pillars and rear flanks of the car just looks awkward.
They're also not packaged very well for space efficiency. The trunk is something like 13 cubic feet, which has to be about the smallest in this class. I think the Accord is 14, but most other cars are more like 15-17. And just from sitting in them in auto shows, I find the Sebring/Avenger to have the most cramped back seats. The previous styles...the 2001-2006 and 1995-2000, were much better laid out IMO.
I know I'm in the minority, but the exterior appearance of Avenger and Sebring has grown on me. If they had nice interiors and better than average reliability, instead of worse than average, I'd consider one of these cars. But who wants to buy a car that requires you to struggle to justify your purchase?
It's going to be a tough slog for Chrysler in this segment, because as grbeck pointed out, the competition keeps improving rapidly. These Chrysler mid-sizers probably aren't bad cars, but its more a case where, with few exceptions (eg. Pontiac G6, perhaps), the competition is quite outstanding. By the standards of 10 years ago, these Chrysler twins are very competitive.
I had a Dodge Colt back in the day....it was a nice car. Fast and economical.Plenty of leg room for the driver,but the back seat was another story.
Wanna talk about fast? A few years back, I saw one of the older Colts, the RWD style, maybe a 1976? It had a Chrysler 440 stuffed under the hood! Probbably not too economical, but I bet it was fast. Just keep it away from sharp curves I guess.
It seems like the two possible paths for the Avenger/Sebring are:
1. rebadge an Altima. 2. develop a new RWD platform (a shrunken version of the one the 300 rides on) for the Chrysler Group midsize cars.
I would say (1) ensures the car continues to be an unprofitable part of the lineup, although it will probably generate a few more retail sales than the current models. But a rental fave it will remain.
(2) is interesting, but this company doesn't have the time and probably doesn't have the money to take it all the way to fruition.
Despite the disparaging remarks above concerning the readiness of Chinese cars to come to the U.S. market, I would say it will be two years or less before the first ones arrive, and Cerberus would do well to make agreements to make sales and manufacturing deals with them (and more with the Italians too) to use the existing plants and dealer network. Let the brand names they now have slowly fade away, or pick one and really push it, wholely abandoning the other two. Or sell Jeep, THEN push one brand and abandon the other.
Seems to me Dodge is basically a damaged brand, permanently ruined by poor quality and its rental car reputation. They could probably make more gross profits from just really pushing a shortened lineup of near-lux cars and crossovers (maybe the van too) through the Chrysler name than trying to keep both brands going. The Dodges they have already developed, like the Ram, can be sold to Nissan and rebadged.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Comments
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I am driving a '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS and, I gotta tell ya, this is a pretty nice car. And it was just a pitch over $20,000. I know, not dirt cheap, but the car has a 10 year, 100, 000 mile Warranty similar to Hyundai/Kia's(because CEO Finbarr O'Neill left Hyundai for Mitsubishi in the early 2000's and took the generous Warranty with him).
This Lancer looks fantastic and rides and handles like a fine European sport sedan, only looks much more appetizing.
Ford will bring the Verve in 2010 and that car smells of some hope for Ford and their "Way Forward" look. I don't know what Chevy is gonna bring to the table as far as a competent subcompact. They have threatened to bring some new designs that I've read about in car mags of late, but, haven't decided to go to production yet with them. If you can think of one do chime in with it. The Cobalt is actually too big and cumbersome with too short of mpg for Chevy to contend with it. The Chevy Aveo doesn't have a top reputation but works for some people. Still, Chev needs to bring more to the table.
If Dodge and Chery can manage to build the Hornet with some competent safety cage material, meet all of the U.S./N.A. homogolation requirements and price the little sting-bee fairly, it would really help Chrysler's survival chances. And if they can outfit it with an all-electric powertain, all the more slim, trim, green and tasty for them. Now, doesn't that just get you hungry for dinner? :P
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Things don't look well for Chrysler. AAMOF, things don't look well for a lot of the general carmakers, with this over $4.00/gal for RUG thing going on as it is.
The impetus now should be on bringing to the U.S. market many competent all-EV's. Mitsubishi's i-MIEV is a top-go-getter for me, as well as one that probably has more obstacles getting here, the BYD e6, from China.
Lest we miss something, though, we would be sorely remiss to thumb our noses at the Chinese carriage-builders and their U.S. invasion. It's not if it's when. They'll make their way here and eventually make a decent size cannonball splash dive in to the U.S. automotive market. We need lower pricing for the masses, for one thing.
Tag, you're it.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Judging by the present state of Chinese home market cars in general, I don't think they can be ready to sell their cars in the U.S. in 2010. Now whether they try to anyway or not, is not something I can adequately predict. I strongly suspect Chrysler will provide them with an avenue to do so, if they want to take their shot.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Dutch talks about Chrysler being down nearly 30% in June, referring only to this month, but from what I've noticed along the way they have to be down well over 20% for the first six months of this year. How long can it continue? He makes the point that the domestics are now burning through in excess of $1 billion per MONTH of their cash reserves. In the case of Chrysler, they didn't have much in the bank before it all started...
He mentions that in all likelehood the domestics will have to share maybe 40%, maybe even just 30% of the U.S. market in the future. Where does Chrysler fit into that picture, with GM and Ford still doing what they do?
He goes on to speculate that in the "next 6 to 9 months", some car companies will merge, some will bankrupt, and some will "just wither away", and at this point I am seriously thinking Chrysler will be one of these companies...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080630/ANA02/233693078/1176- /emailblast02&refsect=emailblast02
"Chrysler LLC plans to idle its St. Louis South minivan plant, possibly as early as December, according to a report today on The Wall Street Journal Web site.......For the first five months, sales of the Chrysler Town & Country have fallen 13.4 percent and the Dodge Grand Caravan 34.6 percent. Sales of minivans have been hit hard by high gasoline prices........According to The Detroit News, Chrysler also is planning extended shutdowns at its Jefferson Avenue assembly plant in Detroit, which makes the Jeep Grand Cherokee and Commander. The newspaper also reported plans of an extended summer shutdown for the Toledo North assembly plant in Ohio, which makes the Dodge Nitro and Jeep Liberty."
Is there anything at Chrysler that IS doing well? I known it isn't the Ram, nor the new Avenger. I do see Calibers here and there, when I get out of town...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
http://www.autonews.com/article/20080701/ANA02/430709541/1078/emailblast02&Profi- le=1078
""The June results reflect the industrywide impact of U.S. consumer confidence being at its lowest point since 1992," Jim Press, Chrysler's co-president, said in a statement.
Among the worst performances in the lineup for June: the Jeep Commander was down 68 percent to 1,961 vehicles, the Dodge Durango plummeted 67 percent to 1,723 vehicles, and the Chrysler Aspen fell 49 percent to 944 units sold."
It's a good thing they are considering dropping the Aspen and Commander, I think. But dropping them will not solve Chrysler's problem: almost no vehicles people want.
I think the press release is a bit duplicitous too - it mainly blames historically low consumer confidence and sales, but Chrysler's drop this year is more than twice the overall market drop, and the June-only drop is even worse.
And then the PR says "Chrysler's Let's Refuel America $2.99 Gas Guarantee Plus Cash program has been extended through July 31. The program continues to help improve showroom traffic and drive sales of the company's most fuel-efficient vehicles"
This, after just a few days ago they announced this program had not helped at all, and were calling it a failure. I think they just had to say SOMETHING because GM's 0% incentive program was such a huge success, that they are extending it through the end of the month also.
The earliest Chrysler will have genuinely new models on the market is at least 18-24 months out. I don't think it is going to make it that long without taking drastic steps. Maybe it could mortgage everything for a jumbo line of credit, like Ford did.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
In any case Chrysler needs to be doing things now instead of 2010 etc, they need to be working hard at changes to improve the desirability of the offerings in anyway they can, I think much of the problem did come with the mercedes ownership, the product introduced in that time frame did not show the same innovation in styling etc. as chrysler used to get out of the k-car era, and get to respectable profit and product again (which was why Mercedes bought them in the first place) It just seems like under mercedes they lost the plot (the only product that was good from that point was the 300 and even it is cheapened out in the interior (probably to stop it from competing to well with the mercedes line up).
The Focus also has better fuel economy. If Chrysler could quickly get a couple of European diesels into everything they offer, it might help, but really they are so far behind the curve on figuring out where the market has been going the last four years, I'm not even sure they really deserve the chance. Instead, they could become a manufacturing conglomerate building cars for other carmakers, like the Fiat and Chinese deals in the works, as well as the deal they already have to build vans for VW.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I think the caliber and the Sebring are already sold with the 2.0 VW Injector pump diesel in Europe. It is not the latest common-rail technology so not as smooth as the newer versions, but those powertrains help them car getting acceptable fuel mileage.
Now that the 2009 Jetta 2.0 TDI ought to be sold on all 50 states, There would be a point for Chrysler to install this powertrain in their smaller models. Would be great if could add the DSG box, but it is unlikely as the European versions are manuals only.
I like the SW version of the 300C (sold as 300C SW in Europe) With the 3.0 MB Diesel, it is selling decently in Europe. It can easily edge 25 mpg on the highway.
Pretty soon Chrysler will be a hodge-podge of cars manufactured for other automakers and rebadged models from other manufacturers, sold as Dodges and Chryslers. It is hard to tell if that will ultimately help them to survive.
It was significant that Chrysler, whose sales performance was the worst of all carmakers in the most recent quarter, relied on heavy fleet sales of Caliber and Avenger even to get to the weak numbers it DID post.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
So maybe becoming a marketing company that sells cars made by other automakers isn't such a bad idea.
JD Power dependability study (Yahoo)
http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2008/08/07/deal-yenta-is-it-time-for-chrysler-and-nis- san-to-think-about-merging/?mod=yahoo_hs
"Is It Time for Chrysler and Nissan to Think About Merging?"
To wit, Chrysler sold 6500 Sebrings and Avengers among 3700 dealers in the month of July. The JUST REDESIGNED Sebring and Avenger. Meanwhile, Altima is a very strong third place in midsize sedan sales. Chrysler could glue its own nose on the Altima and maybe sell quite a few, especially with their 100K warranty on the powertrain...
And the author's ultimate answer to the question posed in the title is that Nissan should wait until Chrysler's value drops even further and then snap them up on the cheap.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I think Chrysler is going to be more and more a fab-less brand, just concentrating on car design, marketing and distribution.
This seems to work for quite a few brands in China, as many (Nissan, PSA, Honda...) are being manufactured in Dongfeng factories.
Should it be the way Chrysler want to go, they will have to pay fortunes to get rid of their current production tool.
The problem lies with the quality of their products. Looking at the long term blog of the Chrysler Voyager, it could be a fair product, but sabotaged by penny-pinching and lack of development /QC issues.
The other problem is I don't see what they could bring to Nissan. All their products are gas guzzling and only correspond to a US market demand that is past or dying.
At this point, I agree with the author that it is better for Nissan to wait for the fruit to be ripe enough that it will fall in their hands.
Adding a diesel powertrain (a bluetec 3.0 MB for instance) would allow it to reach 25-30 mpg, which is pretty decent for a car that size.
Same for the voyager and all the rest of the lineup. Most Chrysler vehicles sold in Europe are diesel-powered.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
My Mazda is quick and feels athletic and light on it's feet. The interior, while not posh, is pretty nice for a fairly inexpensive car. The Dodge drives like a bigger, heavier car, with that slushy, wallowing feel all Detroit cars used to have. And it's slow. REALLY slow. (Granted, this is an automatic while my Mazda is a 5-speed, but still). And the Dodge's interior practically defines "cheap." There is not a surface anywhere that isn't hard, cheap-looking plastic, except for the cheap-looking cloth on the seats.
I now see why the Caliber is one of the few small cars whose sales haven't increased this year, and why Chrysler is in deep doo-doo.
Now go and try out an "Avenger" some time. I'm not sure what it is avenging, but it aint pretty. It's no surprise at all that this model, still only a year old (?) is the latest Chrysler rental fleet fave, along with its Sebring twin.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I've driven the '07 Civic, Rabbit, MINI and Focus, plus Neon, Cavalier, and previous generation (2.0) Jetta, and would probably choose one of those over a Caliber. If I were in the market for an '09 compact, I'd probably include a new Caliber in my comparison shopping before deciding, and take pricing into consideration, because with the mentioned improvements the Caliber might be competitive. In other words, I wouldn't want to prejudge. That may in part be because at parity, I'd like to favor the domestic brands. I'd like for the Detroit three to survive, and hope the domestic brands regain the competitiveness they enjoyed in the decades of the '20s-'60s. I know it looks like a long shot now, but desperation can sometimes cause companies to do great things. After all, in a sense it could be argues that the nascent Japanese auto industry was desperate in the '50s, '60s and '70s, and look what they did.
One compact that really impressed me, in terms of driving dynamics, is the Rabbit. I found it to be more satisfying to drive than the Civic. Ditto for the previous generation Jetta. The Focus also drives well, but the Civic (and Corolla) are tops in fuel economy. I value fuel economy, but assign a higher priority on how a car drives and rides.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The Cavalier and Neon were sub par in many respects, but the substitution of a 4-speed automatic in place of the earlier 3-speed was an notable improvement. What I will say for the domestic compacts - and this is faint praise, of course - is that they can provide excellent value as used cars.
Anyway, thanks for giving me a chance to clarify my thoughts, nippononly.
The problem is this car is also worst then the Elantra (talk about great value), Mazda 3, Sentra, Corrolla, Astra, etc. to name a few. Based on my experiences with the Caliber, not sure why in the world I would consider a '09 esp. since I don't think Chrysler will be around by the end of the year, at least not in its current form.
"Hedge funds could be among the next problem areas. Many rely on borrowed money to amplify their returns. With banks under pressure, many hedge funds are less able to borrow this money now, pressuring returns."
Cerebus Capital, owner of Chrysler, is a big hedge fund, although some think it's become more of a buyout firm. There are plenty of distressed properties to buy at the moment.
At one time, I heard that Nissan was also going to start selling Dodge Rams badged as Nissan trucks, so maybe this was part of the same deal. I'm actually intrigued at the idea of an Altima badge-engineered into a Chrysler or Dodge. Heck, I'd buy one before I'd buy a current Avenger or Sebring!
Pretty soon Chrysler will be a hodge-podge of cars manufactured for other automakers and rebadged models from other manufacturers, sold as Dodges and Chryslers. It is hard to tell if that will ultimately help them to survive.
That actually happened before, in the late 1970's. Plymouth in particular had to depend on foreign cars to pad their lineup. In 1979 for example, they only had two domestic-built models: the subcompact Horizon and the compact Volare. The size classes were shifting just enough with downsizing though, that the distinction between compact and intermediate was starting to blur, so it sort of filled both markets. On top of that though, they had the Arrow and Sapporo coupes, both sourced from Mitsubishi. They also had the Colt and the Champ, also from Mitsubishi, but I can't remember now if those cars were out at the same time, or if one came after the other? At one point in the 70's, they were also badging Dodge pickups, vans, and the Ramcharger SUV as Plymouths, to give the illusion of a broad lineup.
In some ways, I hate seeing Mopar have to depend on someone else to stay afloat, but hey, since I already like the Altima, and I've been a Mopar fan for ages, maybe a Mopar-badged Altima would be just the ticket for me! :surprise:
Oh that part is definitely going ahead, I just heard about that again recently. Of course, the Titan gave Nissan a black eye for reliability and whatnot, and sales are close to zero because of big trucks' gas-guzzling nature, so I wouldn't expect to see a ton of sales even when it is a rebadged Ram.
I saw a headline recently that seemed to imply that Chrysler was at work developing a better replacement for the Sebring and Avenger early. So I don't know about the Altima rebadging idea, it may be on hold.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Hey, good idea! But why stop there; why not revive DeSoto (answer not required)?
Maybe they'll call it the Chrysler Visa.
From what I understand, improvements, including a better interior, will be made to the Avenger and Sebring before the next generation is introduced. Insofar as the next generation is concerned, it's not yet clear whether it (or they) will be a rebadged a Altima - a dangerous, albeit expeditious strategy for the long-term - or a new Chrysler platform. The news bulletins are conflicting.
Your opinion, or can you produce statistical evidence of this? Also, how does the safety of the Versa compare with that of its competitors, the Aveo, Fit, Yaris, etc.? I don't know, but your statement seems highly exaggerated. Do you know?
"Of course you have Infinity for the people that are stupid enough to pay thousands of dollars extra for a Nissan with a different grill and taillamps."
Wrong! Just plain wrong. Nissans and Infinitis use entirely different platforms. Except for the Nissan Z350, all Nissans are front wheel drive, while all Infinities are
rear wheel drive.
Sorry for your experience with Toyotas and Hondas, but your experiences seem to cloud your objectivity.
As for Chrysler - I've heard that Chrysler is exploring at least two ways to address problems with the Sebring and Avenger. Only problem is that, given industry lead times, I would imagine that if the WAY to revamp these cars is still being debated, then the actual revamps are a few years down the road.
Chrysler does not have that much time, given that even GM and Ford are moving faster to bring better products to the marketplace (and Honda, Toyota and Nissan aren't easing off the accelerator pedal). I really get the impression that Cereberus got in over its head when it purchased Chrysler, and is now receiving a crash course in just how tough the automobile business really is.
They're also not packaged very well for space efficiency. The trunk is something like 13 cubic feet, which has to be about the smallest in this class. I think the Accord is 14, but most other cars are more like 15-17. And just from sitting in them in auto shows, I find the Sebring/Avenger to have the most cramped back seats. The previous styles...the 2001-2006 and 1995-2000, were much better laid out IMO.
It's going to be a tough slog for Chrysler in this segment, because as grbeck pointed out, the competition keeps improving rapidly. These Chrysler mid-sizers probably aren't bad cars, but its more a case where, with few exceptions (eg. Pontiac G6, perhaps), the competition is quite outstanding. By the standards of 10 years ago, these Chrysler twins are very competitive.
Wanna talk about fast? A few years back, I saw one of the older Colts, the RWD style, maybe a 1976? It had a Chrysler 440 stuffed under the hood! Probbably not too economical, but I bet it was fast. Just keep it away from sharp curves I guess.
One for economy and one for power.
1. rebadge an Altima.
2. develop a new RWD platform (a shrunken version of the one the 300 rides on) for the Chrysler Group midsize cars.
I would say (1) ensures the car continues to be an unprofitable part of the lineup, although it will probably generate a few more retail sales than the current models. But a rental fave it will remain.
(2) is interesting, but this company doesn't have the time and probably doesn't have the money to take it all the way to fruition.
Despite the disparaging remarks above concerning the readiness of Chinese cars to come to the U.S. market, I would say it will be two years or less before the first ones arrive, and Cerberus would do well to make agreements to make sales and manufacturing deals with them (and more with the Italians too) to use the existing plants and dealer network. Let the brand names they now have slowly fade away, or pick one and really push it, wholely abandoning the other two. Or sell Jeep, THEN push one brand and abandon the other.
Seems to me Dodge is basically a damaged brand, permanently ruined by poor quality and its rental car reputation. They could probably make more gross profits from just really pushing a shortened lineup of near-lux cars and crossovers (maybe the van too) through the Chrysler name than trying to keep both brands going. The Dodges they have already developed, like the Ram, can be sold to Nissan and rebadged.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)