Upcoming Hatches (real or concept)

pocahontas

Here's a direct link to Edmunds' First Drive of this new vehicle.

Also, join our new Hatchbacks discussion: Mercedes-Benz C230 (2002).

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pocahontas

Take a look at Edmunds' First Look of the 2002 Mini Cooper.

Here's a direct link to our Mini Cooper discussion.

Happy Motoring!

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orangelebaron

What about this one?

When you open the link, scroll down.

http://mars.post1.com/home/tks/saab.html

pocahontas

Thanks for the information and link. ;-)

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pocahontas

Join us in our new Mazda 5 door Sport discussion. Thanks!

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pocahontas

So is this a wagon or a hatchback sports sedan?

We're going to base our new IS 300 SportCross discussion on our Station Wagons Message Board, but it's possible that we'll eventually link this discussion to both the Hatchbacks and the Station Wagons Message board.

Lexus describes it as "Not A Sedan, Not A Wagon - Something In Between."

What do you think? ;-)

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pocahontas

The Ford FR200

Read about it here. What do you think? ;-)

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pocahontas

Another new hatchback that could also be thought of as a small station wagon. imho

What do you think? ;-) Find out more information about this upcoming vehicle in our new Toyota Matrix discussion. See ya there. ;-)

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greg116

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/autoshows/ny/autoshows_ny_2001_pt_convertible.xml

pocahontas

Thanks for the link to the PT Cruiser convertible. Looks really cool! ;-)

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pocahontas

This message had been re-edited for a link correction. If you're interested in discussing the upcoming 2002 Focus ZX5 5 door, please join us in this new Hatchbacks Message Board discussion: Ford Focus ZX5 (2002).

Thanks for your participation! ;-)

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pocahontas

The 2002 Honda Civic Si (re-edited)

Here's a direct link to Edmunds.com's (2001 New York Auto Show coverage) article of the 2002 Honda Civic Si. And if you're interested in discussing the 2002 Honda Civic Si, please join us in this new hatchback's discussion: Honda Civic Si (2002).

Thanks for your participation.

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pocahontas

The 2002 Acura RSX

For those interested in discussing the 2002 Acura RXS, please join us in this new discussion: Acura RSX (2002). See ya there! ;-)

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pocahontas

vehicles will probably have diesal in their fuel tanks, and spark plugs may soon be "museum pieces"... according to this article from Edmunds.com's News: Why diesel is the torque of the future. What do you think?

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qbrozen

That is frightening. Not that I have anything against diesel, but I have a serious problem with the mindset that the "future" involves still using oil as fuel (in any form). When I think of the future, I think of Hydrogen power, solar power, wind power. Yeah, of course these things have been around for a LONG time, but, just like everything else worthwhile, it is taking decades to get it out of the development lab and into consumer hands. To me, even spending time developing diesel power is a complete joke. Get with it! Fossil fuel is not going to be around for much longer. We need to center all of our concentration on alternative means of propelling outselves around this rock.

vadp

<<<Fossil fuel is not going to be around for much longer.>>>

What does it mean? 25, 50, 100, 200 years?

qbrozen

Whatever the time span is, its an exhaustible source and its WILL run out. So why spend so much time and energy figuring out better ways to use it?

vadp

What's the alternative?
The wind/solar powered cars? You must be jockeyng.
The fuel cell powered cars? The Auto makers and the suppliers alike are spending TONS of money developing the technology. It is still in the development faze and won't be available for mass production (todays 15-25K car) for at least 10-15 years.
Even the switch to the 42-volt technology is not as easy to do as everybody thought just a couple of years ago and must be done in stages over a period of time.

qbrozen

That's exactly what you're supposed to think. Reality is that very capable alternative fuel powered cars have been around for DECADES. The only reason they haven't made it to market is due to the influence of the oil companies. For instance, Hydrogen power has been around and been used in concept vehicles since the 70s. It can produce comparable power to gasoline and requires minor modification to the vehicle. There are very capable electric cars out there. They are currently available in California in limited numbers.

But, for the sake of argument, lets say that your estimate of 10-15 years is what is needed. Well, the article in question here points a finger towards diesel as being "the wave of the future" and used in most vehicles "in 10 years." And that is exactly my point. In 10 years, we should be beyond using fossil fuels.

Diesel isn't the future, its the past.

vadp

<<<There are very capable electric cars out there. They are currently available
in California in limited numbers.>>>
Limited numbers. Exactly. Demand is practically non-existent.

<<< For instance, Hydrogen power has been around and been used in concept vehicles since the 70s>>>
Well. Turbines were used in concept vehicles too.
How about nuclear powered planes?
The basic concepts were out there for decades.
The problem is how to make them economically feasible.

snaphook

Whenever it happens, the transition from internal combustion engines to cars powered by fuel cells should be very interesting. Off topic but, what are our airplanes going to run on?

bill_1

Ok, There are a cpouple ideas running around here that I think we need to clear up.

1. Everyone knows that Diesel and Gasoline (or Petrol) will run out eventually, the problem is that at the moment they are far and away the most practical fuel for cars and will remain so for at least another decade or so. Perhaps the best route would be to use diesels as the basis of hybrid vehicles.. I could imagine a VW Golf using VWs 1.2 liter Diesel with electric motors for assistance getting 60-70 MPG in the near future if VW wanted to make the commitment to producing it (I.e. it believed there was a large enough market to justify it).

2. Most alternative fuel vehicles are not yet practical. Electric vehicles exhist, but their short range and long recharging time make them impractical as anything other commuter vehicles (assuming your commute is say less than 50 miles one way). Hydrogen could be used as could natural gas but the infrastructure would have to be put in place to make it as easy to purchase as gasoline or Diesel. Finally of course, these alternative fuels remain essentially fossil fuel based. Hydrogen and electricity have to be produced and their production requires energery that is most commonly produced in coal, gas or oil fired generation plants, to that extent alternative fuel vehicles might be less efficient and more responsible for the production of greenhouse gases than conventional vehicles (They do however produce less smog).

qbrozen

Absolutely. One of the major problems with hydrogen power is the fact that (currently) it is produced by way of a surge of electricity. Where does electricity mainly come from? Oil and coal burning power plants.

But, as we all know, there are other ways. Water, Solar, and Wind powered electric plants are all over the place. Geothermal is another rarer one. But, this is my point. We should be spending our time developing all of this further rather than wasting our time trying to find new and better ways to burn fossil fuels.

A diesel hybrid getting 60-70 mpg? What's the point? The Insight gets over 60 and that's not diesel. So what would be the advantage of diesel in that case?

I don't even know what the discussion is about. We all stated that, in 10 years, we should be beyond fossil fuels in our cars. The article that started all this said that, in 10 years, we will all be running around in diesels. It seems to me that we all agree that diesel is not "the future."

pocahontas

I'm posting information about this upcoming 5-door wagon on this message board, as well on as the Station Wagons Message Board. As some reviewers say, it could also pass for a hatchback. It certainly falls into that cross over category. imo

Some of you might find it interesting to know that it will be the "lowest priced station wagon in the world." Here's the complete story from, Edmunds' coverage of the 2001 North American Auto Show: 2002 Kia Rio Wagon.

Also, join us in our new 2002 Kia Rio Wagon discussion on the Station Wagons Message Board. Thanks for your participation. ;-)

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bill_1

Is that all the alternate ways of generating the electricty necessary for alternative fuels (either hydrogen or electricity directly) is that none of the alternatives are completely satisfactory either. Hydro-electric may keep the air clean and be renewable, but takes a terrible toll on the life in rivers where it is set up, Solar is extremely inefficient in terms of space usage and is probably not practical at the current time. Wind Turbines offer the best alternative but they are also the least reliable... This would not necessarily be a problem at a self powered hydrogen production plant, but it would be if Wind was to replace Gas as the primary energy source in this country.

Now as to the idea diesel hybrids. The difference between the car I propose and the Hond Insight is that the Insight is a 2 person car that has made many compromises in terms of cargo and handling to achieve its high efficiency levels. Using a high efficiency diesel in a hybrid would allow similar levels of efficiency but without the other compromises. I mean if you had to choose between a VW Golf or Jetta that got 60 MPG as your only vehicle or a Honda Insight, which would you choose? Using the 1.2 Liter Diesel has allowed VW to break 70 MPG without any hybrid technology on their Lupo.

And for the record, I stated that it would be a decade or so before one of the alternative fuels became as practical as gasoline and diesel are, and it could take longer.

qbrozen

You: "And for the record, I stated that it would be a decade or so before one of the alternative fuels became as practical as gasoline and diesel are, and it could take longer."

Me: "We all stated that, in 10 years, we should be beyond fossil fuels in our cars."

Um... maybe I'm being thick, but I really think we're on the same page here. So, what's the argument?

Hey, I've got absolutely not problem with a diesel hybrid NOW. But it is current technology. It is here.

I'll just state my simple point ONE MORE TIME and STRESS that I am not disagreeing with ANYONE (except the person that wrote that article) because I sincerely think that, regardless of the desire of others to create disagreement where there is none, we are all saying essentially the same thing. To say that diesel power is our future a decade from now is pretty silly. It is technology that is available and being used right now, so if we can't advance past it in 10 years, I would consider that pretty sad.

I'm done. No more.

bill_1

You think that in 10 years we should be beyond fossil fuels in our cars I said it would be a minimum of 10 years before there are viable alternatives. In other words what you said implied (intentionally or not) that essentially all new cars should be powered by alternative fuel sources in 10 years I am saying it will be at least 10 years and perhaps longer before it even beomes practical to begin such a transition and that depends on scientists working out kinks in several critical technologies; let us remember that scientists have been trying to work the kinks out of Nuclear Fusion for 50 years now. Given that there is plenty of reason to believe that in 10 years 99% of the cars sold in this country will still be essentially dependent on the Internal Combustion engine and the other 1% will be of limited utility like Electric Vehicles are today. I am willing to bet that we wil need a minimum of 20 years before any alternative fuel stands a real chance of replacing Gasoline and Diesel as the power source for cars.

qbrozen

Ah, you're looking at 20 years.

Then we definitely disagree.

On another note, here is some good info.

http://www.ecoworld.com/Articles/Hydrogen_fuel_cars_EW.htm

bill_1

Its just that I don't really see any alternatives gaining a significant share of the market in the near term. Diesel at least has the virtue of still having alot of efficiency worked into the design and also having an existing distribution system developed. I think in 10 years it is very likely that Hybrids of either diesel or gasoline engines will probably be the dominant form of automobile sold (though not driven, after all there will be quite a few older cars still on the road).

qbrozen

All of my posts say we "should" be beyond fossil fuel. Not that we "will".

I can always hope. But, you're right, reality is that we won't be. Not from a lack of technology, but from a lack of cooperation and desire from all the money players involved.

pocahontas

Perhaps so. This 2001 VW New Beetle may someday run on leftover deep-fryer grease.

Biodeisal: Make Mine Extra Crispy, by By Scott Memmer. What do you think? ;-)

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bill_1

It kind of annoys me that Edmunds is perpetuating the stereotype that diesel engines are noisey and lack power. For goodness sake in their own long term review of the Beetle TDI, they praised the car for how peppy and powerful the engine was. In fact I think perception is 99% of the problem that Diesels have in this country. Yes some Americans like power but the seemingly perpetual place that cars like the Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla and Ford Focus (replacing the Escort) have near the top of the sales charts also says shows that many Americans buy cars for reasons other than the 0-60 times (heck even the popularity of SUVs show that).

I would like to see America at least start using Biodiesel blends just like Europe as well as making the petroleum based diesel much cleaner.

pocahontas

"slotted to make a return to dealer showrooms come model-year 2003." Here's the full story Edmunds' First Look: 2003 Nissan Z.

For more information, join us in this new discussion: Nissan Z (2003) What do you think?

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pocahontas

According to this article, Suzuki plans to release a production car based on the SX in early 2002.

Thanks for your comments. ;-)

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perrito

What's going on here? The new SX looks uncannily like a Pontiac Vibe, or a Toyota Matrix? Is it a shared platform, or did one or the other steal it from someone else?


perrito

p.s. Stop arguing over fossilfuel/altfuels... this is about new hatchbacks. We're stuck with gas (and yes, diesel) for at least 10 years.... *sigh*....

qbrozen

As far as I'm concerned, Suzuki should stick to motorcycles only!

uh... perrito, if you're paying attention, you'll notice that fossil/alt discussion stopped about 2 MONTHS AGO.

pocahontas

From Edmunds.com's Concept Car Spotlight, here the complete article: Infiniti FX45, by Erin Riches. What do you think? ;-)

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pocahontas

here are some pics of the Toyota RSC concept:





Here's a direct link to the full story: Toyota RSC, by Warren Clarke. Please return here to post your comments. Thanks! ;-)

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civic_cx_92

How about them rear quarter blind spots large enough to hide Ford Excursions?
I could see the owner crying over chipped paint off the lower section already.
The design is interesting but it needs 'real world' finishing... incomplete work.

qbrozen

I've loved this design since I first saw it. Reminds me of something out of the Carmageddon video game. But, you're right, civiccx, it would not do well in the real world.

revka

"Although the sedan destined for our shores is quite attractive, it's the hatch that really caught our attention." Read the full story from Edmunds' review section.



Thanks for your comments. ;-)

Revka
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csandste

Easily the best looking of the three. Bring it on!

qbrozen

Love it!

revka

"The Honda Integra Type-R will probably go on sale in America for the 2003 model year." Here's the full story from Edmunds' coverage of the Toyko Motor show: 2003 Honda Integra Type-R. Let us know what you think. Thanks for your comments. ;-)

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m3fan

Many rumors have it that this baby is coming to North America!!!

To whom at Audi AG do I send the bottle of Blue Label?

This site claims it's coming in 2004:

http://www.lltek.com/rumusespec.htm#A3

There were many speculations at what this new A3 will look like. Many photoshoped pictures were based on the Steppenwolf concept. However, I hope the design comes closer to a pic posted at http://www.autoexpress.co.uk Do a search for "new A3" and you'll see the beauty I'm talking about.

Make mine Audi S3 with the new 3.2L V6, 250hp, 6-speed manual. Thank you!

In the meantime check out this pic:

http://www.hrsprings.com/site/gallery/wallpaper/a3640.jpg

cheers

revka

The 2002 Suzuki Aerio will be available in showrooms starting in March. Read the full story here: here. And let us know what you think. Post your messages here or in our new Suzuki Aerio Hatchback discussion. Thanks!

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squiredogs

If you added 4 doors and a liftglass, I'd buy now and wait 10 months! As is I'd still take it straight up. I'm jonesing for a modern day AMC Eagle - 4WD, big wheels, fat tires, and some fold flat seats! Anyone have any glimmer of hope from the inside?

Dan

revka

as well as on the Station Wagons board, since I thought this vehicle might appeal to participants on both boards. From Edmunds' Coverage of the 2002 LA Auto Show: Ford Fusion, by Liz Kim.



What do you think? Also, come share your thoughts with us in the new Ford Fusion discussion on the Station Wagons board. Thanks for your participation.

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seminole_kev

but that Fusion is more of a regular hatchback than anything else. When it comes out, I might have to take a look at it. Ford should bring over the new Fiesta that the Fusion is based on while they're at it.

revka

a other couple discussions, from the Station Wagons board, that you may find interesting:

- Sports Wagons - The wave of the future?

- Upcoming Station Wagons & Crossovers

Come check them out. Happy motoring. ;-)

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boomn29

Should we care about this car at all? The RSX never really gets talked about. It's styling was too bland, and the power average to others. The shifter was said to be very smooth.

So, does a little sporty touch and 20 more hp make us care?