Toyota Matrix

mpg5

BTW, which are you driving, XR or XRS? if XRS, do you find the power adequate? i think i'm going to buy one as the XRS can be had (if you find a 2003) for under invoice. i'm looking for silver with all options except NAV.

stillageek

I have the XRS six speed and find the torque, while low, isn't enough of a negative to mark it off the list. The supercharger is for the XR only! This is a negative as the XR (for 2003 anyway) came with drum brakes only. With the extra power I would like disc below me. I haven't had any rattles (mfg date 10/02 delivered 11/02) from the dash or anywhere else for that matter.

nippononly

an XR, and power is just OK, but fuel economy is outstanding, and that is a big plus for me - I do a lot of driving.

If anyone is concerned about braking with the S/C upgrade, TRD also has a "large brake kit" (4-wheel) that you can sub in for all Matrix, XR and XRS. The only thing I don't know is whether you have to have the 17" rims in order for the discs to fit. There is a sway bar kit available too.

The S/C applied to the base engine will definitely provide more low-end torque than the optional engine does. But that is a double-edged sword if you are someone who likes to keep the engine screaming! :-)

mpg5

i like to throw a car into turns (offramps etc..) and cruise at 75-80 mph. love to row through the gears as well. seems like this will be a very fun car to rev and run through gears. how smooth at 80mph on highway and is suspension set up for tossing the car into corners (i'm getting the 17's as option or aftermarket if/when i buy). how do you like the stereo? and if you have sunroof, how noisy is it when open? thanks.

nippononly

is super-quiet when open, even at freeway speeds.

This car is fun to drive fast through corners, but you will notice the body roll. That is doubtless why they came up with an aftermarket sway bar kit. OTOH, it is hard to shake loose - excellent grip. And I have the 16s...with the 17s, the ride gets firmer, and I think they have wider tires too.

The flip side is, it is pretty smooth on the highway at high speeds, although bad pavement or concrete joints will have you bucking and thrumming some.

hurler4

I know that Toyota TRD has a strut tower brace a well as the anti-sway bars. Will this also help lessen body roll? What's the difference in what the brace does compared to the anti-sway bars?

mpg5

i appreciate all of the feedback. will keep you posted on my search for my new XRS.

nippononly

the sway bars eliminate body roll, but in doing so they cause more torsion to the body of the car (due to laws of physics - the forces causing that body roll have to go someplace). The strut tower brace for under the hood is partly to compensate for this - it ties together two points that would otherwise be getting twisted away from each other.

This is one car that could definitely benefit from a sway bar kit - I have been thinking of getting them, but only if I go whole-hog and get the S/C as well...and of course the brake kit. No way am I going to all that trouble and keeping the rear drums!

stillageek

I have a strut tower brace (non TRD) on my XRS and could tell an immediate difference on a freeway cloverleaf off-ramp. When the sign says 30 I can comfortably take it as 45-50 without my spouse getting scared. I mgiht have been able to take it at the same speed before, but I feel more at ease now. The body doesn't shift much if at all. I find it hard to see any body roll now. Installation a breeze. I am computer geek, not a car guy and it took about 25 minutes with at least 10 minutes of me trying to find the right size tool.

hurler4

...where did you get the brace? I'm thinking of getting the TRD one, since it's not too expensive. Does the brace block anything like filters, hoses, etc.? It's just a matter of tightening bolts or screws to install it? Did you also get the anti-sway bars?

nippononly

the brace, sway bars will require professional installation...but "geek" really owes it to himself to get 'em if he already has the brace - talk about good, better, best!

stillageek

I got my strut tower brace on ebay for $45, true the TRD is around $120 and is prettier and powder coated. It's hard for me to spend money on upgrades on my car because I only drive it on weekends and trips. I have had it 8 months and have 5500 miles on it. On upgrade I love are some appliques I got for the tail lamps and the fog lights. I bought them on www.importequipment.com. The tail lamps stickers take the pink out of the turn signals. They are a smoked color, it looks a lot better trust me. The fog light stickers are yellow making the fogs look much like the IS300. They are very high quality and look OEM.

hurler4

.....I couldn't find the stickers on that website. I'd love to get them, as I think the pink tailight section doesn't look so great (especially on a black Matrix like the one I ordered).

Also, does the brace limit access to the spark plugs, oil filler cap, or anything else important?

stillageek

The brace goes direct from tower to tower, it doesn't block anything. The stickers are called Black-Out or Red-Out. If you click on Toyota, then Matrix then decals and scroll way down you will find them. The guy is honest, ordered twice with not problems.

hurler4

...which one of the 4 versions of the tail light sticker did you get? I saw the red-out (with and without hole cut out) and the black-out (with and without hole cut out).

Tough to tell which might look best for a black Matrix...

I really like the fog light stickers!!

herzogtum71

Had the sensor relay replaced this morning per service bulletin EL007-02. Two things of note:

(1) Toyota has been installing the new relay at the factory for 10 months or more. I took possession of our 4WD matrix in late August, and my serial number was barely within the range specified by the service bulletin. If you took possession of a matrix later than August, your vehicle likely already has the updated relay. Your service department can check your serial number and tell you which relay you have.

(2) The service bulletin does not say that replacing the relay will address the problem many of us have had, particularly on bright sunny days, with the continual alternating of running lights and headlights. The bulletin instead says something about operation at dusk and dawn (I can't remember the exact wording), and the technician told me this morning the new relay was supposed to prevent draining something in the system.

My copy of the work order in fact states: "Replaced relay, will not change operation of system. It is operating as designed." But we had some breaks of sun this morning, and I think the new relay has in fact helped alleviate the problem. If we ever have another totally sunny day in Massachusetts, I'll provide an update in this forum. Then I'll know for sure.

hurler4

...since we're never going to have another sunny day in Massachusetts ever again! ;-D

I heard that Pontiac isn't doing this with the Vibe. If true, I wonder why? I've heard it has been an incredible headache for some people. I'm glad they fixed it on the Matrix...

nippononly

bear in mind that the wording that appears on the final invoice is just whatever the service advisor feels like putting in there...when I had this TSB performed, my invoice said nothing of the kind.

I took delivery of my Matrix on 8/29 last year. I must have got one of the very last ones that had this problem! It had only been on the lot for one day. And BTW, the new relay fixed the problem about 99%. It still gets slightly "confused" right at dusk, and might flip the lights on and off a few times until darkness falls. I just turn them on with the switch on the stalk, so that they just stay on.

There was a separate problem related to draining the battery that only a few cars had: when it was cold out, the sensor would turn on the lights even if the car was parked at night, so that people would come out in the morning to find a dead battery. However, the "flipping on and off" problem was much more widespread.

It is a real shame that Pontiac does not provide this level of support to its Vibe owners, since it would be as simple as taking a few of the updated relays they are installing now anyway at NUMMI, and sending them to dealers to install on the older cars as they come in for service.

montanafan

Why don't you help out the Pontiac owners. Pop the hood, open up the relay center and get the part number off the relay and post so others can see if theirs is the updated or try to get one.

herzogtum71

was provided in an earlier posting by nippononly: 8281002033.

I know it was my skeptical technician who put the wording on the "invoice" (the work was free), but I did see the service bulletin from Toyota and can confirm that it doesn't claim to fix the problem as we have described it.

I don't mind turning the headlights on manually at dawn or dusk, but now I should at least be able to keep the instrument panel at a dimmer setting for night driving and not have to worry about things suddenly going dark when the headlights automatically turn on during the day. And the guy behind me won't think I'm riding the brake!

nippononly

you got it! Those are the two biggest advantages to getting the fix. Personally, I have never thought of the rheostat for the dash lights as one of the hardier items inside a car, and I envisioned it quitting for good after about a year if I had to turn it down every night, then up every day, to compensate for the unintended flashing.

capitano

I just noticed that the XRS is not available in my region for 2004 models. There is a 2003 left at a dealer 100 miles away, but it won't be there when I enter the market for real in September.

I might be moving to Florida and magically, the XRS will be available there.

How much longer are they going to hang on to this regional difference crap?

nippononly

distributors of Toyota vehicles in the U.S.: Gulf States, Southeast, and TMUSA for the rest of the country.

Each one can order as many of each model as it would like I imagine...

capitano

What region is Virginia?

I get no option to build my own XRS when I use a local zip code. I use a Miami zip code and voila the XRS is an option. Joy.

nippononly

but you can go to their corporate website and see which states are covered by which distributorship...but I would think Virginia would be under TMUSA, I could be wrong.

capitano

The build website says something about "Central Atlantic." The website design is completely different between the regions.

I guess the next question is whether dealers from different regions do dealer trades with each other.

Edmund's shows docs and fees to be lower in Virginia contributing to an overall lower TCO over 5 years for the car. But if I can't get the right car....

footie

I think that Central Atlantic starts in Virginia.

Privately-held, Southeast Toyota, SET, is headquartered in Florida and is the largest franchised Toyota distributor in the world. They are a source of Toyota vehicles with such modern, high profit, "port installed" options as 'Toyo Guard' fabric protection and paint sealants. They also offered 'two toned' paint jobs you'll never see in a Toyota brochure or on the national website. They cover Alabama, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina.

Gulf States Toyota covers Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, Arkansas and Oklahoma. It is also privately held. They do the port and dealer installed practice too.

It's my take that Toyota pricing for new vehicles in both of these areas is usually higher than in other 10 regions that have Toyota Sales as the distributor.

capitano

Interesting. And they do this stuff to so many vehicles that you can't find one that is untainted, right?

Oddly enough, Edmund's shows TMV for a Matrix XRS is $130 cheaper in Miami than here in Richmond. Not that you can actually get an XRS here in Richmond...
But I guess that doesn't included the sales tax which is 3x higher in Miami (for cars).

Dang. XRS is not available in Massachusetts either.

bluestar1

ripp-offs if I ever saw one. Can't believe this can be allowed to go on so blatantly without customer revolt. Where is the conscience ? Can't some people complain ? Report to the AG of FL or Texas, or someone with authority to effect change ? Granted these regions are privately-held, but heck, why the blatant ripp-offs like the PIO's they pile on top of the ridiculous option trims Toyota puts out ? Just ridiculous... Cannot happen in Cali. We'll be in the courts faster than anyone can say Hi

johnclineii

For what?

Toyota sold the rights to sell cars in those regions years and years ago. It has been able to buy back the other distributorships, but not these two.

Businesses have the freedom to sell what they want at the prices they choose. There is no constitutional right to buy a particular car with a particular configuration at a particular price.

I doubt Toyota wants these two distributorships doing the things they do any more than you apparently do. I can assure that if the distributorships were doing illegal things, Toyota would have gotten rid of them long ago.

Toyota, to compete with other car manufacturers, would rather not have distributors, surely. But when it was in in its infancy of selling cars in the US, these two businesses, among others, fronted their OWN money and risked all to sell an unknown Toyopet or two. They did so under a contract. The contract is between Toyota and the distributors. Only the parties to that contract can end the contract, under the terms as they now exist.

So, for now, if you live in those regions and want to buy a Matrix, you deal with a dealer who must deal with that distributor, or you go outside the area to buy your Matrix.

Them's the beans!

footie

Boch has two 03 XRS's in stock if their inventory is accurate (which isn't always the case). One is listed as 6 spd one as auto. Both black/gray.

I couldn't tell what was at Chambers, Watertown, Wellesley or Ira. Their online inventories are not well - documented and poorly updated. Their intention apparently, is to get you to call, not inform the consumer.

capitano

The 03 model appears to have been available everywhere. There were a few in Virginia. One dealer inventory says they still have one. Since the 04s are already out, I figure my chances of finding an 03 will be slim to none come September.

Hell, I don't even know if I want the car. I want to test drive one to see if I like it. I am also interested in testing an XR 5 speed for comparison to see which I prefer.

montanafan

If you want to test drive a XRS and don't mind a little work, you might try this. GM currently is pushing an extended test drive program, the 24hr test drive. Almost all dealers have to put a Vibe on. You could try Pontiac dealers near you to see if anyone has a Vibe GT available for the program. Would give you time to decide if the XRS is for you. From the Pontiac site you can get the details and then use GM buypower to see which dealers have GTs in stock then call just them to see if they are on the program. Maybe even a regular test drive will do. Good luck.

capitano

I had been thinking about trying the Vibe. But I don't want to buy a Vibe and I don't want to waste some salesguy's time when he has no shot of selling me the car. If I get desperate enough though...

bluestar1

you sound like you work for either of these "distributors", eh ?

I am not questioning their right to charge whatever, what I question is the monopoly they have to do it. This is unfair business practice, if I ever saw one. A car buyer is really at the mercy of these distributors unless they choose to go outside these regions to purchase their car. Why should they have to go through these hoops ? Does every buyer need their windshields etched ? Does everyone need these PIO's at the ridiculous prices they are charged ? And what options do these consumers have if they want to buy Toyota ??? Go outside the region !!!

Man, this is a free country and businesses have to abide by some ethics or code of conduct. Monopolies are not tolerated (at least legally) and the SET/GST's are monopolies, if you are looking to buy a Toyota. That is unfair.

I still claim that such business setup cannot be tolerated here in Cali. We are too savvy consumers to be held at the throat by some "distributors" ! If anything, CHOICE is the driving key for innovation. Californian's have choices galore when buying a Toyota. We can even factory order. Good luck ordering if you live in the SET/GST regions ! How fair is that ????

johnclineii

a. I do not work for, with and never have worked for or with any distributor or dealer of any kind.

b. Distinguish dealer from distributor. Both have exclusive territories. I seem to remember seeing car dealers in California, last time I was there! If you want a new Matrix, you also must buy it from a dealer!

c. Toyotas, to my knowledge, do not come as factory orders. Dealer trades, yes. Factory orders? No.

bluestar1

I know the difference b/w dealer and distributor. But in the GST/SET regions, they are confined to what these distributors provide to the dealerships. Right ?

>c. Toyotas, to my knowledge, do not come as factory orders. Dealer trades, yes. Factory orders? No.

Surprised you don't know about factory ordering. You can factory order your Toyota to your specifications. It may take awhile, but you get it as ordered. Can you do this with the SET/GST states ?

All I am saying is that there is no reason why some states should be held ransom to some regional distributors. Do away with "middlemen" and let each dealer order their cars from the factory, and deliver what their market demands to their customers. Is that too much to ask ?

footie

I don't think you can factory 'order' a specific configuration of any Toyota vehicle here in New England (or anywhere else either). You can put in an order and wait until Toyota decides to build it, but there are no guarantees they will.

In fact, you can't even 'order' standard configurations that aren't shipped to your region. My favorite Toyota "Duh?" is that you can't buy or order a Matrix XR with ABS here in NE unless it's 4WD.

In particular you can't buy or order a Matrix XR 5 speed with ABS in a part of the country where virtually every driver knows ABS makes a heck of a difference in our mixed slippery, icy, snowy winter roads.

I think it's one of the main reasons the Matrix has been a relative flop here in New England (besides being a rattler with some odd dashboard lighting and somewhat chintzy materials).

But it's a very competitive market. Most Matrix's here can be had at invoice or less depending on the Toyota support. Boch routinely offers standard 'bare bones' Matrix w/Automatic for $13500. And if the ABS problem doesn't bug you, that's pretty good basic transport for the money.

But to John's point. It's the way the system works. If you want a Matrix of a particular configuration, go find it. You can get XR 5 speed ABS matrix in Maryland or St. Louis for example. I haven't shopped around for an XRS and wouldn't after test driving one. That's one peaky engine.

Despite the faulty and customer rip-off oriented distribution system Toyota has in GST and SET, you CAN shop elsewhere.

Thousands of people buy cars off ebay every day and have them shipped to their front door just like polo's from Lands End and LL Bean.

If you bought a Matirx this way, "sight unseen", given Toyota's capacity to build what they design, you'd get what you would expect.

You could roll into to the local dealership and they probably wouldn't care squat that you got it somewhere else. Toyota pays the warranty bills wherever you take your car.

Good luck shopping.

dvd9

WHY?? ABS is not std equipment on Matrix. ABS is std equipment on cheaper Scion Xa and Xb.

footie

I think Toyota sets themselves up for litigation by intentionally restricting availability of this safety oriented option here in New England.

hudrahead

with your whinning, poor me, why can't they build a car just for me, why can't they do this or that attitude if I was a dealer I'D toss you out on your ear from MY showroom. Go buy a VIBE and you can get wahtever you want.

HUD :(

maxx4me

agreed. By going to a Toyota dealer, you get what you deserve. Toyota dealers are the most arrogant I have ever dealt with. Thank goodness I discovered a buying service that now keeps me from wanting to choke them. While Toyotas are great cars (which is why I own the Vibe), their dealers make me yearn for when dealers are a thing of the past. Trust me, that day is coming very soon. Oh, and earlier posts about getting better information from a dealer......get real!!! I know more about cars than dealers do AND I DON'T KNOW JACK!! I'd rather ask well read people like my Edmunds buddies than speak to a snake with a forked tongue!

herzogtum71

It's too close to the solstice and the sun too high in the sky for me to be to duplicate the problem of the sidepost casting a shadow in mid-day over the headlight sensor. But yesterday I (a)stopped under a tree for a couple of minutes and (b) held my hand in the corner of the windshield to create a sidepost-like shadow. In neither instance did the headlights turn on automatically. Also, after driving at dusk last night for a half mile or so, the headlights did turn on automatically. I drove it for a while after that, and the headlights did not turn off automatically before I decided to turn the headlight switch on manually. So I believe the new relay has helped greatly.

herzogtum71

Some are better than others. I have bought 2 cars in the last 8 years in Acton, Massachusetts, and found them to be pleasant and straightforward to deal with. Before moving here I had looked at Toyotas in 1986 in Indiana (Bloomington, Evansville, Indianapolis)and ended up buying a Chevy Nova (aka California Corolla) because none of the Toyota dealers would budge on price. In 1987 the Toyota dealer in Fort Collins, CO, lied to us and said that the Corolla hatchback was not being built any longer, something that a dealer in Denver then told me wasn't true. But the dealer in Denver didn't want to budge on price, so I ended up with a Renault station wagon. Then again in 1988 the Fort Collins dealer refused to offer anything for the 1-year-old Renault in trade in, so we ended up with a Nissan Sentra AWD wagon that we drove for 13 years. In Massachusetts I also talked with 2 other Toyota dealers before buying the cars in Acton, but the experience was not pleasant and in one case the salesman told me I could not test-drive a car because my wife wasn't with me and because we didn't yet know which of our current cars we wanted to trade. He was extremely rude and arrogant. So what does that compute to? One Toyota dealer out of eight that I have dealt with directly has earned my business -- twice.

capitano

That is bad. I had figured the reason the import dealers lose in the ratings was because of the lack of incentives on the their cars. They couldn't give the same appearance of savings as a domestic dealer.

I went to three Toyota dealers last year to see if I could test drive either a Matrix XR 5-speed or an XRS. Only at one dealer did I have any interaction with a salesman. He seemed nice enough. Offered to dealer swap to get an XRS from a dealer 150 miles away. I got a call a day or two later asking how my experience was. Friday I got a "pre-approved" loan thing from them.

nippononly

just like all dealers vary a lot in quality. What a surprise!

My local dealer will toss you the keys to anything on the lot if you want to drive it, then ask "will you be gone longer than half an hour?"...

They are generally knowledgeable on Toyota models too, although I always know more than them about specific models I am interested in. They will always say they are not sure if they are not sure.

Other dealers I have dealt with in the wider region have been just as arrogant, ignorant, and occasionally rude as has been described above, but the two I frequent for parts service and occasionally purchases are as I have described here.

Footnote: ABS optional on most Chevys and Pontiacs this year too...living in mild-weather California, I feel ABS is overrated, but I can see where people in other parts of the country might find it indispensable.

oac3

There are dedicated forums for that here on edmunds.

ALL auto dealerships have bad apples. If you've ever bought more than 1 car, you would have noticed I buy online to save myself the hassle of dealerships. It's worked, so far. But that is just me.

Now let's just quit this whinning (hudrahead said it best) and talk about the Matrix/Vibe issues, if any.

nippononly

anyone with a Matrix/Vibe have a problem with the inside rear-view mirror, in that over most types of pavement it wobbles a lot? I asked at the dealer and they said it was as tight as could be at the one screw that is adjustable. The next option is to just replace it. Just wondering if everyone's mirror is just wobbly and this is the way mirrors are these days, or if it is just mine.

oac3

wobbly at all. Solid as a rock. Never needed adjusting each time. I have never noticed anything wobly in my Trix, yet (knock on wood)... No rattles, squeaks or buzz.... driving it can be addictive tho' if you consider that an "issue"

herzogtum71

we have accidently left the map lights on overnight, but the mirror doesn't wobble at all