Towing with 6cyl

smarx

How much can I comfortably tow with my 5sp 6cyl (190 hp) Toyota T-100 4x4. I am debating about some of the heavier hybrid travel trailers. I will occasionally travel in the mountains and don’t want to be too underpowered. options are from 2300lbs dry weight to 3300lbs dry and 17-21 feet.

larryn2

the best thing you can do is to read owners manual under towing a trailer. it will give you all the info you need no manual see dealer. have fun camping !!!! larry

tundradude

I tow around 5000 with my Tundra with the V6. It tows and brakes great. Hills do slow me down with that weight though. For example if I am going 60, it will slow me down to 40. If you were in strict climbing, I believe that staying under 3600 would not give you major loss of speed problems.

Towing for yours is 4900, I believe. My limit is 5250.

chevytruck_fan

unfortunately you don't have a I6. V6's aren't really meant to tow, they don't create any where near the torque of the V8's unlike the I6's used to. (like the new GM I-6 does). If you plan on keeping this truck a long time I would not tow too much with it. They don't have the bearings that I6's and V8's have.

What I would do would be buy a 80's-early 90's GM, Ford or Dodge and just use it for towing, get the biggest V8 in it. You can beat this to death and not feel bad about it, and since its not your daily driver gas won't matter that much. Then you can keep you T100 for daily driver and around the house type loads (dump).

ebbgreatdane

2300 - 3300 lbs.... Chevy has a point in that V6's weren't the best designed engines in the world for hi powered towing. In fact I would say that with the Toy's V6 in the Tacoma you might be ok (lighter vehicle weight Vs. the T-100).

You might try some test towing via a friend with a boat or U-Haul mixing up different weights. If you get to 1 ton and your T-100 starts complaining about it (or not) you will have your answer. Or you could try working your way down from 2.5 tons but I'm not sure if I believe the Toyota folks. Better to start small and think big.

Just some back porch philosophy.

John

tundradude

Either a T-100 or a Tundra would be better than a Tacoma in only one sense and that is wheelbase. Considering all have the same V6.

bwh

Do you have any clue as to what you are talking about? V6s don't have the bearings that an I6 or V8 have???? Are you familiar with the GM 4.3L V6? It is a small block V8 with two cylinders chopped off. It has EXACTLY the same bearings as a V8. While an I6 is generally a better torque producer than a V6, the engine in your Toyota (like all Toyotas) is extremely durable. Now, will a camper slow you down in the mountains? Yes it will. In the weight class you are considering the wind resistance will be a much larger factor. Just remember, when you are pulling the trailer you are on your way to have some fun, just take it easy, enjoy the scenery. I bet your T100 will work just fine. I do like the suggestion about borrowing a boat or something to pull as a test. That is the only way to know if you will be satisfied. We all have different thresholds for power.

chevytruck_fan

I wasn't talking about the 4.3 really, I was talking about the toyota sixes, which definantly don't have the bearings.

bwh

What bearings are you reffering to? I don't know if you are aware of this but ALL automotive bearings are basically the same. What about Toyotas do you find inferior? Give it up pal, bearings have absolutely nothing to do with it.

modvptnl

"I6 v V6". "Don't have the "bearings"!!! WTF is everyone talking about?????

People, it's bore and stroke and rod ratio and cam timing and a whole lot of other stuff that gives a motor its powerband. It could care less what config its pistons are in.

Example: Ford 300 I6= long stroke torque monster(for its modest size) BMW I6=high RPM screamer. GMC V6 of the late 60's, early 70's(305??)...absolute torque machine. DOHC V6's......well I hope you guys get the idea!! LOL!!!

mdecamps

The manufacturer's towing capacities are underrated. I towed 4,000 lbs from Indiana to New York City with a 1998 S-10 4-cylinder (that's right, 4). I had a five speed that did wonderfully. The truck barely grunted in the Allegheny Mountains. I recommend a manual transmission, but if you get an automatic, make sure you get a cooler for it. I averaged 65-70 mph on my trip. I never slowed to slower than 45 on the steepest mountain grades. Just make sure you have the bumper for what you are towing. I also recommend synthetic lubricants in the engine, transmission, and diffrential.

akjbmw

OK.
4 Cylinders. 1976cc with one barrel carb rated at 113 hp.
3.64 rear end. P175r75/13 tires.
4 speed trans.
Woodbridge, New Jersey to Santa Barbara, CA.
Tow vehicle weight about 2600 and the towed vehicle weighed about 2700 pounds plus miscellaneous luggage and personal stuff in both vehicles.
Acceleration and climbing was about the same as the big rig trucks I shared the highway with. A little patience was a really good thing.
The key to it all with the smaller engines, is know the rpm power band. This engine was nice and wide. I think it was about 2.5K to 4.5K. (yeah, a 2door BMW 2002 towing a 4 door BMW 1800) Got lots of really strange looks from other folks on the road. ;-)

chevytruck_fan

what in the heck is 1976 cc's?

obyone

cubic centimeters

eric2001

just a measily 24cc less than 2 full liters, or a large plastic soda bottle in layman's terms...

ebbgreatdane

but he is correct that you will often see more torque (twist) coming off of a I6 rather than a V6. To some degree, and depending on the engines, an I6 will out pull a V8 since the torque is available throughout its power curve VS. a V8 whose torque is available in most cases at it's peak RPM rating for torque.

This is not to say that a 3.0L I6 is going to out pull the new Chevy 6.0L. But take a look at the new GMC/Chevy 4.3L I6. The power rating is incredibly strong for a 6 cylinder and rivals most V8's

My 2 cents.

modvptnl

Why do you think the alignment of the cylinders affects the torque???

BTW GM's new 4.2(not 4.3) I6 has DOHC and 4 valves per cylinder. Could that have anything to do with its stellar performance....Ya think???

ebbgreatdane

Sometimes my head is screwed on too tight.

Yeah, more cams and valves to put more volume in and take volume out of a cylinder always helps. ;-)

Any engine that gets away from pushrods is better off.

modvptnl

I'd still like an explanation on why people think the configuration of cylinders affects torque.

It is my humble opinion that the pistons could care less where they are in a block. It is the bore/stroke/rod ratio/cam timing etc. that affects powerband. An example would be the Supra and BMW I6's. If anyone ever called them high torque low revving motors they'd be laughed off the board. Now if you want to discuss motor balance in conjuction with cylinder placement....that's a different topic all together.

ebbgreatdane

Well, I suppose you're correct in the points you make. An I6 is better balanced engine and with the right Turbo or Super charger can be a powerful ally under the hood.

But I never said that I6's were low reving. I just said they had more torque than a standard V and/or Flat configuration motors of the same displacement, timeing and number of valves and cams. When my DOHC Integra GS-R Vtech hits 8000 RPM, there is usually no one left in front of me by the time I hit 3rd gear.

I tried doing some research on this but didn't find anything really conclusive but here's what I came up with:

1. Inlines are better balanced engines. V's require addition components the engine must turn creating more work for the motor. Inlines also will have one cam less (or 2 cams less if we're talking a DOHC configuration) which takes quite a bit of power for the crank to turn indirectly.

2. The vertical position of an Inline puts addition downforce (the weight of the piston and piston rod) on the down stroke. V's angular design allow the pistons to make an easier upstroke. Depending on the balancing of the engine, you can increase torque with this effect in Inlines some 15% more than a v configuration. However, inversely, the V config has the "potential" to develop the up stroke faster making for a faster reving engine and the ability to develope HP quickly.

3. V's have the ability to cool themselves more quickly with the pistons devided between two different heads. Also air flow over the V can contibute to this as well.

4. A little common sense... Why don't we see V4's all over the place? Probably because engine designers (without super or turbo charging) can't acheive the right engine balance to make a practical motor that has a good blend of torque and HP. You do see a lot of Flat 4's on the road I'm assuming because they are more easily balanced in a 4 cylinder configruation, they are more compact for Euro designers, and they give a practical balance of Torque and HP.

All in all, if I put a V6 next to and I6 of the same displacement, cam number, valve number, timing etc., my brain tells me the V6 will hit 4000 RPM befor the I6 does. But the I6 would hit the same 4000 RPM in a heavier vehicle or in a vehicle of the same weight with a load behind it.

Ok... I'm out.

John

eric2001

Inertia, or spinning mass and the effects there-of. Such as a large flywheel to keep inertia, maintain speeds, but not rev up or down quickly, and the effect this plays on the torque/hp curves. A good example is a motorcycle with a tiny flywheel, the can rev almost instantly compared to most automotive engines. Just my $.02.

modvptnl

We'll just agree to disagree. The motor could care less how the cylinders are placed. It's the relationship of bore/stroke etc........ that decides the power band. the bottom line on Vs' is degree of cylinder bank X's # of cylinders. As long as the final # is divisible by 360 it is just as naturally balanced as an inline 6.

1) a push rod motor also has one cam in a V configuration.

2) The crank pin in a any engine(V or Incline or flat)NEVER gets pushed straight down, down force is equal regardless of configuration. Piston speed determines how fast something revs(as well as the before mentioned inertia) A shorter stroke will always rev quicker than a longer stroke. You do realize that at any given RPM a longer stroke motor has significantly more piston speed than a shorter stroke motor?

3) In a liquid cooled motor it's not an issue.

4) I know of no CURRENT flat fours(willing to be enlightened) Saab made V4's years ago. Almost forgot about Subaru!!!! Any others???

Motor design is usually dependent on existing tooling and money considerations. Toy uses their V6 and V8 designs in both cars and trucks. Their superb inline 6 is only available in the Lexus CAR line.(why not trucks or SUV if the torque is superior?) The Chev/Ford V6's are directly related to their old v8's. The old GMC 305 V6 and Ford 300 I6 were ONLY truck motors and performed near identical, they were long stroke small bore torque motors.

ebbgreatdane

Agree to disagree...I'll agree with that. I was going to post a reply but Edmunds tanked on it when I hit "Post" so oh well...

Maybe we need an Engine Design Discussion Post?

Cheers