High Performance Hatchbacks - Any Opinions?

mfarmer2

Please share what you know. Thanks. :-)

Mary

bill_1

Alot of people consider cars with a very sculpted look to be a fastback and not a hatchback. That being said there is currently one undisputed hatchback that aims at those shopping performance and that is the VW GTI. In the fastback category the range extends somewhat to the Toyota Celica GT-S and the Acura Integra Type-R. Mercury was suppose to bring out a souped up edition of the Cougar but killed that.

Fortunately things are looking up for those who want performance and a Hatchback. VW is going to update the GTI so that all versions get a healthy boost in HP (around 30HP both for the 1.8T (officially 20 but that is only so the Audi people don't whine) and the VR6. Ford is bringing out the Focus SVT which will scream with 170 HP and its light weight. Honda is rumored to be bringing back both the Hatchback and the Si variant of the Civic in one stroke this summer. Oh and I am not sure if you consider it a hatchback, but the Subaru Impreza Sport Wagon is available in WRX trim, good for more than 220 HP...

pocahontas

which is referred to in Edmunds.com's review as being a 2-door coupe and a hatchback. A hatchback is basically a subset of a coupe or a sedan: a 3 door coupe, or a five door sedan. I've also heard fastback, liftback, and so on so forth. Regardless of what we call it, it's still the same vehicle.... ;-)

For those interested, here's our dirct link to the BMW Z3 discussion on this message board.


Happy motoring!

Pocahontas
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pocahontas

Perhaps we can also add this one to the list! Read more information here.

What do you think? ;-)

Pocahontas
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sarahvtec

The coolest hatch back in the world has got to be the Honda Civic Type R. Introduced in Japan in 1998, the Civic Type R has remained at the TOP of its game. Pumping out an amazing 185HP from a mere 1.6L VTEC engine! Now that Honda has introduced the i-VTEC system, the 2002 Civic Type R produces 200HP from a 2Liter engine. I guess "Amazing but true" is correct. Sadly, the U.S. and Canada will NOT be seeing the Civic Type R so we can only dream of it's sheer power...

bill_1

I mean I think it is great that Honda can deliver enthusiast oriented versions of its products (The SI and the Type R) but if power is what you lust for, then why limit yourself to Honda? There are plenty of alternatives out there. Heck I bet the Type R would have cost as much as the 2002 GTI VR6 would be anyway and that car will give you tons of torque on top of the 201 HP it will deliver.

denniswade

with the RSX. It is unexciting and numbingly conservative, as is the current Prelude. As a matter of fact, the Prelude is better, because it is elegant and subtly powerful; the RSX is just dull.

They really should have hit one out of the park, considering they're following the Celica and Eclipse. What in the world is happening over there???

mikecc

Anybody know what the ford SHOgun was? It was a festiva souped up with a mid mounted sho engine with rear wheel drive and a special body kit. It was capable of 0-60 in 4.6 and a 1/4 mile in under 13. There were only 9 produced.

denniswade

Car and Driver did an article on the car, and I don't believe the numbers were that good. additionally, the car was fairly expensive, which helps explain why the idea didn't take off.

mikecc

Yeah, the price of the shogun in 1990 was about 45,000. a little steep. The times for the shogun that i read ranged from 4.6-5.3 for 0-60. so i'm not quite sure what it was exactly.

sarahvtec

Why stick with Honda, simple..I'm a Honda enthusiast! Sure, if HP was all I was interested in then a more exotic car would top my list. Unfortunately, I'm not in that financial category yet so Honda will have to do. It just upsets me that car manufactuers can produce some of the most awesome vehicles in the world but limit them to speficic markets. (Conspiracy) Why not let the most powerful country in the world have access to the most powerful cars in the world?

bill_1

My point is that the Type-R would not be any cheaper than many of its competitors like the Golf GTI Vr6 and the Impreza WRX. I mean it makes little sense to me to stick with Honda if Honda is not delivering what you want in a car when there are others that do. There is no conspiracy amongst foreign countries to deny the US certain products... rather they are trying to protect other products. Honda reasons that the Civic Type-R would be in an awkward place in the American Market; For the price of the Type-R you could well get yourself into a V-8 Mustang, WRX or a GTI. At the same time, sales of the Type-R would erode sales of the RSX.

sarahvtec

At $19-21K the Civic Type R would be cheaper than the competition. Granted, that is the going price in the UK but if American Honda can do the same there would be little problem selling it here. Also, it would give the competition a run for its money! (unlike the 2002 Si) At least give us the option of ordering one... You bring up some very good points that the Civic Type R would erode sales from the RSX and why stick with Honda if they are NOT delivering what I want. I dunno how to answer that. But I do know that if Honda doesn't get their act together soon I'm about to forsake them. My tastes in vehicles are changing. In fact, I can hear the luxury market calling my name... *scary*

starrow68

Vette! More expensive than what is being discussed but the coupe is a hatchback and base sticker of 41k is not too bad for 350hp. Also from my perspective it fit's someone 6' 3" which many I've tried don't, still looking.

only1harry

a used Integra Type-R, '97-98 (off-white only) or a '00-01 model if you like it in black or yellow (I don't). Try and test drive one and take it up to 8500 RPM. It will be one of the most memorable test drives you 've had..
The Integra Type-R will still outhandle the RSX and will remain just as fast or faster due to its lightweight. The Type-R is still one of the best performing hatchbacks out there in all categories, handling, braking & acceleration.
Also you can look at the SCCA results of the last 3-4 years in SoloII (autocross) racing National Championships. A Type-R wins every year and the top 10-20 cars are mostly Type-Rs in the G Stock class. The VW VR6s and Celica GTS's which are in the same class, are way down at the bottom. Auto-x racing is mainly a handling course but speed and braking matter a lot too. The WRX is now in the same class. The 5-6 WRX's I 've seen so far in 3 auto-x events that I participated in, did not impress me at all, nor did they anyone else. The WRX is way overated. It's heavy, it's a sedan, and it can in no way stand up to the Type-R in agility. It has tons of body roll and in stock form, will never take a G Stock championship. This is why they didn't put it in A stock where it actually belongs along with the 220hp Audi TT and the like.

diploid

Well, if you want 220hp(Acura RSX Type-R) from a 4-cylinder and Honda won't bring it over here...who else out there can offer such a powerful little engine? The only other competitor that comes close is VW. You get higher mileage with the diesel engine, but it's going to cost you.

suprchrgd

Mercedes Benz has a sweet little hatchback. It not quite as fast as the type S or a WRX but its a supercharged 4cyl with close to 200 horses. And yeah its under 30k with nice options. Only drawback is that if you haven't put down a deposit on one already... good luck getting one anytime soon.

tomjava

Performance, handling, and comfort are impressive. Performance is incredible for $23K car, 0-60 mph is only 6.1 seconds (the same as BMW 330I).

Good Luck.

pocahontas

here's a direct link to our new Mercedes-Benz C230 Vs Acura RSX discussion. Thanks for your particiption! ;-)

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pocahontas

The Wall Street Journal is wondering if the sound of a vehicle is important to automotive consumers.

What is your opinion of the sounds of the Corvette, BMW Z8, Acura CL Type S, Ford Special Harley Davidson Edition F150, Honda S2000, Ford Mustang GT, Porsche 911 - and what other vehicles have sounds that appeal?

Post your thoughts in our Talk to the Press discussion, at /direct/view/.eea386c

and/or respond to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Friday, August 17th to be considered for use in the article. Thanks! ;-)

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kartez

I read on AutoExpress (UK) about an AWD 250hp NA Golf(GTI). I hope they bring it over here.

If performance is the only consideration Acura Type R is at the top of the heap. If you add comfort to the picture VW win hands down.

socal007

How about a US delivery.....
When will they make it here ????

rockribbed

Every body is talking about hot hatchbacks but are using the Honda/Acura and VW as the bench mark, when in fact a FWD performance car is an Oxymoron. The Subaru WRX and the Audi are barely in the fold (Audi 50-50 torque split and Subie a little better with 45-55). When you try to put that much power to the ground with a FWD vehicle, weight transfer unloads the front wheels inducing wheel spin (which looks cool) and loss of steering control.

Since the AutoUnions (Audi) of the '30's there has never been a purpose built racing car with front wheel drive. (Now, I'm not talking about production cars that have fwd that are raced in sanctioned events, ie SCCA classes) The reason is that FWD is not the most efficient way to operate a high performance vehicle.

The BMW Z3 coupe (IMHO, one of the ugliest cars available, but still a candidate), the MB C230, and the Corvette are the only true high performance hatchbacks for sale in the U>S>

revka

Since this discussion has been inactive for quite some time, it's going to be closed. Let's continue this subject in our HOT HATCHBACKS discussion.

If you come across this discussion and would like to have it re-opened, please send me an email.

Revka
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