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k & n filters
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on the oil thing, for example, did you know NASCARs have special plates shielding as much of the crank as possible from the top to prevent any oil at all from dripping onto crank and robbing horsepower during operation. sounds ridiculous, i know, but its not.
it's called a windage tray, it goes between the crank and the oilpan and stops the oil from splashing onthe crank thus robbing the engine of horsepower, I have one in my 1970 dodge challenger 440 magnum ,it was a factory installed item, the motor came from a 74, highway patrol interceptor. I originally did not know what it was for until I called direct connection(mopar perfomance). as for the kn filter, I believe it helps but not as much as kn claims, but is part of an overall performance upgrade package, I've already order one for my 98 ram p/u with 360 engine. since I used kn filters in all my veh's , most noticeable in my 92 harley 1340 motor. Just another thought I am satisfied with my rams mpg and performance being american the quest for better mpg and perfomance never ends, anyone knows whether the after market hot ignitions help such as crane, accel,nology,jacobs, thanks to all my 2 cents..
cdean,
In regard to your comment about the "force it takes for each piston to move", that's what Dave is referring to when talked about the pressure delivered to the combustion chambers. But I think I hear everyone saying it's time to pack it in for this topic, and I agree. It's been fun and I think I learned a lot, but there's still a lot I feel uncomfortable about.
NOW, CAN WE LOOK UP IN THE SOLUTION MANUAL, AND BE DONE WITH IT!
CDEAN
I think that I may have the ABSOLUTE and definitive answer on the K & N air filters. I was at the Fontana track for the BGN race and picked up a K & N brochure from their booth. This is based upon the K & N 'Flow Control Air Cleaner'.
In their brochure there is a graph that is a set of horsepower curves; one with and one without. Remember, these are K & N numbers. I'm not sure where they were derived, but I would guess from a dyno comparison.
The graph is based upon a a'355 Chevy, 10.1 Compression Ratio [I think that they really mean 10:1 CR.] and a 2 barrel carb.' The graph is annotated "Base line has no air cleaner." The graph has HP on the left and RPM on the bottom. The graph starts at 250 HP and 3800 RPM.
The HP curves start in the 260 range at 3800 RPM. There is a difference between the two curves, two, maybe three, perhaps even 4 HP at times from 3800 to 5400 RPM. Then the stock, no air cleaner curve becomes uneven with a few peaks and valleys. The K & N curve is smoother up to about 6300 RPM and then it follows the stock curve.
The literature suggests a 20 HP gain. That may be a bit of marketing license, as I can only see (At identical RPMs.) a 12, maybe 14 HP gain with the K & N filter. The 20 HP gain may also be over the stock filter.
There are four points here.
1 - I've driven a vehicle with and without an air filter. I did not notice any difference.
2 - The vehicle sounded much better without the air filter.
3 - The K & N literature shows the horse power gain to really start at 5400 RPM. Below 5400 RPM, the gain is difficult to see on the graph.
4 - The K & N filter gains horse power over a NO FILTER configuration. (However see point #1.)
My conclusion is that the K & N filter does improve horse power at high air flows and high RPM. Unfortunately, not many of us drive our vehicles under these conditions.
Rich
I have been using K&N and other high flow air filters on off road four stroke motorcycles for years but only with jetting and exhaust changes as well. On a four stroke motorcycle engine, just changing the filter to flow more air, which they do, is only part of what needs to be done. Rejetting the carb to allow for more air to fuel mixture and improving the flow at the exhaust pipe are all critical to improving the performance.
I have personally seen dramatic improvements across the RPM range on these motorcycles when all three things are done.
I have never tried this in a fuel injected auto engine but would assume the electronics would adjust the air to fuel mixture if more air flow was achieved with a K&N but I'm not sure there would be much benefit without also modifying the exhaust to also make it less restrictive.
When doing these modifications to motorcycles, performance is improved but pollution is increased. I would assume this would also be the case in an auto engine and after making all three modifications, your engine might not pass its next smog inspection. However, adding flowmasters behind the catalitic may not create a pollution problem.
I believe changing the filter would help some but adding flowmasters would be even better.
When doing your flow calculations, is there a way to take intake, fuel to air ratios and exhaust flow into consideration to make a more precise determination?
I don't have a text book to calculate flow, but with regard to off road motorcycles, I can tell you from personal experience that increasing the flow of air intake, properly mixing the air to fuel mixture and making the exhaust less restrictive makes big improvements in performance. Exhaust is a very important element as opening up the exhaust too much will also reduce HP and torque. It has to be balanced as do the other two elements.
jim2,
I'm not sure I know what you mean when you say adding flowmasters behind the catalytic converter. I've seen articles about putting a sensor in the exhaust to measure the products of combustion and using that data with a reprogrammed chip to fine tune the incoming air mixture. It seemed like a far-out concept to me, so I don't think I would be interested. But is this the kind of thing you are referring to?
Free flowing exhausts can work wonders, even on nice diesel trucks. Gale banks has some good systems for the '97 power strokes, and I'm assuming they'll come out with models for the SDs shortly.
Their exhaust kit for Fords with a 460 gained 68 hp, 85 lbft torque, and 15% better mileage. These are off their website, but they sound fair to me (a good exhaust system, including headers, can work wonders). To answer the inevitable question, factories don't use them on mass-market vehicles because they're harder to install, more expensive than manifolds, may wear out faster, and most people don't care.
Want more info? Check out their website:
http://www.galebanks.com/GBford.html
I wonder if their writers thought the /wind/age referred to "wind" as in yarn instead of "wind" as in strong breezes?
Before I asked, I had tried www.flowmaster.com and something came up that indicated some kind of software package for the analysis of temperature, pressure and flow distribution. I guess fluid flow is a hotter topic than I thought.
Oh well, thanks for the info.
The new auto engines have fuel injection and sensors all over the engine. With our dirt bikes and carbs there are no sensors to worry about.
Will the auto engine sensors pick up the fact you have increased air intake, with your K&N, and decreased exhaust back pressure, with your cat back exhaust, and adjust the fuel to air mixture in your fuel injection system? Do K&N, Flowmaster or cat back address a cradle to grave approach to making modifications to intake, fuel mixture, sensors and exhaust?
As you said, just modifying the air cleaner can actually make an engine, at least a motorcycle engine, run worse without also modifying the rest of the system.
the next thing I think I am going to try out is a hot ignition like Jacobs ,Crane,or Nology I hear they work in improving mpg and power, anyone have more info on any of these products?
Anyone out there used this product and if so how do you like it?
Conventional filters use paper or foam material permeated with millions of tiny, irregular passages, that screen dirt particles out of the air. Because the dirt particles are trapped inside the passages, they eventually clog; and when this occurs, airflow restriction increases dramatically.
With the Filtercharger®, a special cotton fabric is sandwiched between the pleated aluminum screen wires. The pleated design provides five times more filtering surface over the element circumference. The cotton/screen wire filter media is then saturated with a formulated air filter oil.
Acting like a fluid curtain, this oil attracts particles of dirt and debris which build up on the outside of the filter. This buildup of dirt particles suspended in oil creates more and more irregular passages that actually create an additional filtering barrier with use. Not until very fine particles close this secondary "filter layer" does the filtercharger begin to clog.
In most cases, up to 1/8" of dust can cover a Filtercharger® before performance is significantly affected. On a street driven vehicle, a Filtercharger® can last up to 50,000 miles before service is required. Then, because it's made of reusable materials, you can just clean it, apply fresh K&N Filter Oil and Re-install.
Of course, this is all just so much marketing literature. Still, I've not known too many people (if anyone) to buy them and then complain.
is a K&N filter and a Borla exaust system. For economy? Nope. For performance? Maybe. For the sheer pleasure of being able to hear my engine again. Yup. Call it second childhood or midlife crisis. I think most folks do it for the same reason!!
Just my $.02
paper filter= least flow, most filtration
foam filter= most flow, least filtration
gauze type(K+N)= more flow than paper, poorer filtration. Less flow than foam, better filtration.
It's ya'lls choice.............
I've looked at the K&N literature and from their own charts and graphs the following:
Air flow is increased
Horse power is increased
These benefits are minimal until significant engine RPM has been achieved. In a gasoline engine, the 10% or so horse power gain is around 5000 RPM.
The questions are:
How often do you need this horsepower gain?
Are you willing to run your engine at 5000 RPM to achieve the horsepower gain?
Rich
PROBABLY there is some performance advantage with the K&N, but the cost was the deciding factor for me.
Do I like to live around 5000rpm? For my Mustangs, yes. For my F150 I will (after the new engine is put in next month). So, if there is true power to be had around the 5000rpm limit, count me in!
Me, I'd rather buy a paper filter and spend the extra time playing.
I bought a K&N Air Fliter for my (then) new '95 S-10 with a 4.3 TBI engine. I had owned the truck for 6 months by that time so had a good 'seat of the pants' feel for how it proformed. One kick I had was the lousy throttle response. It was like I had to call Western Union to send a telegram to the engine! "Pay attention up there...we're going to accelerate now!"
After I installed the K&N I backed out the drive to run an errand for the wife. When I hit the gas like I usually did, I chirped the rear tires! Talk about surprised! Was this a dramatic increase in horsepower? Hell if I know. All I know is that I now have much better throttle response at all RPM ranges and vehicle speeds than I did with the OEM filter.
As for gas milage changes I can't tell you about that. I usually just drive around town and with the traffic the way it is here my mileage is always fluctuating anyway.
And one side note. I kept my last S-10 for 13 years and I intend to do the same with this one. So if I only buy one air filter (at $39.95 btw) vs 5-10 over its lifetime, what have I lost?