Nissan Altima

har1bush

I agree... I am skeptical of how Nissan will make an SE V6 model a $25K car. In terms of the powertrain and suspension design, the car seems very sophisticated, which usually means expensive. The only way they could have cut the cost is if they shorted out on trim quality and noise insulation. Just by looking at the pictures, the interior of the Altima looks like something out of a Civic, only with some Nissanesque ques.

maxamillion1

I am not trying to be smart or anything like that, but how in the world does the Altima look like the Civic on the inside? Materials, trim, design? I just don't see it, please explain.

Also, Nissan will have to make the car for no higher than about $25,500 MSRP, if they don't the car will be comparing to close to the Maxima, which Nissan just doesn't want to happen. Also, a new more competitive Camry debuts about the same time as the Altima, and the Accord can be purchased for about $26,000 MSRP, but many can get the car for about $22,500-$23,000. So I'd expect to get a loaded 3.5SE for about $23,500 in July or August of next year when I buy.

har1bush

I didnt say that the interior looked like the Civic's... I just meant the interior looked it like it would belong in a Civic because compared to those of the Camry, Accord, and Maxima, the interior doesnt have that luxuriousness (for instance, I think someone was saying earlier that there seems to be no place on the dash for any woodtrims)... To me it just looked pretty stark and not all that inviting.

maxamillion1

I understand, thanks for clearing it up for me.

qin2

I think we've gone over the MPG thing before. While Nissan hasn't released the figures for the '02 Altima, they have released them for the '02 Maxima. A car which uses the exact same motor but tuned for a little more power (20hp) through a variable intake/muffler. The Maxima which is listed as weighing 200 lbs more then the Altima gets a 21/28 rating, therefore I couldn't image why the lighter and less power producing Altima would be any less then that.

s1gins

Gin2-
While all that yousaid is important another major factor to consider is the gearing. The Maxima is using a 6 speed while the Altima will carry on with a 5 speed. The 6 speed will allow for a lower RPM level while cruising which will raise MPG.

danny25

I believe the 5th and 6th gear on the new Maxima are both overdrive gears which would only be used on the highway and wouldn't affect the city mpg. And the auto is still a four speed just like the Altima so those numbers should be very similar.

jarednoah

i agree that the new Altima is nice but it isnt the kind of design that i would consider clean. It might appeal to some but definitely not the majority. Price would be another factor. If its priced nicely say from 20K to 23K, then Nissan may have a winner. Someone said over here that to price it in the 25K range like the Accords and the Camries would be a suicide. I agree because honestly and we have to face stark realities here that Nissan isnt quite there yet. It was once a great car manufacturer, but it has been downhill eversince. Only lately that they started proving once again that they deserve to be in the league. If they wanted to be even shortlisted by buyers in the midsize car segment then they have not only to be competitive but they have to offer more car for the dollar. If they try to price it within the accord and camry range, i doubt they will make it. its not always HPs and torques and how currently hot the design is, it will always be how the car will hold up, its reliability and for some, resale value. in terms of all these things, Nissan isnt as proven yet compared to Honda and Toyota.

speedracer3

Just some food for thought. Even though Nissan has seen hard times, they are still the second largest Japanese manufacturer (by volume). That's right, Nissan still sells more cars and trucks than Honda.

bimmer4me

Nissan is larger than Honda, but only world wide. As for sales in the USA, Nissan falls way behind in comparison to Honda or Toyota...

speedracer3

"Nissan is larger than Honda, but only world wide"

Only worldwide?. Doesn't that sound silly to you?.

lgoldin

I really like word ONLY describing world wide. I assume US is larger, right? 8-)

bimmer4me

Honda trumps Nissan in sales by a huge margin in the USA. Are you happy now?

har1bush

Ah the good ole American attitude... NO PLACE ON EARTH COMBINED compares to the US of A eh? Nissan makes awesome cars... just compare the Maxima with a Camry and Accord V6 models... you'll have to admit the Maxima is at equals or betters the competition. Let's face it, the only reason why Camrys and Accords sell well is because they have four-cylinder, cheaper models available... The Maxima outsells the six-cylinder competitors so who's to say Nissan is lagging behind? Sure Nissan only expects to sell less than 200,000 Altimas next model year, but that could increase because it blends in some of the best components under a sedan body ever. I've complained about its interior earlier, but if the rest of the car works well, the Altima will definitely be considered heads and shoulders above the Accord or the Camry.

c1rybick

Personally, I think a loaded SE Altima will retail for at least 27K. If you wheel and deal you could get it close to MSRP, and pay, say 25K.

A loaded SE Altima for 22K-23.5K is a pipe dream, IMHO.

jochi

Just because it's a Nissan you can't have the same price as the Camcords? That's bunk. You get what you pay for. And if it is the same price, you'll get 17 inch tires/rims, Electric brake distribution, curtain airbags, trip computer, a bitchin sound system, more power, more room etc etc. over the Camcords.

s852

At that price, you can look at cars with more valet appeal, such as a base TL or some other near-luxury brand.
These are not Z-28s VS Mustang GTs. The one with the most horspower does not always win.
People expect a lot of refinement for $27K, not just raw horsepower.

har1bush

I agree... the Altima should not even have a sniff at 27K! As mentioned before, even though the powertrain and the suspension sounds awesome, the interior design and material does not seem very upscale. This is a major sign that Nissan went to some length in cutting their costs -- look at the American cars for instance... the numbers on a Pontiac sounds great for its price, but when it gets down to the nitty gritty, it doesnt turn out to be the value that people might see it as at first glance. Now, I'm not saying that the Altima will be as horrid as a Pontiac (or any other American car), but I'm just saying watch out for small blemishes that might have been covered up why those 240 horses.

jochi

If the interior was lo-cash, why would there be electroluminescent gauges and trip comp.? There is no cost cutting here. One of Nissan's objectives is to have Germanic levels of quality in their interiors according to what I've read. Note quality not durability and reliability. I'd be really surprised if the interior was low quality. Most that have seen it say the pictures do not do the interior justice. I'll reserve my opinion on that till I see it in person. As for stuffing an overachieving engine into a piece of trash, the engine design is 7 years old, the 3.5 version has been used in the Pathy/QX4. R&D for that would be minimal. The rear suspension is derived from the Skyline, all the electronic gizmos have been used in other products. The platform is all new, that's where most of the R&D would have gone. But I'm certain Nissan would not cheap out on that, since the platform will be used in the next Maxima, minivan, and possibly carbased SUV, thus spreading the cost around.

jarednoah

Nissan above all is still a business. Definetely there will be cost cutting but it would be in such places that the average consumer wont even notice. The average consumer will only notice the raw horsepower and the cool design. Which makes him think that he got the coolest car. EVER. Be realistic... and dont be a blind stupid.

har1bush

Because the Altima has a lot of great things that other cars in its class does not have, there is bound to be something that Nissan did to cut costs. Now, I was using the interior as an example, but certainly there are many other ways to cut their costs (insulation material, trunk hinge design, the lack of an automatic climate control, etc. etc.). Let's be realistic, if Honda sells 400000+ Accords every year, and it has a smaller engine, less fancier suspension (although the double wishbone design is still better than the cheaper strut design), and less room, but is invoiced around 22K, how will Nissan do the same when it plans on making 180000+ a year? You just can't have everything go your way sometimes...

maxamillion1

The 3.5SE model will have climate control included in the Leather Package

s852

Maybe buyers can have their cake and eat it too.
Maybe the Altima SE will have all these great features and interior that rivals a Passat GLX and 240HP for $23K fully optioned out.

I remember years ago the domestic automakers were complaining that Japanese automakers were dumping their cars into the US for less than it cost to build them.
People say the current Toyoto Prius hybrid costs more to build than the $21K sticker price.

I don't know what is going to happen. There are more prestigous cars available for around $27K if Nissan tries to price a loaded Altima anywhere near that range.

In 10 days, full road test reviews will be out where the writers can make comments about how the car drives and how nice or how cheap they think the interior looks. Soon after, official pricing should be out and the speculation can cease.

jochi

It's stupid to think that only volume leaders are able not to cut costs. You are blind to see there are ways to cut costs that do not involve reducing the quality of the product. Examples: platform sharing, engine sharing, efficient build processes, building domestically. Given this, why do you think the TL so cheap compared to its predecessor? I would find it hard to believe that even you would think that the previous TL was a better car than the current one, with the previous TL being more expensive, it must be better. Nissan's plant in Symrna is the most efficient plant in the country this year, and it's set to be even more efficient to build the Altima (Upgrades in both Derchard and Symrna plants). Plus there are trick build processes which are a first for Nissan and the industry which will make the building of it more efficient. I'm not saying this car is going to be perfect, but I'm not stupid to think that you can build a car that is head and shoulders above the competition by not hiding something. God forbid trying to build a better car than the Camcords. Can you cut down the costs for every dollar used to determine the MSRP of a Camcord or Altima? Is it blasphemous to think another company can be more efficient in building their products?

speedracer3

That car manufacturers not only make money from selling a car. Actually, they usually don't make that much per vehicle. They do make a fortune from the financing of a vehicle. Nissan is known for agressively "discounting" cars and making their money on the back-end. Nissan has always been competitive in price vs. Toyota and Honda. Nissan's problem has been "product" not price. I have a feeling that the Altima will not only deliver the product but the price as well. Call me an optimist.

redline65

How about service after the sale? Are Nissan dealerships pretty reasonable in their service pricing for things like oil changes, tranny service, tune-ups, etc.? Never owned a Nissan, so I've never had experiences with them.

c1rybick

Hah. It's sad but true that in the 2001 annual car issue from Consumer Reports Nissan ranked absolutely dead last in the dealership rating.

speedracer3

Nissan doesn't make any money on dealership service. Dealers are independently owned and operated.

ludacris

wow i didnt think it was that bad lol. my dealer has been pretty okay. only problem is that when we took the Maxima to the dealer regarding a TSB the guy acted like he didnt know anything about it and like there was no problem when you could hear the subwoofer rattling -_- oh well...

i think Nissan should have been ahead of Ford. Ford service is stupid, bring the car in for one thing and theyll fix it. while fixing it theyll "accidnetly" break something else so you'll have to come back in a month.

10 more days : )

qin2

"(although the double wishbone design is still better than the cheaper strut design)"

Would you also say that the handling of a BMW is inferior to a Honda Accord? After all, the Accord does use a double wishbone setup as opposed to the 'cheaper strut design' found on BMWs.

har1bush

now who's comparing BMW's with the Accord? I'm just saying a comparable double wishbone suspension is a fancier design and probably more expensive than the typical strut design (i.e. a Camry... not a Bimmer). I've said it before, Honda is no BMW because BMW will make the best car on earth with nothing but toothpicks and Elmer's glue (now that is a figurative speech... if I must point out everything)

As for Nissan cutting costs... I'm merely making an educated guess here based on the two best sellers in the U.S. If a car company really tried, maybe they CAN make things so efficient that they won't have to cut costs and give consumers more bang for buck. However, that still seems like wishful thinking to me based on the idea of simple supply and demand. Because Honda sells a heck of a lot more Accords than Nissan will with the Altima, Honda will get a lot more discounts from their suppliers for just about everything they get to build the car. Especially since the Altima is a brand new design, sharing only the powertrain and a similar suspension design with its Nissan cousins, it will be a challenge for Nissan to make the Altima stand out of the competition in all aspects of a vehicle.

jochi

From what I've experienced, the Maxima (strut) can run circles around the Accord in the handling dept.

himomer

I can just see it now. A lot full of 2002 Altima's all with ballons and bright writing on the windshield '0.9% for 60months' dealers offering the car as cheap as they can without losing their job (just like they did the 2000 Maxima when it came out). I don't think the altima is going to be a big seller in my area. More people around her seem to prefer domestic cars or BMW's(only luxury car dealer in my city) over asian cars and other german cars. Not to long ago everyone around here had a craze for volvos. Don't get me wrong the new Altima looks great and i really like the car but i just can't picture myself doing more than turning my head as I pass by the car lot.

qin2

Sorry har1bush, didn't realize you were taking cost isntead of performance. My mistake.

venus537

the Maxima (strut) can run circles around the Accord in the handling dept.

This is a myth.

jochi

My own judgement may be subjective. I do find my friend's Maxima SE 95 more driver oriented. The Accord V6 99 my bro has doesn't seem to feel as good. I am impartial to Nissans though!

BUT........

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/43901/page024.html

har1bush

Those are just numbers... from Edmunds for godsakes. Plus, they were comparing the SE model with the Accord -- of course the handling numbers are going to be better than the Accord when the Maxima SE is tuned with a much stiffer suspension and larger wheels riding on lower profile tires (=slightly harsher ride), as well as Maxima maybe having a quicker steering ratio (?), which can really improve those slalom times. Plus, handling isn't just about numbers! Would you guys say that a Lexus GS430 is a BETTER handling car than a BMW 540 just because the Lexus has the numbers game won? BMW instead gives you a much better feel for the road and that in itself is more important than the skidpad or the slalom numbers to me. Let's first get numbers that a more credible auto-testers put up (come on! they rated the Ford Taurus in front of the Maxima overall!) comparing the Accord EX V6 with a Maxima GLE and also go out there and drive these cars for yourself... Anyhow, enough on this topic... let's just talk about the Altima and just conclude from this suspension talk that no matter the design, today's cars will drive fairly well compared to its competition~

spidermonkey

How much a car costs to make is very complex. Trust me, smart manufacturers will pay a premium for a guaranteed supply of quality parts. Why? Because a multibillion dollar plant sitting idle for a couple of days while waiting on the next shipment is much more expensive than saving a few percent on a specific part. Nissan may have saved money during the design process. Some companies are just run more efficiently during the design phase. Maybe their design cycle is shorter than their competitors? I read a few months ago that Nissan can build a car faster than just about anybody. My point is that companies design, market, build, and distribute cars differently, all of which affect vehicle cost. The economics go way beyond volume discounts on parts. Suppliers can only cut their margins so much.

(Just think, GM is one of the biggest car companies, yet they certainly don't have the largest margins)

maxamillion1

200 hp for the V6 with 209 ft-lb of torque
155 hp for the I4, torque to be announced.

If the horsepower figures aren't bad enough, the V6 will not be available with the 5 speed manual, at least in Canada.

s852

It loses the horsepower race with the Altima, but as long as it is silky smooth and quiet, most Camry buyers are going to be quite satisfied with it.
Most Camry buyers have managed to live with the very weak 4 cyclinder.
At least a navigation system will be available for top end Camrys. This is not available on the Altima. You need to get a 2002 Maxima to get a navigation system on a Nissan.

corvette

If the Camry V6 is like the current one, it requires premium fuel ($$$). Sheesh! I hope the new Nissan engines don't.

har1bush

The Altima V6 will most likely be recommended to get premium fuel for that "optimum" performance, since the current Maxima's engine does as well. However, at least putting in premium fuel into that 3.5L V6 will be anyone's worthwhile, but the thought of putting in premium for the Camry feels a little crappy. As far as I'm concerned, you could get 200hp from the Accord and still put in the 87 octane fuel without sacrificing anything.

s852

Just like the others, premium fuel is recommended, not required.

maxamillion1

But how much do you think it will cost with the Navi, the price will probably be as high as a Maxima GLE loaded with all the options anyway. Also, in my area, where it has always been hard to find a Camry XLE, I probably want see many of them anyway.

I know that most buyers will not mind not having as much horsepower, but Toyota could have at least but about 15 more hp in the mix. IMO
Maybe the SE with the TRD will have about 50 more horses.

s852

There is not even any place to install it in the dash of an Altima and it is not listed with the options on the nissannews.com site. The navgation would make it overstep into the Maxima's price and features level.

It is possible that the navigation could be available on the Camry LE as well, but it will surely be available in the top line Camry XLE/SLE model.

Navigation is going to be more and more available on future Toyotas. The economy Prius sedan and the new Toyota Matrix microvan will also have navigation systems available for 2002.

maxamillion1

In the pathfinder, they moved the Climate controls in with the Navi, maybe next year after the Maxima is redesigned, they might do the same thing with the Altima. It is possible, or maybe they could just make it a pop up screan like in the I30. The main reasons why Nissan didn't add the Navi to the Altima is to differate the two, if the Altima had the Navi, along with the power passenger's seat, the Maxima wouldn't have anything to really make up for the price difference. But I do agree, for those who would need it, the Navi should have been optional.

jochi

This post takes nothing away from the Camry or Maxima, but honestly.... who in the heck needs a Nav. system?!?! What ever happened to a map? I can't justify paying $2K for an option that will ruin my interior ergonomics and will be used maybe once in a blue moon (the way i use a car). It might be different for others, but how do you justify something like this?

c1rybick

Doesn't the current V6 Camry run fine on 87? Admittedly, I pamper my baby (powered by the 3.0 V6's predecessor 2.8 I6) with 93. Mom always used at least 89.

s852

People who travel outside areas they are familiar with and people like real estate agents who travel from house to house or business to business will find it useful. Much nicer than a paper map.
I used a basic GPS nav system in a Hertz rental Taurus and it was very useful to map out points of interest on vacation.
Otherwise it is just very cool to have.
Not everyone needs it, that is why it is an OPTIONAL and not standard feature on most cars.

tcpip1

I would buy a car with a Nav system. I know I can go to mapquest.com to print out a driving directions sheet. It is just too stressful to drive in NJ and look at the sheet for directions at the same time.

It will be nice to have an assistant who knows how to get to the destination sits beside me and tell me when to make turns. I hope that the Nav system is just like that assistant. I heard good comments about TL's Nav system, which is made by Alpine.