Nissan Altima

ashutoshsm

gerapau

oac3: If you are truely interested in buying this car why not take a trip north to Canada. Someone in the Maxima topic and Pathfinder topic has been saying that this is possible. I know that most manufacturers frown on this and make it next to impossible for Canadian dealers to sell new cars to Americans but according to this person, Nissan allows it. With the current exchange rates the saving can be substantial. For example, an almost fully loaded 3.5 SE (HID head lights are not available on the Altima in Canada) which has an MSRP in the US of $28,770 has an MSRP in Canada of $32,798 CAD or about $20,800 USD when converted to US dollars. That's $8,000 less for the same car. For reference, a fully loaded Maxima SE costs about $6,500 USD less in Canada, a Honda Accord EX V6 about $5,600 USD less, a fully loaded Camry XLEV6 about $6,400 USD less, and a VW Passat GLX V6 about $3,900 USD less. I am not quite sure how the manufacturers come up with prices for the two countries. The Passat GLX which costs about $2,000 less then a fully loaded Maxima SE in the US costs about $2,000 more then that same Maxima in Canada. If all of these cars can produce a profit in Canada the manufacturers must be doing real well in the US.

ashutoshsm

jrct9454

...would be a good idea if you can actually do it legally, and get it back to the US and registered with all of those savings largely intact. I await the first such stories of successful transactions...

ruski

the problem is not paying extra for the ABS and traction control (whether built into the standard price or added for an option). To me the problem is finding enough cars with this package on the dealer lots. It seems that a lot of dealers have ordered lots of Altimas loaded with everything BUT ABS and TC.

If they put such sophisticated airbags in this car because they want it to be perceived as a safe car, why are they not building ABS and TC in as a standard feature?

P.S. I also have not seen any Altimas on the dealer lots here in South FL that have the HID headlights.

storyteller

Check out post #3259 on the Nissan Maxima Town Hall forum for some information on buying in Canada. If you can buy a Maxima in Canada, you should be able to buy an Altima up there. The fellow doing this posting seems eager to share what he has learned. He claims to have saved about $4,000 on a Maxima purchase strictly by taking advantage of the exchange rate.

jaserb

I've looked into it, and plan on giving it a try when I'm ready to plunk down some cash. There is a 2.5% duty charged when importing a car for personal use from Canada to the US, unless that car was built in North America (think NAFTA). So this would be a hit for the Maxima but not the Altima. Depending on state requirements, you may have to swap the speedo before licensing. Canada also has a nationwide 7% sales tax, but you can get a refund on that. Most provinces have an additional sales tax, also - Alberta does not. The only thing that concerns me is how to get financed. I'm not sure if credit unions / banks will loan money to buy a car in Canada.
The Pathfinder board guy is jlofquist, and he claims to know of around 60 people that have done this. Nissan seems to be a good brand to try this with, since they have a big gap between US and Can. pricing and will honor the Canadian warranty in the US.
-Jason

gerapau

This is not a question of being legal or not. Free trade has made it legal. It is just that most manufacturers do not allow it. I personally know the owner of a local Chrysler dealership. He told me that it is OK for them to sell cars to Americans. The only problem was that as soon as the car would be registered in the US, Chrysler would charge his dealership a rather large fee. Chrysler does this to keep their American dealers competitive (and most manufacturers do something similar). Otherwise, dealers near the Canadian border would have a hard time preventing customers from buying in Canada.

I can not personally guarentee that Nissan does not do something similar to this but there is someone in the Maxima topic that bought his Pathfinder in Canada and saved many $s. He states that he knows at least 60 people that have done the same and is willing to help anyone else wanting to do the same. His userid in Edmunds is lofquist. Check it out. Even if some of the money saved is eaten up in paperwork and travel costs, as long as the manufacturer allows it, you stand to save thousands.

mirth

ashuto - Finally. :-)

green23

I talked to a dealer about buying a 2002 Altima SE. They agreed to find one like I want for $800 over invoice (including dealer fee) which sounded pretty good, but the invoice included $540 destination charge and $400 MA which the dealer said was a market assessment that Nissan charges them. The destination charge I am familiar with, but I have never seen the MA before. Does anyone know anything about it? Is this a legit cost or are they trying to get a few more dollars like with the dealer fee?

sdatta

like I am? Why do they force you to basically get a bunch of options or none at all?

mirth

If the MA is on the car's sticker, then it's "legit" - probably an advertising fee. Those fees tend to be geographically based, so you might hear of someone in another part of the country not paying it at all. Bottom line is whether you think it's a good price overall. I always calculate "invoice" as the kbb invoice plus destination charge. So I would say you're paying $1200 over invoice. But maybe that's currently a good deal in your area...?

cyranno99

the salesguy told me it was big enough for three bodies.... I said "ooookay....."

blueguydotcom

A friend wants a Max with leather but he's not keen on the sunroof or the useless Bose stereo Nissan requires. The part that annoys me the most: the darn stereo requirement. If there's one item on a car that's not worth more than $100, it's the stereo. I listen to AM radio 95% of the time and CDs the rest. I can live with a single feed system.

colorsofspring

..."I think we need to put some things in perspective;
It seems like alot of people are complaining about the price of the altima, and saying it costs $30,000, Well, it can cost high $29,000's with every possible option they make."

You hit the nail on the head. If you want a luxury car, then for crying out loud buy one!
The Altima is NOT and NEVER will be luxurious, no matter how many options you load it up with.
I am fine with 2.5 S auto.. skip the bells and whistles please.. don't need 'em. If I want them I'll get a Maxima.

oac3

I hear you on going to Canada to get an Alty, "...if I am seriously interested in this car...", as you said. First off, like I said earlier, I am no longer interested in an Alty at the current prices. Maybe when the prices come way down later on, it may rekindle my interest. For now I will have to decline the tempting and intriguing alternative by buying north of the border. Hey, you do not know this, but I am Canadian.... hence buying from Canada would suit me just fine, but the logistics of this is way too complex. IMO, many things can go wrong ... odometer, changing to US specs, re-selling later, VIN issues, warranty issues, dealer issues, manufacturer issues, etc... etc...

So, I'll rather continue my search over here until I find something too good to pass up. I ain't in any hurry just yet...

But, many thanks for your enlightening post

brad45

I think most Altys are being distributed by Nissan not ordered by dealers yet. This leads me to think that Nissan had a supply or manufacturing problem with either the ABS or side airbags. They didn't want to delay the release so the built the first 10 or 30K without that option. ABS is much too popular an option to send out so many cars without it.

Few cars with ABS = marketing mistake by Nissan.
It was the only thing my car didn't have that I wanted.

Just a theory.

jf_spade

I did the internet/email thing with several dealers and up until now the lowest bid was 19575 including flatbed delivery for a 2.5 S w/ convenience package. After I recieved the last bid today (I planned on buying this saturday) the lowest bid is an amazing 18600+ tax, title(invoice is 18873)!!!! The only catch is that it's a dealership about 80 miles from here (easy highway drive and that the dealer doesn't have the car yet. He said that he would trade with someone for it and should have it by next week (fine with me). He said that I have to put a deposit down on it to keep it. This deal sounds too good to be true, but so far everything is going good. With everyone complaining about Altima prices, I know I'm getting a good deal. I'll keep ya'll posted on how things go.

ronoboy

Only took our dealer a few weeks to track down an Altima S automatic without convenience package but with ABS/side air bags (and in the color we wanted), but the few on their lot didn't seem to have ABS/side air bags. They put enough into the S version (keyless remote, CD player, a/c, etc.) that the convenience package didn't seem necessary the way it often does.

As to problems with ABS/side air bags I hope to never find out regarding the side air bags! ABS hadn't had to kick in yet but I'll let you know if there are problems - the brakes on the car seem quite good so far.

corkfish

I'm also amazed when I hear people say, "what? $25,000 for an Altima?". Nissan should have said "ok, we're discontinuing the Altima and coming out with a new car to replace it." Change the name and everyone would be saying "wow, what a great car for the money". Plastic in the interior? How terrible. My brother just bought a $70,000 Porsche and it has plastic in it. I am confused, however, that it is possible to get the Maxima and the Altima at basically the same price. For the money, I'd rather have the Maxima with the six speed.

fasterthanu

Of course all cars have plastic. Duh. But we're talking about the quality of the plastic, especially for the money charged, and whether the pieces fit properly. If that doesn't matter to you, get a Chevy. Large cars with strong engines can be had there as well.

ratonlaveur

I am very inclined toward the new Altima; but there is two things that prevent me to go an get this car right now.
First, this car is at his first year and Nissan still have minors improvements to do on the car to work out bugs and finish shortcuts.
Second, as long as the Maxima still nearly in the same league, there will be no HLSD available for the Altima and this option is the only way to reduce the big torque steer affecting the Altima.

I'm not in a hurry, I will probably be a happy Nissan Altima SE owner in a (long) year or so, but I will have the HLSD...

gerapau

What plastic is it that everyone here feels is cheap? Is it the plastic around the heating controls and radio or the material that the rest of the dash is made out of? I have only sat in the Altima once but thought that the plastic around the radio was the same as the plastic around the radio in my Maxima (just too much of it). I wasn't really interested in buying a car when I sat in the Altima (I was just in for an oil change) so I didn't really pay close attention to details. I definately like the interior of the Max more then the Altima but didn't really notice that the Altima looked cheap.

ateixeira

I felt the interior plastic was fine. My only dislike was the yellow/orange lighting that reminds me of Pontiac a bit too much.

We just aren't used to seeing Altimas priced near $30 grand. But we're also not used to HIDs and 240hp, either. A BMW 330 with the same options will cost about $10 grand more, though it is RWD.

I think people have to adjust their thinking and view the Altima as a category buster, a leader in available features and power. That carries a price tag to go with it, of course.

-juice

jmfreshour

cncman-brilliant post. Thanks for the fresh perspective. I agree that a loaded Altima is just a silly purchase. However, if you configure a moderately equipped SE, the price is very comparable to Nissan's stated competition. I configured a Camry LE V6, Passat GLS V6, Accord EX-V6, and SE with the same levels of equipment (some standard, some optional) at invoice: alloy wheels, auto, moonroof, traction control, ABS, side curtain airbags, and floor mats. Camry-$22,960, Passat-$25,328, Accord-$23,205, and SE-$23,331. I fail to see the validity of the complaints that the price of the SE is too high. If you keep the options in check, you can get a screamer of a car for a very competitive price, assuming that you can deal from invoice. You simply can not compare the old Altima to the new one in any manner, shape, or form. The list price on my 95 SE was $20k for pete's sake. The only thing that is the same is the name. I want this car. Can someone please tell my wife that we do not need an SUV in order to have kids?

blueguydotcom

I think most of us take issue with the widespread use on the console and dash of that hard, hollow sounding, cool plastic. Touch the dash...it's rock solid and if you knock on it one gets the feeling it's made of the same injection molded plastic as old Star Wars toys. Touch the little trap door beneath the climate control and the textured plastic actually bends, but it's not soft, it's just cheap.

Weird thing is Nissan used soft touch materials even back in the days of the Stanza. Now they're using austere, cold, hard plastics and they have the nerve to claim the Passat with its wonderfully inviting dash as the benchmark. That's sorta like saying you aimed to look like Arnie in Conan but you weigh as much as Pee Wee Herman. People probably wouldn't be so miffed if Nissan hadn't stupidly proclaimed they were aiming for the Passat. It's obvious from the interior components that they were either too lazy, too cheap or too blind to really look at a Passat.

gerapau

Don't forget that the Accord EXV6 comes standard with leather seats. To get the Altima with leather would cost you more then you state here. Also, if the Altima was going for invoice then I think that there would be a lot fewer complaints in here. As it is now, it looks like the Altima is being sold in most areas for closer to MSRP while the Accord and Camry are being sold at closer to invoice. This means that the cost to buy the Altima is currently more then the other cars mentioned and some people find it hard to justify this.

ateixeira

Your wife may be right. Kids take up lots of cargo space. You may not need an SUV, but an Altima wagon would be nice.

Close to MSRP prices are normal for brand new cars, this is nothing out of the ordinary. Too expensive? Wait 2 months. Big deal, IMO.

-juice

jmfreshour

Absolutely correct on all points. I tried to configure an Accord LX-V6 with the same options, but Honda's nutty packaging theory requires one to step up to an EX to get most of those options. My pricing scenario depends on the assumption that one can deal from invoice, perhaps that will be true later in the year or early next year. If that were the case, I feel that a moderately equipped SE is very much competitive with the bunch. Any takers on re-programming my wife to believe that she can have kids and not have to have an SUV?

ateixeira

SUVs have high lift over points for your stroller and other baby gear. It can also be quite a lift to get an infant carrier up into some taller SUVs.

Wagons have the room of SUVs without the inconvenient height. Sedans have done the job for families for years, just pack light.

-juice

stanny1

If we are talking 30k for a loaded FWD car, you could always buy a slightly used Lincoln LS, IS300,or Bimmer. There are so many cars coming off leases and other deals to consider. Even the Maxima with a six-speed, which has got to be the King Kong FWD deal of the century.

blueguydotcom

6 speed for 24k. Now that's a deal. Of course that's without Nissan's version of leather and no sunroof. But 24k for a 255 HP car...yum.

ateixeira

But the max has that torsion beam rear suspension. I tried one at Edmunds Live, back to back with a Camry and a Passat, and it didn't seem to ride and handle as well. The course was very short, but that was my quick impression.

The Altima gets a true independent rear, so I'd love to hold a rematch (c'mon Edmunds).

-juice

pat

I think some of you have already seen this but in case anyone missed it, the Altima has won top honors in the "Midsize Sedan -- Under $30,000" category. Follow the link on the left sidebar of this page to read the story.

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

gerapau

The beam suspension on the Max handles better then many (not all) independant setups most of the time. There are certain situations though where the non-independant setup falters, i.e. when the corners get fairly rough. If you enjoy a nice soft ride then the Max is not your cup of tea. When it comes to handling though, one is usually talking about how a car feels and acts when it takes corners and is less interested in a soft ride. I will agree that the ride on the Max is not as soft as the Camry and Passat. The Max SE, though, will outhandle either of those two cars 99% of the time.

blueguydotcom

I'm guessing it was NOT an SE. If it were an SE, my previous experience pushing all three cars tells me the Max mops up the floor with the wallowing Buick-esque Camry and nose-diving Passat.

ateixeira

Edmunds Live had short autocross course with a bumpy section you had to drive over. That's where the Max let me down. It was fine on the smooth pavement, and accelerating (though with 222hp not any quicker than the other automatic V6 sedans they had).

Nissan deserves credit for getting 255hp and a 6 speed on the new ones, though.

Honestly, I do not recall what exact model, but it was probably a GXE automatic.

-juice

riez

gerapau... You state that the Maxima's non-independent rear beam set up "handles better than many (not all) independent set ups most of the time". Can you elaborate? Not sure what you mean. Are you talking Maxima SE? GLE? Base? And which other cars are you talking about? Are you going only by skidpad or slalom numbers?

Hope you aren't stating something like a 3.5L Maxima SE will outhandle a base 2.2L Accord I-4 or Camry I-4. Apples to apples comparison would at least be sport package and V-6 equivalents, trying to keep tires/wheels as similar as possible.

Trying to compare handling in the abstract is quite difficult; however, all things being otherwise equal, an IRS will always provide superior ride and handling on all road surfaces. Great example is in the Mustang. Same platform can be had both non-IRS and IRS. Base and GT use non-IRS while the Cobra gets you the IRS. Check out the differences reported by press. The IRS set up gets you improved handling and ride over all road surfaces.

Nissan's beam axle is cheap to produce and space efficient. Great for a minivan (see Nissan Quest) but not for a serious sport sedan as those areas are unrelated to handling or ride. That is why the new Altima and upcoming G35 are fully independent front and rear, as likely will the 2003 Maxima.

mckague

Sell it as a safety issue. An mother-to-be will love that. Turn the suv safety issue on its head. Tell her she doesn't really want a poorly accelerating, poorly braking, sloppy handling tippy mobile that guzzles gas and money to boot. That would be dangerous and uneconomical as well. You need to start saving up if you're going to have a family. SUVs don't just typically cost more to buy, they also cost more to fuel, maintain, and insure. If she's still balking on the size issue, bring some big bags and a baby stroller (borrow them if you have to) to the nearest dealership and show her how easily they all fit in the Altima's big trunk. Demonstrate with a car seat how there is plenty of room to maneuver it in and out of the spacious back seat.

I'm not sure why everyone's convinced they need suv, minivan, or even a wagon just because they have a kid. Actually, I do know why. It's because the auto industry has them convinced of this. If you're going to have several kids, yeah you will need something with more seating room, but otherwise, c'mon. It's really a matter of want, not need. Yeah, maybe it's a little easier with the extra size, but look at all of the negative trade-offs. Heck, my folks raised three boys with nothing more than midsized sedans. I don't remember complaining about a lack of room. I do remember having some fun driving a few of those sedans doin' stuff that would have put me upside down by the side of the road had they been suv's. I'm with you on this one, behind you 100%. Stick to your guns, then give me the courage to do the same with my wife!

dagrin451

i called up a dealer and asked for a price for an Altima 2.5 SL with side air bags and ABS (but u cant get those separately...u got to get the whole leather/convenience package) and the guy told me 25k. It had everyoption available (hated the whole wood trim idea though). That included everything..tax and all that other stuff...supposedly. Another dealer was giving some ridiculously high price. DOes the first one sound like a good deal? It wasnt final.....the dealer said they could bring it down even lower.

stelco

I am going nuts, every time I set my radio presets on both the AM and FM bands they get all mixed up. For example, pressing the FM, preset A number 4, It takes me to the AM Preset Station. Before you know it, All FM Presets have my AM stations on it. Does anyone else have this problem? I tried playing with the travel button and reading the owners manual. I am embarrased to go to the dealer for a new radio.

Please help!!

hawks1

There is really no comparison here - the Alty wins hands down! The auto buying public in this country has been convinced by slick marketing folks that they need an SUV. It has become more of a "keeping up with the Joneses" than any thing else. Remember how every woman thought she "needed" a food processor for her kitchen in the 80's! The SUV has about as much utility for the average family as a man in the moon. And besides, driving a non-responsive truck is just no fun! Opt for the Alty, she will thank you whole-heartedly a year from now if not sooner.

cupholder1

You'll only get a 24k Maxima if you don't mind driving around with basic safety features like side airbags and ABS. If you won't those features, Nissan requires you to buy several option packages which immediately take the price of the car up to 28k.

Insurance for the Maxima is also expensive. It is actually more than for a WRX wagon.

snshan25

Well, I'm going to the dealer and put a deposit on a new 2.5 SL this morning. It's been a long and convoluted path getting to this point. Here are a few random thoughts on my decision and on some of the comments that I've read in this forum.
I'm getting the 2.5 SL for a 36 month lease , with $1.800 down at $235 per month. Now I don't know what others have paid, but this is less than I pay on my '99 SE. Also, it's a hell of a lot less money than the first dealer I talked to quoted me in early September. At that time, with a similar down payment, they were ballparking around $425. What changed? I suspect September 11 has something to do with it. Combine that with an already lousy economy in New England, and it doesn't make for brisk car sales, even on a desired new model such as the Altima. Also, a local dealer is blowing out '02 Accord EX V6's for $237 per month leases with $1800 down. I called the Nissan dealer who had quoted me $310, and whom I had intended to lease from, and told him I was going to get the Accord. That's the truth. I did intend to get an Accord. Look, I love the Altima, but the Accord is a great car, even if it is a little frumpy looking. At that price, I could live with it. Anyway, the Nissan dealer calls me back in five minutes and offers me the car that I had looked at for two bucks less per month than the Honda. Back to Nissan I go (hey, I'm fickle). What's crazy is that another Nissan dealer that I talked to (the one I currently lease from), told me two weeks ago that he couldn't match the $310 deal. He wouldn't budge under $359 and told me if I could get the car for $310 at another dealer to "take it". Just for fun, I went to this dealer yesterday and told him about the $235 deal. He actually doesn't believe me. He thinks that I'm b.s.ing him. He said the other dealer would lose money with that deal. Maybe they will. I doubt it, but that's not my problem. To sum up the price issue, shop around. There seems to be a huge discrepancy among Nissan dealers as to Altima pricing. Caveat emptor.
Now on to a few points about previous comments.
V6. Nice, but who needs it. I gave up stoplight racing ten years ago when I sold my '86 Mustang GT.
Plastic dash. Feels cheap? Do people in cars with more sumptuous dashboards actually caress them, cooing "what an elegant dash I have"? That's scary. It's ergonomics, period. If my dash falls off someday, I'll let you all know.
In regard to trim levels, Nissan does need to take Honda's approach to optioning. I believe most people who want an optioned car, want everything, e.g. Accord EX. Also, ABS should be standard on the SL. An SL should need no options. And why would one buy a loaded S instead of an SL. Is there really anyone out there who's going to buy a loaded S, but without alloy wheels, for example? On the other hand, why should someone have to buy a sunroof to get a Bose sound system or vice versa? Keep it more simple.
And finally, fake wood trim. Yes, I wish they'd leave it off too, but c'mon folks, all fake wood trim looks fake. If you want real wood, you should be considering a Bentley, not an Altima.

corkfish

You're absolutely right. I can't get over these people who notice tiny imperfections in the interior and then hold it against an otherwise great car. The 3.5 Altima has accelertion similar to a Porsche and has a better interior. All for $25,000. You hear similar complaints about the WRX. People complain that they can't get leather! Geez, it's not like you're going to live in it.

bluesky999

As for me, the quality of the interior has been an important consideration in all of my car purchases. And other people I've known have made their final decisions based on that, also. After all, that is where you spend all your time.

As for the Alty interior being nicer than a Porsche, that may be the case for some Porsche's, but certainly not for the Boxster S. The leather alone on that car is so superior to that offered in the Alty that I find the comparison ridiculous. Also the Porsche's brushed aluminum accents, etc., are about 5 leagues ahead of the Alty, IMO. What Porsche model were you referring to, Corky?

dabronxr

Pls ...don't even compare the alty with a porsche. Of course the porsche some better quality items....LOOK AT THE PRICE!. The only thing you can compare is the acceleration. This is no longer the econo- altima...get over it PLEASE!
The car Has more room better engines, better suspension etc..... Yes there are some (interior) items that appear to have gone to the "lowest bidder". It is not like that will change the "driveabilty" (accelleration, suspension, cornering, roominess). Bottom line it is still reasonable as long as you stay with the entry level 2.5(no leather).If you are considering 3.5 after you add trac cntrl and abs, well IMHO you are better off with Maxima SE, only drawback is Maxima does not have ind rear susp. It does have abs,xenon headlights, spoiler, 17 in wheels standard, and since Maxima is not at this time selling as hotly as "THE NEW ALTIMA" it can be had for very close to what the 3.5 altima with abs, traction control is going for. But believe it or not the Altima 3.5 WILL leave the Maxima behind in a 0-60 run! Both same engines but it is true.

hvan3

There's a nice write up in the Nov 5th edition of the BusinessWeek. It's on page 107.

The author's comment about the interior...

"The interior of the Altima was a bit busy for my taste, whith it's two-tone trim (three if you opt for the cheap-looking wood-tone inserts--don't) and a sculpted plastic panel that starts at the windshield and ends in an oval for the audio and air conditioning controls. That said, all the controls are high on the console and easy to use. The instrument panel, with three deep pods backlit in orange, is the cabin's best feature".

Nothing was mentioned about "cheap plastic interior". All is well....

riez

When comparing Maxima to Altima, you have to compare the Maxima to the Altima 3.5 SE. You have to compare apples to apples, taking into account what comes standard and is available as an option.

Remember, the Altima 3.5 SE comes STANDARD with 17 inch alloy wheels and tires! And Xenon HID headlights are an OPTION, but only for the 3.5 SE.

You can option the 3.5 SE very, very close to the Maxima. And you get side curtain airbags and IRS. You give up being able to have a couple small things like power passenger seat and heated steering wheel. But if you really have to have these things, then maybe you should also consider the I-35 (e.g., the heated seats are front and rear versus front only in Altima 3.5 SE and Maxima).

One big difference is that Maxima SE can be had with 6-speed manual. And later this year the 6-speed manual Maxima SE can be had with optional helical limited slip differential (not available on automatic).

qgu

Having heard a lot about the new Altima, I decided to see it in person. So today I went to a local dealer. I have to admit it was disappointing. The styling is a little overdone. I would like to cut the long ugly nose by 5 inches and increase the width by 2 inches. When I looked at the sticker price of nearly $30K, I was speechless. The only thing I can remember now is that I said no thanks to the saleswoman when she asked me if I needed a test drive.

As a loyal Nissan owner, I always think Nissan first when comes to replace a vehicle. That was exactly the case when I purchased my last vehicle. I tested a Pathfinder first and eventually settled in an MDX. Too bad after owning 4 Nissans until the MDX, I could be turned away forever. I thought the number one selling point for a Nissan product was not extreme refinement, not high performance, not outstanding reliability but overall value. Looks like Nissan is moving away from that direction.