I think the Forester will move up in size. The big (pardon the pun) question is how much bigger? I, like you, hope the Forester doesn't get too big. I also think it be a worthwhile approach to do a regular size Forester and a "Grand" Forester, something like Suzuki does w/their Vitara & LX-L. In addition to the 3rd seat, the "grand" Forester could offer better towing #'s for those that require it.
this is NOT based on anything I "know" but I don't think they will make the Forester much bigger in the near future.
Since we are such a small company, they try to keep our model lines really different. If the put the Forester on the Legacy platform it would be direct competition for the Outback.
Hmm, so stretch the wheelbase about 2" and bring in the rear multilink suspension from the Legacy to open up that rear cargo area.
Seriously - I think the biggest upgrade the Outback got in 2000 was the extra space freed up by that suspension. My dad's Outback is far wider than my Forester in the cargo hold.
I was kind of surprised when the Impy did not get it, but space isn't as important on a WRX as it is on a Forester.
are all based upon many "common" parts. To say they're all variations upon one platform would not be too much of a stretch. So...
I can see the next Forester to still be (mainly) Impreza based, with a 2" increase in wheelbase, and using the Outback rear suspension. Also, if the new Forester is still to be produced in Japan, which I believe will be the case, then keeping it on the Japan-built Impreza platform really makes sense.
This also makes additional sense because the new '05 GM/Subaru SUV is to be (mainly) Outback based.
Well, not necessarily. True, the latest Legacy isn't quite as good as the previous one, but that one was also built in the US.
I think the drop in the ratings had more to do with the fact that it was a new model with some teething issues. Now that those are worked out, I bet it goes back up.
The current legacy is several bars above the previous generation (last gen was a un-inspiring car that nobody noticed, the new model is sooo much more attractive especially the sedans, and the chasis was as improved apon as the Impreza was in 2002). Its just as reliable as well, if not more so. The funny thing is the 2000 model has had less recalls than the 2001 model... (which was one recall btw)
himiler- You'd think that but then look at the Jeep Cherokee. Same basic design in production for 18 years and it's reliability was still below avg at the end of its run.
Just because it was still below average after 18 years doesn't mean it didn't improve! It was just "crappy" at the end of the cycle instead of "really crappy!" LOL!
I've been driving a '95 5spd Acura Integra which I love. Also leased a Ford Explorer which I only loved for the AWD and cargo capacity (hated everything else). I'm now looking at the WRX which seems to be the perfect compromise.
I do have some concerns that I'll list:
- turbo - gas mileage - reliability
TURBO: I've never owned a turbo before. I've heard that there could be maintenance issues. Also, are there any problems with turbos and cold winters (the NY/NJ kind, not the Minnesota kind)!
GAS MILEAGE: From reading the boards it seems that it gets better after break-in - with AWD and Turbo I expect less than the integra but more than the explorer.
RELIABILITY: Anyone have any experience with similar Subarus?
Turbo - I would say that modern turbos are far more reliable than those from 15 years ago. Though my dealer recommended cool-down for about a minute or so, I don't see any mention of it in the manual. There are differing opinions on this matter. You might want to check out www.i-club.com for a larger sampling of Subaru owners.
Gas Mileage - I just got out of my break-in. I've been getting about 22-23MPG in mixed local/hiway driving. With any luck and some restraint of my right foot, the mileage may improve a little.
Reliability - Subaru enjoys a pretty good reputation as far as reliability is concerned. The WRX is a new model so there's not much data.
I doubt the WRX wagon will match the cargo capacity of your Explorer, but I suspect it'll be a heck of a lot more fun to drive. The largest item I've been able to get into my wagon is a 27" TV (with original box). Anything bigger would have to be strapped to the roof.
After reading all the great feedback on the WRX I think I'm ready to buy. I live in NJ near Manhattan - any recommendations on how to get the best price or am I going to pay the same regardless because of the limited production and strong interest in this car?
I was thinking of trying Autobytel.com or carsdirect.com.
Subaru has been building turbos for a very long time. That they brought them back to the demanding US market (i.e. customers that drive turbos hard and put them away wet) says a lot about how much faith they have in the new WRX.
I just picked up my WRX wagon yesterday (I love it!!) and was presented with the option to buy the extended warranty. It was a factory (Subaru) extension for 3 extra years and 44,000 extra miles making the total coverage 6 years/80,000 miles. The price was quoted at $1184. Is this a fair price? Is it worth getting the warranty? I want to keep the car for as long as possible so I'd like the warranty but I feel I might be getting ripped off price wise. Any advice?
I paid about that much 3 years ago for a 5 yr/100K with zero deductible. Whatever the list price is , you should be able to get a third off by bargaining. As with any insurance its piece of mind. I have 55K on my 98 Legacy and have used almost $300 from my extended warranty already. I would have to say that if anything goes wrong with your turbo, you just lucked out with the extended warranty as they are very expensive to fix! Lets face it, even somethings simple like a sensor can set you back several hundred already. Some people say use the money and invest it and you will make enough to cover your repairs, maybe, but I'm more likely to spend it before it happens!
Knock on wood, I haven't needed the extended warranty on my 97 OBS nor my wife's 99 OB. Both at around 50k miles. You'll never know if you really need it though.
Another thing, check the fine print and find out what's not covered by the warranty.
Please, I need more WRX wagon pictures, and hopefully you current owners already have some available. Just post your links to on-line sites please... thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou!
Thanks, Bob. I'm looking to upgrade the wheel/tire combo to 17" Dunlop 5000 & Prodrive p7's in silver sometime in Feb or Mar. The Bridgestones compromise the handling capabilities of the WRX too much. I understand from a cost perspective why SOA went w/them though. I will keep them and the original wheels as backups. I also plan on putting the sedan's 20mm rear sway bar on. The remaining mods (I know, famous last words) would be a K&N filter, removing the silencer box to open up the breathing some more, and a Cobb cat-back exhaust system. Should be about 25 to 30hp more (at least by the butt o'meter) :-)
Thanks for posting! I had seen your previous photos Juice, but was frustrated that there weren't more publicly available photos of wagons in different colors, which I think seriously affects the appearance of the wagon. I like black, blue, and silver but wanted more visual data... for platonic purposes only of course
I summon my great will-power to resist getting a WRX wagon as I just got a 2001 forester this past december, but if there's an STi wagon coming out next year... well... I'm smoked.
Serge: Didn't know that about the size offering over @ TireRack. I was hoping of the 215/45x17 that you speak of. I may have to check w/the gang at NW i-club. BTW, TireRack now has an official affiliation w/i-club, just in case anyone wants to know.
Juice: Sorry, I missed the chat. I have no defense other then I was outside in the glorious NW summer weather and just spaced. Wasn't even driving the WRX. The P7s cost $259 per wheel over at TireRack, so $1036 before shipping. The tires are about $90 so I think at least $1500 total w/shipping. Not too bad when I compare w/the $3000 for BBS wheels alone through SOA. I know the BBS are special wheels built for SOA but there not worth that much more...most importantly to me and my wallet. :-) I've been going back and forth between the P1s and the P7s but I think I prefer the cleaner look of the 7's.
Dennis: I went over and visited the 3-series wagon topic over in Station Wagon forum. They didn't take too kindly to Edmunds' review...big surprise. I posted a little tidbit about it and got the typical Bimmer arrogance like: "Since you own a Subaru, I wonder why you bother to post on a BMW topic", etc. Oh well, I started to get offended and then I realized that I have nothing to defend or be offended about and smugly sped away in my WRX wagon (in my mind, as I was at work) laughing all the way to the bank...and back. :-)
Stephen, I think Sube owner's overall are probably the most open-minded about other cars.
Ask Loosh (lucien Subaru Crew) about the instructor from his BMW performance training. Loosh drove his OB on the track. A a few months later, the instructor bought one because he was so impressed.
Owning both, I can say they are totally different rides. For the money, the Subaru is definitely better performance value. However, the BMW rides great, handles great, looks great, babes love it, it's just not as fast and costs a bunch more. However, I was able to get a real good deal on a BMW 5 series station wagon demo and got it for not much more than a new WRX--
Serge: Yeah, I saw that Mike Shield's prices are better but I was thinking about the convenience of TireRack as an entire pkg incl having TireRack ship tires/wheels to installer in my area. I just bring my car there when they are in and pick it up after installation/alignment, etc.
I saw the Speedlines but don't like the style as well as the P7s. It's all subjective, of course.
Dennis: I totally agree about Subaru owners. I also find that they have really done their homework before buying a Soob and consequently are quite well-versed in the pros/cons of other vehicles. I really love being a part of the Subaru family...ok, I'll stop, gettin' all teary eyed and stuff. :-)
I can't believe I'm actually writing this, but after driving a WRX 5spd. sedan and then a 4AT wagon back-to-back, I've got to admit that I like the wagon more, particularly because of the slushbox. It's a really smart auto(!), and the car felt less "busy" on the highway. It's so easy to set the car up for a corner by just tapping the selector down to "3", and then flick the wheel and mash the gas--whammo! The car is so tossable, it's like a roller coaster off its rails.
From a standstill, there's about 1 extra second of lag before it winds up, but once it hits boost it pulls like a bullet train--very smooth. The manual shifter doesn't quite have the same quality feel that my Acura's shifter has, which, sad to say, has probably spoiled me.
I turned 30 yesterday, so I could be getting lazy in my old age. Or maybe I've completely lost my mind. Can anyone tell me if the short shift kit makes the manual significantly better? I'm able to buy a WRX for Invoice+2%, which seems like a good deal. The dealer tells me that the car just isn't selling in the Northeast like SOA had hoped. I guess they're getting lots of visits from the 18-22 year old "Gran Turismo" crowd, but not much other traffic. Go figure!
Ok. After test driving a blue WRX wagon and reading posts here, I am interested. But has anyone taken a few hundred mile trip on the highway at say 75, with cruise control on (so you are not goosing the little beast to pass every few minutes) and recorded your mileage? Please let me know.
I just put 245 miles of all highway on my new wrx 5 speed wagon. Most of it was on interstate at 70 mph but about 50 of it was 2 lane at 60. I now have about 700 miles on the car. I was pretty happy with the 24 mpg I got. I suspect it will get better.
Comments
Stephen
Then again, if they went big I'd just get a Rex wagon.
-juice
Stephen
Since we are such a small company, they try to keep our model lines really different. If the put the Forester on the Legacy platform it would be direct competition for the Outback.
They may do it, but it would surprise me.
Thanks!
Patti
Seriously - I think the biggest upgrade the Outback got in 2000 was the extra space freed up by that suspension. My dad's Outback is far wider than my Forester in the cargo hold.
I was kind of surprised when the Impy did not get it, but space isn't as important on a WRX as it is on a Forester.
-juice
-juice
I can see the next Forester to still be (mainly) Impreza based, with a 2" increase in wheelbase, and using the Outback rear suspension. Also, if the new Forester is still to be produced in Japan, which I believe will be the case, then keeping it on the Japan-built Impreza platform really makes sense.
This also makes additional sense because the new '05 GM/Subaru SUV is to be (mainly) Outback based.
Bob
-juice
Bob
Also, if they don't want a smallish-for-an-SUV 2.0l turbo in there, as some have hinted, the new engine, at least, may be made in the USA.
-juice
just like it did in the Legacies. (ref: Cons.Rep.)
The only Japanese subie remaining will be the Impreza.
Perfect, just the excuse I need to get the WRX :-)
-Bart
I think the drop in the ratings had more to do with the fact that it was a new model with some teething issues. Now that those are worked out, I bet it goes back up.
-juice
I think it's rated "average" now, while the '99 was "better than average".
-juice
-Frank P.
Stephen
I do have some concerns that I'll list:
- turbo
- gas mileage
- reliability
TURBO: I've never owned a turbo before. I've heard that there could be maintenance issues. Also, are there any problems with turbos and cold winters (the NY/NJ kind, not the Minnesota kind)!
GAS MILEAGE: From reading the boards it seems that it gets better after break-in - with AWD and Turbo I expect less than the integra but more than the explorer.
RELIABILITY: Anyone have any experience with similar Subarus?
Thanks!
Brian
Turbo - I would say that modern turbos are far more reliable than those from 15 years ago. Though my dealer recommended cool-down for about a minute or so, I don't see any mention of it in the manual. There are differing opinions on this matter. You might want to check out www.i-club.com for a larger sampling of Subaru owners.
Gas Mileage - I just got out of my break-in. I've been getting about 22-23MPG in mixed local/hiway driving. With any luck and some restraint of my right foot, the mileage may improve a little.
Reliability - Subaru enjoys a pretty good reputation as far as reliability is concerned. The WRX is a new model so there's not much data.
I doubt the WRX wagon will match the cargo capacity of your Explorer, but I suspect it'll be a heck of a lot more fun to drive. The largest item I've been able to get into my wagon is a 27" TV (with original box). Anything bigger would have to be strapped to the roof.
Hope this helps,
Phil
I was thinking of trying Autobytel.com or carsdirect.com.
Thanks,
Brian
-juice
...at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern. Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/subaruchat.html
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
-Quik-
As with any insurance its piece of mind. I have 55K on my 98 Legacy and have used almost $300 from my extended warranty already. I would have to say that if anything goes wrong with your turbo, you just lucked out with the extended warranty as they are very expensive to fix! Lets face it, even somethings simple like a sensor can set you back several hundred already. Some people say use the money and invest it and you will make enough to cover your repairs, maybe, but I'm more likely to spend it before it happens!
-juice
Another thing, check the fine print and find out what's not covered by the warranty.
Dennis
Later...AH
Perrito
http://members.i-club.com/ViewMemberPics.cfm?MemberID=4854
Stephen
Oh, BTW, the car's nice too.
Bob
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1400062&a=11402573&f=0&sp=0
Most are close-ups intended to show one thing or another (wheels, turbo, ground clearance, etc).
-juice
Stephen
I can see why 16" are standard too. My Z3 buddy has bent 3 rims in DC's bad streets.
-juice
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/dunlop/du_s5000.jsp#Comments
I will probably get those for Susan's Legacy in 16" when the RE92s die.
:-)
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/spin/46587/article.html
Dennis
Thanks for posting! I had seen your previous photos Juice, but was frustrated that there weren't more publicly available photos of wagons in different colors, which I think seriously affects the appearance of the wagon. I like black, blue, and silver but wanted more visual data... for platonic purposes only of course
I summon my great will-power to resist getting a WRX wagon as I just got a 2001 forester this past december, but if there's an STi wagon coming out next year... well... I'm smoked.
thanks again, perrito
Juice: Sorry, I missed the chat. I have no defense other then I was outside in the glorious NW summer weather and just spaced. Wasn't even driving the WRX. The P7s cost $259 per wheel over at TireRack, so $1036 before shipping. The tires are about $90 so I think at least $1500 total w/shipping. Not too bad when I compare w/the $3000 for BBS wheels alone through SOA. I know the BBS are special wheels built for SOA but there not worth that much more...most importantly to me and my wallet. :-) I've been going back and forth between the P1s and the P7s but I think I prefer the cleaner look of the 7's.
Dennis: I went over and visited the 3-series wagon topic over in Station Wagon forum. They didn't take too kindly to Edmunds' review...big surprise. I posted a little tidbit about it and got the typical Bimmer arrogance like: "Since you own a Subaru, I wonder why you bother to post on a BMW topic", etc. Oh well, I started to get offended and then I realized that I have nothing to defend or be offended about and smugly sped away in my WRX wagon (in my mind, as I was at work) laughing all the way to the bank...and back. :-)
Stephen
Stephen
Ask Loosh (lucien Subaru Crew) about the instructor from his BMW performance training. Loosh drove his OB on the track. A a few months later, the instructor bought one because he was so impressed.
Dennis
http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3173
Mike Shields has the P7s for 225:
http://www.spdusa.com/prod03.htm
don't know how they compare in shipping prices though
I saw the Speedlines but don't like the style as well as the P7s. It's all subjective, of course.
Dennis: I totally agree about Subaru owners. I also find that they have really done their homework before buying a Soob and consequently are quite well-versed in the pros/cons of other vehicles. I really love being a part of the Subaru family...ok, I'll stop, gettin' all teary eyed and stuff. :-)
Stephen
Stephen
Bob
Bob
From a standstill, there's about 1 extra second of lag before it winds up, but once it hits boost it pulls like a bullet train--very smooth. The manual shifter doesn't quite have the same quality feel that my Acura's shifter has, which, sad to say, has probably spoiled me.
I turned 30 yesterday, so I could be getting lazy in my old age. Or maybe I've completely lost my mind. Can anyone tell me if the short shift kit makes the manual significantly better? I'm able to buy a WRX for Invoice+2%, which seems like a good deal. The dealer tells me that the car just isn't selling in the Northeast like SOA had hoped. I guess they're getting lots of visits from the 18-22 year old "Gran Turismo" crowd, but not much other traffic. Go figure!
Thanks again.
But has anyone taken a few hundred mile trip on the highway at say 75, with cruise
control on (so you are not goosing the little beast to pass every few minutes) and
recorded your mileage? Please let me know.