Subaru Impreza WRX Wagon

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Comments

  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    If ya'll are on the fence (hey I actually say that much to my children's chagrin) - don't take it for a test drive. It'll be harder to resist!

    ;~}

    Patti
  • strider98strider98 Member Posts: 89
    I've driven the automatic and the MT, and each time I had to go watch the "Fast & the Furious" afterward in order to match that high.

    I have been debating this purchase for a while now, and finally I've come to realize that I have only 2 decisions left: wagon or sedan, and auto or MT. Like the styling of the sedan a tiny bit better, but after seeing what Stephen has done with his wagon that is no longer a big deal.

    The real sticky question is auto v. stick. I realize that the auto has a different AWD system (thanks to AH), but I don't think it's worth the extra $. I do drive in Houston, which at times has some monster traffic on some of the highways (read: avoid I-10 like the plague). An auto might be easier on those roads, but I really don't have many traffic problems driving to work. No, the real concern I am facing right now is that I am fairly new to driving a stick (occasionally in the last 2 years). My big question is, is this a tough transmission to get experienced with? Secondly (and easily as important), is this a tough transmission? I just know that I'll probably grind the gears enough to make the Soobie mechanic wince in pain.

    Thanks in advance for any help,

    Seth
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    I have only really driven a stick once (a friend taught me and let me drive his for a day). I decided to go with the WRX stick anyway. All the car reviews state that the stick is the preffered way to go (even though there will be people who will debate this).

    The WRX was my first stick, and so far I have no complaints. Occasionally I will hit traffic comming into work, but have gotten used to it. Once broken in, the stick is easy to use and shift. Reverse can be a pain though. It will take a couple weeks to get used to it though. Driving manual is a great deal of fun.
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    The WRX MT isn't too bad to get experience with, its not the the easiest either. The clutch is a little heavier than a novice would probably like plus the need to rev up a little to get a decent launch. But compared to some things I have driven , like 1970s Triumphs, the WRX MT is a dream! Though not as goood as some other Japanese brands.

    I learned stick on my dads Triumph Spitfire and aunts MB diesel (the city bus was quicker than this thing plus the handbrake is in the wrong place!). The first time I drove a Civic or Corolla, it was like, now why the heck would anyone ever buy a manual transmission made by a European company!
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    FWIW - I've been driving a stick for years, and I find in my WRX that it has a good feel and you "know" what gear your putting the vehicle in because it feels (for the lack of a better word) "sure". It doesn't float into place. I think that makes it a bit easier to learn on.

    Good Luck at your appointment and let us know how it goes!

    Patti
  • WarpDriveWarpDrive Member Posts: 506
    my opinion on the WRX manual tranny is that it is not a hard transmission to learn on. The clutch seems a bit tougher than some other cars but it's still very easy to drive. At first, just take your time and try to be smooth during shifts and takeoff. Within a couple of weeks, you'll be doing ok. Go for the manual, you'll thank yourself later!

    Ray
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Seth,

    If you aren't in bumper-to-bumper traffic everyday and don't need to multitask while driving, then I'd say go with the manual. Don't worry about being green to driving a manual -- you'll learn quickly once it's an everyday necessity.

    There's really nothing quite like the feeling of rowing through your own gears while blasting through some twisties.

    One other thought -- if you ever browse through i-club, every now and then you'll read about an auto owner wanting to convert to stick. I don't believe I've seen the reverse case yet.

    Ken
  • hunter001hunter001 Member Posts: 851
    None of those Auto owners wanting to convert to stick are Auto-WRX owners. Those are owners of old 1990 Legacies and so on. Totally different beast.

    I think Seth should be allowed to make his own decision. What works for you may not work for him and vice-versa.

    If my Auto-WRX were totalled today, I would go right back and buy another Auto-WRX. No manual for me. Don't need it and never miss it.

    The only exception to my re-buying my Auto-WRX would be if the Mitsubishi Lancer EVO VII came in a wagon format. It comes with a Torsen differential in the front, Active differentials in the center (like the Auto-WRX) and rear, to ensure superb handling. I would buy it in the blink of an eye. But since it does not, I will stick to the Auto-WRX Wagon, which is useful to blast along curvy mountainous roads while functioning wonderfully in gridlock traffic. Never miss the Stick-shift and don't even want it.

    Later...AH
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    Glad it works for you. :-) I do believe you're the minority and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that (I've been there and know, LOL).

    I take exception w/your comment though: "I think Seth should be allowed to make his own decision. What works for you may not work for him and vice-versa" Nobody was suggesting otherwise in the proceeding posts. Methinks you're a bit touchy on the auto/manual subject. Let it go... :-)

    Stephen
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    AH,


    I completely agree with you that it's Seth's choice. I was only providing him with my opinion, not an ultimatum! As a MT Subaru owner, I can only give opinions of what I know, right? ;-)


    Actually, my comment about auto-to-manual conversions weren't just about the WRX, but Subarus in general. While you're probably right that we haven't seen any conversions with the WRX, my guess is that the relative newness of the WRX in the US is the constraint. I don't believe it would make sense to perform such major surgery on a vehicle that's only a year old! However, I do believe that it's just a matter of time until we do hear of an ambitous WRX owner wanting to do a tranny swap.


    In fact, I think you'll recall one owner asking about it not too long ago:

    http://forums.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=177200


    So, am I wrong? Has anyone heard of a MT to AT swap on a Subie? Just curious.


    Ken

  • robmarchrobmarch Member Posts: 482
    I hear about these all of the time, and the answer is always - it's cheaper to just get another car. I do tend to see driving enthusiasts switch from automatic to manual often, and on every web forum I've been on. I know only one person personally who hasn't raved about the switch, and he prefers to do other things while driving and isn't really much of a performance enthusiast. He got a good deal on the manual, and took it.

    Having said that, I'm sure AH is a driving enthusiast, and respect his preference for the Auto WRX. I don't even look at cars that don't have a manual for myself, because I enjoy the control of the manual.
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Usually it's a function of (a) finding oneself doing a greater percentage of one's driving in heavy traffic or (b) finding one's knees aren't what they used to be.

    I know of at least one poster to these forums that's considering it.

    Ed
  • hunter001hunter001 Member Posts: 851
    I know of at least one poster to these forums that's considering it.

    There are tons of people in i-club who complain about the weakness of the Manual transmission in the WRX, some of whom have already ditched the WRX and are moving onto other brands, specifically due to this weakness. There was even a poster who completely stripped his 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears after doing an aggressive launch on a Manual Transmissioned WRX. Unfortunately, this guy's "knee will never be what it used to be" every time he drives this car ever again !! He was never seen at the drag-strip for a long time after that "launch". He replaced his transmission and has since sold his Manual-WRX.

    There was only one recorded case of a person with an Auto trans WRX reporting a failure. This person RACED his Auto-WRX, indulged in all kinds of abuse (including regular drag-racing) did a lot of power enhancing mods (350hp +), Nitrous, brake-torque launched his car from every stoplight, and finally after almost 50,000 miles (well after his warranty period in his 2002 WRX !!), the tranny called it a day. A rarest of the rare case. All other Auto-WRX owners including RiftsWRX, padre, igotwrxed etc., who indulge in extreme power mods and races their WRX everytime (street racing, track racing, drag racing, auto-crossing) have not reported anything un-toward even after well over a year of extreme abuse. This transmission is bullet-proof, if that is a criteria for a purchase.

    Later...AH
  • strider98strider98 Member Posts: 89
    You mention one person who has wrecked his manual tranny and then one person who has wrecked his AT. Both were abusing their transmissions and both paid the consequences. How is it that one is a rarest of the rare case and the other is not?

    I'll tell you why. It isn't necessarily because the AT is tougher. A larger percetage of those that own a MT-WRX are gonna soup up their cars and race them than those that own the AT-WRX. Therefore there is going to be a larger # of MT drivers that wreck there trannies than of AT drivers. Does that mean that the MT is junk? Absolutely not. If the AT responded as well to mods as the MT did, AND if there were as many AT-WRXs as the other kind, then you would see the numbers would be more similar.

    JMO
    Seth
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    I have a MT and love it. Have only heard of one failure. This was from the dealer's shop.

    Aparently this kid bought a MT WRX, did not break it in (was racing it from the get-go). Modified it significantly, was drag racing it. Finally ended up blowing out his MT after doing one too many 5000 RPM clutch drops!

    This is why, even though there have been many failures of the MT WRX, I am not worried about it. As many MT failures there are with the WRX, there are a significant percentage more kids abusing the hell out of the car (face it, a great deal of teenagers do buy this car!).

    I currently do not plan to upgrade the power on the car, and do not race it. Just use it for the occasional fun and commuting. This is why I am not worried about my MT. :-)
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    "I know of at least one poster to these forums that's considering it."

    Ed-
    Chalk one more to the list.

    Guys-
    Should I buy a WRX today or whenever down the road, it's going to be an AT. And,... it is because it has to be.
    Let some poor soul enjoy the WRX with the AT (not by choice) without having to hear the MT has a bigger gun vis-a-versa debate :)

    -Dave
  • hunter001hunter001 Member Posts: 851
    It is not one person who wrecked his MT....it is tons of guys who have wrecked their MTs with one specific individual who COMPLETELY STRIPPED his 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears. A particularly nasty example among a plethora of other WRX manual transmission failures. None of these were high-mileage vehicles either. If you want, I will dig up those posts from folks who have had MT failures. Too numerous to list on one page. All of these abused MT WRXs with fairly low mileage, will land up on the market for re-sale and God help the person who buys it. Basically it comes across as if the WRX manual transmission can take 227hp and 217 torque with "normal" driving. Anything over that and/or too much "enthusiastic" driving is basically asking for trouble. The STi 6-speed however, has got a lot of reserve capacity for taking on additional power/abuse, but the WRX manual transmission ain't no STi 6-speed.

    There has been ONLY ONE...repeat ONLY ONE person who has ever wrecked his Auto Transmission in his WRX..that too after 50,000 miles of pure un-adulterated abuse with power raised upto 350+ hp along with an inordinately high amount of brake-torqued launches AND excessive use of Nitrous AND drag-racing with (and winning against) Corvettes/CamaroV8s/Mustang Cobras. After such extreme abuse over such a large number of miles, something has to give. Hell, even race-prepped cars won't take that much abuse over 10s of thousands of miles. There are quite a few other big powered Auto-WRXs (300+ wheel HP) running around with regular and extreme abuse, but none of them have failed yet...some have even crossed the 50K mile marker.

    Hope this clears up the confusion my previous post may have caused.

    Later...AH
  • twrxtwrx Member Posts: 647
    Ok, its back, the great MT vs AT debate. Time to weigh in. I have been driving for 33 years and have owned all MT cars mostly Hondas. First Subaru was a '98 Forester. Lousy clutch, needed repair twice. I now have a 2002 WRX with MT short throw. No problems at all and the clutch and gearshift is a good as the best of my Hondas (which was a Delsol). I will replace it when the time comes with another MT Subaru.
    TWRX
  • hunter001hunter001 Member Posts: 851
    Check the link below, from a poster whose 2002 WRX Manual Transmission failed TODAY.....first gear COMPLETELY SHATTERED.


    http://forums.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=0ec5abc58bf3b888e3c12f29fac77073&threadid=224828


    I don't even want to try to list the huge numbers of WRX MT failures that have preceded this. This guy has titled his account as "Another Blown Tranny" and the thing that I find strange is that nowadays such posts don't even raise any eyebrows. It is almost as if everyone EXPECTS it to happen.


    Later...AH

  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    You are a piece of work! The guys you are talking about over in the i-club are abusing the crap out of their MT WRXs. The guys that I know of who are constantly drag-strip racing their AT WRXs have installed torque-stall converters. Kind of skewers the failure results you're attempting to report on to bolster your AT is better than MT in the WRX B.S!! Give it up. On second thought (bear in mind, I love my Mom) go argue w/my Mom. You'll both have fun going off on tangents and trying to get the last word in! LOL.

    Chuckling softly in Seattle,
    Stephen
  • corkfishcorkfish Member Posts: 537
    Auto transmission drivers seem to have a never ending inferiority complex. I'm sick of hearing over and over from some of these guys that the auto is just as good as the manual (LOL). It isn't. Get a grip and move on.
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    its the rowing the gears AND using the clutch which is fun for me which is why I don't like these Tiptronic etc systems. I love my MT WRX and I love my AT GT but they are very different cars.
    Some like strawberry ice cream, some like chocolate, one isn't better than the other. They are just different. Every person to their own taste!
    People who post on iclub or here can hardly be considered representative of anything!
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    at +400hp! Also, he is racing at the track all the time. With that much stress, and most likely abuse, no wonder why! If I was to upgrade the WRX to +400hp, I would look to change out the tranny as well. I doubt it was ever meant to handle +400hp!

    On the other hand, may recommend an auto WRX to my brother, especially if they put in the auto-stick. It seems once you have slammed down on the gas a few times, the car really livens up! ;-)
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    corkfish Aug 3, 2002 11:49pm

    John-
    I drive an AT and I don't have an inferior complex. :p
    If my (abused) knees can hold up and I can get my coordination coordinated at driving LHD MT from RHD MT, I certainly would.

    When I got my license in the US, signed up for some lessons with the MT. After 'bout 5 hours of Samba, the instructor pleaded "Drive an AT pleeeeeze". :-)

    -Dave
  • hunter001hunter001 Member Posts: 851
    I think the corkfish fellow just indulged in an emotional response. LOL. Forgive him, since he knows not what he speaks !! ;)

    Later...AH
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'm a die hard AT fan, but I would hesitate to get the AT version of the WRX. It just doesn't have enough low end torque to support the AT. You need something with a lot more torque to support it well. I've driven several AT WRXs and raced em v. drives in the MT WRXs and they can't hold a candle to em. Heck on anything but a straight run, my AT XT6 would probably kick the butt of the AT WRX!

    Though if you are driving in traffic, you might want the AT. Either way the WRX is a great car.

    -mike
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    Well put. If the WRX had more torque, especially down low in the RPM band, the AT might be a better alternative than it is, AWD system differences notwithstanding. :-)

    Stephen
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I'm just glad we're arguing about different WRX flavors, not about other makes. Now, if SoA would develop a H6 Turbo WRX with the 6-speed STi tranny or VTD, then we'd all be happy campers!

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes but put all that in a Legacy or Forester, as we have 2 kids now and need the space!

    The AT may benefit even more than the MT from the Vishnu upgrades, given the extra low end torque.

    -juice
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    Thought it was interesting that the new Mercedes E-class's front headlights look like the identical design of the Impressa's


    http://www.mbusa.com/brand/index.jsp

  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    ...or was it Subaru who decided to give the Impreza round headlights because MB had been using them for some time?

    Ken
  • hunter001hunter001 Member Posts: 851
    I think the Porsche 911 was the "inspiration" for the Impreza's round headlights. Even the stance bears a certain resemblance, not to mention similarities in the engine layout.

    Later...AH
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It does Kevin, especially with the top half used for the turn signal. I do think Mercedes worked out the fenders a bit better, though.

    -juice
  • strider98strider98 Member Posts: 89
    why is it that when someone posts for the MT and against the AT it's biased or inflammatory and when someone posts the opposite way, it's gospel? Perhaps I need to explain the letters JMO: Just My Opinion.

    It's not because anyone is trouncing the AT, because no one here is or means to (usually). I'll just finish Kevin's thought from post 2272: let's try finding an example of MT failure that is not attributed to 300-400hp 5k rpm clutch drops. If you're going to have that kind of power, upgrade to the STi 6-speed.

    I'll shut up now, thanks for the rant

    Seth
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    in the subies are weak, far more failures in them v. ATs. Why? The tranny is a slightly beefed up version found in the 198X 80hp Subaru GL! Other contributing factors: MT drivers in general will push them harder and/or race em more than AT drivers, kids like MTs and are generally more abusive on cars.

    -mike
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    don't buy the MT is weak in the WRX theory. The second part of your post regarding abuse, I do agree with. Besides (LOL) you've already admitted your in general bias for the AT in cars.

    Stephen
  • twrxtwrx Member Posts: 647
    Think I heard that 2002 production was only about 20% AT WRX's. Not as many ATs to fail! Other than Hunter (HEH, HEH) who in the USA has bought one!

    Sorry just trying to lighten it up.

    TWRX
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    Someone posted the numbers before, it was something like 10-15% of WRXs that were sold were Manuals. Also, I believe there were more wagon manuals sold than sedans. Even though the Wagons are super fast and handle well, I will go ahead and make an assumption that a sedan is more likely to be abused than a wagon due to teenagers and racers liking the ever so slight edge in weight, stiffness, and looks. Before you flame me, it is verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyy slight, and looks are a matter of opinion, just that many teenagers do not want to be perceived as driving mom's wagon!
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It's not rumor that the 5MT is almost exactly the same as the ones in the 198X GLs putting out 80hp! I think if Colin shows up on here he can verify that. How could you say that it's not weak when it was designed for a car with 80-100hp!!!! The STi 6MT on the other hand is not the same base tranny. Believe what you want.

    In either case I'd get the WRX with the MT cause you NEED an MT in it in order to keep in the rev band.

    -mike
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    Actually, I have an AT wagon; bought it cause my wife may need to drive it at times...no problems, fast, fun AND convenient...carries LOTS of stuff. Sure, there's some lag low down, like the MTs, but once it hits 3000 rpm, watch out.
  • robmarchrobmarch Member Posts: 482
    if you replace "Manual" with "Automatic" in your post, I agree with you. Is that what you meant?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    FWIW, if it's 80/20, then we should have 4 times more MT failures. If it's only 3.7 times as much, that would make the MT failure rate lower.

    But never mind that, the failures we're talking about are heavily modified cars that were raced and abused. If you're making 350hp you should not expect a stock tranny to withstand it.

    Generally, though, Subaru's automatics are very robust and have a very low rate of failure. Manual trannys are also good, it's the clutch that people complain about.

    -juice
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    That is what happens when you try posting right before you go to bed! ;-)

    In post 2287 - Please replace Manual with Automatic. The Manual WRX sells about 6 to 1 compared with Automatic WRXs sold.
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    I remember seeing this upgrade in paphlete for subaru add-ons. I was wondering to myself why anyone would need it since the WRX is a performance car, now I see.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    stephen,

    sorry but paisan is correct. the 5MT's case is the same from the pushrod 1.8L days...

    there's only so much you can do to increase the strength of a gearbox on the inside before physically larger gears and a correspondingly larger case is the only result.

    -Colin
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    if Subaru is including it on their 2.0L turbo, I am not too worried about it. Again, it seems the people that blow the tranny's up are the ones that race the car with a souped up engine producing in excess of 50% more power. Over on the iclub site, there are plenty of people using stock MTs with souped up engines, who are not having any problems whatsoever.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    um yeah, I've been on the iClub just a tiny bit. ;-)

    it's your money, and I wouldn't disagree that at stock power levels and driven reasonably the transmission is unsuited for the task. it isn't "robust" though, far from it.

    -Colin
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    Would it make a difference with an STi clutch?
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    How come many people are upgrading the power on the manuals and racing them that are not having any problems with the stock? I would bet you that for every person who has a problem with a blown tranny, there are at least 2 people who use the manual tranny to race, yet have no problems with them? Huh?

    From the way you guys describe the MT, it sounds like that if you normally do any type of agressive driving, the MT will go on you. This is simply not the case.
  • robmarchrobmarch Member Posts: 482
    a firmer, harder gripping clutch would be worse for the tranny, as it would transfer more of the jolts without slipping, forcing the tranny to absorb the energy. I'm assuming this is what the STi clutch is.
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