Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

jmonroe

A story about customer service:

Last night neither Mrs. j or myself were very hungry but wanted something to eat, so we went to Chick-fil-A. She likes the chicken salad wrap, I like their signature chicken sandwich. As a senior you are entitled to a free drink, but if you order a combo meal they have to ring up the items separately. This place is jammed packed and as we are at the register I see that a booth just opened so I tell Mrs. j I'm going to go claim it before we have to eat standing up. I get the condiments and sit down. No sooner than I sit down Mrs. j shows up with a "cone" (never saw that before) which I assumed is the marker so that someone can deliver your order when it is ready. Mrs. j says, "look at the receipt. I don't think it is right". It wasn't we were charged $1.78 for the drinks. No sooner than I say that, a young high school age girl brings the tray with our order. I show here the receipt and she says she'll take care of it. She starts to walk away and I ask her if she needs my credit card to do the cancellation and she says, "if you want me do it like that I can but I can just give you the money back in cash if that is OK with you". I told her OK and she brings back $1.80. As I'm reaching into my pocket to give her 2 cents she tells me not to bother, she has more customers to get meals delivered.

This Chick-fil-A is run so efficiently I can't believe it. The kids they have working there actually seem to enjoy what they are doing, not just putting in their time. You have to see it to believe it. They come by and ask how the meal is, can I get you a refill, more napkins, more ketchup, you name it and they are trying to help you. I'm sure this is why they are always very busy and their drive through looks like a highway with a light that has malfunctioned but they have several kids out there taking orders before the cars get to the order station.

This is the only Chick-fil-A that I go to so maybe this is how they are all run but I doubt it. I don't go to very many fast food places but what I saw in the past none of them operate like this.

It would not surprise me too much if the next thing this Chick-fil-A does is to implement call-ahead to alleviate the congestion with seating.

We have been so conditioned to poor service over the years that when we get real service, we are overwhelmed. I know I am.

jmonroe

andres3

stickguy said:

sounds like technically, yes. once they hit the criteria you can file. Probably won't help his case any.

At that point, sounds like Caddy will just dig in harder, and hope that he just gets so fed up that the car gets traded in elsewhere and GG just goes away.

odd thing with this car though. Assuming they did actually fix it correctly, and can get it back together right, the car could be good as new (as opposed to some cars that go through this, where the underlying problem never does get resolved). so the next owner might not get stuck with a dog!

In another post @stickguy also mentions this:

I think their business model is to just wear you down until you give up, and bail out. Not likely too many people like you who have the resources, and willingness, to fight this to the end.
_________

This is probably GM's business model. And if you think it's a hassle and inconvenience to GG, just imagine how much greater the problem would be for the typical JOE that can only afford a Chevy!

This model of fighting and delaying lemon law claims is probably much more effective for the typical Chevy owner than the typical Cadillac owner, since the latter would generally have greater financial means and resources. Imagine if this was your only method of transportation, and you relied upon it to get to work every day! Also Chevy doesn't automatically give out loaners.

I have a feeling they get a lot of people to say "mercy" and wave the white flag with these techniques.

andres3

ab348 said:

stickguy said:

fight to the death. They messed (again, and again!) with the wrong man.

I think their business model is to just wear you down until you give up, and bail out. Not likely too many people like you who have the resources, and willingness, to fight this to the end.

Please advise of the car manufacturer who will cheerfully write a refund cheque upon request of a dissatisfied customer.

We are back to the same tired old generalization about a manufacturer based upon one individual's reporting of his experience.

Have you talked to people that say they'd never buy another "insert Big 3 brand here?" I have talked to several, and almost always the story goes back to a bad ownership experience. Not bad marketing, or prestige, or snobbery, but a bad previous ownership experience.

Another way (if you've never owned a Big 3 car) to be disappointed with a car maker is to have a bad rental car experience.

My wife admitted she was impressed with how the '16 Kia drives, feels, and has performed. Her view is/was very negative towards Kia/Hyundai. The reason for this is the crap they made in the 80's and 90's. Some of which is from a friend of hers buying a cheap Accent/Excel/Elantra - who knows or remembers the exact name? way back when, but also from a Kia Rio/Sephia rentals way back when. Those cars came off as garbage, even to a this Neon owner (I had a Kia rental way back when I was still in the Neon too, and that left a poor impression).

ab348

driver100 said:

All good points, but, I am sure the 2018s won't be out until at least October and how could I get buy until then? If they give me another 4% off there won't be enough profit in the car for them. It might be nice if they gave me the auto braking system package at cost for my trouble.

Because I wanted to buy from that dealer, and I used their price for the insurance company, they have had my $80k for about 6 or 7 months, that is probably worth a few $1000s in interest, and I hope the dealer doesn't declare bankrupcy.

I dunno, sounds like cognitive dissonance to me. They taught me that in MBA school.

Maybe GG can make you a sweet deal on a 2016 CTS, and you can pocket the difference out of that $80K if you can pry it out of the hands of the dealer before he goes bust.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

@driver100 said:

I think your story is actually more interesting. Might be worth writing to The Fixer or other Consumer Advocates. I am thinking their could be a business here, filing Lemon Law cases for people.

Are you serious about there being the need for a business to do that?

It already exists, they are called lawyers.

jmonroe

Lawyers charge a lot for filling in paperwork and threatening court action. Not sure the rate these days, $500 or more an hour. But, just a person who will file all the red tape for a set fee....that is my idea. Visit my new company, Lemon & Lemon.....never leave you with a sour taste.

Lemon law lawyers don't charge $500 an hour. If they did they wouldn't exist.

Your new company has a good slogan but to get the word out that will take a lot of advertising and you will have to charge $500 an hour. So, your gone before your first case.

Stay in retirement or get back to selling old books.

jmonroe

fintail

I haven't memorized the option menu for the W213, but if it is like past cars, all of the advanced nannies are probably bundled into the "driver's assist" or "intelligent drive" package. As Canada and the US now package options differently (why???), I am not sure how it is in Canada, but I think it comes with P3 in the US.

E400 sedan isn't even listed on the MBUSA site now, if it matters - just E43 for a 6cyl. But Canada lists an E400, for now anyway.

driver100 said:

I am going to try and find out. First I am going to see how much that auto-braking system is...I think it is part of the package with auto lane change which I don't think I could trust......though down here it may be a necessity.

stickguy

I remember the "debate" here when GG got his current lemon (replacing the last lemon). I know he was amazed by how nice this one was, but there was a faction that said take it to the nearest XYZ dealer of you choice and trade it in before something bad happened.

This outcome was the danger to picking the "keep this one until it acts up" plan.

andres3

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

All good points, but, I am sure the 2018s won't be out until at least October and how could I get buy until then? If they give me another 4% off there won't be enough profit in the car for them. It might be nice if they gave me the auto braking system package at cost for my trouble.

Because I wanted to buy from that dealer, and I used their price for the insurance company, they have had my $80k for about 6 or 7 months, that is probably worth a few $1000s in interest, and I hope the dealer doesn't declare bankrupcy.

I dunno, sounds like cognitive dissonance to me. They taught me that in MBA school.

Maybe GG can make you a sweet deal on a 2016 CTS, and you can pocket the difference out of that $80K if you can pry it out of the hands of the dealer before he goes bust.

I agree, someone is very happy with their Mercedes and willing to tolerate more than most people would tolerate.

Ouch on prepaying for this car in full! However, the fact that Mercedes has earned enough goodwill from a customer that they can overlook some of these issues says a lot too.

ab348

stickguy said:

I remember the "debate" here when GG got his current lemon (replacing the last lemon). I know he was amazed by how nice this one was, but there was a faction that said take it to the nearest XYZ dealer of you choice and trade it in before something bad happened.

This outcome was the danger to picking the "keep this one until it acts up" plan.

Yes, many of us told him. I seem to recall it went something like this...

https://youtu.be/rR_5h8CzRcI?t=3m12s

imidazol97

jmonroe said:

This Chick-fil-A is run so efficiently I can't believe it. The kids they have working there actually seem to enjoy what they are doing, not just putting in their time.

That's the way things are supposed to go. If there is a problem with the food, you're likely to see a refund or a manager over to give courtesy cards for future meals. My wife had picked out the carrots and celery from the chicken soup on Tuesday, laying them out on the soup bowl cover. The dining room "ambassador" asked her if there was something wrong with the soup. Wife explained it had too much of that crap in it.

The kitchen manager showed up a couple minutes later. Said that was far more carrot/celery than she'd seen in a bowl of soup. Shouldn't have been scooped out that way. Offered replacement, etc.. Wife just said "fix it." It's a new store, only a few weeks old, and just getting it wings in the air. They cared. Welcome to ChickFilA.

If CFA made Cadillacs, GG would have had a new one at a small cost for usage of this one after 2.5 weeks.

houdini1

I agree that Chick fil A runs a very good operation. I remember when a new one opened in my area, for the first few weeks, they had an experienced crew come in from existing stores to operate the business and to train the new local employees. That location is one of our favorite fast food restaurants. Chick fil A is a private company and if they ever go public I will definitely buy their stock.

abacomike

driver100 said:

carnaught said:

driver, what, is the part they're waiting for coming by bicycle or canoe? In the meantime is your E being kept out in the elements?

I don't know for sure....this is taking a long time, not that it matters as it would probably be kept outside at the dealers as well. I am wondering if I should ask them if I can order a fresh one, maybe add that auto braking feature which all cars seem to have these days.

My guess is it didn't pass a government test and they probably had to redesign something, I can ask my rep but my guess is they wouldn't be too specific.

I am really thinking of ordering a fresh one since I won't need it until April!

Driver, "asking" them if you could order a new, fresh E400 with the Driver Assistance Package is the wrong approach, IMHO. Like Nike's logo includes, "...JUST DO IT!" That's my advice to you. Immediately contact your dealer up in Canada and INFORM them that you have changed your mind and have decided to order your new car with the Driver's Assistance Package because you want the ability to have the auto-braking feature when you are in cruise control since you drive to and from Florida once each year. To approach this issue any other way is like crawling on your knees and begging them to get you a car the way you "really" want it is dealing from weakness, not strength. You gave them a deposit. Tell them (don't ask them) to apply it to a new car. The longer you wait, the longer it will take to get the replacement car built and delivered to you. It is also possible that a car exactly the way you want it already exists either in production or on the water already.

The auto-braking function in the Driver's Assistance Package will apply the brakes on your car when it is in cruise control and you are approaching another car too quickly. Radar is used to "match" the speed of the car in front of you. You have the ability to adjust the distance tolerances between your car and the car in front of you. You can set it for 3 car lengths, 4 car lengths or 5 car lengths.

As for collision mitigation, that comes standard on the Mercedes E Class - which means brakes will be applied when a collision is imminent.

My experiences with the Driver's Assistance Package on my E400 (2014) were outstanding. I preferred the auto-braking feature when in cruise control. On my trip up and back to Ponte Vedra when I had the E400 (also have it on the BMW now) is that cars will frequently sneak into your lane so as to pass a car in front of them. What happens is that the car automatically matches the speed of the car coming into your lane by braking and decelerating, if necessary. Pedestrians crossing in front or behind your car are picked up by the sensors and the car will auto-apply brakes to avoid hitting the pedestrian - especially the pedestrians walking behind your car. I park in a parking lot in front of my building. The pedestrian warning and auto-braking feature saved me already a few weeks ago from hitting a guy who was walking very close to the cars. My car braked quickly and avoided hitting the guy who appeared out of nowhere from my left.

But, in summary, be proactive and stand your ground when you want something done, driver, when dealing with a car dealership. They and/or Mercedes did not "deliver" your new car in the timeframe agreed to due to problems associated with meeting Canadian standards. For that reason, you demand a new car be acquired whichi would include the options you want, PERIOD!!!

houdini1

Speaking of private companies, I learned something yesterday. Many of our National Parks always seem to be underfunded, and with no money to make repairs, renovations, etc.

What I learned is that a few of them are now being run by private companies. These few get by on about half the money that the government run parks get, and they are always clean, updated, in good repair, and actually make a profit.

What a great way to reduce the size of the gov., stimulate private enterprise, save tax dollars AND keep our National Parks in good shape. To keep this car related, I hope this idea spreads so fast that a Mustang GT couldn't keep pace. There has to be a lot of other areas where this would be beneficial.

fintail

I am pretty sure the franchisee of my local CFA bribed the city to get away with their ridiculously small parking lot/drive thru area, which almost always has a line out on to a major street, blocking traffic. When it first opened, they paid cops to keep traffic moving, but today there are still lines, and no traffic control. Public subsidization of private profit.

A few decent things on the menu though, esp in this area where choice isn't as varied as places to the south and east (maybe also why people are healthier here ) . Some awful/offal politics in the past, but not bad food. Now only if we could get Cracker Barrel and Steak 'n Shake out here.

abacomike

driver100 said:

carnaught said:

driver, what, is the part they're waiting for coming by bicycle or canoe? In the meantime is your E being kept out in the elements?

I don't know for sure....this is taking a long time, not that it matters as it would probably be kept outside at the dealers as well. I am wondering if I should ask them if I can order a fresh one, maybe add that auto braking feature which all cars seem to have these days.

My guess is it didn't pass a government test and they probably had to redesign something, I can ask my rep but my guess is they wouldn't be too specific.

I am really thinking of ordering a fresh one since I won't need it until April!

Driver, if you want the Driver Assistance Package, just do it - don't deal from weakness - like asking them if you could order one with that package. Tell them that Mercedes and the dealership did not deliver, as promised, a new E400 to you in a reasonable timeframe. TELL THEM, don't ask them, that you have decided to order a new car with the packages you want since your car has not been delivered. Deal from strength, not weakness. Tell them to apply the deposit you gave them to the new car. A car just like you want it might already exist in production or in the parking lot in Germany awaiting transport, or it might even be in transit on a ship. It might even exist at the port of entry.

I had the Driver's Assistance Package on my 2014 E400 (and have it on my new BMW 740i) and it is a terrific option. You can set the distance between your car and the car in front of you by 3, or 4, or 5 car lengths. It also uses sensors and radar to slow you down to match the speed of the car in front of you. It does the same thing if a car is moving from the right lane into your left lane - it will brake your car sufficiently to allow the distance you set to be acquired.

But, demand that a new car be either ordered or located for you - don't "ask" if it can be done - that sets you up for failure in attaining what you set out to accomplish. Just my honest opinion, driver - it's the way I deal with dealerships and manufacturers - and I've been very successful at doing what I do!

ab348

houdini1 said:

Speaking of private companies, I learned something yesterday. Many of our National Parks always seem to be underfunded, and with no money to make repairs, renovations, etc.

What I learned is that a few of them are now being run by private companies. These few get by on about half the money that the government run parks get, and they are always clean, updated, in good repair, and actually make a profit.

What a great way to reduce the size of the gov., stimulate private enterprise, save tax dollars AND keep our National Parks in good shape. To keep this car related, I hope this idea spreads so fast that a Mustang GT couldn't keep pace. There has to be a lot of other areas where this would be beneficial.

Up here in Canada you would be branded as a dangerous radical loonie and probably shamed to leave the country if you were a public figure. The public sector unions here have a stranglehold on delivering gov services, and much of the population supports them. I know from my 32 years in government here that efficiency and customer service is not their strong suit.

ab348

abacomike said:

Driver, if you want the Driver Assistance Package, just do it - don't deal from weakness - like asking them if you could order one with that package. Tell them that Mercedes and the dealership did not deliver, as promised, a new E400 to you in a reasonable timeframe. TELL THEM, don't ask them, that you have decided to order a new car with the packages you want since your car has not been delivered. Deal from strength, not weakness. Tell them to apply the deposit you gave them to the new car. A car just like you want it might already exist in production or in the parking lot in Germany awaiting transport, or it might even be in transit on a ship. It might even exist at the port of entry.

I had the Driver's Assistance Package on my 2014 E400 (and have it on my new BMW 740i) and it is a terrific option. You can set the distance between your car and the car in front of you by 3, or 4, or 5 car lengths. It also uses sensors and radar to slow you down to match the speed of the car in front of you. It does the same thing if a car is moving from the right lane into your left lane - it will brake your car sufficiently to allow the distance you set to be acquired.

But, demand that a new car be either ordered or located for you - don't "ask" if it can be done - that sets you up for failure in attaining what you set out to accomplish. Just my honest opinion, driver - it's the way I deal with dealerships and manufacturers - and I've been very successful at doing what I do!

You left out the part where Driver tells them that he wants the package for free.

abacomike

Speaking of Chick-Fil-A (as you all know, my favorite fast-food restaurant on the face of the earth), there is no doubt that each franchise owner is bound by contract to keep the restaurant efficient, clean and consumer friendly. I eat at three different ones (Delray Beach, Boca Raton and Coral Springs) and each is run identically. The food tastes the same no matter where I dine. That's the way McDonald's used to be - a cheeseburger with fries tasted the same no matter where in the country you ate it. Now, there are subtle differences from one Mac to another.

But Chick-Fil-A restaurants prepare the food identically to any other. I love their chicken and their fries. I used to be a hamburger freak - now I am solely a "chicken" freak - or some other kind of freak like a new car freak. But a freak, just the same!!!

suydam

Having private companies run public parks is actually a terrible idea. I could go on for hours, but I believe such a discussion has no place in this discussion board.

abacomike

ab348 said:

abacomike said:

Driver, if you want the Driver Assistance Package, just do it - don't deal from weakness - like asking them if you could order one with that package. Tell them that Mercedes and the dealership did not deliver, as promised, a new E400 to you in a reasonable timeframe. TELL THEM, don't ask them, that you have decided to order a new car with the packages you want since your car has not been delivered. Deal from strength, not weakness. Tell them to apply the deposit you gave them to the new car. A car just like you want it might already exist in production or in the parking lot in Germany awaiting transport, or it might even be in transit on a ship. It might even exist at the port of entry.

I had the Driver's Assistance Package on my 2014 E400 (and have it on my new BMW 740i) and it is a terrific option. You can set the distance between your car and the car in front of you by 3, or 4, or 5 car lengths. It also uses sensors and radar to slow you down to match the speed of the car in front of you. It does the same thing if a car is moving from the right lane into your left lane - it will brake your car sufficiently to allow the distance you set to be acquired.

But, demand that a new car be either ordered or located for you - don't "ask" if it can be done - that sets you up for failure in attaining what you set out to accomplish. Just my honest opinion, driver - it's the way I deal with dealerships and manufacturers - and I've been very successful at doing what I do!

You left out the part where Driver tells them that he wants the package for free.

Well, I think that's taking it beyond where I would go with this issue. But driver should have exactly what he wants after waiting all this time. Who knows what they have done to his car. Demand, don't be sheepish, is my motto!!!

graphicguy

fintail said:

I wonder what the real holdup is with that E400. I know my local dealer has several E400 coupes in stock, along with E43.

Driver...I saw E400 coupes at the Mercedes dealer I was at yesterday. They also had a very nice '16 E350 (http://www.mbcincy.com/inventory/new-2016-mercedes-benz-e-class-e350-4matic-sport-sedan-4matic-sedan-wddhf8jb2gb282114) that I wished I would have bought instead of the CTS. Pics don't do it justice. Just a very nice car. Dealer said "my deal" would be $11,000 off MSRP. Quite a bit over my budget.

As an aside, I may have a deal on a car. Will know more tomorrow.

jmonroe

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

carnaught said:

driver, what, is the part they're waiting for coming by bicycle or canoe? In the meantime is your E being kept out in the elements?

I don't know for sure....this is taking a long time, not that it matters as it would probably be kept outside at the dealers as well. I am wondering if I should ask them if I can order a fresh one, maybe add that auto braking feature which all cars seem to have these days.

My guess is it didn't pass a government test and they probably had to redesign something, I can ask my rep but my guess is they wouldn't be too specific.

I am really thinking of ordering a fresh one since I won't need it until April!

Driver, if you want the Driver Assistance Package, just do it - don't deal from weakness - like asking them if you could order one with that package. Tell them that Mercedes and the dealership did not deliver, as promised, a new E400 to you in a reasonable timeframe. TELL THEM, don't ask them, that you have decided to order a new car with the packages you want since your car has not been delivered. Deal from strength, not weakness. Tell them to apply the deposit you gave them to the new car. A car just like you want it might already exist in production or in the parking lot in Germany awaiting transport, or it might even be in transit on a ship. It might even exist at the port of entry.

I had the Driver's Assistance Package on my 2014 E400 (and have it on my new BMW 740i) and it is a terrific option. You can set the distance between your car and the car in front of you by 3, or 4, or 5 car lengths. It also uses sensors and radar to slow you down to match the speed of the car in front of you. It does the same thing if a car is moving from the right lane into your left lane - it will brake your car sufficiently to allow the distance you set to be acquired.

But, demand that a new car be either ordered or located for you - don't "ask" if it can be done - that sets you up for failure in attaining what you set out to accomplish. Just my honest opinion, driver - it's the way I deal with dealerships and manufacturers - and I've been very successful at doing what I do!

If @driver100 did not get what you described I am pretty surprised, maybe even shocked, that an 80 grand car of whatever make does not have that. Even my dinky '15 Genesis has it.

Just what is it that you get with German cars, other than a badge?

jmonroe

fintail

11K off is not enough on a leftover 16. I got an initial offer of that much off (admittedly, on a slightly higher MSRP) back in June, and I didn't have to fight hard for an even better final deal. I'd want another 5K off, if anything.

I am guessing the potential new car isn't a CTS-V

graphicguy said:

Driver...I saw E400 coupes at the Mercedes dealer I was at yesterday. They also had a very nice '16 E350 (http://www.mbcincy.com/inventory/new-2016-mercedes-benz-e-class-e350-4matic-sport-sedan-4matic-sedan-wddhf8jb2gb282114) that I wished I would have bought instead of the CTS. Pics don't do it justice. Just a very nice car. Dealer said "my deal" would be $11,000 off MSRP. Quite a bit over my budget.

As an aside, I may have a deal on a car. Will know more tomorrow.

jmonroe

abacomike said:

Speaking of Chick-Fil-A (as you all know, my favorite fast-food restaurant on the face of the earth), there is no doubt that each franchise owner is bound by contract to keep the restaurant efficient, clean and consumer friendly. I eat at three different ones (Delray Beach, Boca Raton and Coral Springs) and each is run identically. The food tastes the same no matter where I dine. That's the way McDonald's used to be - a cheeseburger with fries tasted the same no matter where in the country you ate it. Now, there are subtle differences from one Mac to another.

But Chick-Fil-A restaurants prepare the food identically to any other. I love their chicken and their fries. I used to be a hamburger freak - now I am solely a "chicken" freak - or some other kind of freak like a new car freak. But a freak, just the same!!!

OK "Chicken Freak", we'll remember that.

jmonroe

fintail

You get the German options ethos - everything is optional. I've read old jokes that in the past people would say even the fluids in newly delivered cars were extra-cost options.

You get a badge, styling that usually ages very well, and usually also receive driving dynamics and tactile feel that can be hard to beat.

jmonroe said:

If @driver100 did not get what you described I am pretty surprised, maybe even shocked, that an 80 grand car of whatever make does not have that. Even my dinky '15 Genesis has it.

Just what is it that you get with German cars, other than a badge?

jmonroe

abacomike

jmonroe said:

driver, what, is the part they're waiting for coming by bicycle or canoe? In the meantime is your E being kept out in the elements?

I don't know for sure....this is taking a long time, not that it matters as it would probably be kept outside at the dealers as well. I am wondering if I should ask them if I can order a fresh one, maybe add that auto braking feature which all cars seem to have these days. My guess is it didn't pass a government test and they probably had to redesign something, I can ask my rep but my guess is they wouldn't be too specific. I am really thinking of ordering a fresh one since I won't need it until April!

Driver, if you want the Driver Assistance Package, just do it - don't deal from weakness - like asking them if you could order one with that package. Tell them that Mercedes and the dealership did not deliver, as promised, a new E400 to you in a reasonable timeframe. TELL THEM, don't ask them, that you have decided to order a new car with the packages you want since your car has not been delivered. Deal from strength, not weakness. Tell them to apply the deposit you gave them to the new car. A car just like you want it might already exist in production or in the parking lot in Germany awaiting transport, or it might even be in transit on a ship. It might even exist at the port of entry. I had the Driver's Assistance Package on my 2014 E400 (and have it on my new BMW 740i) and it is a terrific option. You can set the distance between your car and the car in front of you by 3, or 4, or 5 car lengths. It also uses sensors and radar to slow you down to match the speed of the car in front of you. It does the same thing if a car is moving from the right lane into your left lane - it will brake your car sufficiently to allow the distance you set to be acquired. But, demand that a new car be either ordered or located for you - don't "ask" if it can be done - that sets you up for failure in attaining what you set out to accomplish. Just my honest opinion, driver - it's the way I deal with dealerships and manufacturers - and I've been very successful at doing what I do!

If @driver100 did not get what you described I am pretty surprised, maybe even shocked, that an 80 grand car of whatever make does not have that. Even my dinky '15 Genesis has it. Just what is it that you get with German cars, other than a badge? jmonroe

German cars don't just "tackle" the road when you drive them, they "CONQUER" the road - that's what they do best!!! 

abacomike

"60 Minutes" tonight has a great interview with a defector from North Korea who discusses the military threat that country poses.  Definitely worth a look see - or record it for later viewing.

driver100

The chicken chain reports that it receives more than 20,000 inquiries from franchisee candidates every year. Of those candidates, Chick-fil-A selects just 75 to 80 new franchisees annually,

It is one of the cheapest franchises to manage.....but not own. Just $10000 if accepted compared to $750,000 for McDs, but you never own it and can't pass it on or sell it. It always belongs to the company.

ab348

jmonroe said:

Just what is it that you get with German cars, other than a badge?

Well, they're built by gnomes in the Black Forest. Can't say that about a Hyundai.

jmonroe

fintail said:

You get the German options ethos - everything is optional. I've read old jokes that in the past people would say even the fluids in newly delivered cars were extra-cost options.

You get a badge, styling that usually ages very well, and usually also receive driving dynamics and tactile feel that can be hard to beat.

jmonroe said:

If @driver100 did not get what you described I am pretty surprised, maybe even shocked, that an 80 grand car of whatever make does not have that. Even my dinky '15 Genesis has it.

Just what is it that you get with German cars, other than a badge?

jmonroe

Do you really expect me to believe you only get that with German cars. I'm surprised you didn't throw in the "it holds it's value longer". That may be true but aren't you paying up front for that?

All of this driving dynamics is lost on me. I never felt that I had to take corners quickly and have the car hold the road like that. I also never felt that it took a lot of skill to mash down on an accelerator peddle that someone else designed for you. I'm more of the type that wanted to design the accelerator peddle and what was behind it.

When I was a kid I always felt better throwing a ball (football or baseball) better than the other kids and especially the kids that ran their father's car's on Friday night to impress the girls how fast it was in the quarter mile.

While they were doing that, I was in the back of my fathers station wagon.

Some thing are more fun than others.

jmonroe

driver100

fintail said:

I haven't memorized the option menu for the W213, but if it is like past cars, all of the advanced nannies are probably bundled into the "driver's assist" or "intelligent drive" package. As Canada and the US now package options differently (why???), I am not sure how it is in Canada, but I think it comes with P3 in the US.

E400 sedan isn't even listed on the MBUSA site now, if it matters - just E43 for a 6cyl. But Canada lists an E400, for now anyway.

driver100 said:

I am going to try and find out. First I am going to see how much that auto-braking system is...I think it is part of the package with auto lane change which I don't think I could trust......though down here it may be a necessity.

In the US you can get a 4 cyl E300 or a 6 cyl E43 which costs about $20k more than an E400 would cost.

In Canada they offer the E300 and E43, as well as the 6 cyl E400. Just a guess but I think they didn't offer the E400 in the U.S. this year because it is a new model and they probably couldn't build enough - my guess is it will be available in 2018.

I think you are right about those packages and I believe it is $3000 for driver assist or intelligent drive.

driver100

Mike, I will keep in mind what you have said about demanding but that is not the Canadian way. I think I can do better by reasoning with them, and I want to keep the relationship on a friendly basis. The salesman have been good to me....coming to the house to set up Homelink, giving me loaner cars, setting me up with a rental car at an incredible price - better than the insurance company.

First I need to find out how much the option is....I just really want the braking feature, but I am sure I will have to take more than that.

I like the idea of ordering a fresher car, then it won't sit in the freezing cold for 6 months and it will have this part installed at the factory. There may be problems with paperwork etc.....I need to see what they say first.

If I want it and have a problem I will sic you on them

driver100

graphicguy said:

fintail said:

I wonder what the real holdup is with that E400. I know my local dealer has several E400 coupes in stock, along with E43.

Driver...I saw E400 coupes at the Mercedes dealer I was at yesterday. They also had a very nice '16 E350 (http://www.mbcincy.com/inventory/new-2016-mercedes-benz-e-class-e350-4matic-sport-sedan-4matic-sedan-wddhf8jb2gb282114) that I wished I would have bought instead of the CTS. Pics don't do it justice. Just a very nice car. Dealer said "my deal" would be $11,000 off MSRP. Quite a bit over my budget.

As an aside, I may have a deal on a car. Will know more tomorrow.

I think the E400 coupe is still modeled on last years E400. The new E300 and E400 (Canada) and the new E43 4 door cars are very differnt cars than last years model.

That 2016 E350 would make a very nice car, but it would have to be at a lower price. It is about the same as my 2015 E400 and that is a fine car.

Come on, give us a hint.....so I can sleep tonight. I think it starts with an "A".

imidazol97

driver100 said:

I like the idea of ordering a fresher car, then it won't sit in the freezing cold for 6 months and it will have this part installed at the factory. There may be problems with paperwork etc.....I need to see what they say first.

Is there anything that's unique to your vehicle making it less desirable for them to sell to someone else? I.e., my second car was a Mustang Grande with a V8 and manual 3 speed AND air conditioning.

carnaught

@driver100, I think your best argument for ordering a different E400 is that the car has been out in the elements for "x" number of months in order to get gov. certification to license and title it, all due to the delay from the factory for the part. One would think that would have been a given on a car destined for the Canadian market.

driver100

jmonroe said:

fintail said:

You get the German options ethos - everything is optional. I've read old jokes that in the past people would say even the fluids in newly delivered cars were extra-cost options.

You get a badge, styling that usually ages very well, and usually also receive driving dynamics and tactile feel that can be hard to beat.

jmonroe said:

If @driver100 did not get what you described I am pretty surprised, maybe even shocked, that an 80 grand car of whatever make does not have that. Even my dinky '15 Genesis has it.

Just what is it that you get with German cars, other than a badge?

jmonroe

Do you really expect me to believe you only get that with German cars. I'm surprised you didn't throw in the "it holds it's value longer". That may be true but aren't you paying up front for that?

All of this driving dynamics is lost on me. I never felt that I had to take corners quickly and have the car hold the road like that. I also never felt that it took a lot of skill to mash down on an accelerator peddle that someone else designed for you. I'm more of the type that wanted to design the accelerator peddle and what was behind it.

When I was a kid I always felt better throwing a ball (football or baseball) better than the other kids and especially the kids that ran their father's car's on Friday night to impress the girls how fast it was in the quarter mile.

While they were doing that, I was in the back of my fathers station wagon.

Some thing are more fun than others.

jmonroe

You're right JM, if it means nothing to you then it is a waste of money buying a fine automobile if it doesn't matter to you.
The Genesis is a fine car with a lot of toys on it for the money, but, it won't be quite the same. Some people appreciate fine wine, a good cigar, premium beer, steak instead of hamburger and a true German luxury car - compared to the wannabe car.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

I like the idea of ordering a fresher car, then it won't sit in the freezing cold for 6 months and it will have this part installed at the factory. There may be problems with paperwork etc.....I need to see what they say first.

Is there anything that's unique to your vehicle making it less desirable for them to sell to someone else? I.e., my second car was a Mustang Grande with a V8 and manual 3 speed AND air conditioning.

No, I am sure it is a car they would love to put in the showroom, it would sell instantly. It is white, pano roof, beige interior. I think it would be an advantage for them, they could sell it immediately then sell me mine in April when I get there. That is a good point though, it would be a win-win for both of us.

driver100

carnaught said:

@driver100, I think your best argument for ordering a different E400 is that the car has been out in the elements for "x" number of months in order to get gov. certification to license and title it, all due to the delay from the factory for the part. One would think that would have been a given on a car destined for the Canadian market.

Good point, but remember carnaught, it would probably have sat in slightly better conditions but still in the elements here if I don't pick it up until April.
If it arrived in December we would have driven it down. So, in a way they are responsible, at least Mercedes is for the delay.
I think my bargaining chip is what imid alluded to, it is to their advantage and mine, to sell this one asap and hopefully mine would arrive by April 2nd. Doubt if there is one on the way, when we went to the Mercedes factory in Stutgart, they said every car built, has been ordered....even if it is for a dealer. They never make a car that hasn't been ordered...including armored vehicles that are made there as well.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

No, I am sure it is a car they would love to put in the showroom, it would sell instantly. It is white, pano roof, beige interior. I think it would be an advantage for them, they could sell it immediately then sell me mine in April when I get there. That is a good point though, it would be a win-win for both of us.

There's your talking point to begin the discussion.

I recall you were going to fly home at Christmas and garage it after the dealer delivered it?

abacomike

driver100 said:

Mike, I will keep in mind what you have said about demanding but that is not the Canadian way. I think I can do better by reasoning with them, and I want to keep the relationship on a friendly basis. The salesman have been good to me....coming to the house to set up Homelink, giving me loaner cars, setting me up with a rental car at an incredible price - better than the insurance company. First I need to find out how much the option is....I just really want the braking feature, but I am sure I will have to take more than that. I like the idea of ordering a fresher car, then it won't sit in the freezing cold for 6 months and it will have this part installed at the factory. There may be problems with paperwork etc.....I need to see what they say first. If I want it and have a problem I will sic you on them

Driver, there are more features in the Driver's Assistance option, but those can be turned off - like adaptive Blind Spot Monitors and Adaptive Lane Tracking.  That's what I like about these German cars - you can manually turn on and turn off each feature.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

No, I am sure it is a car they would love to put in the showroom, it would sell instantly. It is white, pano roof, beige interior. I think it would be an advantage for them, they could sell it immediately then sell me mine in April when I get there. That is a good point though, it would be a win-win for both of us.

There's your talking point to begin the discussion.

I recall you were going to fly home at Christmas and garage it after the dealer delivered it?

We were going to fly back in December, and drive it to Florida. Things changed when it was delayed, and we found we can get by nicely with one car in Florida, especially when we traded the Passat for the C250.

But yeh, the best way to try and change this is to show it will be best for both of us.

driver100

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

Mike, I will keep in mind what you have said about demanding but that is not the Canadian way. I think I can do better by reasoning with them, and I want to keep the relationship on a friendly basis. The salesman have been good to me....coming to the house to set up Homelink, giving me loaner cars, setting me up with a rental car at an incredible price - better than the insurance company.

First I need to find out how much the option is....I just really want the braking feature, but I am sure I will have to take more than that.

I like the idea of ordering a fresher car, then it won't sit in the freezing cold for 6 months and it will have this part installed at the factory. There may be problems with paperwork etc.....I need to see what they say first.

If I want it and have a problem I will sic you on them

Driver, there are more features in the Driver's Assistance option, but those can be turned off - like adaptive Blind Spot Monitors and Adaptive Lane Tracking.  That's what I like about these German cars - you can manually turn on and turn off each feature.

Good info Mike. I really don't like the automatic lane change idea......I wonder if the car wedges itself between two cars like the Florida drivers do?

btw...you must be immune to the drivers here Mike, I have had so many people tell me the driving here is the worst they see anywhere. I played tennis today with a native Floridian - not too many of those - and he said drivers were always slow and careful, but, now they have become extra aggressive in Florida. I have heard a lot of people say that.

I saw a new 740i today, was silver and had a spoiler....that is one beautiful looking car. I like that design way more than an MB S series. Somehow it doesn't look huge, maybe the large wheels help. Looked very unique and sleek.

fintail

Yes, I think the coupe update comes for MY 18. Same engine though. I can't believe the holdup is a federalization issue, as the platform is already sold here, and the engine has been sold here for a little whole. I'd be a bit peeved too, but I've never personally ordered a car, always having chosen off the lot, most of the time with end of year leftovers.

Still weird to me how Canada and US have different offerings. E300 is a new one for the US market, but there was a W212 E300 in Canada. E400 replaced the E350 in Canada, where in the US, both were offered. Doesn't seem very efficient.

driver100 said:

In the US you can get a 4 cyl E300 or a 6 cyl E43 which costs about $20k more than an E400 would cost.

In Canada they offer the E300 and E43, as well as the 6 cyl E400. Just a guess but I think they didn't offer the E400 in the U.S. this year because it is a new model and they probably couldn't build enough - my guess is it will be available in 2018.

I think you are right about those packages and I believe it is $3000 for driver assist or intelligent drive.

jmonroe

ab348 said:

jmonroe said:

Just what is it that you get with German cars, other than a badge?

Well, they're built by gnomes in the Black Forest. Can't say that about a Hyundai.

OK, so you got me with that one. Anything else. :@

jmonroe

abacomike

driver100 said:

@driver100, I think your best argument for ordering a different E400 is that the car has been out in the elements for "x" number of months in order to get gov. certification to license and title it, all due to the delay from the factory for the part. One would think that would have been a given on a car destined for the Canadian market.

Good point, but remember carnaught, it would probably have sat in slightly better conditions but still in the elements here if I don't pick it up until April. If it arrived in December we would have driven it down. So, in a way they are responsible, at least Mercedes is for the delay. I think my bargaining chip is what imid alluded to, it is to their advantage and mine, to sell this one asap and hopefully mine would arrive by April 2nd. Doubt if there is one on the way, when we went to the Mercedes factory in Stutgart, they said every car built, has been ordered....even if it is for a dealer. They never make a car that hasn't been ordered...including armored vehicles that are made there as well.

It takes about 9 weeks from the time you order a car until it arrives at the dealer.  Hopefully, your dealer can put a change order in on a car already ordered but not built.  That cuts the time by 2-3 weeks.

abacomike

One of the "negatives" of my new HDTV is that it is so crystal clear and sharp, I was able to see Leslie Stahl's (60 Minutes reporter) imperfect complexion and the tiniest wrinkles on face and around her eyes.  Scott Pelly's face isn't so perfect either!  

ab348

Our problem up here is more with pedestrians (though there are a lot of really bad drivers too). On Friday my Caddy dealer's shuttle driver and I had an entertaining discussion about our pedestrians here in Halifax. He has some issues with them and I can see why. We had one woman step in front of his vehicle mid-block to jaywalk across the street. Then he went to make a left a few moments later and found her again in the middle of that street strolling along. He gave a friendly beep of the horn to get her to move over and she gave him the finger. Them we had an old fellow doddering along across the parking lot without looking where he was going and he stepped right in front of the vehicle we were in. Only when my driver slammed on the brakes did he look up.

driver100

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

carnaught said:

@driver100, I think your best argument for ordering a different E400 is that the car has been out in the elements for "x" number of months in order to get gov. certification to license and title it, all due to the delay from the factory for the part. One would think that would have been a given on a car destined for the Canadian market.

Good point, but remember carnaught, it would probably have sat in slightly better conditions but still in the elements here if I don't pick it up until April.
If it arrived in December we would have driven it down. So, in a way they are responsible, at least Mercedes is for the delay.
I think my bargaining chip is what imid alluded to, it is to their advantage and mine, to sell this one asap and hopefully mine would arrive by April 2nd. Doubt if there is one on the way, when we went to the Mercedes factory in Stutgart, they said every car built, has been ordered....even if it is for a dealer. They never make a car that hasn't been ordered...including armored vehicles that are made there as well.

It takes about 9 weeks from the time you order a car until it arrives at the dealer.  Hopefully, your dealer can put a change order in on a car already ordered but not built.  That cuts the time by 2-3 weeks.

Thanks....could be very useful to know.

jmonroe

ab348 said:

Our problem up here is more with pedestrians (though there are a lot of really bad drivers too). On Friday my Caddy dealer's shuttle driver and I had an entertaining discussion about our pedestrians here in Halifax. He has some issues with them and I can see why. We had one woman step in front of his vehicle mid-block to jaywalk across the street. Then he went to make a left a few moments later and found her again in the middle of that street strolling along. He gave a friendly beep of the horn to get her to move over and she gave him the finger. Them we had an old fellow doddering along across the parking lot without looking where he was going and he stepped right in front of the vehicle we were in. Only when my driver slammed on the brakes did he look up.

I don't understand this walking along oblivious to car traffic. The way some people act you'd think they just got up off their couch and were walking across their living room; don't look left or right once.

It sounds like you Canadians are more polite than the drivers in my area. Almost every day, on the local news, I hear about some older person that was run over. It's a strange way to control the senior citizen population and it must hurt like hell for an instant.

jmonroe

driver100

ab348 said:

. Them we had an old fellow doddering along across the parking lot without looking where he was going and he stepped right in front of the vehicle we were in. Only when my driver slammed on the brakes did he look up.

You need those automatic self reacting brakes, especially in Dartmouth N.S.!